The Syndicate

Turnip Head wrote:Let's talk about how Metalmarsh and Long Con likely still have their +5 vote powers, and how the window to smoke those votes out before they overwhelm us is slowly closing.

You're just mad because I helped you use yours.

Long Con wrote:At the very least, this would possibly indicate that TH is lying about selling things.

I'm not entirely surprised. He's stated that all his teammates are dead, and I think I've made a decent case proving that wrong. I haven't pressed to figure out who it could be.

And for all we know, he could have been a mere $5 short. But LC I rechecked his posts, and not once did he describe selling anything. That must be what you and I have put in our heads. He's repeated that he mortgaged properties.

Long Con wrote:Ok, so here's the first page:

Houses x 4: Start at $150 each, do not have to used right away if won.
House x 10: $100

Houses and Hotels (bought based off the cost on the normal games card, use the wiki to find the cost):
*Can only be bought for immediate use*
Houses: 0
Hotels (Must have 4 houses before upgrading): 6

Metalmarsh, you did some detective work involving TH, the houses, and the 'Pinks' (I prefer to call them Magenta)... can you take a look at the current stats and let us know what you think? I would think that TH (and his team) would have had to sell Hotels to make it work, at least downgrading to one or two houses on each. I thought there were 6 hotels available before this night was over.

Shouldn't we be seeing some changes there? You have to sell off houses and hotels before mortgaging, so they should be showing up as available.

TH has been suggesting that Bass was his teammate. If that is true, then WW has his property, and since TH must downgrade evenly, he would be stuck at 4 houses with WW blocking him. Also the market has not changed since the beginning of Day 9, so TH could not have downgraded, even after the current cycle. Same deal with Illinois, as you said. The market hasn't changed, so he hasn't sold hotels.

Yes, TH has bought properties, he just bought 3 for $1 each, and if he does still have a partner (or even two) alive, then I'm sure he was able to collect the necessary cash via trades, etc. With as quickly as they built hotels on pink, I bet he does have a partner alive somewhere, not including the Bass reincarnate.

Long Con wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I had to mortgage some real estate to pay off my debts.

So, where is it? In Monopoly board game, when you mortgage a property, other players can buy it, right? Boo, can you tell us about property mortgage in this game please?

You can? I've never played that way. Are those house rules or general rules?

Turnip Head wrote:I honestly have no idea about Water Works right now. I thought I had a solid case on SVS. It's probably worth noting that even if your roleblock story checks out it doesn't exclude you from being WW, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. Also worth noting that even if we lynch Water Works today, the even night kill likely won't go away.

I am not WW, I will tell you that.

Turnip Head wrote:Linki: SVS also bought a protect. I wonder what happened to it.

I guess it died with her, since it couldn't save her from a lynch. I was pretty certain that the RRs didn't have BTSC. Actually, if she did, she probably would have given B&O the other properties to her partner before she was lynched.

Safe travels fingers

Okay, so there are at least 2 with the possibility of a third. TH definitely had one. But who knows about the other one or two. The other ones appeared on Day 2 when sevens were rolled.

DFaraday wrote:Well, I don't know what to tell you, MM. Maybe someone was able to protect you last night from the real killer?

EBWOP: 100 is an awful lot of percent, MM.

I think TH has a protect, but he'd probably use it on himself before me.

I'll have to do some research, but I'm pretty sure that was the only protect around.

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

boo wrote:18. Turnip Head: Started on Tennessee Avenue. Moved 6 (1+5) to Illinois Avenue (TH owes IA $1100, asset count will be done to see if survival is possible).

@TH

Yeah man tell me about it I had to mortgage some real estate to pay off my debts.

Nice going with the roleblock. I see no reason not to trust you re: DFaraday, though I'm still interested in hearing what he has to say.

Welcome back Bass and MP! From my understanding of the rules, they aren't on a team anymore and have to hustle to stay alive.

I'm glad you're still alive, because I gotta ask you, who do you think is WW now? You are the other likely candidate for a NK after buying 3 new properties, so I imagine you are also worried about this. I've got a list pretty narrowed down already. DF was my first thought for a vote, and even though I'm 100% certain, he would not kill tonight so he is not an immediate threat.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hello!

You and Bass have been rezzed. Your redemption couldn't have been drawn up any better.

Are you civvies now or neutral or does it even matter at this point?

Welcome back MP and Bass! Glad to have you.

I'm still trying to understand the new rules though.

boo wrote:18. Turnip Head: Started on Tennessee Avenue. Moved 6 (1+5) to Illinois Avenue (TH owes IA $1100, asset count will be done to see if survival is possible).

@TH

But here's how I narrowed it down.

I am very certain that none of BR, LC, SD, DP, TH, or bea were a RR. BR replaced an inactive who I'm certain was on Epig's team. LC is most assuredly a color (probably also on Epig's team). TH is a pink. SD and DP have been inactive (couldn't have killed) and bea replaced an inactive (couldn't have been around to kill Night 3).

That leaves Hannah, Lorab, fingers, juliets, and DF. I believe Lorab is some civ variation from her early interactions, especially with Epig, which narrows it down to four. Similarly with juliets, she was as interested as the rest to lynch Hedge when she survived the kill early, so I doubt she is a RR. TH's comment about DF stuck out to me today, which is the main reason I picked him.

I blocked DF last night with the RB I acquired recently.

Linki: Yes I did.

And before anyone asks, yes I know why I survived and it's because my guess on the last RR was right.

I just realized that SVS killed Rob.

I hope you die tonight.

I don't have the money to spend on them.

Quiet night tonight.

LoRab wrote:This ups the chances of TH being red, if he's telling the truth about RRs having one of the cards in his color....even if I was wrong he's WW, I don't think he's any good for anyone else.

I think you mean pink/fuschia/violet.

Fantastic result. I honestly thought SVS was a yellow.

Turnip Head wrote:Juliets, I had to use my extra +5 votes that I won because you jerks voted for me but thank you for the non apology haha.

Teehee, you're welcome.

What I meant was that I'm voting TH, because he'll probably save himself anyway. That'll force his hand.

S~V~S wrote:And MM, it's a pretty good case, it is built on coincidences, but it is hard to refute; i tried and found I was could not prove I had been here that night, and I could have killed BR. i am not WW, and I am doing what I can to survive.

I am not Waterworks, and I want to be taken seriously.

You're slick SVS. I'm keeping my vote on you. I'm sure TH will save himself anyway.

juliets wrote:with svs willing to make that bet i have to vote for TH because i believe she is not WW. Maybe she is fooling me but i dont ever remember her willing to bet when she has not been right.

That's exactly how I feel.

I hate sig bets, they make me second guess myself.

As for the RR's I do have an idea of who one might be, but I'm not going to post it yet.

I'd bet zeek was a red. The timing of his kill coincided with the reds getting hotels, and WW knew his property at the time of the kill, which I didn't realize until TH brought it up.

I don't know about the other two. It makes sense for LC to be red, because he had the auto-find, and the reds were the first group to form, and formed rather quickly. But I still can't seem to drop the idea that he and Epi were on a team.

Another thought on the reds. They may have formed quickly because they happened to be a group of three active players who WOULD search for each other first. In that case, LC, zeek and MP would be an ideal red group, or some combination like that.

S~V~S wrote:this is red:



Every time you say pink, MM it confuses the crap out of me.

ANd I am so not Waterworks, you are wrong there, although you ARE correct about me not being Red.

Yup

Every time I say pink, I'm talking about the second row, with St. Charles, States, and Virginia.

juliets wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

juliets wrote:SVS, I see you would like to go for an MM lynch. What do you see there? I have this gut feeling about him but i don't know if it's because he's buying and selling things and must be rich or there's something else giving me a gut feel. I don't vote on gut feels very often, and I'm wondering if my feeling that TH is not bad is wrong headed. Anyway, what's your though on MM?

You are being extremely opportunistic.

Linki: look at the link I posted SVS.

No, I noticed something in what SVS said and asked her about it. I also gave her my opinion so she would know this was not one of these trap questions that people sometimes ask to get a response and then say "aha!". I can't help it that I have a bad gut feeling about you and am interested in anyone that might have a similar feeling. And that big eye thing is just an intimidation tactic that doesnt work with me.

Your gut feeling was sudden. And SVS has not once mentioned being suspicious of me (at least not since Day 3). Where did you get the idea that SVS wanted to lynch me?

What do you think about my case on TH? TH's case on SVS? After I stated my case, you were more interested in the general consensus about TH rather than your own read on him. After TH posted his case on SVS, you opted to wait for SVS's response (and probably everyone else's thoughts as well). Both times, you acknowledged the cases without really saying much. That reads to me as opportunistic. And to all of this I ask, what do you think?


I'll start. I think TH is a pink, and I also think there's a strong possibility that SVS is WW.

I believe BR, SVS, and LC are not pinks. I think SD, DP, TH, and BR are not RR's or WW, and that BR was on Epig's team (before he died). I also think Bass was on TH's team. I also think there is a (very) slight chance that LC is a RR.

And you're not dead yet SVS. There's only 2 hours left 'til the deadline, and TH is still winning, although I'm pretty sure he still has extra votes he can throw in, along with his own vote.

Linki: Please tell me though. Do you agree with my case that TH is pink?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:It's late enough in the day now, here's what I think about TH. He is not a RR.

There are now 6 hotels in the market, meaning someone bought 3 hotels. Since they are only available for immediate use, that means that they will be on the board this coming cycle.

The baby blues and greens are each four houses away from hotels, and TH bought only three houses, so he cannot be in those groups, because that would not be enough to buy hotels. Also, there are now 10 houses on the market for sale at $100 a piece, which means they came off the pink properties. There is also an additional house for sale for $1. The pinks only needed two houses to reach hotels, so I can guarantee that TH is a pink and he put that one back on the market himself.

TH is probably sacrificing himself so his teammates can get hotels. That's why he bought the houses.

S~V~S wrote:If Bass is still in BTS, whoever is his BTS partner, ask him if he really thinks I killed him like that.

I'm confused by this. I'm pretty sure TH is/was his BTSC partner, and he's the one who brought the case forward on you.

juliets wrote:SVS, I see you would like to go for an MM lynch. What do you see there? I have this gut feeling about him but i don't know if it's because he's buying and selling things and must be rich or there's something else giving me a gut feel. I don't vote on gut feels very often, and I'm wondering if my feeling that TH is not bad is wrong headed. Anyway, what's your though on MM?

You are being extremely opportunistic.

Linki: look at the link I posted SVS.

S~V~S wrote:

Long Con wrote:S~V~S did not post for all of Night 4.

Her last post before, was from Day 4:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 360#p98891

And she did not post again until Day 5:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 480#p99050

S~V~S wrote:I had a busy weekend~ but kept up reading. I intend to reread both TH & Boogs a bit harder.

Can someone explain this to me? I don't understand what it is that this is demonstrating that I did? I would like to reply to this, but am not sure what I am replying to.

WW missed a kill on Night 4. LC is showing that you did not post at all on Night 4.

Turnip Head wrote:No I gave the other house to my teammate so we could build hotels, but that teammate is dead now.

Unless TH is deceiving us again, Bass was his partner, SVS. TH bought the houses last night, and Bass is the only person who has died since then.


Linki: Sorry SVS, but there is no fucking way that TH is WW. Please look at my case from last night on why he is a pink and explain how that is false. Here is a link to it.

S~V~S wrote:Metalmarsh, I see you in here. Do you think Sabie was killing people on Night Two, and boo was replacing her on Night 3?

No, I checked back, sabie's last post was on Day 1, so I doubt she killed on Night 2. Since somebody had to have killed, I don't see how you could have replaced that role.

Linki: Well there you go. I would have missed that if you hadn't pointed it out.

Linki 2: Ah, that's another good point, BWT sending the kill in.

Linki 3: Because Bass landed on WW the other day, so WW learned his role. I waited until the very end of the day to explain my case that the pinks had bought hotels (and the TH was a pink), but WW must have already noticed, or just killed Bass because he had houses. TH has all but said that Bass was his partner. Oh, and Bass won Mediterranean

Linki 4: Dammit, let me post SVS.

Turnip Head wrote:What do you think of my case on SVS, Jules? And do you agree that we should try to lynch the killers before lynching the LMS groups? I'm coming up on the red part of the board, I might simply go bankrupt anyways.

But I think if you go bankrupt, then your properties go to the owner of the property you landed on anyway.

At least if we lynch you, we know who gets your property.

juliets wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:No I gave the other house to my teammate so we could build hotels, but that teammate is dead now.

I actually didn't realize that the railroads could build a hotel on the third property until after it happened, I thought they needed all three, so I do apologize for that. I've been bested by the mechanics of this game more than once...

You gave a house to a teammate? Meaning you bought the house and then gave it to someone to place on their property? I thought you had to buy your own houses to place on your own property. Otherwise, one richer property owner could build up his partners properties. Just doesn't make sense to me.

According to boo, we can 'trade' anything, so TH could just sell the house to a teammate for $1.

I'm moving my vote to SVS for now. Regardless, it makes sense for WW to kill someone who they know has a hotel.

Turnip Head wrote:I've only built on my own property. I don't have my teammates' cards/hotels, the baddies do.

We can safely assume you are one of the pinks. So you bought 3 houses, put one on your property (assuming you aren't Virginia), returned one to the market, and sold one to a baddie? Before today, you were the only player to publicly buy a house, meaning no one else had one in reserve somewhere. If the baddies have the other two pinks, then you still allowed them to gain hotels. I don't believe you would do that, so I don't believe that your teammates are dead.

I guess Bass could be one of your teammates, but you've just said that the baddies have the other pinks. If you are Virginia, then you gave them a house (or two) to get to hotels. If you are one of the other two, then you should be dead because you landed on Virginia and paid the baddies $900.

So, I don't believe you.

Turnip Head wrote:

DFaraday wrote:That is an interesting case, so I would like to hear SVS's response. Having said that, it sounds a bit as if you're saying "I may be LMS, but she started as a baddie." As far as I can tell, once you become LMS, you might as well be baddie to everyone else.

Yeah I suppose that's what I'm saying. But let's not kid ourselves here, 12 of the 13 remaining players are LMS or baddie, lol. In that respect I'm just as bad as everyone else. But I have no kill, no teammates left, and cannot learn roles. The baddies need me dead to win. Force them to NK me. If they're NKing me, they're not NKing you. Pretty sweet deal, right?

No teammates left? How in the world did you acquire all of the pinks and buy hotels on them?

Turnip Head wrote:Her reactions to Bass were in relation to you. She was thinking maybe you two had BTSC, I think. Water Works hasn't learned your role yet, MM.

I am one of the few fortunate remaining. I'm hope that's my saving grace.

Linki: Alright, I'll trust you on this TH.

DFaraday wrote: That is an interesting case, so I would like to hear SVS's response. Having said that, it sounds a bit as if you're saying "I may be LMS, but she started as a baddie." As far as I can tell, once you become LMS, you might as well be baddie to everyone else.

At this point, lynching a RR or WW is more crucial. With all the kills and properties they've racked up, they are more dangerous than LMS players. On the other hand, it would be beneficial to kill one or two players in each of the LMS groups to decrease their power. On one hand, I hope that's what the RR's and WW have been doing, but on the other hand, that means they own properties with hotels.

Enjoy the $1 TH. I'm assuming it's going to you.

Turnip Head wrote:Interesting that SVS tried to outbid you, MM, for the Baltic property, but didn't bother trying to outbid Bass for the Mediterranean property. I guess she was planning on killing him anyway, so she was able to get it for free!

She didn't seem to be aware that I had the bonus added to my bid. SVS is not someone I expect to be intentionally obtuse.

That's the best post you've made all game TH. I still have some questions about it.

What about her reactions to Bass before Bass was NK'd? also, what about the missed NK from WW on Day 4? I was having other ideas for SVS's role, and that was as part of a color group, not as WW. She hasn't paid attention to a lot of details about this game, but if she is WW, maybe that's because her partner died early on?

Turnip Head wrote:First of all, I'm confused, because I should have won Baltic and Mediterranean but I got neither. After the official bidding period closed with no bids placed, I placed $1 bids on the properties at 4:22pm PST, and no one outbid me within 30 minutes of that post. The next bid was MM at 5:05pm PST. So... I should have those properties. If I had, I would have placed my three little houses on them now.

boo said the period was ending at 10 PM EST (so at 7). That's why my bid, and presumably Bass's trumped yours.

Do you have any clues or ideas about LMS LC? I'm going under the assumption that you have, or did have, BTSC with another player at some point. What determines whether your alignment changes and whether you are still civ?

If you gain BTSC with only one other player (in a 3-property color), but the other player dies before you can find them, are you still civ? I assumed that any such player would be. However, according to your interpretation of the poll, you seem to know otherwise.

boo wrote:Win Conditions:
Civvies that do not establish full BTSC can win with each other, and need all other players dead in order to win.
Civvies that do establish full BTSC (meaning they either find all of their set while everyone is alive, or they acquire the necessary cards by buying them), can only win with that set, or with their monopoly if they manage to establish one.
The Railroads need all other players dead in order to win.
The Utilities need all other players dead in order to win.

I think it's just saying there are 13 players, so lynch 1 and there are 12 left.

Your explanation means there are 14 players, which there are not.

Long Con wrote:Also, after doing some Board analysis, and just now noticing the poll info... there is one solitary Civilian left in the game.

Are you implying that you are not civ. I'm not sure what you mean though. How can there be only one solitary civ? I count at least 2.



Another thing I noticed, Black Rock was forced to use one die on Day 8, presumably to be forced to land on the pinks while they had houses. I recall TH buying a "subtract-a-die" power at some point.

So that rules BR out as a possible partner of TH.

Black Rock wrote:A little selfish but oh thank goodness, the game is slowed down. I'm going to vote for TH today, I really am convinced he's baddie by now. Every time we go another way we're lynching civvies.

This game has slowed down too much. I bet some players' BTSC's are more active right now.

S~V~S wrote:I don't recall an "explanation". Your last bid on Baltic was $5. I don't see an explanation in your posts.

I posted this.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:SVS, though the poll does not show it, I had also voted for Dego and ninja. I bolded it in the thread.

The reason being if you vote for a player who was lynched, then you get $200 added to your bid. I was letting you know that your bid would not have meant much because you did not vote for the lynched player(s).