The Syndicate

I'll put a placeholder vote on FZ as well, we'll figure this out later.

Devin should be on the poll.

Welcome back, DFaraday!

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Meh, I think Captain Boomerang is dead anyway.

An interesting perspective.

Sophie wrote:Im fine too with 24 hour days

Well vote timmer, right?

If he's not targeted by Wally West tonight, it currently seems very likely that he will be lynched tomorrow.

Captain Boomerang is an Indy in this game. I went Boomerang.

Totally, that is perfect, 24 hour days no prob!

Clearly FZ has screwed up her powers, and ended the day late.

Sophie wrote:Mm, why did you change your vote to yourself?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Linki: Just in case timmer, or anyone else, had some last minute shenanigans.

You tried to kill me Sophie.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Long Con wrote:If we were all New Rogues... then this game would be over already, wouldn't it?

Well who's got the nightkill? :P

Yes... so there's still a chance!

If we were all New Rogues... then this game would be over already, wouldn't it?

Why did you switch your vote away?

I mean an Indy we think died was not an Indy? And that's messing with the math on who could possibly be alive?

Maybe someone we think is dead was the Mirror Master?

Devin's survival is as valid as my own... and as for the lying thing, maybe there's something we're missing?

Heh heh... "my" vote... Scottish ancestry comes out when I get uptight.

Wait, what's the question? Should I switch me vote to me?

That result is truly the best way to go, my friends.

All I'm asking is that you give me a chance. If the game doesn't end when Timmer dies, then by all means, open up this discussion. Just don't kill me before letting me try to win with you guys.

The places I would have looked have diminished. I think rabbit was bad, I don't think you are (although ending the day early with MM's blessing would be a nice confirmation), I certainly don't suspect MM any more, Sophie's cool, BR I am sure is Indy, and Devin reads very Indy as well. I really think that the game will end with Timmer's death.

I think the main thing with Devin is that Timmer seems to be legitimately trying to take him down. Why wouldn't he just go after me instead? I don't think the game is at a point where the baddies can afford to throw a teammate under the bus, there's too many known Civvie roles out there.

I was also reading Devin as an Indy. A good Pied Piper check target though.

Note that we may have lynched the Mirror Master at some point without realizing it.

Not Barry "The Llama" Allen
Doubtful that it was Bass 1.0/Double Down since there's been no cursing (although we have seen long cons like this already, haven't we?)
Possibly blindfaeth, and the real Golden Glider was NK'ed at some point
Not Aces/Professor Zoom, or he would have killed Llama (or it's a long con hide out ploy)
Maybe MovingPictures, but would he have been saying the "crazy stuff" he was saying if he'd been an Old Rogue? Maybe?
Not DREAM Grodd. That kill passed on, Grodd was the real deal.
Maybe Turnip Head? I feel like that's doubtful. I feel like a reread of recent times when he was alive would not read like he's Mirror Master. Just my recollection-feel, I didn't reread his posts.
Soneji is definitely a possible Mirror Master. We have no other evidence that he was Abra, but then again the lack of evident Kadabra effects could be a telling link to Soneji.
Not S~V~S.

So maybe blindfaeth, outside chance of Bass 1.0, Aces, MP07, Soneji...

Just wanted to get that stuff laid out as a reference point. Mirror Master may have been fingersplints for all we know.

FZ. wrote:Would there be a point in saving a power to end the day early to another day? Or should this day just end already

I don't think it makes a difference. If you want to prove yourself by ending the day, then why not end it at a time when it's convenient for you? Currently, the crossover point is somewhere around midnight-1am EST, here in Ontario. If that works for your convenience, leave it be, if not, then you can change it! It's your power, why not benefit a little?

Except it wouldn't make sense for a baddie with a kill to not use it, especially at this point. Night 8, 9, 10, the only kill was Wally's. If someone - anyone! - had received the Top's kill, then it's probably a Civvie or Indy. There's a few juicy options out there for a baddie to kill, and the noose is closing in fast for the New Rogue team. On the flip side, a Civvie or Indy would be more judicious with the kill, not wanting to hit the wrong person. Plus, the Host did not announce that the kill passed on from the Top, like he did with Grodd.

It doesn't make sense to "deceive everyone else into thinking there are even fewer New Rogues than there are". We know for a fact that there are one or more New Rogues out there. If we saw a kill, then we would still know for a fact that there are one or more New Rogues out there. I don't get your thinking here, is this what you think baddies would do?

I think the Attack Drone was clearly piloted by a baddie, because it took out the Confirmedest Civ, Llama. I think it's likely that it was an Item... as in the killing Item has already been used, and we haven't seen it again. Actually, reading the post again, it self-destructed after killing Llama. Probably a one-use Item, if that's what it was.

Linki: LOL, FZ, why - are you actually Zoom, and are going to "protect" MM tonight? I want to answer, I would like the power of lynch immunity. Like BR and Timmer have - it's a solid power at this exact point.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Anyone who thinks that timmer is Zoom, and not a New Rogue should come in and make a case for another player being a New Rogue. There is a minimum of one New Rogue left, and probably at least one more after that. If it isn't timmer, then who is it?

I still think we should No-Lynch and let Wally imprison Timmer tonight, and if he survives (as Girder, which I believe he is) then we lynch him tomorrow. If the game ends, we party. If not, then we lynch someone else. Wally seems to be the only one left with a kill. I don't really see the downside to that plan. You may not really care if we kill off some Indys on the way to the end, but brother - I care deeply about that subject.

Everyone who is left in the game at this point has played a good game - they are participators, they are invested, and they have put a lot of time and effort into this. No one deserves to die just because we can't hit Timmer today.

I don't put as much stock in "genuine-sounding" as I do in, say, vote records, or interactions with known lynched baddies. I really don't remember what FZ's history is like, I feel like she has been playing a low-key game.

Well, Bass and Devin both showed up. What happens now? The way I see it, there are 5 lynch possibilities (3 available) and the number of New Rogues in that group depends on how many New Rogues have been nightkilled compared to how many Indys.

Living Players:
Black Rock
Metalmarsh89
Long Con
FZ
Sophie
Elohcin became Timmer on Day 1
BirdwithTeeth became Bass 2.0 on Day 3
ika became Devin the Omniscient on Day 3.2

Lynches
thellama73 - Lynched Day 1, Barry Allen, Rezzed Day 3.1, when the day restarted, killed Night 7 by an Attack Drone from an unknown killer
Bass_the_Clever - Lynched Day 2, Double-Down
blindfaeth - Lynched Day 3.2, Golden Glider
AceofSpaces - Lynched Day 4, Professor Zoom
reywaS became MovingPictures on Day 4 - Lynched Day 5, Rainbow Raider
Made became DREAM on Night 4 - Lynched Day 6, Gorilla Grodd. Kill inherited by The Top.
Day 7 - Lynch vote tied at 4 between MM and Timmer. No one was lynched, likely that MM lost the coin flip and was unlynchable as Pied Piper.
Turnip Head - Lynched Day 8, The Top. Kill seemingly not inherited.
Soneji - Lynched Day 9, Abra Kadabra
S~V~S - Lynched Day 10, The Trickster
Day 11 - The Pied Piper messages the thread for the first time since Day 4.

Nights

fingersplints - Killed N1 by Grodd
DFaraday - Imprisoned N1 by Wally West
Epignosis - Killed N2 by Captain Cold
Roxy - Imprisoned N3 by Wally West
DharmaHelper - Killed N3 by Captain Cold
Bullzeye - Killed N4 by two separate parties. Grodd? Plunder? Item?
Night 5 - no death, shortened by Weather Wizard
Spacedaisy - Killed Night 6, The Top (?) tried to kill someone who was boobytrapped by The Trickster, and the kill bounced back, bounced off Top, and randomly killed SD.
Night 7 - Wally West tried to imprison someone who was boobytrapped by the Trickster, and survived the bounceback due to his role. The Top attempts and fails to kill Girder.
Night 8 - No kill. Darkness envelops Central City, perhaps causing the blind lynch on Day 9.
rabbit8 - Inprisoned Night 9 by Wally West
Night 10 - No kill. Black Rock and Timmer are removed from the Day 11 poll.

That could be true. Peid Piper sure nailed that trick.

Devin the Omniscient wrote:

Long Con wrote:

timmer wrote:@LC, here's the situation. I really hate saying this, but it's the reality. The detectives, whether they realize it or not, have aligned themselves with the New Rogues. Either their win conditions have changed somehow and it is deliberate, or they are just really misreading the not-always-true info they get, but whatever the reason, the very people who have the power to take out the NR's at night are actually voting with them consistently in the game.

So Long Con, if you are indy? It makes most sense to just go with the flow. Vote for whoever MM and Sophie say to vote for, and just win the game. Just like SVS, and apparently just like FZ, I'm frazzled by the confusion of what is going on here. I don't understand why people are doing what they are doing. And i won't be able to figure it out. I know 100% who at least one NR is, but no one believes me. So just end it, man. You get the win no matter what. But when the detectives have EVERYTHING backwards, and the New Rogues feed that delusion, the end is a foregone conclusion.

You had the answers, LC, and you've let yourself get blind-sided by complete outright lies. But luckily for you, it's all good.

Well, "it's all good" is relative. Metalmarsh still wants to lynch me today, and that is "all bad" from my perspective.

And I think Zoom is dead.

What makes you think that? Did you have someone else pegged as Zoom?

Nope... but:

Zoom (????????) – He thinks he can make all the other heroes and villains “better”. Each odd night he will Protect one player. That player will be randomly rewarded or penalized as well. If Zoom protects Wally, one of Wally’s teammates will randomly die.

I really believe that Zoom would have found Wally by this point, and the Pied Piper would be dead. But he's not!

timmer wrote:@LC, here's the situation. I really hate saying this, but it's the reality. The detectives, whether they realize it or not, have aligned themselves with the New Rogues. Either their win conditions have changed somehow and it is deliberate, or they are just really misreading the not-always-true info they get, but whatever the reason, the very people who have the power to take out the NR's at night are actually voting with them consistently in the game.

So Long Con, if you are indy? It makes most sense to just go with the flow. Vote for whoever MM and Sophie say to vote for, and just win the game. Just like SVS, and apparently just like FZ, I'm frazzled by the confusion of what is going on here. I don't understand why people are doing what they are doing. And i won't be able to figure it out. I know 100% who at least one NR is, but no one believes me. So just end it, man. You get the win no matter what. But when the detectives have EVERYTHING backwards, and the New Rogues feed that delusion, the end is a foregone conclusion.

You had the answers, LC, and you've let yourself get blind-sided by complete outright lies. But luckily for you, it's all good.

Well, "it's all good" is relative. Metalmarsh still wants to lynch me today, and that is "all bad" from my perspective.

And I think Zoom is dead.

Turnip Head wrote:Hi yes hello I'm Bass

Yes! Bass, what do you think of the current situation? Why are people off the poll?

Excellent... I now summon... Bass the Clever!!!

We still have a day and a half, hopefully they'll make an appearance. Still lots of time.

FZ. wrote:

timmer wrote:

Long Con wrote:

timmer wrote:I didn't think TH was the top at the time, I thought he was Wally. And I f forgot all about it once the lynch happened, TH flipped bad, my brain moved on, because why assume abaddie targeted a baddie? Contrary to what some people say, im often NOT smart and I often miss the obvious. Combine my posts from that day with the hosts own pay, it's clear as day and I missed it. But lc made me realize it!

I don't quite believe you thought TH was Wally West. Or that you just forgot about your "theory" until now, how do you just forget something like that? This feels like you're grasping at straws.

I have gaps in my memory sometimes.

Remind me again why you thought TH was Wally?

I don't think it will be a "reminder" so much, because this seems to be the first time he brought it up.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Come back to us Bass!

He's been posting all week in Economics Mafia, but not since Monday here.

timmer wrote:I didn't think TH was the top at the time, I thought he was Wally. And I f forgot all about it once the lynch happened, TH flipped bad, my brain moved on, because why assume abaddie targeted a baddie? Contrary to what some people say, im often NOT smart and I often miss the obvious. Combine my posts from that day with the hosts own pay, it's clear as day and I missed it. But lc made me realize it!

I don't quite believe you thought TH was Wally West. Or that you just forgot about your "theory" until now, how do you just forget something like that? This feels like you're grasping at straws.

FZ. wrote:I'm asking because we now know that SVS was an OR. We're still left with the theory which would allow only 1 OR to be a live. How do we resolve that? Because I really want to believe you, but there is evidence against you

If Timmer got answers to those questions from the host, then you can get them too. Why not just ask MR? He'll tell you anything he told Timmer, surely.

I just looked back at Day 8, and the Timmer-TH interactions are a good read. This is just after TH tried to kill Girder and failed, or so the "crunching steel" and non-death in the nightpost leads us to believe. I think TH may have tried to kill Timmer for distancing, and discovered to his surprise that he was a fellow New Rogue.

Day 11 already has shenanigans for the lynch. I don't know if it's on a three-day schedule.

Good night.

Everyone sounds genuine to me. What do you think of making this a No-Lynch, letting Wally do his thing tonight, and picking it back up tomorrow when everyone is on the lynch poll?

I need to go to bed too. Please don't kill me in my sleep just because Timmer isn't available. Just give me the benefit of the doubt here. I have had no way to 'signal' people or show what my role is or prove it. My power is weaksauce, I took a chance on some map BTSC with rabbit, but otherwise I have met up with nobody. I don't want to get default-killed just because I haven't roleclaimed, that's bullshit. I'm not a New Rogue.

Let's pick this up after a night's sleep. Please.

Linki: That was an awesome night. Items from dead players reflect the players' role ability, I have discovered that. And there are items that can be used repeatedly, and items that can be used once. I can definitely confirm that fact.

timmer wrote:Sophie s been gunning for me, youve been gunning for me, but the evidence is right in from of you. I called svs or for using her night action on the wrong night. No new rogue can do that. Find me one.

LC, you think there is an item that tela you someone was using a night action ? If I am bad, why did I fought so hard to get answers out of MR about it? I was the one trying to SAVE her. Some big master long con... long con?

I've seen an item that can teleport, an item that can protect, an item that alter lynches, an item that can render you undetectable, and more. It's pretty reasonable to think there's an item that lets you spy as well.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

FZ. wrote:MM, how sure are you, given that the information could be true or false?

Look, I feel like I'm pushing the boundaries pretty far right now as far as rules go, so I will not answer this question. But considering the Pied Piper is pretty much Pro-Old Rogue, I think he is worth trusting.

The Piper or Wally may have simply found the Mirror Master's body. That is not subject to True-False shenanigans.

timmer wrote:

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:

FZ. wrote:OMG, first, I knew it!! I was right about the detectives trying to lay low!

But sadly, I a lot slower when it comes to the message. Does it mean Timmer is lying? I didn't get the two roles that were discussed in the message

It means that Timmer is lying. Timmer must be a New Rogue. And he's off the damn poll today!

You have followed the bouncing ball for too long to suddenly think I'm lying. There is no way I could know SVS had used her night power on the wrong night unless I'm exactly who I've alluded to being. You know this. Pied Piper says he is certain, but the info he gets is NOT certain.

Spoiler Alert!

You could have gained that info through an item instead.

Again? You tossed that vote before any of this started today.

Is it a good plan?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Actually, I would rather lynch Long Con today. I don't understand why he put his vote on me just now, after it was on Sophie.

Because you won't die.

MM, I am not a New Rogue. Please don't do this. Let me offer an alternate solution.

Pied Piper – A part-time Rogue who’s going undercover to help Wally and Barry. He cannot be lynched unless Wally is dead. He is given information every night by an informant that may be true or false. Each day, he can post a message about his findings.

We need to put the votes on YOU, Metalmarsh... end the day then, and start the night, where Wally can kill Timmer (or at least attempt to, given that he may be Girder). If that doesn't end the game, then we can move on to another lynch and sniff out the last New Rogue. If the kill fails, then Timmer is Girder and we lynch him.

The only kill left in the game is Wally's. We don't have to be so brash, I want to see this endgame very badly, please don't execute me. You don't need me dead to win.

Linki: oh.. so you already thought of that plan.

I really don't want to make a mistake and lynch someone who is not a New Rogue. The margins are too thin.

FZ. wrote:OMG, first, I knew it!! I was right about the detectives trying to lay low!

But sadly, I a lot slower when it comes to the message. Does it mean Timmer is lying? I didn't get the two roles that were discussed in the message

It means that Timmer is lying. Timmer must be a New Rogue. And he's off the damn poll today!

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I've got a pretty good idea of what the message is saying. What about you guys?

It is crystal clear to me, like an unmuddied, reflective lake.

The tied lynch... you lost it...