The Syndicate

agleaminranks wrote:I am voting kneel4justice. I will provide further rationale coming soon.

Would have been nice of you to provide rationale before the vote, but okay.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm not averse to the notion of lynching an element. The town win condition clearly states a need to "destroy the Process", and having these elements available in the lynch poll would seem to indicate there'd be a valid reason to lynch them. It's crappy that we don't actually know what we're stuck choosing between Snapshot and Operator, both mysteries -- and I maintain that the name of the role is meaningless, that has had no bearing on the abilities attached to them so far (Young Lady has a ghost, Cell has no real vote, Weed has a negative vote, etc... it's all quite random). I don't think it should be Luna since that's not even one of the elements in the OP.

If we think about it in terms of the actual thread content provided by each, I'd suggest Snapshot seems less trustworthy than Operator given its push against DrumBeats. That strikes me as self-serving and pro-Process.

I'm not sure. Snapchat seems to be providing us with more information than the other elements, in terms of what the process could actually be - as it has quoted players who are not visibly in the game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:I'm thinking that these sock-puppet accounts are run by different players who aren't on the sign-up list (Golden, birdwithteeth, Roxy, etc) and that these players have access to a thread that no one else can see - which is where these snapshots are coming from. Maybe the longer the game goes on, the more elements/players are added in....so it is best to lynch the process elements earlier in the game. What isn't making sense for me is, the process must be 1 of the 17 original players since there were 17 roles..I'd think that it would make most sense to need that player dead rather than the sockpuppet accounts??

Anyway, I definitely don't think that the ISO on DrumBeats is valid. I think it comes with an obvious agenda. But certainly Roxy (I am just going to assume for now that she really wrote that post) would have known the ISO would not come with an actual lynch outcome. So that doesn't quite make sense.
Also, with the above being said, I'd also disagree that JJJ is running the sockpuppet accounts.

What don't you like about the ISO on DrumBeats, and why don't you think I'm running the socks?

I think the ISO is coming from a member of the process.
I also think it would make sense for the members of the process to want DrumBeats dead. Especially now, since it would appear that Drumbeat's original plan/offer for the mafia to kill an element and then the town to lynch an element is happening.
Also, the part of the ISO that suggests DrumBeats could be the process just looks to me that the ISO is bias/unreliable and that the account was doing anything they could to paint DrumBeats as suspicious.
But that is also making me wonder if this is some kind of reverse psychology, because certainly this sock puppet account should know that we would not take the ISO seriously.

I do not think you're the sockpuppet accounts, because as I stated, I am thinking the sockpuppet accounts are being run by players who are not on the original sign-up list....did you even read my post?

I'm thinking that these sock-puppet accounts are run by different players who aren't on the sign-up list (Golden, birdwithteeth, Roxy, etc) and that these players have access to a thread that no one else can see - which is where these snapshots are coming from. Maybe the longer the game goes on, the more elements/players are added in....so it is best to lynch the process elements earlier in the game. What isn't making sense for me is, the process must be 1 of the 17 original players since there were 17 roles..I'd think that it would make most sense to need that player dead rather than the sockpuppet accounts??

Anyway, I definitely don't think that the ISO on DrumBeats is valid. I think it comes with an obvious agenda. But certainly Roxy (I am just going to assume for now that she really wrote that post) would have known the ISO would not come with an actual lynch outcome. So that doesn't quite make sense.
Also, with the above being said, I'd also disagree that JJJ is running the sockpuppet accounts.

Dang. Sorry, Nutella.

agleaminranks wrote:I'm a little confused as to why no one heeded the post I made the other day. I think this is a huge tell-all. To restate,

Royce Bracket
Flood ( )- Sometimes…people can be…contagious. People can be contagious. Whoever targets your target the same Night will be silenced and unable to vote while they recover.

This got revealed on the role sheet a few days ago, I noticed, and it made me go back and re-examine some of the votes that had previously been cast, in light of the people who were supposedly silenced.

First night was sig, who was apparently silenced for the following day. If he was telling the truth, which, since he was lynched, I am more inclined to believe now than I was before, there is also another role that silences people for the day.

With this in mind, it seems likely to me that this person would probably isolate their nightvote targets (or even not vote altogether) so as to avoid being outed with that information. I know I had made a criticism that it seemed unlikely for more than one person to be silenced or anything, but now I'm a little more inclined to believe it's possible.

Given that both nutella and DrumBeats voted for the same element the first night and DB could vote and chat the first day, I don't think nutella is bad. Assuming I'm interpreting the role correctly.

Of the people who are still alive, there is only one person who fits the following criteria: has so far been the only person to target a Process element alone or not voted at all, and that is kneel4justice. If we're going by that strategy, it seems possible that K4J could be the role in question.

However, in looking at the players who only had one overlapping vote with another person on a night vote, that would be thellama. On Night 1 he shares a vote with sig who is promptly nightkilled. Given that sig would not have been around to even be silenced or voteblocked, it would make perfect sense for covering up this role in hindsight.

I do not feel comfortable contributing to nutella's lynch. I would rather target one of the two aformentioned. I believe there is a baddie among them, particularly the role I quoted above. I am placing my vote on thellama for today. I will try and analyze both in more detail coming soon.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand what you're saying, but if I do -- I believe that 'target' refers to a night action rather than a public vote.
I will go ahead and join the Young Lady vote. I have nothing to hide.

Unfortunately I don't have much time to dedicate to the game today. My vote is going to nutella. I think that the post about Niju was weird, in which there was admitted no reason to think Niju was the process but somehow the thought was kept alive. The not voting for Eloh the second time around could've been a baddie not wanting to give their teammate up. But what sealed the deal for me was this post:

nutella wrote:DF, my suspicion of you is partially due to your significantly greater volume of posting than usual, but is really mostly gut feeling, as have been most of my suspicions in this game. I know that I have not looked great and maybe I should back off from my mostly-gut-read suspicions since I was wrong about Nero, but I swear I have only been genuine in my opinions. I just sometimes get really strong gut suspicions of people that I can't really justify when people push me for detailed explanations, but they are strong enough to get my attention and vote especially when there aren't any more compelling reasons to vote for someone.

Niju, if there are any particular responses you want for me, ask away, I really would like to convince you that I'm not bad. As soon as I saw the flip on Elo I knew I would be a lynch candidate soon but I really just made a bad call in giving her a second chance and going with my gut. And I wouldn't be surprised if the people who jump on the weak and opportunistic "nutella is Elo's teammate" theory are Elo's actual teammates. I don't want to waste a lynch and I have probably one of the most powerful civ roles in the game so I hope you can see that I have really just been unfortunately making innocent mistakes so far.

This post strikes me as trying to scare people out of voting for you rather than actually being genuine.

I'm not concerned with Nutella's interaction with me about DF. I think some people might be taking that out of context, unless I am just misunderstanding what you guys are trying to get at. I was asking how Nutella could justify suspecting both since one of DF's only suspicion was on Nero - and Nutella then explained the suspicion was done in a way that could be a harmless distancing from a teammate.

Now that being said, I'm not convinced Nutella is town. I do find it weird the why the post was written to kind of go along with the idea that one was mafia/town/process, when Nutella didn't really suspect Niju.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Continued from above...

kneel4justice's vote was the fifth. He voiced some suspicion of Nero on Day 2, suggesting that he might have been employing a baddie appeal to emotion gambit with his remorseful reflection upon his general Mafia skill set (hey Nero, keep playing pal you're doing fine). He waffled a little bit on it:

kneel4justice wrote:As for Nero...I do think the posts are suspicious, but I haven't decided if it means bad alignment. It might truly be coming from a player who doesn't have much faith in their scumhunting abilities. While I disagree with Nero's vote, I can't be sure it equals baddie.

On Day 3 K4J essentially rehashed the same suspicion of Nero's "appeal to emotion" with a tone of uncertainty. He didn't show interest in an MP vote and he suggested he thought niju looked better in light of Elohcin being bad. That was unexplained though -- K4J, please describe what you saw in the niju/Elo interaction that you thought was a good look for niju.

I liked that Niju was questioning of Eloh from the very beginning. I believe the first comment was a response to Matt asking if people actually believed that Eloh thought Wilgy was cursed (which I believe most people ignored). Niju's suspicion only increased and she provided one of the first Eloh votes to counteract the Zebra bandwagon.

Well that sucks. Sorry, Nero.
Voted for Operator.

MP's explanation of his thought process on Eloh throughout the game makes me feel good about it. I can now understand why he felt good about her and admit that even I might have done so had I actually been in the game and playing it real time.

Niju has done nothing to strike me as suspicious. Taking into consideration the suspicion and voting of Eloh, I feel rather confident that she is not working with the mafia.

That being said, my vote is going to Nero.

Just looked back briefly at MP's posts on Eloh (thanks to JJJ for making that easier). Not quite sure why MP was getting a town-read on Eloh in the first place, as in I would have disagreed with that, but I can't say the particular point in which he became suspicious of Eloh was all that unreasonable or bothersome. I'd like to see some clarification from MP on why exactly he felt good on Eloh and if I missed that -- my apologies, it is 1 in the morning here, lol.

Scotty wrote:I went though everything MP said about Elo leading up to her almost lynch and her actual lynch and have a very strong suspicion that he is bad because of it. On the surface he looks town for trying to start that CFD before EoD but I don't buy it and actually think he's trying to look town instead of being town.

Are these votes changeable?

im in a show right now so I will not be around to respond with expediency

I don't recall anything suspicious about his interaction with Eloh. I just remember he was one of those willing to vote for her over Zebra in D1 which had gave me a good feeling. I'll have to go back and see this.

nijuukyugou wrote:Well, hot damn.

DrumBeats wrote:Conspiracy theory: What if it is 1 town, 1 mafia, and 1 independent (Process)?

Could be.

Nerolunar wrote:I think it´s 2 town, 1 mafia. I don´t think we will have 33% change to lynch the Process at any point in this game except for maybe Lylo. Would be too easy to lynch the Process then.

Could be.

OR

What do these names have in common? They are three names in alphabetical order, taken from the player list. I think it's random in regards to alignment, because Epi is an evil bastard who I know is getting a kick out of this. Those combinations above could be correct. One could be Process, two civ. Two could be mafia, one could be civ. Hell, all three could be civ. Regardless, this is a most unfortunate poll, and I (and everyone) will need to think carefully about this.

I didn't realize it was alphabetical. Now I am even more confident in the belief that the idea that the poll consists of one of each faction is wrong. I'm just trying to think of what makes most sense to have caused this and I guess that's a guessing game, but I just wonder if this is a pointless round or if at least one of you is indeed bad.


Also, JJJ: While you went back and evaluated my posts on Eloh, you forgot to put me on your list.

nutella wrote:RIP Matt.

JJJ, I have already explained my Nero vote. I know that it looks bad for me but I genuinely felt better about Elo.

Now this poll is weird...

DrumBeats wrote:And based on that idea, I have a question for everyone. EVERYONE SHOULD ANSWER THIS:

If that is the case, and the three available on the poll are one town, one mafia, and the Process, who do you think is each?

My opinion:
Town-MovingPictures07
Process-nijuukyugou
Mafia-Nerolunar

I agree with this completely, in the case that it is indeed one of each (I have no particular reason to think niju is the process, although Matt thought so, and she very well could be). I do think that MP is town and Nero is mafia. With that I'll go ahead and vote Nero

I do have to say that I am a bit concerned with this straight-away vote. Even with your previous suspicion of Nero, I would think that with only 3 players on the poll, a civ would want to be more cautious.

Question for Epi...if there were no votes cast at all, would that mean no one would be lynched or would it have been randomized?

DFaraday wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:RIP Matt.
I'm going to try catching up. The poll sucks.

nutella wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

nutella wrote:Alright, I'm giving Eloh another chance and voting for Nerolunar because he is bad. Just a strong gut feeling that has emerged from his last several posts. I feel similarly about DF, and to a lesser extent llama.

So, what do you make of DF suspicion of Nero? Do you think they're teammates? I don't recall a lot of opinions from DF (if I missed something, please let me know)...so I would be inclined to believe that the few suspicions that DF does share, if he were bad, wouldn't be a teammate. Especially considering Nero was not really under fire.

I do actually think DF and Nero could be teammates. DF already seems to be participating more than he usually does (usually barely at all), and I guess I see your point that his few contributions must be legit but I could also see him cleverly fabricating a suspicion on a teammate that might not have seemed likely to go anywhere. His "case"/comment on Nero was pretty weak and he ends up classifying it as a "mild baddie" read, not a very committed suspicion, and misses the vote anyway. And now he says he's rethinking the suspicion in light of Elo's flip. Idk, it might be a stretch but I could see it.

DF, why do you think you need to reconsider your suspicion of Nero based on the result?

Thanks for explaining. I could see this being a possibility. Especially with the fact that he said he needs to rethink the suspicion on Nero.

Is it not commonplace to reevaluate your suspicions in light of a baddie being lynched? I thought everyone did that.

I'm probably going to vote for Nero anyway since he's still my most suspicious of the three, but I want to hear more about why Scotty suspects MP, whom I've been reading pretty strongly as civ.

I understand needing to reevaluate things after a player is lynched. It was just that earlier I was thinking that you and Nero would not both be bad because of you sharing suspicion of him, but with Nutella's explanation, I see how that could've been the case and am now not as reluctant to the idea of both you being mafia. However, that isn't to say I do feel you two are working together, I have no reason to believe that. I was just more so curious as to how Nutella found both of you suspicious and understood the explanation.

DrumBeats wrote:And based on that idea, I have a question for everyone. EVERYONE SHOULD ANSWER THIS:

If that is the case, and the three available on the poll are one town, one mafia, and the Process, who do you think is each?

My opinion:
Town-MovingPictures07
Process-nijuukyugou
Mafia-Nerolunar

I actually disagree with this theory...I don't think that Epi would include a mechanic that exposes players' alignment as this would be doing. Especially not the process seeing as that is an independent role and I'm operating on the assumption that lynching the player with that role would eliminate the faction (though perhaps that is somehow false, considering all of its manifestations and their place on the polls??). Regardless of that fact, I still think it would be a mechanism with hindrance to the fairness of the game and don't see Epi doing that.

As for my opinions on each player on the poll:
MP: I feel pretty good about him. There has been much quality and quantity when it comes to his posts. I haven't had the chance to interact with him yet, as he was seemingly silenced, so hopefully I will get to do that this phase.
Nero: I've had problems with Nero's posts. For me, he has come off using appeal to emotion to avoid/excuse him out of making decisions in regards to voting. That being said, it could be coming from a true and genuine place of not having enough confidence in their scum-hunting abilities. There are times I've wanted to not vote at all as a civilian because I truly do not know who is bad. So while I'm suspicious, I'm not anywhere near sure.
Niju: I haven't paid much attention to Niju. Just briefly looked back at her posts and at the tallies, I get the feeling she at least isn't mafia from her interaction with Eloh.

With that being said, I guess the person I would feel most comfortable voting for from this list is Nero. But even then I'm not as sure as I would like to be. I wonder if all three of these are actually civs.

RIP Matt.
I'm going to try catching up. The poll sucks.

nutella wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

nutella wrote:Alright, I'm giving Eloh another chance and voting for Nerolunar because he is bad. Just a strong gut feeling that has emerged from his last several posts. I feel similarly about DF, and to a lesser extent llama.

So, what do you make of DF suspicion of Nero? Do you think they're teammates? I don't recall a lot of opinions from DF (if I missed something, please let me know)...so I would be inclined to believe that the few suspicions that DF does share, if he were bad, wouldn't be a teammate. Especially considering Nero was not really under fire.

I do actually think DF and Nero could be teammates. DF already seems to be participating more than he usually does (usually barely at all), and I guess I see your point that his few contributions must be legit but I could also see him cleverly fabricating a suspicion on a teammate that might not have seemed likely to go anywhere. His "case"/comment on Nero was pretty weak and he ends up classifying it as a "mild baddie" read, not a very committed suspicion, and misses the vote anyway. And now he says he's rethinking the suspicion in light of Elo's flip. Idk, it might be a stretch but I could see it.

DF, why do you think you need to reconsider your suspicion of Nero based on the result?

Thanks for explaining. I could see this being a possibility. Especially with the fact that he said he needs to rethink the suspicion on Nero.

Sorry I haven't been around. I've gotten really sick. So I can't catch up or read what's happened since last night. I'm glad we got Eloh, though!
I went ahead and voted for the Creep option.

I'm out right now. Going to vote Eloh because she hasn't done anything to settle my initial suspicions.

nutella wrote:Alright, I'm giving Eloh another chance and voting for Nerolunar because he is bad. Just a strong gut feeling that has emerged from his last several posts. I feel similarly about DF, and to a lesser extent llama.

So, what do you make of DF suspicion of Nero? Do you think they're teammates? I don't recall a lot of opinions from DF (if I missed something, please let me know)...so I would be inclined to believe that the few suspicions that DF does share, if he were bad, wouldn't be a teammate. Especially considering Nero was not really under fire.

I do have a question for DF and that is, did you find Nero's post about following a bandwagon suspicious or not? You said that the defense about wanting to be a better player read genuine, but you still suspected - can you explain a bit more in depth?

As for Nero...I do think the posts are suspicious, but I haven't decided if it means bad alignment. It might truly be coming from a player who doesn't have much faith in their scumhunting abilities. While I disagree with Nero's vote, I can't be sure it equals baddie.

DFaraday wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:These zebra votes are seriously ridiculously suspicious at face value. If you all can't recognize that, then I don't know what to say.

Ugh, I know.

You seem to be scapegoating hard though. It makes me a little wary of you, throwing blame around. Did you defend Zebra or her actions anywhere? If this lynch was as bad as you make it out to be, you should have been more vocal about it before it happened.

Won´t it just regenerate if we kill it? I think someone(Nutella maybe) wrote something about those cells.

This struck me as a NO U, and rather inaccurate assessment of MP.

Nerolunar wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Nerolunar wrote:If I know myself well, Im going to believe in a case made tomorrow and bandwagon. Thats how it usually is for me at this stage. Im not proud, just saying.

Hold the phone. Why is that a bad thing?

You are preemptively setting yourself up for failure, but only becaused you defined the action as failure. Why?

Because I struggle forming independent reads in the beginning of a game and it bugs me. I think it is a bad thing that I must rely on other player´s cases.

At least I am able to reflect on this, I guess.

Ugh I just need to be better at mafia. 7 losses in a row have made me a little sour.

This feels genuine, but in a game with Mafia and an Independent threat, isn't necessarily indicative of alignment. There wasn't a lot to go on, but I'd read Nero as mildly baddie based on his posts.

I had missed some of these posts...The second portion that you quoted is concerning to me. I don't know Nero, but this feels like an appeal to emotion and my experience with posts similar to these are that they come from baddies.

thellama73 wrote:

DFaraday wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I am fairly willing to trust the Cell and vote young lady today, though, if others agree.

Why?

Why not? I'm a trusting person, and from the result we will be able to tell the quality of the cell's information for the future.

I can't tell if you're being serious?
This would be a waste, no? The Cell said that if there is a Cell after D1 and D2 it is not to be trusted.

thellama73 wrote:JJJ has done nothing to ameliorate my distrust in him. It started off as a hunch, but doing ISOs on every single player on Day 2 is trying way too hard to appear helpful. I don't buy it, good sirs. I don't buy it one bit.

I was actually feeling good about JJJ's posts. But, I can see it as a way to appear helpful too. I myself thought it was kind of early but just figured that is the type of player that JJJ is. If he did it as mafia, that's pretty impressive. I more so was inclined to believe it would be more unnecessary if he were to be mafia.
Is it not normal for him to do ISO's at this stage of the game?
As for you finding Cell's assessment of JJJ to be an indication of alignment...I don't understand your thinking behind that. At the first read, I was not taking it very serious. Then the Wilgy joke kind of confirmed in my mind that it was more so a troll than having some inside insight. Have you changed your perspective on the Cell's readings since there have now been more?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
reywaS / kneel4justice

Spoiler: show

kneel4justice wrote:Okay, so a lot of the things that I have opinions on transpired from or are related to that of Zebra. I understand that the vote for Matt and the mix-up on when the day ended was 'odd', but do I think it warranted any real suspicion? No. That being said, I am suspicious of people who tried to place Zebra in a negative light. I do not have much experience with Zebra but from my previous experience, I know this is a player who is very good at the game and I did not understand how people thought Zebra would be so obvious as mafia - so I think there was definitely some mafia pushing for this. Obviously not everyone can be.

One of the players who was suspicious of Zebra and in doing so caught my eye was DrumBeats. DrumBeats main reason for suspecting was due to the supposed slip when asking why "we" should trust Drumbeats in regards to the whole working with the mafia plan. I read that "we" as the town (and I read the counter-argument against that being that there would be no need to trust Drumbeats, but still felt it was very nit-picky to find "we" as a slip). I give Zebra was more credit than that. To think that that was a slip, I just cannot see it.
With that being said - there is one thing from DrumBeats that makes me hesitate and say this could be a town aligned player. I think the whole proposal to working with the mafia (while I don't agree with it) it would be something that would be sure to bring a lot of attention; something I am not sure a mafia would risk asking for.

Another player that had struck me odd with in joining the Zebra suspicion was DFaraday. Because as he said himself, the extent of the suspicion was because Zebra was acting "weird". Again, I find this problematic because, why would a mafia member have been acting this way? So obviously weird?
I think what makes matters worse was that this (correct me if I am wrong) came AFTER Matt had suggested the idea that Zebra had been somehow affected by the cheerleader poll option, which made perfect sense to explain Zebra's actions, yet that was nearly completely ignored. I am slightly confused on Matt - I really liked that he brought this up and tried to steer the lynch away from Zebra. There was just one comment, where he said that Zebra could have either been the Process or controlled by the Process. I did not follow the logic. Why would Epi create a game mechanic that forces a role who is a threat to both the mafia and civilians to post in a way that essentially exposes them? So that made me pause and think wait - maybe he just sees where the lynch is heading and kind of wants to clear himself in advance. Esp since his vote was already placed there. IDK I am very much up in the air about this, could go either way.

Now aside from Zebra, the other lynch candidate seemed to have been Eloh. First, I think the push for Zebra could have been to avoid an Eloh lynch, but then again it is possible both were civvies. However, I do think that Eloh has been acting suspiciously. The first problem I had was Eloh's suspicion of DrumBeats' comment about finding a loophole for self voting. It strikes me as a contradiction, because you have Eloh saying that her modding experience has showed her how unhelpful civvies can be and how they should put more effort into scum-hunting (which, I agree with BTW!). But it was kind of like she was recognizing that civvies are unfortunately unhelpful and do not act or say things that have the best interest of the town in them - but then, here she is suspecting someone for the loophole comment. It's contradicting, IMO. I've struggled with wanting to comment on players unhelpful styles before even though I don't necessarily see them as bad, so I get that but I do think this was a contradiction. Also there was mentioning of thinking Wilgy was cursed (I did not see that particular post? So if someone could direct me to that, that would be great) but she ignored the idea of Zebra being affected, which IMO was much more believable. Esp since Wilgy is kinda..crazy, already (and I mean that in a good way lol).

Not quite sure what to make of that Eloh/DrumBeats interaction though. Since I suspect both of them, the idea that Eloh would suspect DB for something right off the bat seems kind of unlikely. But I did notice DB trusted Eloh which I did not quite understand. So not sure what to make of their interaction in terms of if both/one/none are mafia.

Another thing that pinged me, but it isn't huge, just something I noticed was Illyria's post explaining that they didn't have a desk job, I get the need to inform players on that. That part was fine, but it was the added part saying I post a lot of OT and emoticons that made me wonder - wait, why are you explaining the way you play? Is it so down the road if people notice you aren't posting meat, you can kind of say - well I told you that is just the way I am. Now that is minor, and I don't recall much after that but it was something I had wondered about

I think that is all that I really was suspicious of. Some players who I am not used to playing with so their username does not really register with me faded in the background. I felt good about MP. I know he is capable of posting a lot when he is mafia but from what I could tell he is genuinely scum-hunting. I think for the most part I don't have solid opinions on anyone else yet, more so neutral.

This is quite a substantive post, and it came approximately one hour after his initial post after replacing in. That would seem to indicate that he spent real time reviewing this thread, taking notes, and coming up with content to provide. That's a nice look for a guy that just joined the game. I will challenge one point made here, the one I highlighted. I don't know that it makes sense to assert the Zebra wagoners were avoiding an Elohcin lynch, because the Elohcin counterwagon did not develop until the Zebra wagon had already reached its peak.

~~~

It's a nice start, but there's still too little to judge. Thanks for joining us, kneel4justice.

See, when I had been reading the thread, I was initially suspicious of Eloh but it got to the point where quite a few people had been voicing suspicions on her (as far as I can remember this was before Zebra had really gained any attention) and it seemed the lynch was headed that way. I was wondering if I were actually wrong in my suspicion and the mafia was trying to push for her lynch. So when I suddenly saw things going towards Zebra, I felt like perhaps it had been because the mafia needed to find a second option to push for in order to avoid an Eloh lynch and I had actually been right at first. Then there is the possibility that they are both good and the mafia just did not want to all bandwagon on the same player. So, it is up in the air but I do stand by the possibility that the mafia was avoiding an Eloh lynch because she is their team member.

Linki Niju - Okay, thanks! I was wondering since no one else seemed to have mentioned it! Nice to know it isn't just me.

Has anyone else been having on/off trouble accessing this site? I've tried different browsers, clearing my internet history, etc. Nothing seems to be working & I'm not having this problem with any other websites.

DFaraday wrote:When did Day 1 votes become such serious business around here? I recall a time when half the field would randomize on Day 1 and nobody thought it weak, when Jason Maher would vote himself every Day 1 and nobody complained, and actually having a substantial reason for voting that early was unusual. Did something change, or am I severely misremembering, because I still don't approach Day 1 with that much analysis.

I would also note that MP says there is no reason for a baddie to act the way Zebra was, which may be true (though I think baddies can play intentionally obtuse in thread to avoid committing to anything). However, I would ask what reason a baddie specifically would have for giving such a throwaway reason for voting someone. I don't think it's a stretch to say that civvies vote for lame reasons just as much as baddies, and I really don't see how a weak voting reason is alignment-indicative at all.

If you want to say my vote was weaksauce, fine, it kind of was, but it doesn't make me bad.

EBWOP: K4J, for the longest time your avi was a source of gender confusion for me.

Personally, I have always been the type to take my votes seriously. I acknowledge that not everyone feels the same way. So, this response does give me something to think about...somehow it reads as genuine.
That being said, I do still believe there were people taking advantage of Zebra, and even though it was D1, there were reasons to pause in voting for Zebra (the cheerleader thing) and the fact that was ignored by you doesn't sit well with me. That combined with what felt like a serious D1 atmosphere, I just felt there was enough to actually attempt on D1 rather than dismiss it. It might be down to personal style. For now I will just be keeping an eye out.

Also, I often associate icons with gender too...which is strange considering mine don't match lol whoops!

Also - is there a gender guide somewhere or can someone give me one? I'm struggling lol

Okay, so a lot of the things that I have opinions on transpired from or are related to that of Zebra. I understand that the vote for Matt and the mix-up on when the day ended was 'odd', but do I think it warranted any real suspicion? No. That being said, I am suspicious of people who tried to place Zebra in a negative light. I do not have much experience with Zebra but from my previous experience, I know this is a player who is very good at the game and I did not understand how people thought Zebra would be so obvious as mafia - so I think there was definitely some mafia pushing for this. Obviously not everyone can be.

One of the players who was suspicious of Zebra and in doing so caught my eye was DrumBeats. DrumBeats main reason for suspecting was due to the supposed slip when asking why "we" should trust Drumbeats in regards to the whole working with the mafia plan. I read that "we" as the town (and I read the counter-argument against that being that there would be no need to trust Drumbeats, but still felt it was very nit-picky to find "we" as a slip). I give Zebra was more credit than that. To think that that was a slip, I just cannot see it.
With that being said - there is one thing from DrumBeats that makes me hesitate and say this could be a town aligned player. I think the whole proposal to working with the mafia (while I don't agree with it) it would be something that would be sure to bring a lot of attention; something I am not sure a mafia would risk asking for.

Another player that had struck me odd with in joining the Zebra suspicion was DFaraday. Because as he said himself, the extent of the suspicion was because Zebra was acting "weird". Again, I find this problematic because, why would a mafia member have been acting this way? So obviously weird?
I think what makes matters worse was that this (correct me if I am wrong) came AFTER Matt had suggested the idea that Zebra had been somehow affected by the cheerleader poll option, which made perfect sense to explain Zebra's actions, yet that was nearly completely ignored. I am slightly confused on Matt - I really liked that he brought this up and tried to steer the lynch away from Zebra. There was just one comment, where he said that Zebra could have either been the Process or controlled by the Process. I did not follow the logic. Why would Epi create a game mechanic that forces a role who is a threat to both the mafia and civilians to post in a way that essentially exposes them? So that made me pause and think wait - maybe he just sees where the lynch is heading and kind of wants to clear himself in advance. Esp since his vote was already placed there. IDK I am very much up in the air about this, could go either way.

Now aside from Zebra, the other lynch candidate seemed to have been Eloh. First, I think the push for Zebra could have been to avoid an Eloh lynch, but then again it is possible both were civvies. However, I do think that Eloh has been acting suspiciously. The first problem I had was Eloh's suspicion of DrumBeats' comment about finding a loophole for self voting. It strikes me as a contradiction, because you have Eloh saying that her modding experience has showed her how unhelpful civvies can be and how they should put more effort into scum-hunting (which, I agree with BTW!). But it was kind of like she was recognizing that civvies are unfortunately unhelpful and do not act or say things that have the best interest of the town in them - but then, here she is suspecting someone for the loophole comment. It's contradicting, IMO. I've struggled with wanting to comment on players unhelpful styles before even though I don't necessarily see them as bad, so I get that but I do think this was a contradiction. Also there was mentioning of thinking Wilgy was cursed (I did not see that particular post? So if someone could direct me to that, that would be great) but she ignored the idea of Zebra being affected, which IMO was much more believable. Esp since Wilgy is kinda..crazy, already (and I mean that in a good way lol).

Not quite sure what to make of that Eloh/DrumBeats interaction though. Since I suspect both of them, the idea that Eloh would suspect DB for something right off the bat seems kind of unlikely. But I did notice DB trusted Eloh which I did not quite understand. So not sure what to make of their interaction in terms of if both/one/none are mafia.

Another thing that pinged me, but it isn't huge, just something I noticed was Illyria's post explaining that they didn't have a desk job, I get the need to inform players on that. That part was fine, but it was the added part saying I post a lot of OT and emoticons that made me wonder - wait, why are you explaining the way you play? Is it so down the road if people notice you aren't posting meat, you can kind of say - well I told you that is just the way I am. Now that is minor, and I don't recall much after that but it was something I had wondered about

I think that is all that I really was suspicious of. Some players who I am not used to playing with so their username does not really register with me faded in the background. I felt good about MP. I know he is capable of posting a lot when he is mafia but from what I could tell he is genuinely scum-hunting. I think for the most part I don't have solid opinions on anyone else yet, more so neutral.

Hi everyone!
I haven't played mafia in nearly 6 months, I think? I used to be addicted, lol. I'm excited to be back!
Sorry to have missed you Zebra (I was really hoping to get to play with you again) and Sig.

I've been reading/skimming the game as it happened for the most part, so I'll see if I can get some of my thoughts posted tonight (no promises though).