The Syndicate

You avoided my question.

An observation about the frequency of Canuck's posts, right?

nijuukyugou wrote: 2) I think LC's sudden turn on llama for a comment I thought was rather innocuous to be...odd. I've seen other people accuse players of only being on when it's convenient and possibly being in a chat, so...not really understanding why THAT happened to be the comment that set him off. Is there more to the case than "That's what a baddie would say!" LC? I'm curious

There is more than that, bloop, that's like, the last thing I said to him. I suspected him back in the early game when he claimed not to know the meaning of the phrase "you would know", and the accusation of Canuck having btsc because of Llama's analysis of her posting frequency, which I think is not a realistic thing to say, and therefore must have other motives driving it.

How does Llama know how Canuck does btsc enough to even attempt to.make that call? Is she a back-and-forth kind of player, jumping between chat and thread? Is the the type that leaves the forums altogether to engage in btsc? How much time is a reasonable estimate between posts to indicate baddie btsc? Is there a formula? How did Llama come to this conclusion? Does it really sound like a genuine suspicion, or a contrived one to serve a purpose?

Splints, you got the wrong idea... I was more focused on Canucks posting style, and I only brought Llamas posting style into it as a segue from talking about her style into the accusagt. The accusation was that llama has been mudslinging, basically, not that his posts are a certain way. Sometimes he does short, terse posts, sometimes midrange humorous, sometimes in-depth analyses.

thellama73 wrote:
Long Con wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Hedgeowl wrote: I am a little surprised at the turn around LC has done from SVS to Llama, after not suspecting him.
You and me both, sister. I seem to have touched a nerve.
You did indeed, it was my baddie-sensing nerve. I've been watching you all game and you seem to have the majority convinced you're Civvie, but Civvies don't need to twist things to put a negative light on people in a mudslingy kind of way like that.
If that is indeed what I did (which I deny) then civvies DO do that, since I am a civvie.

Baddies and Civvies alike say "I am a Civvie", so sorry if that defense doesn't blow my skirt up.

thellama73 wrote:
Hedgeowl wrote: I am a little surprised at the turn around LC has done from SVS to Llama, after not suspecting him.
You and me both, sister. I seem to have touched a nerve.

You did indeed, it was my baddie-sensing nerve. I've been watching you all game and you seem to have the majority convinced you're Civvie, but Civvies don't need to twist things to put a negative light on people in a mudslingy kind of way like that.

How you say things is important. You didn't bring up Canucks posting style and really analyze why it was the way it was, you looked for something you could stick to her to get people suspicious of her. That's baddie behaviour.

thellama73 wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I missed your thoughts on Canuck, Keterman. Now that I go back and look at them, they are astonishingly astute. I've been increasingly suspicious of Canuck this game as well. Her posting pattern alone indicates someone who spends most of their time in a chatzy and occasionally pops in to contribute when needed.
I feel like she has been very active (but that is probably because she keeps wanting to discuss me, haha).
She has been active, but there have been long pauses between her activity, as one would expect from someone who checks into a chatroom before posting.

Or maybe Canuck's posts are generally long ones, big blocks of text, multiquoting masterpieces , and that takes more time to get into the thread than , say, someone who just throws short accusations out there to see what sticks, to see if he can get some people to go along with it. Like you.

I think Canuck is being surprisingly cool about you doing it to her, actually.

Dana had it right with her post against him, and he just deflected it with a "no u" post to put her on the defensive. His reasons for suspecting people have mostly been trifling and contrived, and this last one against you takes the cake.

LoRab wrote:One of the reasons I play in this extended community is because, historically, we don't call each other scum. I'm really not liking that not being the case in this game and it's making me not want to post.

Also, since when is "meta" a dismissive term?

I see "scum" as a fun and funny term. I call my 1-year-old schmuck on a daily basis. Sometimes "Scummo".

thellama73 wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I missed your thoughts on Canuck, Keterman. Now that I go back and look at them, they are astonishingly astute. I've been increasingly suspicious of Canuck this game as well. Her posting pattern alone indicates someone who spends most of their time in a chatzy and occasionally pops in to contribute when needed.
I feel like she has been very active (but that is probably because she keeps wanting to discuss me, haha).
She has been active, but there have been long pauses between her activity, as one would expect from someone who checks into a chatroom before posting.

Ok, you just crossed the line. That's ridiculous, and I done believe that anybody ne really trying to find a baddie would sink to that level. I have been seeing this for a while and kept quiet on it to lay low, but I don't believe at all that you're Civvie anymore.

Frankly, from what I know and what I've seen, you have done nothing but unapologetically hunt Civvies this game, and I don't want to see anymore.

Voting Llama now.

That was my understanding, Canuck. I was going to say what you said.

S~V~S wrote:EBWOP:

I knew that no matter how Made turned up, LC & Llama would come gunning for me.

(I knew something was wrong with that sentence, it kept chewing at me. took a while to figure out)

You shouldn't have expected anything else from me, because my suspicion of you never involved Made at all.

You're barking up the wrong tree on that one, Llama. I really just asked that as a conversation piece. There werer any intentions at all with it, just taking a different angle on the game. I didn't expect you to avoid it, and I certainly didn't expect you to retreat into paranoia about it. It was just a casual question.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Well Long Con, looks like you were right. I believed you, but even if we had the time, I think it would have been too late to change everyone's votes.

I'll be on tomorrow morning to chat.

Agreed, and there was so much doubt surrounding the whole situation, we couldn't just let him go. Feels off that you'd say you "believed" me... I didn't know anything, it just seemed like it was still a good possibility. What are your next moves here... Suspicions?

thellama73 wrote:Bea, my next suspicion after SVS is Long Con because of this post.

After that, I had a ping on Dana, but looking back at her posts, I can't remember why. I also find Canucklehead suspicious, and I feel like I haven't seen her around in a while.

I just realized, looking at the player list, that I don't have very strong reads on almost anyone else, so I will do some vote analysis and rereading tomorrow to see if anything sticks out to me.

Would GOD offer such a strong alignment hint if he actually had info? Or is he just guessing? I can't decide which is more likely.

Is S~V~S God? Is God likely to be a Civvie role?

Am I allowed to ask questions like that? Hosts, can you clarify? Everyone is afraid to talk about roles at all, and I'm sure you don't want to stifle important game conversation and such... Right?

Llama, can you go over again why asking you your opinion on the lynch is suspicious?

juliets wrote:So my favorite color or favourite colour is blue, specifically a purpleish blue. My second favorite color is purple.

Indigo?

None taken, S~V~S!

S~V~S wrote:DisPor did the poll, it says "favourite colour", not "favorite color". It is spelled the Canadian way.

Mine is aqua.

Yes, it is spelled the Earth way, minus the United States.

Mine is indigo, followed closely by aqua.

I love suspicion, I live for suspicion. Llama is cool in my books, I have no plans of turning on him. He's riding my coattails on the S~V~S suspicion anyway.

S~V~S wrote:So I have one set suspecting me for backing off of Made, and one for not cutting hinm enough slack, is that it?

Like I said, I think there are two baddie teams.

I suspect you for reasons I have made clear... Others catching up to that is just... Validation.

thellama73 wrote:
Long Con wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I still think he was bad and nothing will convince me otherwise.
So you're in S~V~S' camp, and believe he was some Seemed type... How do you feel about her now?
Oh she is a Baddie McBadderson all right.

Agreed.

thellama73 wrote:I still think he was bad and nothing will convince me otherwise.

So you're in S~V~S' camp, and believe he was some Seemed type... How do you feel about her now?

Well Danny, Occam was right. I thought he might have been playing it cool on the Lancelot front in order to save himself from immediate nightkill.

Either that, or he was a Seemer.

I'm not hedging my bet, I'm just saying it's still likely you're Lancelot, and are denying it to protect yourself from night kills. But I'm not at all confident that I'm right about that, and I'm done thinking about it.

I don't expect any accolades or anything if I'm right.

Votes Made.

I understand that Made has to be lynched, but if there were wagers on the outcome, I would put a small bet on him being the Civvie role that A Person's lynch alludes to. A small bet, as in I'm not super confident, but I still kind of think it.

Too much reasonable doubt though.

S~V~S wrote:
There are the persons I am on record as saying I thought they defended Made fairly aggressively:

Enrique
LC

I did?

thellama73 wrote:My ego refuses to let me believe that SVS would not have recruited me, so I think you are the recruiter, Made.

Hey guys, remember the last time Made was up for a lynch and he totally weasled his way out of it? Yeah, let's not let that happen again.

I think SVS would recruit me very early. She knows it would be fun on a bun!

Who would you recruit first, S~V~S, Llama, Made, or good ol' LC?

Dana wrote:
Made wrote:Please note that the game i did freak out in, Misfits, was more like this because I freaked out after being jumped on by 3 people at once, then I flipped Civvie. JS.
You bringing this up is quite fishy, Made. "Hey guys I'm acting the same and I was good then so I'm good here" Hmm...

This sounds very familiar... didn't I say the same thing to S~V~S?

Well, this is quite the turnaround on S~V~S. I think you all know where I stand on the topic.

RIP MR... sucks to lose Sir Galahad.

And Splintsy, it is very exciting to play a game with you again! Will Keys come and join sometime?

S~V~S wrote:LC is far from stupid, Made.

Thanks, S~V~S, support appreciated!

I know that you will understand that my voting for you at this time only reflects my belief that you are a baddie in this one, all the while glad to have you as a friend.

Going to work very shortly, see you after the lynch!

Made wrote:
Long Con wrote:Even if it were as you described, I don't see me basing my team's voting plan on Llama's Opinion. I hear you're a smart guy, Llama, but I don't know that I would place that much faith in your opinion.
Don't play this game unless you REALLY know what your doing or REALLY don't.

It's gotta be either genuine stupidity or calculated stupidity to work. Trust me I'm stupid.

I thought it would be understood by the fact that it is immediately preceded by "Even if it were as you described" that I was referencing Llama's postulated reality. In his theory, I am a baddie with a team that are waiting on his opinion to cast their votes.

thellama73 wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Long Con wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Long Con wrote:When I get a chance, I want to go over Made's case on MR... I might have done a tl;dr on it the first time, and I feel bad since he said it took him hours to put together and it has gotten little response.

Who do you THINK will be lynched today?
Not to get all metaphysical on you, but I believe in free will as opposed to determinism, so I don't think that is predictable. The person who will be lynched today is the person the most people decide to vote for (barring any more lynch switchy monkeyshines.)

Why did you ask that question? Seems a bit weird.
I asked because I asked it of myself and didn't know. There's been Metalmarsh talk here and there, and of course Made, and I think there's some MR lynch proponents out there... but right now it seems like a pretty unpredictable lynch.
Are you looking for a bandwagon to hop onto before it forms?
I was going to hold off commenting on this until after the lynch, but I have a lot to say about that post, and since you pointed it out, I might as well follow through.

It is such an odd question, the only reason that immediately spring to mind for asking it is a baddie deciding whether to throw a teammate under the bus. If Made's lynch is a sure thing, his team will want to get in with early votes to make themselves look good. However, if the lynch is considerably in doubt, they won't want to move too quickly. I think it makes LC look really bad.

I'm not looking for a bandwagon, and I'm not looking for an early vote target. I'm sorry you find the question so odd, I was just being conversational.

Even if it were as you described, I don't see me basing my team's voting plan on Llama's Opinion. I hear you're a smart guy, Llama, but I don't know that I would place that much faith in your opinion.

thellama73 wrote:
Long Con wrote:When I get a chance, I want to go over Made's case on MR... I might have done a tl;dr on it the first time, and I feel bad since he said it took him hours to put together and it has gotten little response.

Who do you THINK will be lynched today?
Not to get all metaphysical on you, but I believe in free will as opposed to determinism, so I don't think that is predictable. The person who will be lynched today is the person the most people decide to vote for (barring any more lynch switchy monkeyshines.)

Why did you ask that question? Seems a bit weird.

I asked because I asked it of myself and didn't know. There's been Metalmarsh talk here and there, and of course Made, and I think there's some MR lynch proponents out there... but right now it seems like a pretty unpredictable lynch.

When I get a chance, I want to go over Made's case on MR... I might have done a tl;dr on it the first time, and I feel bad since he said it took him hours to put together and it has gotten little response.

Who do you THINK will be lynched today?

Or, you know, talk about other people.

I'm getting sucked back into The Made Show a bit here. We do need other talk, you're right.

thellama73 wrote:Frankly, at this point, the only chance I think I have at understanding this game at all depends on knowing Made's role. I am going to cast my vote for him now. I have to know!

What understandings will you gain from his lynch? Extrapolate, if you will... "If Made is lynched and is _______, then I will believe _____" Or something to that effect.

S~V~S wrote:
Long Con wrote:
S~V~S wrote:So, my theory is also about a role possibility. And the thing that kept popping into my head was DharmaHelper in the first recruitment game being a seemer role. He came up as a mystery civvie role; in that game, not all roles were revealed immediately. So a role no one ever heard of was a possibility. And it allowed the baddie team to claim a role that no one else had, so no one could dispute it. It also got his teammates tons of cred, as I recall it, although I could have that wrong.

LoRab wrote:I also thought of the possibility of a seemer role. I had the first seemer role, so it always goes through my mind. But I'm not seeing how it's the case here. I'm also confused. You're speculating that Made might be a seemer-type role and baddie teammates switched the lynch and are possibly setting up for what role they've chosen? And would that have just meant they got lucky with who they chose for the lynch?
Ah, my Seemers. The first Seemer was in Mafia: A World Apart (sequel coming soon!), and it was Lorab. I'm so happy with the role-type taking on the name. Someone should do a baddie team that are all different kinds of Seemer.

Well, S~V~S, I've had my share of suspicion of you, I think we can agree. Let me tell you what this sounds like to me, and let me know if I'm crazy to come up with this possibility.

In my scenario, you are a baddie, and you think it's more than likely Made will turn up Civvie... so you had better sow a seed of doubt a la Seemer into the mix. Then when you turn up with your fingerprints among the many others all over his lynch, we are supposed to think "Maybe he wasn't King Arthur/Sir Galahad/Sir Lancelot/whatever... he was probably a Seemer!"

S~V~S, I'm sure you can see that this conclusion isn't isn't overly intricate. I'm also sure that there's assumptions you will challenge to show the weaknesses in the idea. But there it is, so just don't be surprised that you're still one of the more prominent names on my lynch list. MAFIA, am I right?
I was waiting for someone to make this post

What I am saying is we should NOT lynch Made; unless he flips bad, we learn nothing and spent the rest of the game arguing over a speculation. I think we should lynch someone in his circle of trust and see what happens. Becasue him being a Seemer is the best explanation I can come up with for that circle of trust. The same people keep coming in to shore him up; you, Enrique, Canuck. But why? That is what I am trying to solve for. I thought early in the game that he & Enrique had civ BTS, but both have pushed against each other, which civ BTS partners would not need to do. You have a fairly constant low level protection of him going on, and you & Canuck seem pretty simpatico. Then she is the biggest proponent of the Lovers thing. I was wondering which of the three of you would make this post. Not too surprised it was you.

Running late today. Not sure what I plan to do just yet, votewise, I had less time this cycle than I would have liked, that pesky family

I won't be voting for Made.

Interesting. I didn't think I had a "constant low level protection" going on for Made, are you sure about that? It must be subtle, since I didn't make Made's list of people who support him.

If you are actually a Civvie who believes Made is a Civvie, then maybe you should consider that Made retaining some suspicion on him is a good thing. However, if he were lynched and flipped Civvie, I disagree that "we learn nothing etc." like you just said. I don't think the idea that he's a Seemer is worth considering, because a) it's a lot more unlikely than likely, and b) it would involve a lot more ideal coincidence considering A Person's role, and the recent lynch. If he's lynched and flips Civvie, then I'm not going to spend the rest of the game on speculation that he was a Seemer.

Dana wrote:
Long Con wrote:
LoRab wrote:
Dana wrote:
S~V~S wrote:The conjecture is that perhaps AP & Made were the Lovers~ Lovers roles have a connection. The commonest one is if one of them is targeted/lynched, the other dies, and in this game Concordes character would work pretty well for that.
This would also make a lot of sense for why AP would vote for himself if it were Made that would die instead? Also Made answering yes to Juliets' question makes me think this is even more likely.
I come to the opposite conclusion from these same facts.
Ha! That is a beautiful response Lorab.

I don't see why AP voting for himself would enter into a Lovers arrangement.

There's the concept that a lynch switch can only go to a person with a vote, and there's the concept that Made's-role-that-no-one-will name-celot was under a Lovers-style protection from Concorde. I'm having difficulty understanding Dana's post with that in mind.
What I meant by that was if AP knew that Made getting all the votes would mean he dies, maybe he voted for himself in hopes to bring his votes up enough to save himself and kill Made. But with Made saying now that he's not completely certain and only thinks he knows how he was saved, I'm not sure this idea holds much weight, if any.

So, a "Worst Lover Ever" kind of situation?

Is it possible Made could be that role and just not know the movie, and so not understand the context? Or is that far-fetched?

LoRab wrote:
Dana wrote:
S~V~S wrote:The conjecture is that perhaps AP & Made were the Lovers~ Lovers roles have a connection. The commonest one is if one of them is targeted/lynched, the other dies, and in this game Concordes character would work pretty well for that.
This would also make a lot of sense for why AP would vote for himself if it were Made that would die instead? Also Made answering yes to Juliets' question makes me think this is even more likely.
I come to the opposite conclusion from these same facts.

Ha! That is a beautiful response Lorab.

I don't see why AP voting for himself would enter into a Lovers arrangement.

There's the concept that a lynch switch can only go to a person with a vote, and there's the concept that Made's-role-that-no-one-will name-celot was under a Lovers-style protection from Concorde. I'm having difficulty understanding Dana's post with that in mind.

I think I missed Made's denial, that seems like it's an important thing. When was that? Sometimes catching up on the phone, you miss things.

Made wrote:
Long Con wrote: In my scenario, you are a baddie, and you think it's more than likely Made will turn up Civvie... so you had better sow a seed of doubt a la Seemer into the mix.
I've considered this, but it's just SVS has been so on point all game. Every point she's made seems easily, or at least logically derived. However, her being the most best player on this website, i have to suspect this is an act, given a very well played act

Well, being able to do that is, like, a prerequisite for being the best, as she certainly is.

S~V~S wrote:So, my theory is also about a role possibility. And the thing that kept popping into my head was DharmaHelper in the first recruitment game being a seemer role. He came up as a mystery civvie role; in that game, not all roles were revealed immediately. So a role no one ever heard of was a possibility. And it allowed the baddie team to claim a role that no one else had, so no one could dispute it. It also got his teammates tons of cred, as I recall it, although I could have that wrong.

LoRab wrote:I also thought of the possibility of a seemer role. I had the first seemer role, so it always goes through my mind. But I'm not seeing how it's the case here. I'm also confused. You're speculating that Made might be a seemer-type role and baddie teammates switched the lynch and are possibly setting up for what role they've chosen? And would that have just meant they got lucky with who they chose for the lynch?

Ah, my Seemers.

The first Seemer was in Mafia: A World Apart (sequel coming soon!), and it was Lorab. I'm so happy with the role-type taking on the name. Someone should do a baddie team that are all different kinds of Seemer.

Well, S~V~S, I've had my share of suspicion of you, I think we can agree. Let me tell you what this sounds like to me, and let me know if I'm crazy to come up with this possibility.

In my scenario, you are a baddie, and you think it's more than likely Made will turn up Civvie... so you had better sow a seed of doubt a la Seemer into the mix. Then when you turn up with your fingerprints among the many others all over his lynch, we are supposed to think "Maybe he wasn't King Arthur/Sir Galahad/Sir Lancelot/whatever... he was probably a Seemer!"

S~V~S, I'm sure you can see that this conclusion isn't isn't overly intricate. I'm also sure that there's assumptions you will challenge to show the weaknesses in the idea. But there it is, so just don't be surprised that you're still one of the more prominent names on my lynch list. MAFIA, am I right?

Mister Rearranger wrote:I'm gonna have to vote soon, since I'll be driving out to Buffalo at 3 and don't wanna miss the lynch.

Poll ends tomorrow.

Not bad, Juliets, it does indeed seem as though Canuck brought up the idea first. I could say that it's baddieish of you to try and propogate such a notion, but I'm going to give you a break for now, and I will look elsewhere for my suspicions.

Juliets, thanks for the quote there. Dana's theory lacks something that your theory has, and it's that part that pings me. Her idea is talking about Made on his own - that he's being crazy because he was crazy in Misfits and was a Civvie, so the "cover" is for himself - he can easily have a comparison drawn to his Civvie behaviour in Misfits.

Your theory that he was being crazy to distract attention away from his baddie teammates is what strikes me as suspicious, because it just doesn't make sense to me. His craziness just as effectively draws attention away from every other player in the game as well - unless his baddie teammates were ALREADY under scrutiny, then acting crazy to save them works. But I don't see that as the situation, and I don't think you do either.

So, in essence, your theory seems to me only to be an exercise in suspicion-mongering against Made, trying to get the idea out there that he does indeed have baddie teammates, trying to put into our minds that his playstyle is based on that.

I don't think

is insulting, I think it's good for showing frustration.

I have bobbed for apples. I wouldn't now because, well, germs.

Still on the fence about Made... Canuck's theory could be correct, but it could just as easily be a baddie Made, hitting the right guy to lead us all down the yellow brick road, maybe forever. Enough people have also expressed doubts that I have to cast my own in with them in agreement.

I get what Canuck is saying, for what it's worth. Thanks, Google!

Sorry for the non-response, Juliets. I had actually typed a response on my phone that was basically "That's interesting, if anyone could show me an example because I can't really read back right now", but it got linkitis'ed without me realizing it. It wouldn't have mattered because I didn't really get to check in until I just caught up now.

RIP A Person. I've seen plenty of Civvie roles that can switch a lynch, and probably ones that can reflect a lynch once or something, so I don't find the situation to be instantly incriminating to Made. However, the way he has been acting since then is a bit sketchy, as several people have pointed out. I'm gonna have to say that Made will likely get my vote. It doesn't look like he'll need it to get lynched anyway, but there you go.

We haven't gotten Concorde's role revealed yet.

Hey, last day of this weekend's fair, gonna vote for Juliets now in case I'm too busy later.

Still suspicious of svs, but so many people seem to be saying she's their top Civvie contender, that I'm not going to waste my time pushing that for now.

LoRab wrote:Hi!!!!

So sorry I haven't been around!! I had to be at camp with a bunch of teenagers for part of the weekend. Back now. Still catching up. I'm here, though!!

Good luck, Rabster!

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