The Syndicate

zeek wrote:You're misrepresenting me, Dom.

You could be either, as we don't know who recruited MM. You have brought nothing to the table since MM's rezz. You're in stealth mode. Those lynches are telling.

I have to admit, it's hard to say no to that moustache!

As for my vote, I will hold off till tonight, and I'm not telling who I'm voting for yet. There's several compelling cases out there. I want to avoid any CyberHead vote shenanigans, so let's all be careful about spreading it out too much!

And I used Elohcin because she was the most recent unknown role death... I don't know if going back to the one before her would help. And no, I'm not trying to hint that Long Con 1.0 was The Ood. If he had been, I certainly wouldn't touch this DFaraday hint with a ten-foot pole, I'd leave it to the rest of the thread to decide. Just didn't want people to start "seeing where I'm coming from" in an erroneous fashion.

juliets wrote:For the moment the only one I've rules out is DF. He role claimed a specific role and i think he wouldn't take that risk unless he really was that role. It's just too risky unless you are that person or you know for sure that person is dead. I'm not sure how he would be sure about that role unless he was a Dalek with a dead role checker which we know he was not.

Long Con wrote:I'm with you on this, is there a reason DFaraday can't be a Cyber? Who rolechecked, say, Elohcin, and then killed her to claim her role? Did he hint before she died?

keys56000000000 wrote:Haha, you guys crack me up.

I don't want this game to devolve into who hints and who doesn't. Not judging anyone that hints, I've dropped a few myself, I just feel like this has been a good game and it'd be a shame to essentially force a cheap win.

Yeah, I agree. You hinted? :o You hinter.

Me?

S~V~S wrote:

Long Con wrote:Why is that assumption being made?

Cause Epi said so?

Oh ok.

Black Rock wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:BR who are your top suspects and why?

I suspect DFaraday. Something weird happened last night that I can't find how it would happen so I am still unsure about him. I also suspect Epig and Dom. Dom is actually my main suspect for The Master. I just can't pull anything together to support my gut feel on that.

There ya go!

Why is that assumption being made?

I hope that whoever has Strax's player pegged, or thinks they do, won't let us lynch him. I don't have a clue who it is, just who it's not. I don't want anyone to respond to this, just... I don't want to lose Strax.

Black Rock was also killed by The Master very soon after stating that she thinks Dom is The Master, but has no proof.

Thought that might factor in.

Long Con wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

S~V~S wrote:He's not gonna tell you.

Is that a strategy I don't know yet?

Not really the way to get votes. Why can't Epig be The Master?

Damn non-linkitis posting! Fail, site! Fail.

Hedgeowl wrote:

S~V~S wrote:He's not gonna tell you.

Is that a strategy I don't know yet?

Not really the way to get votes. Why can't Epig be The Master?

On a separate note, are the Cybers trying to kill The Master? They have recently killed two people who have survived a nightkill, Long Con 1.0 and Elohcin.

Epignosis wrote:

Dom wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Dom wrote:I am not the Master, Epig.

Super.

So Nijuu is then?

I don't have as many roles squared away as you seem to, so if that's what you have deduced, then yes.

Do you want to know how I know nijuu isn't The Master and that you're telling me a story?

*leans forward intently*

keys56000000000 wrote:Let's play a BSG game next, yay!

I think at this stage of the game, throwing out a role hint is an acceptable risk. After all, there's a good chance later in the game that the role is dead. And who knows, maybe by some recruiting btsc jiggery, DF knows The Ood (thanks Hedge ) is dead. I would say The Ood is a convenient role to pretend to be, since it's a lone civ, but there is the potential that someone targeted the Ood, had the action reversed back on them, and they therefore know who The Ood is. Because of that extra element, I'd personally be against pretending to be that role. I'd risk hinting at another. Idk. In this particular case, I feel 60/40ish that the hint is genuine.

I'm with you on this, is there a reason DFaraday can't be a Cyber? Who rolechecked, say, Elohcin, and then killed her to claim her role? Did he hint before she died?

^ the* error

because I know you were all so very confused.

Yeah Dom, there error made it looks like Chris was sarcastically bitching us out for blowing off the question... in reality he was unsarcastically thanking us for not blowing it off.

I'm getting confused about the DFaraday role hint. I looked up what I thought he was getting at, and my research led me to two names of Civvies, both of which are Companions and would therefore have satisfied MP07 when he checked DF last night.

Maybe I'm not looking in the right place, but I'm having a devil of a time with this. I don't want to out a civ DF, and I don't want to press the issue so hard that a role hint turns into a role claim, so if enough people say "don't worry about it" I guess I'll drop it.

Chris wrote:

Long Con wrote:I never said the question wasn't important. I said I wanted to hear the answer and that others should stop trying to silence it. Why you say this about me?

LOL! Shit... "not" .. not "now".

Sorry.

Ha! I see, that was funny. You're welcome. Yeah, Dom will. Better put out a big sign for him or something.

I never said the question wasn't important. I said I wanted to hear the answer and that others should stop trying to silence it. Why you say this about me?

S~V~S wrote:No one else thought that?

That is exactly the answer that I almost posted as "It's probably this" but then I held off to see what you'd say.

People the recruiter would be most likely to want to recruit: Chris. MovingPictures07. Right?

I don't think Chris is derailing anything. I want to hear S~V~S' answer as well, and I don't believe she is the recruiter because both MP07 and BR said that that's not possible. I still want to know the answer. It shouldn't be a big deal at all. I think you other guys don't need to get involved, it's Chris asking S~V~S a question. Like, it's an A-B conversation, so y'all should C your way out of it.

Chris wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Chris, GIVE IT UP.

She's not the recruiter.

So, I shouldn't be interested in how she knew that about Mickey's role?

It's not that hard of a question...

I'm interested too... I'd like to see what she says about it.

I'd like to ask a question out of general interest, Snowy or hosts or whoever can answer. Mickey's role says he "absorbs" a night action whether the coin flip is heads or tails. Does that mean that Mickey was immune to night actions no matter what? Just curious to know how much it sucked to lose him on one hand, and being glad he's not "in the mix" for NK survivors when we're trying to narrow down The Master. Hell, glad to be dead myself! First me, that is. At least we know I wasn't The Master. phew

Ha ha, okay, I'll just sit back and watch this role hint business play out.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Yes, I don't understand why he would drop this line if it didn't indicate something. So I tried saving you last night, DF, and it didn't work.

I thought so. Good to know I wasn't way off base and out of touch.

As I said, there is a possibility this means DF is a noncompanion civvie, but I have all of those roles pegged by other players.

If he's a non-companion Civvie, then it's not a blatant role hint, any more than saying "I'm a Civvie" is one.

Unless...

I don't watch Doc Who, besides a short stint with the Fourth Doctor back as a lad. Could the "blatant role hint" have been... show-related?

If not, then it seems like DFaraday just latched on to MP's suspicion of a role hint, and went with it hard despite there not being a real one. Then he'll get my vote. I want convincing blatant role hint proof.

Whoops, I mean thank you Chris. Weird, in the linki update I thought it was DF somehow.

Chris wrote:Does the Doctor only save companions?

When I read it, I just took it as the Doctor saves lots of people's lives. Is that not the case?

Chris is speaking of reading DFaraday's post where he said something about "I'll be another Civ the Doctor failed to save". Linki: Thank you DF, yes, that's it.

Chris, I was searching all DFaraday's posts back to Friday for the "blatant role hint" that MP said he saw (and tested?) and DFaradfay confirmed. I found nothing I could construe as a role hint, and that comment was the only thing I found that seemed like it could be charged with some extra meaning. You (despite several claims to the contrary) are still doing diligent detective work, can you see the blatant role hint? Do I need to read through again?

MovingPictures07 wrote:HOLD THE FUCKING PHONE.

DFaraday is probably the Master. That is not what I was expecting.

Now there's a really small chance for error, but I don't know. I thought he was hinting at something yesterday and it turns out it's not true.

The hint was "another Civvie the Doctor failed to save" or something like that, right? And you checked to see if he was a Companion and he wasn't?

As for my thoughts, MP... pretty simple thoughts. I've already indicated that I think the Snow Dog thing has legs. I am a bit wary about keys' defense of him. Could they be Vastra and Jenny? Sort of seems that way with the way keys is acting. I don't want to out anyone, but I just wanted to put it out there.

MovingPictures07 wrote:But Elo was not Strax.

If Elo-Strax had targeted Dana and it got reflected back on her, then Elo could have been Strax. But that didn't happen.

Maybe you, Doctor, have some other reason for believing Elo had a different role, but Chris' theory isn't impossible. But it is wrong.

MP is right about Dana/me. Elohcin was wrong about Dana/me. I hope Strax will be killing on Night 12, Dana did not reflect a Strax kill back on Elo.

Strax probably did us a favour by removing MM so he couldn't influence us in some psychological way, even though as a role he did not seem that threatening. Let's hope Elohcin was a recruit!

Keys, I read that post very carefully already. I'm looking at it right now. Just because his posts CAN be interpreted on an individual basis as innocent or misguided... well, that's to be expected. He's not OVERTLY defending Bass, and yet it remains a subtle theme throughout his posts. That's how it looks when a baddie defends their teammate.

keys56000000000 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:keys, I only posted every single one so that people could make up their own mind. They're not all notable.

Feel free to disagree then. Sig bet it is.

Ok, but LC characterised it as SD casually defending Bass, and together one could get the false impression that SD really did defend Bass all those times that you quoted, when most are out of context. I would urge LC to take a closer inspection of the evidence put forth against SD.

Snowy specifically does not suspect Bass in most of those posts. He casually suggests that Bass would survive further lynch attempts. "Bass, I have read his posts, and I don't see it" "I don't know about Bass, but..." "Certainly not enough to warrant a vote(from me anyway)" "Yes I found that post. I see nothing there..."

I was once called out for saying nothing at all about a baddie teammate. I was rightly caught as a baddie for saying too little. My point is, little things matter, and the tone of all these posts regarding Bass are reading to me as just the kind of casual "defending without really defending" that I believe is a baddie tell.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I happen to like MP's signature.

Here's hoping you also like elderly swingers' sites' ad banners

My great grandma turns 100 in April. She didn't get that way by being a swinger or falling for scams.

No, her thing was threatening trespassers with a loaded handgun. Which she still sleeps with under her pillow.

You remind me of Dwight Schrute when you say that.

Snow Dog = Chris Traeger
Epi = Dwight Schrute

?

Too funny! That was so Dwight Schrute.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I realize I have no credibility on the subject, but I don't suspect Snow Dog. He posts like that normally.

Posts like what? Are you referring to MP's quote-gathering, where he literally defends Bass casually a whole bunch of different times?

LC, you just made my night.

I only just watched the P&R video, and now I can't stop saying it... and my mind is adding it to posts I read, to jazz them up.

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I mean adverbs, damn it.

I usually use adverbs rarely, but occasionally I'll cautiously slip one into the conversation in a sneaky fashion.

-2 points for not going OTT with "sneakily".

Epignosis wrote:I realize I have no credibility on the subject, but I don't suspect Snow Dog. He posts like that normally.

Posts like what? Are you referring to MP's quote-gathering, where he literally defends Bass casually a whole bunch of different times?

zeek wrote:Bass wasn't recruited. Dunno where this leaves us.

I wasn't counting on him being recruited for any reason but to explain the lynch save that never really happened. I would like every lynch to be a recruited baddie like Roxy, but you can't always get what you want! Glad to have Bass gone just to avoid Strax having a fail on him.

A Major Significant Change?

Works for me. I'd still like to see Bass lynched... but let's see what Strax does in the meantime.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote:

Chris wrote:keys & MP, what would you opinion be on where to proceed if Bass came back as a recruited Master, once lynched?

My guess is that The Master can't be recruited, and at any rate, I don't think Bass is The Master. But I firmly believe Bass will come back bad, and then I say we look at the other people we suspect. My suspects remain the same, I say we lynch DF next.

And I completely agree about ignoring MM. He hasn't given us any infomation on this recruiting team, which is more worrying than reassuring.

What do you want from me? I can only tell you so much without breaking rules, and I've tried dropping hints.

Wouldn't that work against your win condition?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, I laughed at the exchange between keys and LC last night as well. Good stuff, guys.

Don't leave out MM! The originator of the deluxe funny!

keys56000000000 wrote:Generally in games there is a "princess/mayor" role that can switch one lynch per game and stop one. A switch on its own could have been a prize, but a switch and stop, used on the same player at that? It's got to be a princess role, all signs point to one of the ??? secret roles. Who knows the allignment, but it could very well be our mystery Recruiter.

I agree, because it would help balance out the lack of kills from that recruiter.

What if Bass is a recruited Cyberman? It's practically assumed by all now that Bass is a Cyberman, but then how does he survive lynches so well? If it IS like Fight Club and the Recruiter got Roxy and systematically recruited the rest of the Cyber Team, then maybe the lynch shenanigans Bass has benefited form are a thing that the Recruiter has built in to their role to make up for no night kills.

From that perspective, killing Bass would give us the double-win that we got when we killed Roxy: a Cyber dead AND a Recruit dead in one shot.

Thoughts? Is that possible?

You can be right about game-related things, and wrong about how to act. I don't think I said anything about whether your opinions on the game and who is bad are right or wrong. As zeek said, I agreed with you about a number of things before Long Con was killed, and probably a lot of those things haven't changed.

There are two separate issues being conflated into one here.

One issue is whether you are right or wrong about who is a baddie and who we should lynch, and what our plan going forward should be. My opinion is that some of your theories are right, and some are wrong. I have already given the nod to your fantastic amount of detective work in this game. Some of it proved to be good, and some of it proved to be wrong. I don't think there's a problem with that. You could be 100% wrong right now about who is bad and who is recruited and what the Civs next move should be. And that's fine, you would just be a part of a long line of wrong people in Mafia, just like the rest of us are sometimes. Maybe you're part of the completely right line of people, which would be awesome.

The other issue is the way you are playing the game. You have clearly upset people here and there for a long time. You upset Dom recently when he asked for your opinion on something, and you posted a joke instead of answering him. Was the joke funny? Yes, I love a good Airplane reference. And you upset Dom and didn't care to even understand why. I'm not going to go back and list ways that I think you were insulting or petulant or rude, because I don't think that raking you over the coals is going to help you understand what I'm saying. I just want you to take a breath and see things from that perspective. My impression is that you feel backed into a corner by a lot of the negative feedback you have received, I just want you to separate yourself from it and understand why it's happening.

It's not about your opinions on the game, it's about your delivery.

Chris wrote:LC, it's ok for my theories and thoughts to be ridiculed and called retarded, but me putting a "derp" hurts your feelings?

I didn't call you retarded at any point in this game. You putting a derp means I'm being a simple-minded idiot, right? Like, that's what that horse(?) thingy is supposed to imply, right? Yes, that hurts my feelings, because well, I was not being one.

I suppose I'm still not clear on the proper etiquette here in this site. It seems to be "Give it, but don't take it."

I think that the proper etiquette here isn't a site-based thing, it's just general, life-skills etiquette. I don't understand how you can be told so many times, by so many people, and yet you still just believe that the way you act is fine and everyone else is wrong.

I was excited about you replacing in. Game related excited. Then I see that post from you, and I became less excited. It has absolutely nothing to do with who the hosts chose to replace Dana.

I'm not sure why you qualify the "game related excited" thing, or why my post would make you less game related excited. I think maybe you are taking my post as some sort of tightly-held opinion about How Things Are And How They Will Go, when I clearly made it known that it was just a start, something that I want others to analyze and change and clarify INTO a stronger forecast or plan.

You say I didn't account for things. I say you didn't. You left out the recruits. I say that's extremely short sighted, and ignores a very real thread. Your numbers leaving out the recruits makes things look a lot less scary. And that's ok. Players who don't want to keep up, and do their own research will just take what you and/or The Three Amigos say as fact, and vote the way you guys do.

I did not leave out the recruits. I specifically talked about the recruits, and then after your first response, I referenced you to where I specifically talked about the recruits. The recruits are even there in my forecast. The second Civ that died, say, and the third Cyber. They were recruits. The recruits aren't a separate team, they are us. They are the baddies, they are the Civvies. They will die instead of Civvies sometimes. They will die when we lynch a baddie sometimes, like they did with Roxy.

I was dead when that Three Amigos thing was posted. I chuckled at the GIF, and didn't realize it meant that three players are supposed to be the Amigos. Who are the Three Amigos in this game? linki:discussed while I was typing

Now so will I. You should be happy!

It doesn't matter what I think anymore, since either all of my theories are "retarded", or just not listened to.

So I'll be a good little go along guy, and see this thing out to it's bitter end.

Uh oh, more fear mongering.

But don't get mad guys. Since I can't win, I'm just going to have a little fun, k?
So, I give up. I'll be

You are making yourself into a victim here. I certainly didn't do that. I'm not buying into this passive-aggressive "you should be happy" crap either, it means nothing game-related to me, it just factors into who Chris the person is.

Welcome to our first installment of "Things Chris Doesn't Think About".

Chris wrote:LC, you have to take recruits into consideration.

Long Con wrote:That's obviously an oversimplified version of things where recruits aren't taken into account. And unless the baddies and Indies are all in cahoots, then some of those Civvie deaths could just be Recruit deaths, or Master hits from the Cybers.

Chris doesn't think about the fact that I already gave a nod to the fact that I didn't put recruits into that quickly-done numbers forecast.

Chris wrote:8 civs, 3 Cybers, 1 Master, 5 recruitment team

After night 10:

7 civs, 2 Cybers, 1 Master, 5 recruitment team

After day 11:

7 civs, 1 Cyber, 1 Master, 5 recruitment team

After night 11:

5 civs, 1 UNKNOWN Cyber, 1 Master, 5 recruitment team

After day 12:

You say last Cyber dies, but who is it? Playing along with your scenario... let's just say we SOMEHOW find the last Cyber.

5 civs, 0 Cybers, 1 Master, 5 recruitment team

After night 12:

4 civs, 1 Master, 5 recruitment team

Do you see where this is going? Sure, I'm allowing that there were no kills on the recruitment team. But, your scenario isn't even showing us going after the recruitment team. All the targets are against the Cybers, and The Master. By the time we're done addressing them, the game will be over with the recruiters having the majority.

Chris doesn't think about the fact that the recruiter also recruits non-Civs, so 5 recruits, 3 Cybers, and 1 Master could be 5 players total, leaving 12 unrecruited Civs in the game. The truth is almost definitely somewhere in between.

Chris wrote:

Great plan LC.



So much for me being pleased that LC replaced in...

Chris wrote:But HEY! Let's concentrate on everyone BUT the recruiters, right LC??!?

Chris doesn't think about the concept that acting like people are stupid, even real life friends, hurts their feelings.

This is what thick-skinned looks like, Chris. I had a bunch of stuff I thought about typing, "he was a dick to me so I'll say THIS and hurt his feelings back!" but I'm not going to do that. Take notes, my friend.

Thank you for taking my late night, hasty tallies and going further with them, Chris. That's what I was hoping people would do. I wasn't providing a "plan" as you said, and I wasn't saying that this forecast was how things are, or how things are going to go. I was just putting some numbers out there to see where we might end up, to begin to plot some sort of road map. To go through some different scenarios to see which one leads to a more likely Civvie victory. To see if it would actually make sense for a non-Civvie to NEED to kill a different non-Civvie.

I'm disappointed that you're not happy that I replaced in. You were the one that complained very loudly and publicly that the hosts weren't doing a good enough job policing Dana, and this is their solution. If you have a problem with it, you should probably PM them, because last time you complained publicly, you upset and embarrassed bea.

And just so you know, I'm not stupid. I'm not . I did not disregard the existence of recruits. I just don't have any idea how to find them. I don't think the proposals to find recruits put forth in the thread thus far have been convincing, I think a lot of them are based on assumptions that have no basis, and are therefore not sensible.