The Syndicate

thellama73 wrote:We caught someone In a flat out lie

No, we did not.

Gonna have to vote for Llama because I don't think Made is lying.

thellama73 wrote:I also want to point out the implications of TH's "Made is being forced to say things by a secret role" theory. If we accept this, we give every player an easy out from suspicion for the rest of the game. Any time from here on out that anyone says "Ah ha! So and so made a slip! He must be bad" they can come back and say "I was forced to do it. Secret role." Am I the only one who sees how dangerous this is?

Honestly, this was a mechanic in LC and BR's recent Recruitment III game. In that game players could be "cursed" to do certain things, including vote for certain players or be forced to build a case on someone. So there's precedent for this kind of thing, and it only really works if it's a secret.

thellama73 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Just posting cause llama seems like he's ready to flip some tables and kick some ass.

Nah, I'm done. Hope I don't die though.

The ball has been passed back to DH's court. You still feel pretty strongly about Made, D?

Keep in mind that there is likely 1 - 4 people who are pretty pissed at Made for spilling the beans here...

Okay, I will not be voting for Made. I am convinced he's telling the truth about what has transpired. That doesn't automatically make him a civvie, but it keeps him off my suspect list for now.

Dom wrote:A few different reasons why a baddie might have been pointed out.
Am I sure of them? No. Do I think Made is hiding something? Yes.

But is he being forced to hide something? That's the question in my mind.

If Made wanted to come up with this lie... don't you think he would have asked Epi the same question we all just did?

juliets wrote:Why would a civ lie about that?

Why would anyone lie about this?

Okay, the answer I got was no, you are not allowed to say your vote was forced if it has been forced. But Made also never said that Mr. Boddy was the one responsible... perhaps Made is being compelled to say his vote was forced, and a secret role is responsible. That's the only scenario I can see that makes any sense and still be within the rules of the game. I still see no reason for Made to lie about any of this when he wasn't even in the hot seat previously. I'm still inclined to trust him.

And like FZ just said, Face of Boe should hopefully still be out there to check out Made tonight.

My support for Made is based entirely upon the fact that I assumed his behavior was within the rules of the game, I'm waiting to hear if that's the case.

Just PMed Epignosis, awaiting reply...

FZ. wrote:Then there's llama. He has his own logic, but I feel like he's choosing to ignore all other logic. Usually, he addresses it and then proceed with his choice. Still, I have been blamed for not answering people's questions as a civ many times. Sometimes, it's because you're a civ, that you don't care as much how you're perceived, so you just ignore things that you wouldn't as a baddie.

He did this in Monopoly mafia as well. He came after me all game with a logically flawed case, and when I pointed out those flaws he ignored them and wouldn't respond to me. He stated post-game that his entire goal that game was to get me lynched. He was an indie role, but then again we all were...

I don't know if it makes him bad, but it definitely isn't helping.

I wish LC would give up on the posting contest and join the discussion. He silently moved his vote from DH to Made after Made came in with the forced vote story.

My post addressed to you wasn't very long Llama, but you must have ignored it all the same.

thellama73 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Hey Llama, do you have anything to add to the discussion?

I've made my decision. I think Made is a liar and I'm very happy with my vote. Nothing else jumps out at present except that it is time for me to go drinking.

Llama, you appreciate logic. Please, walk me through the logic of Made lying about this. Let's start inside his baddie brain, from the time this scheme was formed, can you present a cohesive scenario where it makes sense for him to be lying? What is he gaining from this ordeal other than your vote?

Double posting because I like the 5 teams below me and because idgaf

thellama73 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I note that, although there are seven roles with secrets, only one public role can sort of force votes, and that is Mr. Boddy. If your vote was forced by Boddy, Made, why did you let him blackmail you? Got something to hide?

*Votes Made.*

This is a good point. Counterpoint: Boddy could certainly disseminate false information.


@Host - So if no one posts out of turn, no one can be NK'd?

That's not how he worked in my game, but I guess Epig could have changed it.

So how did this role work in this other game you're referencing? I'm assuming that if Made does anything against Mr. Boddy's wishes, that Boddy would successfully blackmail him. Isn't that how it should work? I'm guessing there will be repercussions for Made, if he's telling the truth.

But Made... did I see you say that you were targeted by a role with a *secret*? Does that mean Mr. Boddy isn't responsible for your forced vote, and if that's the case, can you say who you think is responsible?

Rest in peace BR, sad to see you go so early

FZ. wrote:By the way, Is this non-committal relatively quiet behaviour from TH something you expect from him as a civ? Because in all the games that I've played with him and he was a civ (which isn't many), he was more involved.

Yes, my play so far is normal for me. It's Day 2 and I'm in the middle of the pack, post-wise. Once things get going I tend to climb toward the top of the posters list. I wouldn't call me style non-committal... what do you think I've been noncommittal about? And do you think non-committalness is baddie behavior?

Here's a question for the Made voters... what do you think he has to gain from lying? What kind of ploy could this possibly be? He's either telling the truth or lying for no good reason... It doesn't make sense for Made to lie any more than it makes sense that he's telling the truth. As for pulling Epi's hosting decisions into the equation... how can you assume what Epi will or won't allow a player to say? I remember in X-Men there was a big kerfuffle about an info-dump. A player was outed but it also ended up backfiring on the civs somewhat. Epi played it cool and didn't interfere. So I don't see any precedent for assuming Epi would interfere with what a player says in the game. And so I have no reason to question Made's authenticity in this matter.

As for DH's big Day 1 move, I don't know if I believe it, but I believe that DH believes it. In any case I'm still not getting baddie vibes from DH even though he's been a bit all over the place.

*tags Lizzy*

I chose Lizzay

Rest in peace aardvark

Stanley has a choice to make.

That was the post that initially made me think you had good intentions because you referenced getting a reaction. That post was about something else?

Hmmmmm that does seen like doublespeak from MM.

S~V~S wrote:I guess my question really is why do you believe him? I have no clue what he is talking about. Since you find him sincere I thought you might.

He was maybe just seeing how defensive you got, or what you were defensive about. It's a tactic I've used as a civvie so it rings sincere to me.

FZ. wrote:So everything else he's said since then has done nothing for you, in either direction?

Nothing he's said has made me suspect him less, no, though now he's in a tiff with DH who I'm not feeling is bad. LC vs DH could be civ on civvie but I've been pinged by LC and not DH. Do you think LCs other comments should make me change my mind about him?

S~V~S wrote:

S~V~S wrote:TH, what kind of reaction do you think MM was looking for?

TH, did you see this?

I don't know what kind of reaction he was looking for. He doesn't suspect you it seems, so the reaction he got must have been one he feels is civvie.

FZ, I suspect LC for reasons I already stated. I think he took too much from Rey's early vote and I felt he was being opportunistic by suspecting Rey for it.

I don't think DH or MM are bad. I wouldn't call what DH has done as "mudslinging", I think he's just discussing things... Voting LC as he's been my strongest ping so far.

Black Rock wrote: TH believes DH's case and also used some excuse that was not true for believing LC was bad.

What did I do?

I also think mafia are more likely to try to be conformist while civvies are more likely to do whatever the fuck they want. There's obviously some notable exceptions but it's not like civvies are trying to act like civvies per se.

I won't be voting for MM or Rey, I found their early votes harmless and I believe MM when he says he did it to get a reaction. LC's vote by contrast I thought felt opportunistic and trying to make something out of nothing on Day 1. My vote might be headed there.

Much like Bea I have to be at work today. Normally I get chances to sneak some mafia'ing in at work but I likely won't be able to today so I'll probably be voting soon

S~V~S wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

I don't think this is true. Why do you say that?

I don't think it's true, either. I hope TH comes back and answers you.

Because it's Day 1, so I'm not suspicious of MM or Rey voting early. I think that overreacting to early joke votes/posts on Day 1 has historically bad results. I also feel that MM and Rey are both known for their zaniness. If Vompatti suddenly joins the game and subsequently votes for himself, will that be suspicious too?

I think the people voting for the people who voted for no reason have less reason to their vote than the people they are voting for.

Interesting that the most recent games aren't poll options even though the winners from those games qualified. Makes me think this poll is relevant to the game.

As for the poll question, I think my greatest mafia achievement in 2014 was in Harry Potter Mafia. It's like Day 10 or whatever and Epi rezzes the role checker, who then rezzes his BTSC partner, and they have intel on half our mafia team. I had to help convince Epi and the rest of the civilians that the rezzed players were recruited and that all their info was false. Somehow it worked and we won!

I just can't help but feel like you could have waited a few days before announcing that Hope it works though. I've got my baddie-hunting glasses on. Yay game!