The Syndicate

Dom wrote:

Long Con wrote:Well, if YOU read MY post then you'll see I didn't say that you think I'm bad.

Otherwise, I'm quite comfortable integrating a scathing diatribe about MP07's methods in with a post that began with answering you.

Well, you threw a lot of shade in that post. I see my name in there far more than MP's. You never actually indicted Mr. Sock of anything in that post, but rather, danced around an issue that left both me and MP open to attack.

You're being too sensitive.

Well, if YOU read MY post then you'll see I didn't say that you think I'm bad.

Otherwise, I'm quite comfortable integrating a scathing diatribe about MP07's methods in with a post that began with answering you.

Well, you weren't specific then... ask me what you want to know, it looked like you were doing "illegitimate baddie hunting", to use the apparent parlance of our times.

If there was a baddie to track down for Hedgeowl's death, then Snow Dog would be the one to go after, in equal amounts to Made. Right? I mean, it's a package deal. I just happen to believe that they're Civvie, this vouching is too bold for baddies to do.

You could point to Roxy, maybe she agreed too easily to switch from Made to Hedge. If she's a baddie, then in her eyes, one is just as good as the other if they're both Civ.

Were Mighty Rearranger's motives pure? Was it really something worth coming after Hedge for, just because some other people focused on her on Day One with no real suspicion? Maybe his vote was just a shielding ploy, like "look, I'm doing my own baddie hunting plan here, move along". It certainly seems to have met MP07's standards for who is doing "legitimate" baddie hunting and who isn't. (Unless MP is going after MR already and I have forgotten... pretty late here, going to bed, not worth searching out right now).

So there's some options for you if you're looking for someone to blame for Hedgeowl's lynch. I don't think those ideas are any less apparent than a play by play recounting was. If you thought there was something there, Dom, then why didn't you put forth these ideas? Is there someone in that list that you would prefer we not look at? Why make it my responsibility to think it out for you? Is that what "legitimate" baddie hunters do?

Ok, here's my turn to be Mr Legitimacy: Hey, uh, Sabie, what's your take on the Snow Dog/Made situation? DFaraday, was there a hidden motive behind Dom asking me to dig into the Hedge lynch rather than doing it himself? Simon, who sounds like a baddie to you the most out of everyone, gut response.

That'show you do it, right guys?

Made wrote:Re: the first LC quote.

Is there any other reasons you think they're on the same team beside the vote? I'm not finding anything on rereads, but i'm also exhausted atm.

Fingersplints trusted Roxy very early, and Roxy said that some people trust their friends more easily (as opposed to being a baddies using trust as a blind). Roxy and fingersplints are friends. I'm sure you can see how that could be construed as a baddie Roxy subtly clearing her baddie teammate from the 'truspect' charge.

How have I had a lack of baddie hunting?

I thought that MP was seeming like a baddie, so I came after him. I thought a Roxy truster might be bad, so I reread them. I found a connection that Roxy and fingersplints might be baddies, and I brought it up.

This is an untrue accusation of me. You expect more of me, I'm sorry, but I was busy for much of this game. You're just accusing me because I've been busy when you say I haven't baddie hunted enough. If you can't see that, then I don't think anything I can say will convince you, and you're the one(s) with tunnel vision.

MP, you are someone who is absolutely stuck inside their own head. Play my playstyle off how you want, you're doing nothing but justifying your pre-existing gut suspicion by interpreting what I'm doing so it fits your ideal vision of the game.

Lemme put it bluntly: you're wrong about me. Lynch me and find out, but I promise you it will just be another Civvie lynch.

What was the point then? You asked why hedge got lynched. I told you.

Dom wrote:lc why do you think hedge was lynched over made

A strange question to ask, it's like you wanted my opinion on the matter... but it's not a matter of opinion. It took me just looking back a couple of pages and reading.

Dom wrote:lc why do you think hedge was lynched over made

I'll tell you why Hedgeowl was lynched. MR wanted to put the spotlight more on her due to an exchange in the early game where Simon asked Hedge if she was good or bad. A few of us were like, "Yeah Hedge, answer the question", some joking hostility due to the Doctor Who game. MR put a vote on her as a "nudge".

Then Roxy and Snow Dog voted Hedge as a save of Made (Roxy trusting Snow Dog that Made is Civ)... they chose Hedge in a kind of "Uh, what do you think, uh, Hedge maybe? She's someone I am not sure about" way.

That was enough to save Made, then Black Rock came in and added her vote to the Hedge train "because she had to vote".

And that, Dom, is why Hedgeowl got lynched over Made.

Roxy wrote:

Long Con wrote:I'm not too suspicious of either Made or Snow Dog at this point. Looking more toward Roxy, fingersplints, and maybe Dom after a reread.

I may have worked out a couple of roles, need to watch and see. As for BR, I'm usually blind to her alignment so

splints is dead.

Oh yeah. RIP Splintsy, sorry I forgot you died.

I'm not too suspicious of either Made or Snow Dog at this point. Looking more toward Roxy, fingersplints, and maybe Dom after a reread.

I may have worked out a couple of roles, need to watch and see. As for BR, I'm usually blind to her alignment so

Um... was hedgeowl on the poll?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 81#p101581

Roxy wrote:Why ask splints about something I said?

Because she was there, and I thought it clearly pertained to her. I see you say otherwise.

Who do you think Roxy was referring to? (I'm still assuming my memory is correct and it was Roxy that said it.)

I have seen this accusation before, that someone "seems to not legitimately want to find baddies". It's always a sketchy reason, very gut-based, and I think it's probably really easy to decide like you think someone's bad, and then read their gameplay as illegitimate because of it... instead of the other way around.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Lol, well, no that's not baddie hunting anyone that's not me. I just mean your hunting has seemed forced and not genuine a lot of the time. I know that's hard to defend against though.

And it's not exactly because you're asking questions, it's more because you kept asking them without adding any of your own input or opinion on the matter.

I hate to be a broken record, but less input from me coincided with a busy time that we were very up-front about. So I can't help you there, I agree, I have given less input than I would have if it had been a free-time time of the year.

Your elaboration re: your trust of Roxy just doesn't make sense to me and elucidates my point. Do YOU trust Roxy? You sort of skirt the question. You're relying too much on other people's opinions, it's just strange.

I don't trust Roxy more than others, but I do like the fresh perspective she brought to the thread when she got unsilenced. After so much MP07-following wrongness in those lynches, I agreed with looking at another perspective.

And I have tried to to some back-reading to see if I could find a baddie, but the only thing I really see there is that maybe Roxy and fingersplints are baddies together. fingersplints was one of the big Roxy trusters, and I believe it was Roxy who mentioned something about 'trusting because of friendship', which originally led me to disregard splints as a "truspect".

"Genuine" baddie hunting... I guess that's classified as hunting a baddie who's not you, right MP?

The vote for Made was not opportunistic, it was made when I thought the lynch was a 24-hour one, and I had run out of time. The only reason I made a weak vote like that was that I really had no idea who the baddies were. I did intend to change it, but I didn't have a chance yesterday, I basically got up, went to work, came home, changed, went out for a birthday dinner for my niece and nephew, and went straight from there to play cards, getting home around 11pm, and the lynch was up.

The fact that would try to build a case against me saying I'm "asking the same questions over and over" just brings back my suspicion of you all over again. It's not even true. I asked Bass one time about his point of view on your out-of-control "case" that got him and FZ. killed. I asked it because I didn't want to wade back into the hundreds of posts you made happen to see if I could find it, figured I could get a fresh answer from him before just condemning him.

And as for my "trust of Roxy" that BR asked... I'm not the one who particularly trusts Roxy, that was half the players in the game. I saw nothing in particular that made me trust her any more than any of you, but apparently a lot of other people did. That kind of thing does affect my opinion of her. Then she came in from being silenced while Bass got lynched, with some angry words and fresh points of view, pointing at Made, Ambray, and... someone else as well I think. Without a solid suspicion of my own, Made got my vote due to his analysis of Dom, combined with the fresh Roxy accusation.

It doesn't mean I have any particular trust for Roxy, it meant I was willing to go with her suspicion because it was a fresh point of view that wasn't MP's death train.

Oops, I guess I misread the thing with Epig and BR, and I went away with the notion that it's a 24-hour lynch.

No prob, votes are changeable, and I'm not married to the Made lynch.

I didn't find much I thought too interesting in the Roxy trusters. Two were Bass and FZ., one was MP07, and then there's fingersplints, who is Roxy's friend.

I have to vote now because I have to go to work. I'm going to go with Made, partly because Roxy herself agrees with it, partly because of the strange analysis of Dom's play, which seems pretty normal to me. It's pretty weak.

I was thinking back over the game, and recalling a flood of trust for Roxy near the start. I thought it might be beneficial to track that trust a little, and see who fostered it, and who followed it. Seems like the kind of thing the baddies might want to get involved with on some level. It follows something I've been looking at for a few games now, the idea of baddies expressing trust in Civvies to get some cred.

There's one theory out there, that the order of the poll matches the order of the deaths. So I went with #2 on the poll.

I really doubt it's a rez poll though.

I doubt that the real Mack would just blurt it into the thread, Roxy.

And did you mean an excellent 'rez' candidate?

Made wrote:If i'm correct, this is a rezzie poll, as the number of people dead equals the number of racers/options.
Assuming there based on order, who would be the most helpful to bring back?

Bass would seem to be the most helpful to bring back, given that Mack protects the awesome Lightning McQueen... although I'm actually a bit suspicious of the role he came back as. There are roles that the Seemer (Miles Axelrod) would choose to appear as, and roles that it wouldn't be as beneficial to appear as.

I don't want to do the baddies' thinking for them, but Mack is one of the roles that the Seemer could easily choose to appear as. Bass' "slip up" could have been a genuine baddie slip, and he's just Miles Axelrod.

Llama could be a baddie, hard to say. Probably not worth the risk, when nijuu (Fillmore, not likely a Seemer because then the real Fillmore would just post-curse someone and prove the truth) and FZ. (Guido, risky for a Seemer to choose because of possible secret BTSC/role knowledge with Guido) are available.

FZ. was a better participator, and got ripped off by a wild sock... she is my choice for rez target.

Although I think the assumption that this poll will rez anybody is probably not correct, I will vote DJ in the hope that FZ. comes back.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I suppose it's unfair that I'm holding you to a slightly higher standard than most of the rest of the players (I think I am anyway), but I just have expected you to have opinions on more players by now. I'm the only person you've really been talking about. But I know you're playing another game too.

Not only that, but I (and BR) have made it pretty clear that the last week or so was very busy for us, and neither of us have been able to "bring our A game" to this one yet.

MovingPictures07 wrote:LOL, that's funny, I had no idea! I just thought, 'Wow, he responded to that FAST!'

LOL I just want to say, my last post was typed before yours, but you linkitised me. But it's like I answered your question. WOW!

I don't really see the case on Snow Dog. Is it just that he was "hopping around" on Day One? I think a lot of people were having fun on Day One, and I don't see that as making him seem particularly bad.

Made's analysis of Dom was interesting. I find that Dom can be aloof and impassioned in the same game, both those traits seem like familiar Dom to me.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Well I guess I voting snow dog. I think everyone who is voting for me needs to be looked at next lynch.

Did you speak at all about the accusation MP gave to you? I think you did, but please refresh me: did you know it was MP who was targeted? Did you know DFaraday could have been the target?

Like this post.

I already went back and forth on this with Bass for like thirty minutes yesterday.

What does this add? Nothing. Bass just can say whatever he wants to now, it doesn't change how he originally posted.

I read through that dizzying number of posts yesterday only once, due to the massive volume in a short time. Although I could remember a number of people, including yourself, calling out Bass for an explanation, I couldn't remember if he had given one before the lynch just turned on FZ.

I'm not trying to "add" anything, I was trying to decide how I felt about your case on Bass when I knew his side.

Anyways, I voted Bass because there was one minute left and he already has the majority of the votes. His explanation sounds reasonable, but it also sounds like what a baddie would say if he slipped up. So I guess we'll find out.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Well I guess I voting snow dog. I think everyone who is voting for me needs to be looked at next lynch.

Did you speak at all about the accusation MP gave to you? I think you did, but please refresh me: did you know it was MP who was targeted? Did you know DFaraday could have been the target?

Dom wrote:I thought my conversation with myself made it pretty clear why I'm likely wrong about MP -- he was targeted for a NK

Was it confirmed to be MP and not DF?

I don't know what to do about MP. It's possible he could be a severely mistaken Civvie, but the way he just threw Bass, FZ., and Roxy into the pot just based on Bass' suppose slip-up is just bizarre. Then the sig bet thing, which always makes me suspicious. S~V~S just made a sig bet over in Monopoly Mafia and turned out to be a baddie. I feel like it's a move designed to make everyone believe that you're Civvie, because no one would ever make a sig bet as a baddie!

I can see the case about Bass seeming to know that MP and not DF was targeted, has Bass addressed this? The thing is, if MP were the targeter, then that would explain why he would be the one to come up with the accusation. No one else caught it. Or he could be Chick Hicks, not caring who gets lynched. It would be pretty slick, and if he's not a baddie, I don't see MP getting NK'ed any time soon.

Indie character?

Dom wrote:MP, if you were so sure of Bass and a large part of your suspicion of FZ was predicated on her connection to Bass-- why not lynch bass?

Exactly what I was saying:

Long Con wrote:It's strange to me that MP's main case was based on a supposed goof-up that Bass made, and yet Bass got no votes and FZ got lynched.

Maybe MP was actually that overconfident that he had magically caught a whole baddie team, but it just smacks of convenience to me. Bass was the one who messed up, but that wasn't as important to MP as the fact that he saw that the thread would more easily go for FZ. The Civvie move would have been to lynch Bass first to be sure, since his alignment is the basis of the whole case, but not even MP voted for Bass.

Oh yueah, she's the Dinoco spokesperson for the first poll win, I recall. Yeah, no Frank connection there.

Maybe Roxy gets to be Frank

Everybody gonna vote someone different?

MovingPictures07 wrote:So because I took the game seriously and made a bet with someone, an action you don't agree with, you think I'm suspicious?

So be it.

If it makes you feel better to take what I said and say it in a different way, then indeed, so be it.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:To be fair, yes, I posted way too much and some of the posts are unnecessary. But I don't see why I deserve to receive a vote merely because I was actively baddie hunting when many others weren't. If you think it's because I wasn't being genuine that's another story.

It's not a lynch.

Well, it appears that way, but we don't really know what's going to happen, and it seems to have negative effects.

If there's negative effects, you should suffer them. I'd be happy to see you suffer them simply for making a sig bet at all. I'm really against sig bets, that, more than anything, makes me suspicious of you.

MovingPictures07 wrote:To be fair, yes, I posted way too much and some of the posts are unnecessary. But I don't see why I deserve to receive a vote merely because I was actively baddie hunting when many others weren't. If you think it's because I wasn't being genuine that's another story.

It's not a lynch.

Nothing positive about being caught by Frank. I'm voting MP07 for making me read so many pages just to catch up from being gone a few hours, only to find it was a waste of time.

Well, that was something. I doubt a Seemer would choose Guido, since he is likely to have secret BTSC with Luigi. At least that's what I assume, since they're joined at the hip.

It's strange to me that MP's main case was based on a supposed goof-up that Bass made, and yet Bass got no votes and FZ got lynched.

Don't really get FZ voting for me for something BR did, but maybe I need to re-read it. Going into work now, voting MP.

I was surprised to come back into the thread and see all the votes on nijuu. The poll looked very different from the one I had last seen. I don't think it looks like a save of Llama though, who only had two votes when nijuu got four in a row.

I don't agree with MP that Snow Dog's case sounds forced at all, it's a possibility. It wouldn't be the first time that I've seen a baddie bring up something in the thread that they were hoping someone else would have noticed. I've done it myself before... a night action or lynch reveals something that the baddies wanted the Civvies to be misled by, but no one brings it up! It's very frustrating.

MP's immediate 'no u' vote is what raises my eyebrow more.

Snow Dog wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:I don't know if you guys are dense or pretending to be dense.

What are you talking about?

I don't think players will appreciate being called "dense" either.

This whole I didn't realise there was a kill attempt thing. Really? Is it so hard to follow? I don't know if I understand what motive you would have for pretending to not understand though.

I knew there was a kill attempt. I didn't realize who the attempt was targeting.

MovingPictures07 wrote:So I just now realized that the mafia tried to kill either me or DFaraday last night, based on the poll's question.

Interesting. Looking back at the post, I see that was written into the story, I just didn't put it together then.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I do find it odd that LC said he'd leave his vote on me because he "didn't feel the need" with Ninja ahead of me in the votes. But I'm more likely to give him a pass on it than sabie.

Yeah, that's all I've got so far.

Thanks for the pass, I don't know why you said you find it odd. Maybe you need me to explain "didn't feel the need" a little better. I threw a vote on you to help prompt you to check in, not because I wanted to see you lynched. If I had checked back in and seen that you were going to be lynched, I would have moved my vote like I said I would, because you gave me a reason to. Since you seemed to be out of lynch-danger, I didn't think there was a point, especially since my catch-up on the thread was a big skim in which I saw some actual suspicions forming. I didn't have time to weigh in and analyze this new development, so I stayed with what I had.

Maybe I don't find it odd because I lived it, but there's nothing really odd there. Busy times, busy day today, I'll be more able to participate after the next couple of days are over.

Totally missed that night poll. Congrats on being the new Dinoco spokesperson, Roxy, you get to ride in the helicopter and everything!

Like BR, the next day or two is very busy, so I won't be around too much. Mostly late at night EST, I'd say.

Hey, I haven't been around much, and I didn't move my vote off BWT because by the time I would have gotten around to moving it (since BWT gave a reason to), ninja was already at 4 and BWT at 2, so I didn't feel the need. It's not a baddie ploy, just been busy the last few days with a large catering job coming up on Friday.

I'll join in the BWT vote for now, until he tells me why I shouldn't.

I am also very interested in Hedgeowl's answer.

Voted Rip! Game on!