The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:03 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:45 pm God fucking damn it Epi the evidence was all there and you just fucking ignored it. This could have been an easy win but you refused to think for a second. Grrrrrrr


Anyway everyone bow down to my Jaydar

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:49 pm I nailed both remaining mafia before I died, and Tony had proof LC was lying, but no Epi's ego is too big to reevaluate or consider a dead townie's perspective.

I feel bad for Tony having seen all this through neighbor chat too.

For someone so acutely concerned with how words may cause offense or negatively influence someone's mental state, you sure don't seem to mind dishing out some derogation when it suits you.

Hypocrisy blah blah etc. For an educator you sure can display an astonishing lack of critical thinking.

The mechanical bullshit didn't even need to happen. This isn't Tony's fault. All the evidence was in the thread already.

I nailed both remaining mafia before I died, and Tony had proof LC was lying, but no Epi's ego is too big to reevaluate or consider a dead townie's perspective.

I feel bad for Tony having seen all this through neighbor chat too.

God fucking damn it Epi the evidence was all there and you just fucking ignored it. This could have been an easy win but you refused to think for a second. Grrrrrrr


Anyway everyone bow down to my Jaydar

posting a minute before night deadline?

Duskfall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:55 pm @nutella what's your read on Tony and long con again?

Fluctuating. When I made that string of posts last night I really thought I had caught LC, but his response still has a tone that I am tempted to believe. I don't know. I still lean town on Tony but he's also in the poe.

I think I currently feel worse about Epi than either of them, oddly enough.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:38 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:34 pm

Duskfall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:04 pm @nutella do you agree the role cop sender has to be town if you are town?

Not totally sure, but probably? Idk why a mafia would send a townie another townie to remove from the poe

Exactly so he's just town from your perspective and you should never ever lynch?

I guess? I don't think I'm comfortable saying that in a 100% black and white way

Duskfall wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:04 pm @nutella do you agree the role cop sender has to be town if you are town?

Not totally sure, but probably? Idk why a mafia would send a townie another townie to remove from the poe

I don't follow. All I can say is I'm town.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:49 pm I am considering a dialogue I had yesterday in the spec chat with our friends Ranmilla and Arapocalypse about Mimlo situations -- they suggest it is optimal to engage in no hunting during this period (essentially right now for us in this open night phase) as a means of 1) saving energy for the Limlo hunt with almost all of the same information available, 2) removing one player from the focus of that hunt, and 3) limiting information for the mafia to decide their kill. It's compelling and I am inclined to give it a try here.

I still intend to review the game on my own and determine where I stand on everything. I may not share it though. I am open to dissent there. It's counter to my usual methods, but I am rather fascinated by it as a chance for personal growth and experimentation.

Yeah, I saw some of that conversation (and the events that sparked it ofc). Avoiding influencing the kill for whatever reasons, wifom or not, does make sense, with the one obvious drawback that whoever ends up killed won't get to participate in the discussion afterward. Idk I guess that's part of the point, shutting down a particular voice over others has implications and by discussing now we're creating those implications... ugh. Maybe I should in fact just shut up.

Yeah, I just looked through Epi's iso and I've been giving him credit over a whole load of nothing. He's been skating by for no reason. Absolutely nothing in there is deserving of a spot out of the POE.

Ugh what if he is though.

Epi you haven't done squat since D1. I don't think you're a DS teammate, but you're gonna have to participate at some point or I'll have to reconsider.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:06 am I voted for Mac because I thought he was bad. I think there were four votes on Mac, why not pick someone else as "the baddie who was pushing Mac", because it's definitely not me.

Nah. Tony was reasonable in his hesitance on Mac (I don't remember if his vote ended up there, but it's whatever, and I don't care to reassess Epi and Dusk at this time). You were not. You and Jay pushed back to make Mac being bad the dominant narrative over some very valid counterarguments from both Tony and me.

Lmao yeah. Page 12 is just full of both of them completely shutting down any arguments both Tony and I came up with for Mac being town, which like were actually good points that they shoved away, and then going "But the DS interactions!"

It's really quite transparent now.

Look at how Jay and LC pushed for Mac. First they pushed hard for me while I was a viable miselim. Then once I claimed they both went straight for Mac despite my arguments in his favor, without any of the hesitance I had about him despite the case on him being pretty weak, and completely ignoring Jiwon as an option while I felt she was clearly looking worse. Why? Because they knew Mac would take Jiwon down with him. They could not afford to pass up the opportunity to eliminate two townies in one day and go straight into lylo (which it would have if not for the modkill). Voting for Mac was their path to victory and they didn't put in any more effort than necessary to make it look like a well thought through elimination.

I'll have to look back into Tony and how he dealt with Mac etc but I am quite confident that Jay and LC are guilty here.

Still possible it's Tony. It's definitely two out of those three. I have reason to think LC though.

The mafia are Jay and LC.

I think maybe the move here is no elim and wait til we can vote jay

[VOTE: no elim] aubergine

Assuming 8v3 that is. Idk maybe there is a 3p or something weirder going on.

Goddamn that makes it mylo this is really unfortunate.

Fucking hell

[VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

But he knew that as soon as he put the info in the thread I would be outed one way or another, via him or myself or the rolecop person who presumably chose the name to check. If he was scum he would just keep the info to himself and not risk causing a townie to become confirmed.

I sort of wondered if mac was just a scum rolecop and made up the thing about someone else sending it, but that seems a bit silly (except that rolecop is a common scum role so maybe it's a way to get out of claiming it himself). Still, regardless of where the check came from, I struggle to see the scum motivation in outing me, especially when I have been a common poe suspect/ML bait/in particular a likely eliminatee over Mac himself who is also on the table. I don't know why he'd remove me as an easy mislim in these circumstances if he is scum. Feels like there is only town motivation there. So that's my biggest hangup with Mac being scum. Jiwon is still my top candidate for today.

I did not send it. I have no idea who did or why.

.....In what way was I ever "pushing" for the leetic elimination? My vote wasn't on him for most of the phase, I acknowledged dunya's meta on him and felt for a while like he was more likely town, then when his activity fell off I went back to not feeling great about him and yeah I basically let it happen but I didn't feel strongly about it, I just didn't have any better ideas at the time. My vote was on Jack but I didn't really have a case on him. This probably doesn't sound great as a defense but it's true.

Also, you are working from an outdated archetype of "town nutella." Maybe you need to refresh yourself on my more recent town meta. I've become much more assertive in pushing snap reads rather than default waffling on everything. I still hesitate and reconsider but not nearly as much as I used to. When I have a strong gut read I state it aggressively and pursue it aggressively. Remember my fierce but wrong townread of MR in Covid for example? I may be more prone to wrong tunnels now which isn't great, and yes on that note I do need to seriously consider the possibility I'm wrong about Jay (a couple things were brought up that are already pushing me to do so).

Your point about me pointing out the contradiction thing doesn't even make sense. Why wouldn't I be upfront about that? That's my classic stream-of-consciousness mode.

The DS "what" was quite literally a "what" as in I didn't understand it. It didn't make sense. I'm not vanilla so had absolutely no clue what he was going for.

Not sure how you get your interpretation of my dealing of DS. You can go back and reread my reactions to leetic's claim and stuff, it's all there and all natural, yes I wasn't really expecting the DS flip but I also wasn't really surprised by it especially as it made the vanilla thing make sense and confirmed the concern I had with it.

I am open to reconsidering Jay and certainly have time for it since he's not votable today so I was always going to go for a Jiwon or Mac vote. I'm sort of lost as to what those two players' various claims mean regarding their alignments, however. So I may be wrong about someone else as well? Idk. I'll only have like...9? more posts this phase to hash this stuff out but I promise I won't waste them all on a tunnel.


Finally, I don't know if it's the right move to say this or if I should have waited for the rolecop-target-sender-person to say this, but I am the role that Mac posted. If yall still wanna eliminate me, fine, I'll just pick one of you to neighbor with and yell my stupid reads at for the rest of the game.
(I even sorta hinted my role earlier to dunya if anyone is interested in corroboration)

Epi I'll just wait until you've read all of my posts because I think your questions have mostly already been answered and I'm tired of repeating myself and I'm running out of posts. I only have 10 after this I believe. You should keep track of yours as well. In case you didn't notice, the cap is much lower today. Good luck.

Easy, she was everyone's top townread. Seems like an obvious kill choice in any world. And potentially a frame job on me. Also she was misreading Jay as town, so. Wifom and all that.


I explained the yetl thing earlier btw if you would care to read my posts. While you're at it, check out my sweet case on Jay.

I have no info to dump. I just view this as Jay's scum game, plain and simple. If you don't agree with me, fine. Lynch me if you must but promise he'll be next when you see me flip town. My record for reading Jay is spotless.

I reiterate that this is the strongest reason to suspect Jay, in combination with Jack's grossly DS-compatible history:

Besides, you are the one who broadened the POE pool too much. You concluded your interactive exercise with a 50/50 split, which is not your typical pattern. You are leaving your options open.

I find it hard to put into words beyond that but I simply have a feeling in my gut that Jay is feigning his suspicions and the way he has doubled down on me solidifies that read.



In other news, Mac's info is good to know I guess but does not preclude him or Jiwon from being scum; the uneven aspect of it seems like another balance thing and I feel like it points toward one of them being more likely scum than the other but I'll have to think about it more.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:32 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:06 pm linki: it's not a bullshit read. your slot's interaction with DS is hot garbage and you know this. if you were reviewing that slot from a neutral position you would have it as orange, I am certain. sure there's nothing really conclusive, but to me it fits the exact mold of a teammate pairing, partially because of the lack of material.

I probably put a slot with a bunch of nothing in the POE pool, yes. Again, this is not what you did. You went straight to hot garbage, and at my first incredulous reply you took it to 11 and said I "claimed mafia". That's not "going hard". That's bullshitting.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:06 pmyour read on me is the fake one. You know that I only go hard on you like this as town. In FTL I kept you comfortably in my pocket. You 100% know that I don't treat you like this as scum. You're full of shit.

No two games are the same. I had nowhere to go but to trust you in FTL, where literally my entire faction went to sleep for the whole game. You were the only other person doing anything, and credit to you for taking proper advantage of that environment. This environment is not the same, and the dynamic changes accordingly. You're a quality player with a diverse skillset that does not limit you to treating me in identical ways in every game, particularly when they are consecutive. So that is not going to cut it.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:06 pmBesides, you are the one who broadened the POE pool too much. You concluded your interactive exercise with a 50/50 split, which is not your typical pattern. You are leaving your options open. I have exactly three suspects.

Damn I so wish I could vote for you. But I think Jiwon is pretty likely your partner here so it's ok.

Why is Tony town?

No comment on my strongest point against you I see.

I know when you're struggling to emulate your town behavior. You think you can hide in your analysis but I can tell you are nudging results in the direction you want and you are fabricating the strength of your reasoning for suspecting me. You're pushing to see how far this can go and I see right through it. Sure I'm tunneling and confbiasing and all that, whatever. You've gone past the point where I could reconsider you and instead you doubled down on your bullshit on me which in turn confirmed that I am correct about you.


Tony did some vague hinting that I didn't necessarily follow but knowing him I find that more likely a good sign than not. He's certainly my least clear non-suspect and would be my first fallback if my suspect pool fails.

Also if Jiwon knew she was lovers with Mac on D1 why did she seem pretty eager to eliminate him at one point (and obviously again today but that can be more excused by her awareness that many of us would like to resolve her slot) ....maybe she just figured that leetic was going to be it at that point anyway. Idk. This is weird.

Her reaction to the lover stuff is pretty interesting on a second look. She says it would be a good deal if DS is scum and then goes ahead and hammers. Is that a bus with the tradeoff of taking down a townie too? I personally think it's pretty easy to read that way. Especially since nobody really suspected DS at the time.


After the flip she says "I created the most suspicion against DS" which......isn't really true at all lol. She was more like "what the hell might as well hammer in case DS is scum" without really suspecting him much beforehand (she had like one post with some minor pressure on him tbf). I think she knew exactly what she was doing.

[VOTE: jiwon] aubergine


linki: it's not a bullshit read. your slot's interaction with DS is hot garbage and you know this. if you were reviewing that slot from a neutral position you would have it as orange, I am certain. sure there's nothing really conclusive, but to me it fits the exact mold of a teammate pairing, partially because of the lack of material.

your read on me is the fake one. You know that I only go hard on you like this as town. In FTL I kept you comfortably in my pocket. You 100% know that I don't treat you like this as scum. You're full of shit.

Besides, you are the one who broadened the POE pool too much. You concluded your interactive exercise with a 50/50 split, which is not your typical pattern. You are leaving your options open. I have exactly three suspects.

Damn I so wish I could vote for you. But I think Jiwon is pretty likely your partner here so it's ok.

JiwonMeganPark wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:43 am @MacDougall are you the letter U? Because I love U~

Well this looks like a lover claim huh.



Would nanook really put two of these in a game of this size seeing as they could potentially take down two mafia members? That really seems unlikely to me... unless this one is different from how leetic's choice worked and can only be two townies? I'd honestly be surprised if both Jiwon and Mac are town here though, but if we're assuming a 3 person team, that's Jay + one other, and I suppose someone else could be fooling me.


I don't know. I'm eager to see what Mac says about....anything at all really.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:42 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:32 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:35 pm I get two more posts!

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:24 pm You sir however are in the worse position in my reckoning as per my previous post.

I have nothing to say about Jack's posts. I will snort though that you're suggesting any instance of Jack shoving one of his fecking gifs in someone's face is cause for suspicion. You fakennnn

LMAO thanks for the scumclaim, makes my job easier.

This is confirmed mafia yall.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine


.....i wrote this before the night post and im pissed i cant vote him. likely mafia ability tho so we'll get him eventually

I don't see the scumclaim, tell me your angle!

The very obvious discrediting of my read? Simply claiming that I'm faking, laughing in my face rather than acknowledging that my view of his slot is valid? That is not how town Jay reacts to my tunneling of him. He knows that I'm town and that I'm right and he's just trying to paint me as a scapegoat.

JiwonMeganPark wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:53 pm I am platonic lovers with mac, DKDK'ing Mac will solve all of our problems~
Vote: Macdougall

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm


I can't figure this one out

Wtf I just realized the post cap is way lower today, that's lame af

with jay off the table my vote will likely be between jiwon and mac. will be back in a bit to look further into them

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:46 pm jiwon is mixed bag. i wont do a comprehensive post by post iso, but her posts towards DS could definitely feel like teammate distancing. she did hammer leetic, but we all knew they were a goner at that point of the game. then there's the whole "i don't find your joke funny" to DS, which seems really out of place to me if these people know each other and have btsc. plus, mosts of her posts yesterday felt authentic to me, like the wall of text she wrote defending "first posts," that seemed real as hell to me and just pointless if she was bad? then basically begging to know from Dusk why he felt she was off-tone was so cute and innocent.

i do agree she doesn't feel as loose as i like my players to be. loose and easy, that's how i like 'em. but i've never played with her before either, and she's not a high poster. in FTL she had 33 posts in total and her iso is not very dissimilar to how i'm seeing her here. i don't know why nutella suggests otherwise on that front. -1 for nutella again.

she's in the poe because she could have been distancing, DS. placed her in his town core for no apparent reason, and because the hammer and post that came after the hammer to try and town clear herself sits badly with me. all those "credit" posts have a negative sort of effect on me in general tbh.

finally, jay: are you trying to defend nutella? i'm not sure what you're getting at. it's not farfetched to me to think mac and nutella can both be bad together with DS.

i dunno how many scum we're working with, but my order to town kill would be:
1. nutella
2. mac
3. jiwon

I definitely get a different feeling from her posts than in FTL, but that may be partially chalked up to the fact that I had TMI on her in that game and I don't here. I do think that she had fewer tildes which seem to be her casual/carefree trademark and her long post that didn't have any contributed to my feeling that her posting here is more stiff/careful/restricted. The content of that post and a couple after it also felt odd and potentially forced to me but I'll have to look back to remember why.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:35 pm I get two more posts!

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:24 pm You sir however are in the worse position in my reckoning as per my previous post.

I have nothing to say about Jack's posts. I will snort though that you're suggesting any instance of Jack shoving one of his fecking gifs in someone's face is cause for suspicion. You fakennnn

LMAO thanks for the scumclaim, makes my job easier.

This is confirmed mafia yall.

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine


.....i wrote this before the night post and im pissed i cant vote him. likely mafia ability tho so we'll get him eventually

phew i can post again finally

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:30 pm
In addition, Jay cannot be voted for today!

FUCK





rip dunya

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:14 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:02 pm Mac and Jiwon are my top suspects, and JackJay deserves more scrutiny as well. I have some reasons to feel more good than bad about Tony and LC. Our first three alphabetical players are essentially lock town imo.

I looked at your ISO to learn about your Jiwon suspicion and was confronted with a "multiquote post felt off", "lol hmm", and "weird vibes".

Please miss can I have some more

weird vibes in that she sounds stiff compared to FTL. plus DS put her in town pile with no explanation. I know that's hypocritical as a criticism from me and he could just be pocketing her as well but I think it's fair to guess he lumped me in with a teammate.

You sir however are in the worse position in my reckoning as per my previous post.

FINE I'LL DO IT MYSELF

Interactions of Jackofjay2005 and DS

Jack's posts:

DS's posts:

conclusion: yeah these are teammates

Always a nice surprise to wake up and find that Jay has entered the game and done all the interactive analyses while I was asleep


I really don't even know how to defend my Jack vote lol. I had a snap read of him from his first couple posts, I fairly quickly retracted the "regardless of leetic's alignment" part but that was more due to my change of heart about leetic based on dunya's meta -- though by the end of day that had basically nullified itself and I was back to being fine with the leetic elimination, but never put my vote back both to avoid hammer and because I didn't really feel that strongly about it either way. Why my vote stayed on Jack specifically I don't have much reason for other than I was lazy, felt like my vote didn't matter and didn't have a strong case on anyone else. I did feel better about Jack as his activity progressed but never really arrived at a solid townread of him, and of course Jay skipped his own slot in the analysis so I'd have to look into DS interactions but I think the JackJay slot can still be in the POE.

As for DS, I was moderately surprised when he flipped scum but it also made things make sense in a way -- for instance the "clear" thing, I felt sketched out by that not necessarily just for hard-angleshoot reasons but because I suspect we don't actually have any vanilla townies in this game. I could be wrong of course but it felt off to me and in retrospect makes a lot of sense as a wolf attempting to get credit for being "vanilla" and the fact that it didn't land for anyone as fas as I could tell reinforced that it was an oopsie.

[Mostly-OT] Btw the "yetl" thing is a reference to an incident from a previous season of champs (that I didn't witness firsthand but have heard tell of), I believe the season that DS claims to have been "robbed" of winning lol. Basically he was in F3 with locked-in votes, there was a player named Yeti, and DS baited out the wolf by deliberately voting for a misspelling of Yeti's name so it wouldn't actually go through, and when the other player jumped on it DS caught them as a wolf and voted them instead, and I believe it is the reason that MU added the "invalid vote" warning. It's controversial but I think it was hilarious and clever tbh, I can see why it could be considered dirty play and why they changed the vote label to dissuade it, but I don't know if I'd call it "angleshooting" per se. [/Mostly-OT]


I can't speak for why DS stuck me in his town pile so easily other than assuming it was a pocket attempt.

Mac and Jiwon are my top suspects, and JackJay deserves more scrutiny as well. I have some reasons to feel more good than bad about Tony and LC. Our first three alphabetical players are essentially lock town imo.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:28 pm

DS. wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:19 pm Dropping where I am at before I run out posts
Town
Dusk
Dunya
Jiwon
Nutella

Null to scum
Tony
Jack
LC

Poe:
Leetic
Mac
Epi

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:03 pm DS - Not lynching today (I don't lynch new people Day 1)

And yet you're on me day 1

Nutella is the one that doesn't belong in the top group. He had no engagements with her at all. Epi is probably town because he tilted DS a bit. My POE is the middle 3 plus nutella.

Well I know I'm town so I know he simply had TMI on me. IMO Jiwon is the one that really doesn't fit.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:09 pm I think we should be lynching off wagon for the next few days no need to tinfoil that scum were hard pushing their partners lover

I think it's fairly likely that DS didn't even know about it tbh??


k I only have 4 night posts left i gotta stfu

gut feels without looking back at anything:

dunya
Epi
Dusk
Jack
LC
Jiwon
Tony
Mac

ok, note we can only each post 11 times during night phase. I'll try to take a look at DS interactions at some point.


Jiwon still giving me weird vibes tbh

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:56 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:49 pm ok, that was bad. i'm just so

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:50 pm poe:
mac
epi
nutella
LC

Explain these two posts s'il vous plaît.

she simply misread, I don't see an issue.

Epi puts on good concerts btw.

dunya is my top townread but I can't be 100% sure the concert thing is completely a positive thing so I'm going with Epi

Leetic you done good picking a maf to die.

LOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL

leetic wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:31 pm Town is gonna lose this one, I can already tell.

Love that fighting spirit.

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention]

Oh that's hammered [mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention]