The Syndicate

Correction - On Night 5, I believe I was told Bullzeye wouldn't be redirected at because I had his forum alignment wrong. Because my power still went through by avoiding the Floyd kill, and redirecting it to 3J

Ricochet wrote:Who was challenged alonside JJJ by Sorsha (Found a Job) on Night 1? And Night 3, was that really Matt vs Mac?

In spectator chat, Sorsha told me who else she targeted that night. I forget who, but it wasn't Mac lol.

Ricochet wrote:Which players did Matt target and when? (except the times already mentioned by MP)

Here are my targets for each night... On Night's 3 and 5, I targetted Bullz with another RYMer because I assumed Bullz was a Syndicateer. However, Bullz replaced san mateo. I'm not sure if MP let the Night 3 slide, but on Night 5 I believe I was told my power didn't go through that night because we found the error.

Anyway...

Night 1. Hit Long Con Secondary Targets: Wilgy and 3J (2 out of 3 baddies!)

Night 3. Hit Devin (Draconus) Secondary Targets: Choutas and Bullzeye (1 out of 3 baddies!)

Night 4. Hit Bullzeye Secondary Targets: MacDougall and Devin (Draconus) (2 out of 3 baddies!)

Night 5. Hit Floyd Secondary Targets: Bullzeye and 3J (2 out of 3 baddies!)

Night 7. Hit Epignosis Secondary Targets: motel room and Russ (1 out of 3 baddies!)

Night 9. Hit 3J Secondary Targets: Ricochet and motel room (0 out of 3 baddies

)

Looking back, I had a way better night action game then I realized.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hi, so I'm going to be less active than usual in this'n.

That was 3J's first sentence of the game (in Rym's Day 0 thread)

If ya all check out MP's first post on page 3 of the Syndicate Day 0...

He calls out Long Con, Russ, and Dr Wilgy for not voicing opinions.

wtf

Ricochet wrote:
Matt F wrote:So I guess Rico wasn't trying to force ties Day 0.
Oh no, I was...

did your brain 404'd yet

SAY WHAT?

I haven't really looked at any of the roles or secrets yet.

So I guess Rico wasn't trying to force ties Day 0.

Ricochet wrote:
Matt F wrote:Ummmm apologies to Epig, 3J, Ricochet...
I liked how, given all the barking you did, any suspicion on me or mention of your case on me simply vanished after you died.

I thought my case on you was effin' awesome.

Too bad it wasn't true. Haha.

Thanks 3J! I had a blast. Thought it was kind of hilarious when Diiny killed me and Epi both, tbh.

Linki - password is slooneimcsloon

Ummmm apologies to Epig, 3J, Ricochet...

Way to go town!!!

Good job, baddies, very nice. I was convinced Russ was Love for Sale until I learned otherwise in dead spectator chat. Haha!

Great game, MP and Sloonei!

Well, that was fun. Haha! Good luck playas!

I had my vote on Mac all day, and when I got home from work, I switched my vote, in fact I asked several players who they thought I should switch to because I wanted to have an impact on the outcome and wasn't sure which was the better of the leading candidates, when 3J says to me "If you trust me, vote espers". I still don't know what that means, "if you trust me", I guess he knew something but it didn't quite work out?

Anyway, yeah, I wanted Mac all day that day, I came home and it wasn't happening, so I wanted to make a difference in the last few minutes. Sorry I don't hide my votes where it won't count and I can sit there looking safe.

I do spitball quite frequently and I apologize if that upsets you.

As you have seen, btw, whenever I do post a "Let's lynch this person, guys!", it doesn't work out. I wanted MacDougall Day 5, we lynched espers instead. Wanted Floyd Day 7, we lynched seaside. I did want Sorsha for several days, and I do apologize for that one, but even then, I doubt it was because I asked for it. So in that regard, what is your problem with it? It's not as if I'm leading lynches here and getting civilians killed. That was you on Day 7 when 3J was pretty much done for, and you started the train on seaside.

Epignosis wrote:Matt, I'm going to level with you.

If you are a civilian, you stink.

You load the thread with inconsistent things. 3J and I are scum buddies yesterday and Rico's gotta be lynched next.

Bottom line:

No one takes you seriously.

There's a reason for that. You are all over the place.

There's nothing wrong with having multiple suspicions. Nothing at all, really. I've also spoken, frequently btw, on who I believe to be civvie or anti-mafia in this game, it isn't simply pointing fingers. Who do you find suspicious, Epignosis? Do you have any ideas or do you just plan on tearing people down who do?

Speaking of inconsistent, what do you make of Ricochet's nine different votes in nine different day phases? Is that consistent in your eyes?

However, I do keep coming back to these two posts (and I haven't bothered to post it yet because it is a really far off theory), but since you labeled me inconsistent, I feel like I should share what I've been thinking here...

MacDougall wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MacDougall wrote:It also makes JJJ extremely unlikely to be scum since he was pushing the shit out of it.
And 3J keeps stressing how civilian you are.
I noticed that, too.
I guess that makes you guys literate. Congrats.

MacDougall wrote:You cracked the case guys. Jimmy has been publicly orchestrating town lynches on purpose while maintaining a vocal town read on a teammate and we both bussed Long Con on day 2 because he asked us to.

Or we are both townies who have a town read on each other and both had a scum read on a scum player.

And in a twist of fate you two are our teammates.

Now in these posts, you and Ricochet are "noticing how much 3J has painted Mac town". Then later MacD jokes "you cracked the case blah blah blah and in a twist of fate you two are our teammates."

Usually this could just be taken with a grain of salt, but let's not forget way earlier in the game, MacDougall and his scum friend Long Con could be seen talking about Long Con's role and LC making that comment about "only this role and their teammates know about this role", while openly discussing it with his teammate.

So yes, even if YOU don't like it Epig, my suspicions on who are bad are staying consistent. Right now I like the three of you a lot better then I like motel room or strawhenge (or any other suspish I've had this game).

What do you make of Rico's voting record? What do you make of the rest of the case I laid out?

Linki - 3J - If you think I've broken a rule, I suggest you ask the host either in PM or through the thread, but I assure you, I've done my homework.

Well, on the off chance it is super awesome scheming by baddies, then I would say it is relevant to our thread as well. Also, as I said, I can't recall a circumstance where I've reached into another game to do that, but the specific "nice to meet you" piqued my curiosity.

But I'm glad you're back to responding as opposed to ignoring the multi-point case against you by posting lyrics.

Let me ask you, if you weren't the suspect of that case, and we switched the name to someone else, what would you think of it? Not just any one point, either, but all of it as a whole. You're right, though, a lot of it is based on baddie behavior (and not yours), and I've yet to ISO you focusing on the other Mafia.

motel room wrote:I got pulled into a conference call during the lynch yesterday and then had a bunch of shit back to back. You know, in case anyone missed me.

Typically, looking at other current games doesn't interest me as far as finding evidence one way or another for someone's towniness or scumness, however I saw this post in Long Con's current game...

reywaS wrote:
TheFloyd73 wrote:
reywaS wrote:hello hello hello
'Ello governor, how are you?
awesome! Nice to meet you, Floyd.

...and thought "So either this clears the hell out of Fuzzy" or "Those baddies got some super scheming up their sleeve." Tbh, I could go with either.

Anyway, as I said, nothing can really be done besides speculate one way or the other, but I found that exchange interesting.

Bullzeye wrote:It certainly isn't wild. Or crazy. Some of it is even reasonable. I dunno how I feel about it personally though, I like and dislike it. I would have to think on it more to reach a satisfactory conclusion.

You're killin' me smalls.

Bullz is here! Bullz, look at my case on Rico. A lot different then my "wild theories", am I right?

MacDougall wrote:I think it's entirely fair to say that at this point anybody who has their vote on me is obvious scum, and anybody who has suggested that MattF is anything other than bewilderingly insane is also obvious scum.

So there is actually like a 15 player scum team.

You are all cum.

Took me awhile. But you're right, he didn't call me delusional. It was "bewilderingly insane". M'bad.

Ricochet wrote:From this point onwards, until I die or you come to your senses with your obstinate turd throwing and making apophenia tarts out of every single detail, you are receiving lyrics and nothing else.

MacDougall wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
linki: "Nervous backtracking" was really just the vibe you gave to me. A three paragraph response to something that was quite a flippant and unnecessary accusation reads like you are taking it more seriously than it deserves to be taken.
Not really. First reply I did was asking him where I said I "asked mods to modkill" and clarifying my statements.

I got a "lol" for that, after which I got a multiple-point serious second point. I addressed all of those points.

If you found Matt's accusation flippant and unnecessary, why don't you challenge it as such? I'm on the other end of such an accusation and when that happens, I'll defend myself.
Well I'm kind of killing two birds with one stone by just talking to you about it and ignoring the poop throwing monkey.

It's funny when multiple scum use the same language to describe me. Also, awesome that MacD called me that while having a convo with you, Rico.

Anywho, I've said my case.

Not reposting all that, I'd prolly mess it up again. This is way much more then "wild theories". This is in thread evidence at it's finest. I also apologize that 73% of my case is based off what the Mafia did...maybe next time ask your teammates not to defend you so much (LC, Mac) or tell the thread how super awesome your posts are (Black Rock).

Sonovabitch

Here is my entire case on Ricochet in one post. Also don't forget he purposely caused ties in Day 0

Spoiler: show

Matt F wrote:Alright Rico, I'm not gonna go down this road about Wilgy/3J, because you have even less info then I do about the whole thing, so it's just confusing an doesn't contribute much.

Instead, here you go...

The Case Against Ricochet

I've presented my case against Ricochet twice, but both times, I have not quoted straight from the horse's mouth. So here is my case (again) with quotes instead of just summarizing.

If you're still playing, please take time to read this. One of my better, not so outlandish cases, IMO, and believe it or not I have caught baddies in Mafia before (not just stumbling onto them like what happened with Mac)...

1.
Spoiler: show
Long Con wrote:
bea wrote:
kneel4justice wrote:My main suspicion at this point is Ricco. First of all, he seems to be saying a lot, without really saying anything. Even when he voiced some suspicion, it's done in an "intrigued" tone, as if he's trying to avoid confrontation. If you add to that what K4J said about how he voted at the end of day 0 on the syndicate, it's another reason to not trust him at the moment.
As for rico - he seems fairly rico for me atm. I don't have a good feel for his civ vs his bad game as I've only played a few with him and tbh, I don't remember where he ended on any of them. (This is my fault not his) but his meta seems to be what I'd expect from him.
I snipped the quote for clarity. Here, bea defends Rico while not defending him at the same time. (This opinion of mine is new upon this reread, actually) If either bea or Rico turn up bad, then this kind of statement would make me look at the other.
1. Let's assume Rico is good. Tell me why Long Con said this. Let's assume Rico is bad. You don't have to tell me why Long Con said this, I already know.

2.
Spoiler: show
Long Con wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Before any quotes, I'd like to point out an initial suspicion. It never sits right with me when someone claims that they will be changing and/or playing with a different style after role cards have already been distributed. This applies to Rico, and BWT. I'm not going to go back and try to quote the comment because I'm pretty sure it was Day 0. Rico stated that he'd be more zany and BWT followed suit, almost immediately after Rico. I do not recall BWT's reasoning for claiming a more zany (zanier? zaniest? are those actual words? they don't sit right with me.) and would like to hear about this. Also, someone correct me if my memory of Day 0 events are failing me.
I believe a factor of the "zaniness" is the ongoing contest with the prize going to the person who uses the most Talking Heads in their posts. Zanier and zaniest sit fine with me, as the comparative and superlative forms of 'zany'.
2. Here, we have Dr Wilgy stating his suspicion on those who claim they will change up the way they play this game. He includes Ricochet and BWT in this group. Then, Long Con comes around to save the day by pointing out the contest.

3.
Spoiler: show
Long Con wrote:Day 0 counts as much as we want it to count, as far as I know. If someone did something suspicious on Day 0, then it's valid to suspect them for it during the remainder of the game.

However, I find a preoccupation with Day 0 to be suspicious in and of itself, because there has been plenty of content during Day 1 to sift through. Focusing on Day 0 seems like an angle, a weak way to have conversation and seem to be involved.
3. The above was in response to convo between Choutas and Wilgy, however, I'd also like to note that I had been harping on the fact that Ricochet was making ties in the Day 0 thread despite our host asking us not to.

4.
Spoiler: show
Black Rock wrote:http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 40#p184571

I decided to link to this post instead of quoting it since it's so damn long. I think a lot of thought has gone into this post.
4. Here we have Black Rock telling us she thinks a lot of thought has been put into Rico's post and provides a link for it.

5.
Spoiler: show
Black Rock wrote:http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 40#p184571

Still thinking about this post actually. I'm just loving it, it's very helpful for me. Thank you.
5. Here we have Black Rock linking Rico's post again, telling us she's just "loving it", it's "very helpful".

6.
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:RICOCHET

ROXY

RUNDONTWALK

RUSSTIFINKO
Good

Bad

Good

Good
6. Here we have MacD's G2H read on Ricochet. It is GOOD. In this same G2H, I'd like to point out that MacD lists Black Rock and Floyd as GOOD. He also lists known civvies Bea and Roxy as BAD. Also listed bad - myself (I'm civvie!) and Dr Wilgy and Bullzeye. Considering three of his "BAD" choices are civvie, and he listed two baddie partners as "GOOD", I think this also looks good for the Doctor and Bullzeye. It also wouldn't be out of the question to think that one or more of MacD's partners can be found in MacD's "GOOD" G2H.

7.
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:Jimmy I don't agree with your case on Ricochet if it's based on the fact that he is using Talking Heads phrasings in his posts. Your difficulty following what he's posting is because of that.
7. Here we have MacDougall telling 3J he doesn't agree with 3J's case on Ricochet.

8.
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Jimmy I don't agree with your case on Ricochet if it's based on the fact that he is using Talking Heads phrasings in his posts. Your difficulty following what he's posting is because of that.
That would be a dumb thing to case someone for, I agree. The biggest issue by far is the forced link LC attempted to draw between bea and Rico -- see the portion of my case with all the emoticons.

Tell me what you think.
Well, you did bring it up. If you think it's dumb then why have you brought it up?

I don't think that your linking idea is as huge as you do. It's something. But we have pages and pages of sorsha and golden related content. Not to mention we have an FZ case on Russ that's gathering momentum. Do you think your linking case is more of a valid reason to lynch than any of the other three cases? You are assuming that Long Con didn't just do this to get a townie lynched after he dies?
8. Here we have MacD, again, hoping to sway 3J from his Ricochet case. Instead, wants 3J to focus on Sorsha (civvie) and Golden (civvie). Also brings up a case on Russ.

Per the underline - What does everyone think of this? It feels like he's really really super duper defending Ricochet here, while discussing his own scum teammate's motivations.

9.
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:I read the entire thing as Jimmy getting to the end of his analysis and not having good obs on anyone and forcing himself to have a scum read to validate the whole project in his mind tbh.
MacDougall wrote:I read the entire thing as Jimmy getting to the end of his analysis and not having good obs on anyone and forcing himself to have a scum read to validate the whole project in his mind tbh.
9. The above is how MacDougall would describe 3J's case on Ricochet. He basically disregards it as just 3J having no one else to look at.

10.
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Hmmm

I kind of want to lynch ricochet. The Talking Heads lyrics in every post looks like role responsibility and there is only one role in the game that isn't defined on page 1. Psycho Killer?
Here's a factual motivation, in case my own disclaimer (replicating my disclaimer in the D0 private thread, that K4J and Matt referenced - hence my ideas pre-dating any challenge or motivation) in the thread isn't trustworthy or doesn't cling genuine.
Hmm I didn't see that. You are winning in a landslide hahaha.
10. Here we have MacDougall "sussing" on Ricochet because of Talking Heads lyrics. Rico explains, and MacD says "oh I didn't see that". M'kay. Anyway, in case some of you don't know, this isn't the first time a scum has been seen talking about Rico and the contest...

Spoiler: show
Long Con wrote:Sorry to see you go, BWT. Now Rico will just run away with the contest.
Indeed

11.
Spoiler: show
MacDougall wrote:
Choutas wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Choutas wrote:Dear serial killer

Although we've never met before fate has intertwined our paths. I am sure this will be very bold of me but bare my straightforwardness. I have been having very clear indications that strawhenge/sig/epignosis/rico are scum. By scum I mean scum of the earth. Thugs of the lowest order that need to be exterminated in order for both of our factions to have a decent chance to win this game. Many people call you a serial killer but they are gravely mistaken. You are a white knight upholding justice. Just kill either of those four(or two if you have stacked kills) and make this world a better place.

PS: Cherish every moment, life is too small for being petty.
PS 2: Don't kill me.

Your beautiful and all knowing friend.
Little Chris.
!

Not only am I scum for you for allegedly chatting about the SK (feel free to refresh your scum read on me, if otherwise)

but you've just went from "talking about SK is scum"

to addressing the SK himself and asking for his "help"!

There is no vigilante in this game so I recoursed to the next available role. I didn't talk about the serial killer I asked from him to kill you. Did you see any theorizing on who the SK is? Thank you for proving me right.
Seriously if you're not a scum I'm willing to retire from playing mafia. Seriously you have my word for it.
Perhaps you can try making a case against rico and getting the rest of us to comply with it rather than asking the serial killer to target them and playing a retirement gambit over it.

That would be the expected behaviour anyway.
11. Here we have Choutas asking the SK to kill Rico (as well as three other players). Mac responds lecturing Choutas, asking him to build a case on Rico instead of asking the SK to kill him. Why wasn't scum MacDougall concerned with Choutas building a case on the other three players he named?

12.
Spoiler: show
Ricochet wrote:Imma watch Stop Making Sense in a bit...

I'm also presenting my Skittles Talking Heads version of a read spreadsheet. Skittles because the whole rainbow thing suddenly make me think of that and Talking Heads because hmm I wonder why...

FZ Will fight with understanding A few aggressive demands, snappy lines and shooting down players' suspicions by invoking the "why would any baddie do that" viewpoint away from townreading her, but overall I'm feeling good about her.

Zebra I kinda like that style Aside from getting a bit eyeballery lately, I stick to what I've said about feeling good about his activity.

Mac What's the matter with him? He's alright! A two-Day hunt already against either removing low posters (his vote for rey D1) or removing undesirable ones (his seaside early D2 push) and his switch to Llama, with his thoughts on him dating way back on D1, raise me an eyebrow for now, otherwise I'd be lying if I'd deny that his activity doesn't give me an impressive town vibe.

LC I like this curious feeling I sure hope he isn't "Scum Conning" and thus make me regret saying this later on, but I'm ok with his game so far. Whilst I'm not so confident it would have achieved the fishing results he desired, his bea gambit doesn't strike me as different from any baiting attempts players might try at this early stage; in fact, it's more developed than the usual bait & hook attempts I've seen. Some players are unnerved by how genuine his case seemed for a sec, but it doesn't give me the feel that it was anything but well developed.

Roxy She's gonna hold it, move it Bantervotegate in the past, I see she moved to some mild, but serious thoughts, which read like regular Roxy to me so far.

Bullzeye Show me what you can do No read until he's properly engaged.

espers Moon occults the sun

Matt I'm looking back I really wouldn't mind hearing more from him on players' current activity, at least as much as he's making D0 connections

Eloh She must be having fun Hardly involved so far - went for "selling" her vote D1 to the funniest poster (which was MacDougall), although she also mentioned a suss reason for Diiny which I'd like her to maybe elaborate further. That D1 caught-up-yet-not-adressing-anything post also pinged me a bit. Waiting to hear more from her, tough to discern right now if genuinely laidback or sidelining.

Choutas good kid, m.a.a.d city Bit heavy on meta and such interpretations in his posts overall. On its own, if seaside will flip bad, I doubt a teammate would stick his neck for him so much - RYMers: is Choutas usually playful with this kind of thing? I've had no pings from him on Day 1 and still don't overall, although I'd say his D2 activity has dropped to slightly more wishy-washy posts and interactions.

Sorsha Who knows, who knows, what she's thinking Some of her early thoughts (thinking sig "slipped", agreeing with B24 on BWT's vote) are pinging me, plus her BWT vote is clearly not stellar (but also seems like a typical sanction for BWT flip-flopping or something like that), but I don't get a strong read out of everything else. Her inquiry on LC's choice for baiting and her stance on not lynching players just for their undesirable status sound reasonable.

motel Who is it

Epig And the heat goes on My initial feeling was also that Epig is quieter this game, but upon re-reading, that's not quite the case; furthermore, by saying he didn't step on anyone's toes yet, it still doesn't exclude the beef between FZ. and him having turned into that, as of right now. As far as I recall, when he goes quieter and players pick up on that, he always brings the argument that, technically, no one is ever satisfied with him, whether he's vocal and agressive or he suddenly cools it - and this particular discussion always reaches a sort of dead end, afterwards. The facts he brings in his rebuttals seem to check out and I don't think he was word-twisty with FZ, nonetheless I would once again stress that it wouldn't be unlike him to counter hard or to enjoy putting WIFOM or such up in the thread.

JJJ I got a question I'll be perfectly honest, 9 out of 10 games, JJJ will probably disarm me with his posting volume and style; when civ, I can totally relate to it; if he's doing it as a baddie, it blinds me. That being said, his repeated questionings of what other players meant with their own suspicions did give me a slight ping, as if it's an added dimension to his inquiring that might come off as phony, since I don't recall it much in previous games. But not ready to rule on him.

Golden A big chief with a golden crown My instinct has him right now at a status of not giving us enough as to feel like he's playing at his civviest. And it doesn't have anything to do with his RL hindrances or such; quite simply, out of all the big players, he gives me the feel of skating on the surface the most, currently. Furthermore, of all the players suspecting me, I'm still surprised, to say the least, of his meta-less interpretation of my defensiveness; granted, he's become more of an unfortunate spectator (i.e. getting lynched already, early on) by the time I heavily manifested these same traits in my recent previous games, still, I'd expect him to correlate this, instead of simply forwarding that my behaviour must be as plain as aggressively trying to turn the heat off me.

sea Cool down, stop acting crazy His posts and reads up to his clarification/apologetic (?) statement seemed written whilst tripping balls, but now he appears to acknowledge them as such. Not sure I totally understand his "I wanted to get lynched" viewpoint (I mean, you'd still make us waste a lynch, regardless how beneficial you'd wish for your removal to be). His aversion to lurking it out (or to players doing that) is also interesting - I'd agree with some of the names he called out on (like RDW), but seeing as he dumped everyone else with minimal writing in there as well, I'll be curious to see if he keeps drumming on this policy lynching thing or develops his reads into much more in the upcoming days

Llama Facts are never what they seem to be This gent has turned it very low on hunting (even for fishing purposes or on BS pings), which makes me just slightly curious if it's pure avoidance after his Recruitement debut where, as a pure-blood baddie, he BS'd everyone with one of his usual gambits. His hunch of K4J never being off'ed by a local also reminds me of how players filtered in Recruitement, after Typhoony was murdered N1, that a player who played before with him would never have done such a hideous deed (incidentally, it was Llama who killed Typhoony, but since he indeed had never played with him before, the "prediction" still came true). I wonder if it would be true in this case as well - aka an RYMer being K4J's murderer - or if Llama is just throwing such speculation in a cheeky way. Furthermore, it has to be noted that we're talking about a 7-member mafia that killed K4J; if Llama is really serious that no Syndicateer would agree to off K4J on the first Night, it's quite a strong and crazy supposition that the mafia team is strictly RYM comprised. I could technically lower him to a redder skittle for all of this, but I want to gather more info and reads on him before deciding whether to purse lynching him.

bea Same as she ever was Little new input on D2, mostly on LC's "gambit". When LC announced his case on her was fake, she reacted in a playful manner, but since she returned during the Night, suddenly finding it odd that he would ever pick her. Perhaps an easy fine-tuning to the rest of the chorus that did not appreciate LC's moves? I don't think she understood too well my own suspicion on her either: I didn't imply she was steering the discussion into a "let's not give too much weight to D1 pings and such" direction, I said that I feel she pushed her credo ahead of any real activity and reads. Anyway, I still can't say that I trust bea much in this game, right now.

rey I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am The more he stays in the game and plays nada, the more he'll give me the worst vibes, because of his Recruitement stunts. In Syndicate Mafia he subbed out when he (I assume) couldn't play anymore and I'm pretty sure he had a civ role there (although there's still some unresolved conflict around that particular issue), so why hold on to the role here? I mean no offence, but he should consider subbing here as well, if he's civ and can't play.

Devin Why, why, why, why start it over? Not very focused posts and votes so far. Since he's repeating his votes so far (Diiny) I'd expect him to elaborate some more. That throwback post about how rey played as an SK, given that he more or less pulled the same card with a similar status, really doesn't sit well with me and gives me a bad vibe.

MM Takes a lot of time to push away the nonsense Ugh. Getting tired of this feeling. I don't find that his posts have a lot of substance so far, he made his D1 vote based on "pingiest of pings" and has left today a vote adrift, because he'll go AWOL. What was his eyeballin' of Russ for, even? Russ said the Host warned him on participation requirements, not that anyone else via supposed BTSC did. Anyway, Marsh is being Marsh and whilst I probably need to take a break from being annoyed of Marsh being Marsh, I pretty much get nothing but bad vibes from him currently.

RDW Better ru- nah too easy I guess we still need a Bass player, don't we? So far his posts seems like whole lotta waffling, with every major thought he came up with sounding more like a different culture mentality ("players should just post gut reads instead of elaborating"; "scum players would act tearjerky about the night victims" etc.) than some serious suss leads. At least in my view, of course.

Floyd ...comes to town Must be town. Seriously though, those ghost moves, I don't like them one bit.

b24 Same as he ever was AWOL since Day 1. My suspicion of him still stands.

Wilgy Doctor, doctor, tell me who you are Until further development, same as I was saying. No me gusta his D1 vote.

sig Setting a bad example Feeling much worse about him since the BWT vote, I still don't get what he meant by "them" in the context of HB being killed by one SK.

?????? Diiny Flippy floppy Holy shit, I was this close to green skittle him (just like on D1), until dat flip-flop on Wilgy.
12. Here we have Ricochet giving Mac and Long Con green skittles in his skittles read.

13.
Spoiler: show
Ricochet wrote:Mac - this would be some major freaking 5 Michelin stars on-a-plate bussing and I don't have any pings on Mac to even begin suspecting such him performing such an in-our-face-ness; town until more flips influence any change in my perception of him
13. Here is Rico's second skittles read, giving Mac the green for good skittle.

14.
Spoiler: show
Ricochet wrote:I won't pull the trigger on JJJ without having re-read him, which is not simply impossible. I respect him as a player, regardless of what it'll turn out that he tried to do in this game. If he's mafia, it'll be the juiciest and craftiest distancing from/bussing of a teammate I can think of. If he's good, he will have burned himself too much in that townread of MacBaddie - I got punished and mislynched for way softer looking defending, a few times. In a way, I can agree that we can't proceed too much in the game without clarifying this did-he-didn't-he matter, nonetheless I'm not going to choose in lack of having done any analysis. I have no objections to a Floyd lynch, but if JJJ is mafia, I can't take any chances to have contributed to his counterwagon succeeding, either.
14. Despite giving Floyd orange skittle reads all game, saying stuff like "Floyd is continuing down the WTF path", and even displaying a meme towards Floyd that said "Getting real tired of your bullshit", refused to vote for Floyd because of some weird counterlynch excuse. M'kay.

15.
Spoiler: show
Ricochet wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Okay, Matt F. You asked me if Mac has a tendency to vote for his mafia team mates on Day 1. I did some research into the RYM Mafia archives and didn't struggle at all to find valid examples:
But...he didn't vote for any teammates in this game.
15. Here is Ricochet's supposed "slip". Judging by everything else I just laid out, I believe it was a slip.

Serious peeps, next day phase, can we lynch the eff out of this guy?

Spoiler: show

Matt F wrote:Y'know, there's so much scum on Rico, I forgot to mention some of it during my big case. So much scum!!!

Spoiler: show
Ricochet wrote:I'd like to ask the Hosts what RDW's status is and what's in store for him, it's a week since he last posted, so way beyond the 72-hour grace period.
Here we have Rico letting the host know that RDW (a civvie!!) is "so way beyond the 72-hour grace period", and he'd like to know "what's in store for him".

Now, later on, I would question why Rico is trying to get players mod-killed, and he would say he "was not trying to get players modkilled", but before I quote that fun conversation, let me bring this to your attention, this post which occurred after Rico essentially asking for a modkill and before Rico telling me that's NOT what he was doing...

Spoiler: show
Ricochet wrote:
Sloonei wrote: rundontwalk has been modkilled for inactivity. He was Road to Nowhere.
Bye RDW. Bad civ role loss, dammit. I was hoping at least one of the mafioso would be a slacker worth modkilling.
M'kay. Now our convo about it...

Spoiler: show
Ricochet wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Matt F wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Matt F wrote:Tbh, Rico, you continually asking MP to modkill non-players makes me increasingly suspicious. Didn't you call for rdw's modkill, and he was civvie?
Where did I ask the Hosts to modkill either espers or RDW? I asked for status clarification, under the Participation Score guidelines.
Lol
Seriously, this had me laughing but down to business...

You correcting me from "modkill" to "status clarification" is all well and good, but you've hardly defended the point. Why do you keep asking for status clarification if you're not trying to get them mod-killed?

Also, I seem to remember a certain Rico causing ties in the Day 0 thread.

Linki - The civvie killer hasn't killed once. Earlier I was thinking maybe that role went to HamburgerBoy.
I'm not correcting you, you said that I've "asked MP to modkill". That's literally defending myself against you, at best, misunderstanding what I did and, at worst, putting words in my mouth.

I can't get anyone modkilled, modkills don't happen at players' requests. People will get modkilled if they fail to meet the criterias.

I don't have any idea what connection there is between Day 0 and this subject. But if you insist, lemme just roll my sleeves, in case you really want to go over that thing again, for no reason except that you have it written in your notebook.
Anyway, also in my case, I forgot to lynch Rico's voting record...

Day 1 - Bea (civ)
Day 2 - Dr Wilgy
Day 3 - Golden (civ)
Day 4 - Devin (civ)
Day 5 - espers (civ)
Day 6 - MacDougall (bad - made a case on him...players who have played with Rico, does he buss his teamies?)
Day 7 - Choutas
Day 8 - Metalmarsh
Day 9 - sig (civ)

After nine day phases, has not repeated a single vote. Yet players accuse me of randomly pointing out bad guys. M'kay. It looks to me like Rico can't stick with a suspicion. Prolly cuz he has none since he's on dat Mafia.

C'mon peeps. Lynch him with me next day phase? Please?

Please note in that convo about RDW, Rico himself acknowledges he also asked the host "clarification" on espers (another civvie!!) status.

Lynch this man!

Linki - Lol at song lyrics. At least you can be funny when caught red handed. :P

I currently have about 17 or 18 points against you, Rico.

If you get tired of song lyrics, please address each one individually.

Thank you.

Matt F wrote:Anyway, also in my case, I forgot to lynch Rico's voting record...

I forgot to list* Rico's voting record...

As you can see, I really want this scum gone.

Linki - Rico, again, I'm looking forward to you calling me names if I'm wrong. Every other player, whattaya think?

Y'know, there's so much scum on Rico, I forgot to mention some of it during my big case. So much scum!!!

Spoiler: show

Here we have Rico letting the host know that RDW (a civvie!!) is "so way beyond the 72-hour grace period", and he'd like to know "what's in store for him".

Now, later on, I would question why Rico is trying to get players mod-killed, and he would say he "was not trying to get players modkilled", but before I quote that fun conversation, let me bring this to your attention, this post which occurred after Rico essentially asking for a modkill and before Rico telling me that's NOT what he was doing...

Spoiler: show

M'kay. Now our convo about it...

Spoiler: show

Anyway, also in my case, I forgot to lynch Rico's voting record...

Day 1 - Bea (civ)
Day 2 - Dr Wilgy
Day 3 - Golden (civ)
Day 4 - Devin (civ)
Day 5 - espers (civ)
Day 6 - MacDougall (bad - made a case on him...players who have played with Rico, does he buss his teamies?)
Day 7 - Choutas
Day 8 - Metalmarsh
Day 9 - sig (civ)

After nine day phases, has not repeated a single vote. Yet players accuse me of randomly pointing out bad guys. M'kay. It looks to me like Rico can't stick with a suspicion. Prolly cuz he has none since he's on dat Mafia.

C'mon peeps. Lynch him with me next day phase? Please?

Rico - We've already went back and forth. In the case I just provided, I also listed some other things that weren't found in my previous cases so saying "Oh just the same thing", okey dokey sure. Anyway, I'm more interested in every other player's reaction to my case, not yours. We already know your reaction. You'll call me names if I'm wrong.

3J - Case me, by all means. When you're done with that, can you read my case on Rico? Thanks.

Back to Rico - Give me an answer for # 1. Acknowledge that Mac defended you a bunch. Acknowledge Black Rock loving your posts and how helpful they were. Acknowledge you not wanting to lynch Floyd because of some weird counterlynch excuse despite you sussing him all game and even going so far to post a meme sussing him. Give me your opinions on Mac's G2H reads the day he listed Floyd and Black Rock as good. Do you think he also has other teamies listed as good in that G2H? Because he certainly has a couple civvies, bea and Roxy (and me!), as bad.

Dude, don't deny that this case looks bad against you. It absolutely does. I believe you even said so yourself in a previous response to me. It's not all in my head, I'm not simply "delusional" (oh, Mac also called me this once, he flipped scum).

Please every other player - evaluate my case and before reading it, try to put out of your head that "Crazy Matt F makin' another case", cuz this one feels really good, IMO.

Alright Rico, I'm not gonna go down this road about Wilgy/3J, because you have even less info then I do about the whole thing, so it's just confusing an doesn't contribute much.

Instead, here you go...

The Case Against Ricochet

I've presented my case against Ricochet twice, but both times, I have not quoted straight from the horse's mouth. So here is my case (again) with quotes instead of just summarizing.

If you're still playing, please take time to read this. One of my better, not so outlandish cases, IMO, and believe it or not I have caught baddies in Mafia before (not just stumbling onto them like what happened with Mac)...

1.

Spoiler: show

1. Let's assume Rico is good. Tell me why Long Con said this. Let's assume Rico is bad. You don't have to tell me why Long Con said this, I already know.

2.

Spoiler: show

2. Here, we have Dr Wilgy stating his suspicion on those who claim they will change up the way they play this game. He includes Ricochet and BWT in this group. Then, Long Con comes around to save the day by pointing out the contest.

3.

Spoiler: show

3. The above was in response to convo between Choutas and Wilgy, however, I'd also like to note that I had been harping on the fact that Ricochet was making ties in the Day 0 thread despite our host asking us not to.

4.

Spoiler: show

4. Here we have Black Rock telling us she thinks a lot of thought has been put into Rico's post and provides a link for it.

5.

Spoiler: show

5. Here we have Black Rock linking Rico's post again, telling us she's just "loving it", it's "very helpful".

6.

Spoiler: show

6. Here we have MacD's G2H read on Ricochet. It is GOOD. In this same G2H, I'd like to point out that MacD lists Black Rock and Floyd as GOOD. He also lists known civvies Bea and Roxy as BAD. Also listed bad - myself (I'm civvie!) and Dr Wilgy and Bullzeye. Considering three of his "BAD" choices are civvie, and he listed two baddie partners as "GOOD", I think this also looks good for the Doctor and Bullzeye. It also wouldn't be out of the question to think that one or more of MacD's partners can be found in MacD's "GOOD" G2H.

7.

Spoiler: show

7. Here we have MacDougall telling 3J he doesn't agree with 3J's case on Ricochet.

8.

Spoiler: show

8. Here we have MacD, again, hoping to sway 3J from his Ricochet case. Instead, wants 3J to focus on Sorsha (civvie) and Golden (civvie). Also brings up a case on Russ.

Per the underline - What does everyone think of this? It feels like he's really really super duper defending Ricochet here, while discussing his own scum teammate's motivations.

9.

Spoiler: show

9. The above is how MacDougall would describe 3J's case on Ricochet. He basically disregards it as just 3J having no one else to look at.

10.

Spoiler: show

10. Here we have MacDougall "sussing" on Ricochet because of Talking Heads lyrics. Rico explains, and MacD says "oh I didn't see that". M'kay. Anyway, in case some of you don't know, this isn't the first time a scum has been seen talking about Rico and the contest...

Spoiler: show

Indeed

11.

Spoiler: show

11. Here we have Choutas asking the SK to kill Rico (as well as three other players). Mac responds lecturing Choutas, asking him to build a case on Rico instead of asking the SK to kill him. Why wasn't scum MacDougall concerned with Choutas building a case on the other three players he named?

12.

Spoiler: show

Ricochet wrote:Imma watch Stop Making Sense in a bit...

I'm also presenting my Skittles Talking Heads version of a read spreadsheet. Skittles because the whole rainbow thing suddenly make me think of that and Talking Heads because hmm I wonder why...

FZ Will fight with understanding A few aggressive demands, snappy lines and shooting down players' suspicions by invoking the "why would any baddie do that" viewpoint away from townreading her, but overall I'm feeling good about her.

Zebra I kinda like that style Aside from getting a bit eyeballery lately, I stick to what I've said about feeling good about his activity.

Mac What's the matter with him? He's alright! A two-Day hunt already against either removing low posters (his vote for rey D1) or removing undesirable ones (his seaside early D2 push) and his switch to Llama, with his thoughts on him dating way back on D1, raise me an eyebrow for now, otherwise I'd be lying if I'd deny that his activity doesn't give me an impressive town vibe.

LC I like this curious feeling I sure hope he isn't "Scum Conning" and thus make me regret saying this later on, but I'm ok with his game so far. Whilst I'm not so confident it would have achieved the fishing results he desired, his bea gambit doesn't strike me as different from any baiting attempts players might try at this early stage; in fact, it's more developed than the usual bait & hook attempts I've seen. Some players are unnerved by how genuine his case seemed for a sec, but it doesn't give me the feel that it was anything but well developed.

Roxy She's gonna hold it, move it Bantervotegate in the past, I see she moved to some mild, but serious thoughts, which read like regular Roxy to me so far.

Bullzeye Show me what you can do No read until he's properly engaged.

espers Moon occults the sun

Matt I'm looking back I really wouldn't mind hearing more from him on players' current activity, at least as much as he's making D0 connections

Eloh She must be having fun Hardly involved so far - went for "selling" her vote D1 to the funniest poster (which was MacDougall), although she also mentioned a suss reason for Diiny which I'd like her to maybe elaborate further. That D1 caught-up-yet-not-adressing-anything post also pinged me a bit. Waiting to hear more from her, tough to discern right now if genuinely laidback or sidelining.

Choutas good kid, m.a.a.d city Bit heavy on meta and such interpretations in his posts overall. On its own, if seaside will flip bad, I doubt a teammate would stick his neck for him so much - RYMers: is Choutas usually playful with this kind of thing? I've had no pings from him on Day 1 and still don't overall, although I'd say his D2 activity has dropped to slightly more wishy-washy posts and interactions.

Sorsha Who knows, who knows, what she's thinking Some of her early thoughts (thinking sig "slipped", agreeing with B24 on BWT's vote) are pinging me, plus her BWT vote is clearly not stellar (but also seems like a typical sanction for BWT flip-flopping or something like that), but I don't get a strong read out of everything else. Her inquiry on LC's choice for baiting and her stance on not lynching players just for their undesirable status sound reasonable.

motel Who is it

Epig And the heat goes on My initial feeling was also that Epig is quieter this game, but upon re-reading, that's not quite the case; furthermore, by saying he didn't step on anyone's toes yet, it still doesn't exclude the beef between FZ. and him having turned into that, as of right now. As far as I recall, when he goes quieter and players pick up on that, he always brings the argument that, technically, no one is ever satisfied with him, whether he's vocal and agressive or he suddenly cools it - and this particular discussion always reaches a sort of dead end, afterwards. The facts he brings in his rebuttals seem to check out and I don't think he was word-twisty with FZ, nonetheless I would once again stress that it wouldn't be unlike him to counter hard or to enjoy putting WIFOM or such up in the thread.

JJJ I got a question I'll be perfectly honest, 9 out of 10 games, JJJ will probably disarm me with his posting volume and style; when civ, I can totally relate to it; if he's doing it as a baddie, it blinds me. That being said, his repeated questionings of what other players meant with their own suspicions did give me a slight ping, as if it's an added dimension to his inquiring that might come off as phony, since I don't recall it much in previous games. But not ready to rule on him.

Golden A big chief with a golden crown My instinct has him right now at a status of not giving us enough as to feel like he's playing at his civviest. And it doesn't have anything to do with his RL hindrances or such; quite simply, out of all the big players, he gives me the feel of skating on the surface the most, currently. Furthermore, of all the players suspecting me, I'm still surprised, to say the least, of his meta-less interpretation of my defensiveness; granted, he's become more of an unfortunate spectator (i.e. getting lynched already, early on) by the time I heavily manifested these same traits in my recent previous games, still, I'd expect him to correlate this, instead of simply forwarding that my behaviour must be as plain as aggressively trying to turn the heat off me.

sea Cool down, stop acting crazy His posts and reads up to his clarification/apologetic (?) statement seemed written whilst tripping balls, but now he appears to acknowledge them as such. Not sure I totally understand his "I wanted to get lynched" viewpoint (I mean, you'd still make us waste a lynch, regardless how beneficial you'd wish for your removal to be). His aversion to lurking it out (or to players doing that) is also interesting - I'd agree with some of the names he called out on (like RDW), but seeing as he dumped everyone else with minimal writing in there as well, I'll be curious to see if he keeps drumming on this policy lynching thing or develops his reads into much more in the upcoming days

Llama Facts are never what they seem to be This gent has turned it very low on hunting (even for fishing purposes or on BS pings), which makes me just slightly curious if it's pure avoidance after his Recruitement debut where, as a pure-blood baddie, he BS'd everyone with one of his usual gambits. His hunch of K4J never being off'ed by a local also reminds me of how players filtered in Recruitement, after Typhoony was murdered N1, that a player who played before with him would never have done such a hideous deed (incidentally, it was Llama who killed Typhoony, but since he indeed had never played with him before, the "prediction" still came true). I wonder if it would be true in this case as well - aka an RYMer being K4J's murderer - or if Llama is just throwing such speculation in a cheeky way. Furthermore, it has to be noted that we're talking about a 7-member mafia that killed K4J; if Llama is really serious that no Syndicateer would agree to off K4J on the first Night, it's quite a strong and crazy supposition that the mafia team is strictly RYM comprised. I could technically lower him to a redder skittle for all of this, but I want to gather more info and reads on him before deciding whether to purse lynching him.

bea Same as she ever was Little new input on D2, mostly on LC's "gambit". When LC announced his case on her was fake, she reacted in a playful manner, but since she returned during the Night, suddenly finding it odd that he would ever pick her. Perhaps an easy fine-tuning to the rest of the chorus that did not appreciate LC's moves? I don't think she understood too well my own suspicion on her either: I didn't imply she was steering the discussion into a "let's not give too much weight to D1 pings and such" direction, I said that I feel she pushed her credo ahead of any real activity and reads. Anyway, I still can't say that I trust bea much in this game, right now.

rey I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am The more he stays in the game and plays nada, the more he'll give me the worst vibes, because of his Recruitement stunts. In Syndicate Mafia he subbed out when he (I assume) couldn't play anymore and I'm pretty sure he had a civ role there (although there's still some unresolved conflict around that particular issue), so why hold on to the role here? I mean no offence, but he should consider subbing here as well, if he's civ and can't play.

Devin Why, why, why, why start it over? Not very focused posts and votes so far. Since he's repeating his votes so far (Diiny) I'd expect him to elaborate some more. That throwback post about how rey played as an SK, given that he more or less pulled the same card with a similar status, really doesn't sit well with me and gives me a bad vibe.

MM Takes a lot of time to push away the nonsense Ugh. Getting tired of this feeling. I don't find that his posts have a lot of substance so far, he made his D1 vote based on "pingiest of pings" and has left today a vote adrift, because he'll go AWOL. What was his eyeballin' of Russ for, even? Russ said the Host warned him on participation requirements, not that anyone else via supposed BTSC did. Anyway, Marsh is being Marsh and whilst I probably need to take a break from being annoyed of Marsh being Marsh, I pretty much get nothing but bad vibes from him currently.

RDW Better ru- nah too easy I guess we still need a Bass player, don't we? So far his posts seems like whole lotta waffling, with every major thought he came up with sounding more like a different culture mentality ("players should just post gut reads instead of elaborating"; "scum players would act tearjerky about the night victims" etc.) than some serious suss leads. At least in my view, of course.

Floyd ...comes to town Must be town. Seriously though, those ghost moves, I don't like them one bit.

b24 Same as he ever was AWOL since Day 1. My suspicion of him still stands.

Wilgy Doctor, doctor, tell me who you are Until further development, same as I was saying. No me gusta his D1 vote.

sig Setting a bad example Feeling much worse about him since the BWT vote, I still don't get what he meant by "them" in the context of HB being killed by one SK.

?????? Diiny Flippy floppy Holy shit, I was this close to green skittle him (just like on D1), until dat flip-flop on Wilgy.

12. Here we have Ricochet giving Mac and Long Con green skittles in his skittles read.

13.

Spoiler: show

13. Here is Rico's second skittles read, giving Mac the green for good skittle.

14.

Spoiler: show

14. Despite giving Floyd orange skittle reads all game, saying stuff like "Floyd is continuing down the WTF path", and even displaying a meme towards Floyd that said "Getting real tired of your bullshit", refused to vote for Floyd because of some weird counterlynch excuse. M'kay.

15.

Spoiler: show

15. Here is Ricochet's supposed "slip". Judging by everything else I just laid out, I believe it was a slip.

Serious peeps, next day phase, can we lynch the eff out of this guy?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:The order is important. Where I got those names from is unimportant.

So am I the only player who found Rico's "I'm not getting shit from this convo" response to Dr Wilgy interesting? When Dr Wilgy wasn't even addressing Rico, he was addressing Rico's baddie partner 3J.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Epignosis
Matt F
Ricochet
Strawhenge

Unless you're being serious, in which case

Ricochet wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:You, me, Fuzz, Matt F, Floyd, and Mac.

You and I are different from the others though.
Ok, you seem to be referencing CEO assistant stuff that you and JJJ should be aware about, but FYI, I don't think us normies can pick up on anything from this. At least I know I can't pick up shit from it.

Rico, since you say I'm twisting shit, I wanted to quote this.

Maybe "freak out" is inappropriate.

Above, what I see, is Dr Wilgy asking 3J a question. He wasn't asking you a question. Then you come rolling in "I don't think us normies can pick up on this, I can't pick up shit from it" pretty strong language there fella, for Wilgy asking 3J (not YOU) a simple question.

As for the rest of your post, as I already stated, the reactions from you and 3J responding to Wilgy (which are reactions that occurred in thread) are enough for me.

3J - Claiming you have no idea what Dr Wilgy is talking about, then claiming "Oh wait that's stuff we're not supposed to talk about", then going back to "I don't know what he's even talking about"...c'mon dude. Also, now you and Wilgy are doing some weird list thing as Rico pointed out. So it's cool for you and Dr Wilgy to make vague lists in thread that the town has no idea what you mean, yet you can't answer his question? M'kay.

Anyway, Rico has more in thread evidence against him. Connections to all (known at least) dead baddies have been made. I've repeated these connections. I think we should get 'em next day phase.

I'd also like to emphasize that I am interested in the reactions of 3J and (very curiously) Ricochet in regards to Dr Wilgy asking questions, which is an in-thread reason for reasonable suspicion.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Matt F wrote:In fact, 3J didn't seem too pleased to discuss anything of the sort either.
Yeah no kidding, it's against the freaking rules.

I beg to differ.

MovingPictures07 wrote: 5. No dumping information you received from the Host (whether role-related or not) into the thread. This includes statements that more often are seen as implications, rather than statements of fact (role outing). An example would be declaring that "I have reasons to believe Sloonei is Psycho Killer" without elaborating. If you suspect someone to be a certain role or alignment, use in-thread reasons to back up your assertion or speculation, even if your reasons are sourced from information you gained outside of the thread. If you are unsure if what you are about to say constitutes info dumping, please PM the hosts first before making the post. If you fail to do this and your post does violate information dumping, then you and your faction will be punished.

Explain how you'd be breaking rules. Above it says you cannot dump info you received from the host. Wilgy was asking you a question, and from the looks of it, it didn't look like he was asking you anything regarding host related info. He was asking you a question, something about me, Fuzz, Floyd, and MacD having something in common.

Also above, it says you must use in thread reasons, not reasons from outside of the thread, to accuse someone of being a certain role or alignment. Again, Wilgy was doing neither of these things. He was asking you a question, not accusing you. Here are his statements on the matter:

DrWilgy wrote:JJJ there's a relationship between you, and several other players. Some are dead now, but I'm pretty sure you established that relationship. I want to know from you why those players.

DrWilgy wrote:You, me, Fuzz, Matt F, Floyd, and Mac.

You and I are different from the others though.

DrWilgy wrote:It's game related, I want to know why these players have something in common, not what they have in common. I wouldn't ask for something that's top secret.

Then, Rico starts freakin' out "Nobody gets it but you two stop talking about it now!" (paraphrasing)

So can we lynch these two next coupe of day phases?

RIP Eloh and Sig

Can we lynch Rico or 3J next day phase?

Rico looked pretty defensive when Dr Wilgy started asking 3J questions about their CEO jobs. In fact, 3J didn't seem too pleased to discuss anything of the sort either.

Rico, if you didn't have Elohcin pegged as Animals, then who did you think she was and why?

My friends are seriously irked at me right now for delaying Batman but I had to come back for a short sec...

Dr Wilgy, this isn't really a question, more of a comment.

It is curious to me that out of all the players in the game, you just happened to pick at least two scum (Floyd, MacD). I know I'm civvie, don't know about Fuzz...

Would you say your picks were just bad luck?

Anyway, out! Peace

Impromptu Batman Arkham session! Woot!

Good luck, town! Good luck, Fuzz! Good luck, sig! Bad luck to Rico, 3J, and Epig! :P

Linki - Okay, well, I don't want to keep talking about this. No doubt MP is tearing his hair out right now.

Peace!

I don't either, but without infodumping, are you aware of what he did, though? (or what I firmly believe him to have done?)

Fuzz - Wilgy included you as well as scum Floyd, MacD, and civvie Matt F in his "plan". I'm pretty sure I know exactly what he did. Are you not aware of what transpired? (or am I just totally off my rocker?)

Also, Fuzz is here. Now that he's here, he can defend. I will no longer cry foul over lynching him.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My level of interest in the notion of recruitment remains at zero until there is real evidence it exists in this game.

So basically, unless we stumble upon lynching a recruited player, you're going to ignore it. Okey dokey.

Wow, I'm having a hard time keeping out of this thread today...

No Epig, I don't think it has.

Also, why did bcornett vote the host option?

I'm gonna stop promising to keep out of the thread. Obviously I can't keep that promise lol

Swear, last time, just wanted to repost...

Ricochet wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Matt F wrote:HOSTS - If a civilian is recruited to the Mafia or with the SK, if lynched, will the town be told they have been recruited or will the role just be revealed?
Any recruits will be revealed upon role reveal.
Interesting. MP said "will", not "would". A "Will be revealed" scenario, not a "would be revealed" one.

Is this basically confirmation of recruiting happening?

I do plan on staying out of here today as much as possible, but since I was addressed...

Rico, I understand you replied to me. That doesn't mean I have to take your word at face value and believe it. Currently I see the most evidence against you, so that is where I'm voting.

Resume...

*yawn*

Read myself over and I think I'm getting a little too excited. Gonna step back today and see if rest of town can give us another successful lynch. I personally don't believe we should lynch a player who is unable to defend, but then again, I'm also the guy who wanted to boot the noob after like two days so it's not like I'm Mr Moral Mafia or anything.

Hopefully will come back with fresh eyes. I will keep an eye on the thread, though, in case anyone gets any big ideas about lynching me.

For now, before fresh eyes, I'm looking at...

Epig - His comparing a recruiter in the game to 15 different roles with the name Santa Claus seems dishonest. Non-answers because of my sentence structure seems dishonest. Wanting to lynch 3J hard on Day 7, then asking the thread to change his mind, then changing his mind himself and leads the train on seaside. Feels odd. But since he did go hard after Mac, and even though it came from thin air he did lead the lynch on Floyd, prolly not Mafia. But let's also not forget he discouraged the Long Con lynch. Anyway, switching my vote from him today because I don't think anyone's going that way.

3J - My gut says Mafia. I didn't even think so directly after Mac flipped, I felt maybe 3J was played. But with the move away from him on Day 7 to seaside, I was surprised at that. To be real, 3J did paint Mac town all game. 3J was one of the last people to vote LC on Day 2, right? He did discourage Mac's lynch on Day 6, he and motel room were (sorry about to say this but) LITERALLY cheer leading people to vote for Diiny instead. On the day espers was lynched, I had my vote on MacD but wanted to move it so my vote would count, I asked where I should move it to and 3J said "If you trust me, move it to espers." Not that I'm blaming 3J for espers, lots of people voted espers, hell I suspected espers earlier in the game, but it seems weird to me for him to claim "If you trust me do this" but it doesn't work out. I think he ended up helping getting Floyd lynched if I recall, but I'd need to check the polls to see where he voted. However, I have had the vibe of "annoyed civvie" coming from him lately, and I can understand after rereading my own self. Won't vote here today.

Motel Room - Defends Mac all game. Tries to dissuade his lynch Day 6. Part of the seaside train Day 7. Instrumental in one of Floyd's many slips, but doesn't pursue it. I dunno, though, his voting record with 3J is very strange, but I have to agree, 3J voted after him in all of those polls, so if anything, most likely buddying up from 3J. Not voting here today.

Strawhenge - Floyd's "rival". This should absolutely clear Strawhenge from any and all wrongdoing (unless he's SK), and yet just like motel room, when Straw sees this slip, pretty much completely ignores it (until later in the game). Also, I can't can't can't stop thinking about him referring to Mac as MR and 3J's "scum buddy". IF you call him their scum buddy, you think they are scum. Yet he refused to make a difference in the close poll between Mac and Diiny, despite thinking of Mac as someone's "scum buddy". Weird. But, for now, I'm going to take Floyd's slip as an actual slip and not an orchestrated one (tbh I've never even heard of an orchestrated slip...one reason I think I'm getting a little nutty), so won't vote here today.

Ricochet. Rico baby!

Forget his so called slip earlier. Forget it. Gone.

Focus on the facts

Long Con insisted that if Bea or Rico turn up bad, we look at the other. This doesn't sound like painting two civs bad. This sounds like LC was planting a lynch of bea in case Rico ever flipped. We know Bea was good. If Rico is good, and LC knew that, why say that about "looking at the other". What's the point? If Rico flips good, then there's no point at looking at bea. If bea flips, there's no point in looking at Rico. So why say it?

Black Rock, early on in her sub while catching up with the thread, links to Ricochet's "LC's interactions" post twice, says she loves it, how helpful it is.

MacD asked 3J to stop pursuing a case on Ricochet and instead look at (civvie) Sorsha and (civvie) Golden. MacD asked Choutas to make a case on Ricochet and stop asking the SK to kill him. MacD seemed to like Ricochet. Then again Ricochet had MacD down as a green skittle twice, so maybe it was just that.

Ricochet did not want to lynch Floyd. Just didn't want to do it.

And as much as he tells everyone that he had no choice but to create a tie on Day 0, he picked the option that had zero votes, and it was the only option with zero votes. Were we able to fix it easily? Yes, but that's not the point. I felt then that he was intentionally making it harder for us, as I "scolded" him for it, and now coupled with the above facts, I feel it again.

Earlier I said "forget it", but now...add "But MacD hasn't voted for any teammates this game." and honestly, I could be wrong, but...

Ricochet

Good luck, town! Again, be keeping my eye in case anyone tries any funny business trying to lynch me, but otherwise, I'm keepin' quiet rest of day.

Peace!

Nah, Epignosis has been weird with his answers towards me the last few days, demanding that my grammar and sentence structure be perfect or whatever when addressing him.

But anyway, time to walk the dog.

Be back later...or not.

I absolutely care who gets lynched. As 3J can attest, I'm not liking this "Let's lynch Fuzz when he's gone" thing, however, I can see 3J's point to get baddies whenever you can.

As for the last few lynch phases, I'll kindly remind you on Day 7, I had my vote on scum Floyd, while you helped lynch civvie seaside.

If one of my fixations were to flip town, it would depend on which to see how I'd "wear it". If Epignosis were to get lynched and flip civvie, I prolly wouldn't feel bad considering he's been really weird with his answers to my questions.

If 3J were to flip civvie, I think I would feel bad, as he is the top poster in the game and whatever his alignment, has obviously put in a lot of work in this game.

If Fuzz flips scum, I'm going to look really bad, aren't I?

I don't get the smiley with "doubting Epig is Mafia"? What do you know? What do you know?!

motel room wrote:Matt, what's your plan for when one of your scum-fixations flip town? Serious question.

Right now, I think my current fixations are Epig, 3J, Ricochet, and possibly Eloh (even though her role is civvie)

With second tier going to Motel Room (you) and Strawhenge

Besides yourself, which of these do you disagree with and why?

Also, I have the strangest suspicion that the hosts have no intention of answering my recruit question.

Linki - Move on to the next scum-fixation, of course!

To be fair, I did hound him quite a bit, and as you pointed out, he started his game today which included sending out roles and answering my millions of questions.

However, I would be super happy if you'd like to join me in an Epig lynch!

	FZ	Will fight with understanding	A few aggressive demands, snappy lines and shooting down players' suspicions by invoking the "why would any baddie do that" viewpoint away from townreading her, but overall I'm feeling good about her.
	Zebra	I kinda like that style	Aside from getting a bit eyeballery lately, I stick to what I've said about feeling good about his activity.
	Mac	What's the matter with him? He's alright!	A two-Day hunt already against either removing low posters (his vote for rey D1) or removing undesirable ones (his seaside early D2 push) and his switch to Llama, with his thoughts on him dating way back on D1, raise me an eyebrow for now, otherwise I'd be lying if I'd deny that his activity doesn't give me an impressive town vibe.
	LC	I like this curious feeling	I sure hope he isn't "Scum Conning" and thus make me regret saying this later on, but I'm ok with his game so far. Whilst I'm not so confident it would have achieved the fishing results he desired, his bea gambit doesn't strike me as different from any baiting attempts players might try at this early stage; in fact, it's more developed than the usual bait & hook attempts I've seen. Some players are unnerved by how genuine his case seemed for a sec, but it doesn't give me the feel that it was anything but well developed.
	Roxy	She's gonna hold it, move it	Bantervotegate in the past, I see she moved to some mild, but serious thoughts, which read like regular Roxy to me so far.
	Bullzeye	Show me what you can do	No read until he's properly engaged.
	espers	Moon occults the sun
	Matt	I'm looking back	I really wouldn't mind hearing more from him on players' current activity, at least as much as he's making D0 connections
	Eloh	She must be having fun	Hardly involved so far - went for "selling" her vote D1 to the funniest poster (which was MacDougall), although she also mentioned a suss reason for Diiny which I'd like her to maybe elaborate further. That D1 caught-up-yet-not-adressing-anything post also pinged me a bit. Waiting to hear more from her, tough to discern right now if genuinely laidback or sidelining.
	Choutas	good kid, m.a.a.d city	Bit heavy on meta and such interpretations in his posts overall. On its own, if seaside will flip bad, I doubt a teammate would stick his neck for him so much - RYMers: is Choutas usually playful with this kind of thing? I've had no pings from him on Day 1 and still don't overall, although I'd say his D2 activity has dropped to slightly more wishy-washy posts and interactions.
	Sorsha	Who knows, who knows, what she's thinking	Some of her early thoughts (thinking sig "slipped", agreeing with B24 on BWT's vote) are pinging me, plus her BWT vote is clearly not stellar (but also seems like a typical sanction for BWT flip-flopping or something like that), but I don't get a strong read out of everything else. Her inquiry on LC's choice for baiting and her stance on not lynching players just for their undesirable status sound reasonable.
	motel	Who is it
	Epig	And the heat goes on	My initial feeling was also that Epig is quieter this game, but upon re-reading, that's not quite the case; furthermore, by saying he didn't step on anyone's toes yet, it still doesn't exclude the beef between FZ. and him having turned into that, as of right now. As far as I recall, when he goes quieter and players pick up on that, he always brings the argument that, technically, no one is ever satisfied with him, whether he's vocal and agressive or he suddenly cools it - and this particular discussion always reaches a sort of dead end, afterwards. The facts he brings in his rebuttals seem to check out and I don't think he was word-twisty with FZ, nonetheless I would once again stress that it wouldn't be unlike him to counter hard or to enjoy putting WIFOM or such up in the thread.
	JJJ	I got a question	I'll be perfectly honest, 9 out of 10 games, JJJ will probably disarm me with his posting volume and style; when civ, I can totally relate to it; if he's doing it as a baddie, it blinds me. That being said, his repeated questionings of what other players meant with their own suspicions did give me a slight ping, as if it's an added dimension to his inquiring that might come off as phony, since I don't recall it much in previous games. But not ready to rule on him.
	Golden	A big chief with a golden crown	My instinct has him right now at a status of not giving us enough as to feel like he's playing at his civviest. And it doesn't have anything to do with his RL hindrances or such; quite simply, out of all the big players, he gives me the feel of skating on the surface the most, currently. Furthermore, of all the players suspecting me, I'm still surprised, to say the least, of his meta-less interpretation of my defensiveness; granted, he's become more of an unfortunate spectator (i.e. getting lynched already, early on) by the time I heavily manifested these same traits in my recent previous games, still, I'd expect him to correlate this, instead of simply forwarding that my behaviour must be as plain as aggressively trying to turn the heat off me.
	sea	Cool down, stop acting crazy	His posts and reads up to his clarification/apologetic (?) statement seemed written whilst tripping balls, but now he appears to acknowledge them as such. Not sure I totally understand his "I wanted to get lynched" viewpoint (I mean, you'd still make us waste a lynch, regardless how beneficial you'd wish for your removal to be). His aversion to lurking it out (or to players doing that) is also interesting - I'd agree with some of the names he called out on (like RDW), but seeing as he dumped everyone else with minimal writing in there as well, I'll be curious to see if he keeps drumming on this policy lynching thing or develops his reads into much more in the upcoming days
	Llama	Facts are never what they seem to be	This gent has turned it very low on hunting (even for fishing purposes or on BS pings), which makes me just slightly curious if it's pure avoidance after his Recruitement debut where, as a pure-blood baddie, he BS'd everyone with one of his usual gambits. His hunch of K4J never being off'ed by a local also reminds me of how players filtered in Recruitement, after Typhoony was murdered N1, that a player who played before with him would never have done such a hideous deed (incidentally, it was Llama who killed Typhoony, but since he indeed had never played with him before, the "prediction" still came true). I wonder if it would be true in this case as well - aka an RYMer being K4J's murderer - or if Llama is just throwing such speculation in a cheeky way. Furthermore, it has to be noted that we're talking about a 7-member mafia that killed K4J; if Llama is really serious that no Syndicateer would agree to off K4J on the first Night, it's quite a strong and crazy supposition that the mafia team is strictly RYM comprised. I could technically lower him to a redder skittle for all of this, but I want to gather more info and reads on him before deciding whether to purse lynching him.
	bea	Same as she ever was	Little new input on D2, mostly on LC's "gambit". When LC announced his case on her was fake, she reacted in a playful manner, but since she returned during the Night, suddenly finding it odd that he would ever pick her. Perhaps an easy fine-tuning to the rest of the chorus that did not appreciate LC's moves? I don't think she understood too well my own suspicion on her either: I didn't imply she was steering the discussion into a "let's not give too much weight to D1 pings and such" direction, I said that I feel she pushed her credo ahead of any real activity and reads. Anyway, I still can't say that I trust bea much in this game, right now.
	rey	I'm not lost, but I don't know where I am	The more he stays in the game and plays nada, the more he'll give me the worst vibes, because of his Recruitement stunts. In Syndicate Mafia he subbed out when he (I assume) couldn't play anymore and I'm pretty sure he had a civ role there (although there's still some unresolved conflict around that particular issue), so why hold on to the role here? I mean no offence, but he should consider subbing here as well, if he's civ and can't play.
	Devin	Why, why, why, why start it over?	Not very focused posts and votes so far. Since he's repeating his votes so far (Diiny) I'd expect him to elaborate some more. That throwback post about how rey played as an SK, given that he more or less pulled the same card with a similar status, really doesn't sit well with me and gives me a bad vibe.
	MM	Takes a lot of time to push away the nonsense	Ugh. Getting tired of this feeling. I don't find that his posts have a lot of substance so far, he made his D1 vote based on "pingiest of pings" and has left today a vote adrift, because he'll go AWOL. What was his eyeballin' of Russ for, even? Russ said the Host warned him on participation requirements, not that anyone else via supposed BTSC did. Anyway, Marsh is being Marsh and whilst I probably need to take a break from being annoyed of Marsh being Marsh, I pretty much get nothing but bad vibes from him currently.
	RDW	Better ru- nah too easy	I guess we still need a Bass player, don't we? So far his posts seems like whole lotta waffling, with every major thought he came up with sounding more like a different culture mentality ("players should just post gut reads instead of elaborating"; "scum players would act tearjerky about the night victims" etc.) than some serious suss leads. At least in my view, of course.
	Floyd	...comes to town	Must be town. Seriously though, those ghost moves, I don't like them one bit.
	b24	Same as he ever was	AWOL since Day 1. My suspicion of him still stands.
	Wilgy	Doctor, doctor, tell me who you are	Until further development, same as I was saying. No me gusta his D1 vote.
	sig	Setting a bad example	Feeling much worse about him since the BWT vote, I still don't get what he meant by "them" in the context of HB being killed by one SK.
??????	Diiny	Flippy floppy	Holy shit, I was this close to green skittle him (just like on D1), until dat flip-flop on Wilgy.

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