The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote:Nice baddie you caught, Llama.

RIP sig

Second Day in a row Tranq votes late and on the lynch train.

Fuzz missed his vote.

In addition, DH, Dom, Juliets, Mac, Blooper are also 2/2 on mislynches now.

Discuss.

Golden wrote:

FZ. wrote:Do you have any idea why it seemed like zebra knew she was going to die before it was revealed? At least that was my impression.

I don't have any theory on that, other than to say that I can see why people feel she may have known.

The way I took it at the time was that she was wifoming an unkillable role for funsies (since she seemed to be doing a few things for funsies). If we were ever able to get some kind of confirmation that she would have known, though, it would change the way we look at her suspicions.

@BR - I guess what the theory is about is a reverse seemer (is that what people call a miller?)

Black Rock wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Zebra's role isn't a seemer. She would have framed a player to show up bad on checks. That's just manipulation. A seemer would show up as good when lynched.

The speculation plausibile would be if Zebra's killer would mess with zebra's role reveal, turning it into a bad flip.

Seemer – If role-checked, the Seemer knows about it, and can decide what the role-checker sees. If lynched, the Seemer can choose what role the public perceives him as. Has no effect on alignment checks.

This to me is a Seemer. That is from A World Apart.

Ricochet wrote:Zebra's role isn't a seemer. She would have framed a player to show up bad on checks. That's just manipulation. A seemer would show up as good when lynched.

The speculation plausibile would be if Zebra's killer would mess with zebra's role reveal, turning it into a bad flip.

Long Con;1415200 wrote:
Seemer – If role-checked, the Seemer knows about it, and can decide what the role-checker sees. If lynched, the Seemer can choose what role the public perceives him as. Has no effect on alignment checks.

Golden wrote:I have to say one of the complicated things going on with me is my biggest suspects seem to be at odds.

But I will say sig saying he reads Long Con as civilian does not appear to me to be buddying up.

In fact, I hesitate to say anyone merely saying 'I read person x as civilian' without much more to it is buddying up. My own reads are not deterred simply because someone reads me a certain way (I don't stop thinking someone is civ because they think I'm bad. I don't stop thinking someone is bad because they think I'm good.)

a2thezebra wrote:Golden and I seem to be on a very similar wavelength so far this game, I can dig it.

THIS is what I call buddying up.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I just noticed MM hasn't posted this phase apart from this single thing:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:And Oh shit Cincy! Just looked at the score. Who dey

Does this OT Bengals lamentation qualify as evidence that he can't be silenced? I don't know what's typical on The Syndicate. Do silenced players tend to post in OT? I don't remember seeing it.

I've never seen silenced players allowed to post in any capacity OT or otherwise.

Au contraire.

In Harry Stephen Keeler Mafia, I cursed SVS to make a minimum of 10 posts using the smiley in it (or something to that effect). She was silenced the same night. So llama comrpomised, and said SVS could post, but only in OT green with said smiley involved.

And no, I'm not silenced, just busy. And disheartened.

HamburgerBoy wrote:

Black Rock wrote:I missed you mentioning me before and yet appear at the bottom of the orange list. WTF?

I did mention you briefly a couple times but I'll list my grievances more formal-style now:

1. You specifically called out LoRab wanting to see what she'd say, and then (the following day) accused her of not answering questions when she had in the time between. Also, you never went back and addressed things with her after saying you'd read them.
2. Your reason for voting seemed to mostly follow Epi and Sorsha's case, the latter I especially didn't buy.
3. Aside from Rico, who you ultimately declared yourself undecided on regardless, you haven't seemed to look anywhere outside of LoRab

Of course, all of that falls apart of it turns out LoRab is actually scum, and I only have meta from one game on her, but I feel a bit townier about her than you and Sorsha.

I'm glad you responded to a bunch of points just now, although I'm also noting that you didn't respond to Jimmy's insinuation that you and zebra could have been partners:

[quote="JaggedJimmyJay]BR's willingness to read Rico as neutral/town but still voice support for Zebra's case against him isn't ideal. She flirts with Rico as a suspect, never seems to fully latch on, but still endorses his demise and credits Zebra for much of her flexibility (perhaps allowing Zebra to take the blame for an eventual non-mafia flip). I am not sure this indicates a team mate relationship between Zebra and BR, but it is a bit suspicious on its own power.

Golden wrote:*alarm* BR defending LC alert!

In all seriousness though, my thoughts on BR is that she has been way more active than usual, and I've found her contributions generally positive, helpful and unique. I have a moderate town read based on the content. I'm not sure if there is anything to be read into the frequency.

I do genuinely find her defending LC slightly disconcerting, though. Not just because I am slightly suspicious of LC, but also because I think I remember BR saying something like she prefers to stay away from opinions about LC's affiliation. BR, what is it about LC that you think warrants you giving an opinion?

I think I could probably do a rainbow now if I put my mind to it. DH will love that.

Black Rock wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:I think you are on zebra's team.

I think you're a crackpot.

Long Con wrote:I think, especially in a Champions Game, a baddie curser role on the first night would not target someone who they want to silence.

Why does it matter at all that this is a champions game? That's irrelevant.

Long Con wrote:I believe that zebra targeted her teammate JJJ with the curse, because they saw an opportunity to frame Llama.

That makes no sense. First of all, if that's the strategy then the person being emoji'd has no viable method to pursue that framejob. I couldn't bloody talk! Second, Zebra made no effort herself to pursue that end, and she even pooh-poohed the notion that llama was responsible. Now we know that's because she was responsible. There's no value in trying to frame somebody if it can't actually turn into a case constructed of legible words. People did end up voting for llama, but many of them didn't actually give a reason why. They just did it.

Long Con wrote:JJJ was very sure that Llama was the one that cursed him.

I absolutely was not "very sure" llama was the one that cursed me. You've made that up. I literally said something else when Zebra herself asked me post-curse:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Cool well as long as llama willfully ignores me I'm gonna go ahead and continue trying to guide him to the guillotine.

Could you clarify why you thought/think that he cursed you?

I don't know whether llama did that. Maybe llama has team mates.

I was a threat to nobody on Night 0, being so vocally detached and lazy as I was. I made exactly one case against someone that was remotely substantive, that being llama. Llama addressed some posts in the general vicinity of that case, but never responded to anything I said. At any point. The next day I was posting in emoticons. Maybe there's a connection. Even if not, his ignorance of me is clearly deliberate at this point and I don't think town llama has any reason to ignore me. I've done nothing to insult him in any prior game, and I have not been a significant part of this game's torrent pace -- so I haven't annoyed him either. All I've done is cast suspicion upon him, both in the form of Night 0 text and Day 1 emojis.

He hasn't given me the time of day. I think he should become dead as soon as possible.

Long Con wrote:I believe they would try to pull a frame-up job.

Long Con wrote:Has he even considered that it might be an attempt to frame Llama?

Sure I have. It's not a theory I've viewed as the best theory because llama was so difficult to engage with at all -- multiple long phases of complete ignorance of everything I posted (text or emoji). It's a possibility. So is the idea that llama is on Zebra's team and she used her ability against someone threatening him. That's not at all farfetched.

It's also possible that Zebra cursed me because she could tell I didn't feel like dealing with Mafia and it'd be a fun break from the norm. If that's the case, thanks Zebra. It was fun.

I thought LC's opinion was interesting. This response just made me think he was right.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:I think you are on zebra's team.

I think you're a crackpot.

Long Con wrote:I think, especially in a Champions Game, a baddie curser role on the first night would not target someone who they want to silence.

Why does it matter at all that this is a champions game? That's irrelevant.

Long Con wrote:I believe that zebra targeted her teammate JJJ with the curse, because they saw an opportunity to frame Llama.

That makes no sense. First of all, if that's the strategy then the person being emoji'd has no viable method to pursue that framejob. I couldn't bloody talk! Second, Zebra made no effort herself to pursue that end, and she even pooh-poohed the notion that llama was responsible. Now we know that's because she was responsible. There's no value in trying to frame somebody if it can't actually turn into a case constructed of legible words. People did end up voting for llama, but many of them didn't actually give a reason why. They just did it.

Long Con wrote:JJJ was very sure that Llama was the one that cursed him.

I absolutely was not "very sure" llama was the one that cursed me. You've made that up. I literally said something else when Zebra herself asked me post-curse:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Cool well as long as llama willfully ignores me I'm gonna go ahead and continue trying to guide him to the guillotine.

Could you clarify why you thought/think that he cursed you?

I don't know whether llama did that. Maybe llama has team mates.

I was a threat to nobody on Night 0, being so vocally detached and lazy as I was. I made exactly one case against someone that was remotely substantive, that being llama. Llama addressed some posts in the general vicinity of that case, but never responded to anything I said. At any point. The next day I was posting in emoticons. Maybe there's a connection. Even if not, his ignorance of me is clearly deliberate at this point and I don't think town llama has any reason to ignore me. I've done nothing to insult him in any prior game, and I have not been a significant part of this game's torrent pace -- so I haven't annoyed him either. All I've done is cast suspicion upon him, both in the form of Night 0 text and Day 1 emojis.

He hasn't given me the time of day. I think he should become dead as soon as possible.

Long Con wrote:I believe they would try to pull a frame-up job.

Long Con wrote:Has he even considered that it might be an attempt to frame Llama?

Sure I have. It's not a theory I've viewed as the best theory because llama was so difficult to engage with at all -- multiple long phases of complete ignorance of everything I posted (text or emoji). It's a possibility. So is the idea that llama is on Zebra's team and she used her ability against someone threatening him. That's not at all farfetched.

It's also possible that Zebra cursed me because she could tell I didn't feel like dealing with Mafia and it'd be a fun break from the norm. If that's the case, thanks Zebra. It was fun.

Epignosis wrote:I'm still on Lorab. I said she cracked under pressure. I applied pressure. She disappeared. When she came back, she was sweet as sugar. I think her twirly behind got the jitters when I called her out so early.

LoRab wrote:

Matt wrote:Boomslang, I find it unlikely that there are two curse roles in a game where there were up to 60 roles (and I'm assuming, role powers) originally but was cut to 30. No doubt our hosts have all kinds of cool shit planned for this game, so why would they keep two roles, one that curses in smilies and the other that curses in questions? Overkill for a champions game, I think.

As for positions, I dunno. I didn't play Recruitment and my role has nothing to do with positions, but I suppose it's possible given Zebra's flip.

Why are so many against looking at Draconus?

juliets, were you faking your confusion earlier or was it legit?

This whole post seems to overlook a lot of options. Like a role that can use/borrow/steal other roles, as an easy example. Maybe he was faking it, or maybe there actually are more than one spell roles (perhaps on different teams), or maybe there is a role that can use other powers. I think it is short-sighted to assume that 2 people cursed means that there are 2 identical roles.

I also think it's suspish to raise this question and perhaps try to draw attention away from the curser that we know existed and from speculation about how someone else appeared to be cursed.

Epignosis wrote:I'm voting Lorab again. For now.

Thanks 3J for that...whatever it was.

If you would like to elaborate on your suspicion, that would be great.

Black Rock wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:AAAAAHHHHH WHOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEY

Now I feel bad for voting you.

Actually no I don't.

I just voted for LoRab... because she is bad. I see you have switched your vote to yourself. I hope in my future reads I see a damn good reason.

No, she is not. If you could make a case on me, so that I can explain my actions and defend myself, please do. If you think you have info on me, it isn't accurate. I'm not bad, and I'd like to be able to defend.

As for the Zebra gender question, I think it is kind of bull that someone's questions about another's gender is making them suspicious (this is a greater question than the particular question, so I'm not naming names--it's not important. It's a relevant discussion, though, so I'm not making it green. We are on a forum in which people have names that are not always typically connected to gender We all have certain assumptions about what behaviors appear to be connected to a gender. As one whose gender is frequently mislabeled, I'm attuned to that. When someone refers to me on here as he, it doesn't bother me. But I know that it can be more bothersome for others.

But why is someone's gender at all important to this game in the first place? And why do we need to be so tied to a gender binary as to think that someone has to be male or female...or to tease people for misgendering another or for being misgendered...or suspect people for not knowing the gender identity of another player.

Matters like that, in my experience, aren't often discussed in BTSC. So, a player making a false assumption about another, or using the wrong pronoun, or whatever...that doesn't make me question if they are making up a confusion that they feel. Or that they are making it purposefully seem like they don't have a connection to another player. They're just using the wrong pronoun. (which could be problematic in terms of assumptions and other matters, but has nothing to do with mafia and suspicion).

This is not to defend or suspect anyone. It's just something I've noticed that has utzed me at the moment. Maybe it's because I've spent my weekend on a seminar with 400 teenagers, preparing them to lobby on capitol hill tomorrow and be advocates for social justice, so I'm particularly noticing things. But, yeah, just wanted to say that I'm not sure why this is even a conversation.

And yes, this could have probably been green, but because it relates to a non-green conversation, I've kept it white.

Epignosis wrote:

juliets wrote:@sig - I can't say for sure that Elo was or wasn't bad but she generally doesn't like big games where there are a lot of posts and it's hard to keep up with. I haven't noticed her alignment when dropping but that's usually the reason. Epig could speak to this issue better than me I think.

She can't keep up with the posts. The volume of posts makes it impossible for a cake-making mother of three to keep up. It isn't fun for her.

I'm at my computer quite a bit, and I just now caught up to this page. It's ridiculous.

I get why Ricochet did what he did, but damn dude, there's five hundred other ways to get lynched Day 1, and none of them involve spamming to the point where there's TWENTY pages of reading to do on a NIGHT ZERO, when ordinarily, that is the time when people are checking in and voting. I lost interest my damn self. It's a chore, and now I know that your posts were just to get yourself lynched, so it sucks having spent my evenings after work reading it all to get to page forty-fucking-six for the beginning of Day 2.

A high post count for the sake of a high post count sucks, and some people don't enjoy that.

HamburgerBoy wrote:Here's my rainbow so far, people in black don't have enough content for me to judge. Far from definitive though, I expect by tomorrow many of those yellows will be in green or orange, and a couple of oranges in red.

Ricochet (in the clouds strumming his harp)

RadicalFuzz
Draconus
golden

LoRab
Epignosis
Matt
MacDougall
Boomslang
MetalMarsh
sig
Elohcin/FZ
juliets
thellama73
nijuukyugou
Dom
DrWilgy

Long Con
DharmaHelper
Sorsha
JaggedJimmyJay
Black Rock

bcornett24
Bass_the_Clever
Spacedaisy
Timmer
Tranq

Sorsha wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Thoughts on you posting a lot around the time of these deaths, actually.

I post when I have time to post. "These deaths?" Do you just mean DF? Or are you accusing me of killing zebra the baddie?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:AAAAAHHHHH WHOOOOO DEEEEEEEEEY

Now I feel bad for voting you.

Actually no I don't.

Golden wrote:Anyone play a game where paper rock scissors was relevant? It's not ringing bells with me.

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:No wonder Zebra was having the most fun observing my emoji frustration. :P

Should be some great opportunities for finding her team mates. She was highly vocal.

Having said that, as I noted yesterday, when I isoed her I found very little, despite a high post count. A lot of sparring with rico, but not a whole lot of interaction beyond that. Of course, that was up to the point in time at which I did the iso.

I had come in here intending to make zebra my first suspect today, so I need to refocus I guess.

S~V~S wrote:In other news~

dfaraday was quietly lurking about as he is wont to do, watching quietly and waiting for something to catch his eye. Generally he lasted deep into games as he was so, so blendy. Not this time.

Spoiler: show

Barry Allen - Flash~ A CIVVIE
Every Night, Barry Allen chooses a character from a 2015 Job or Side Mission. If that character is included in this game, their role will be revealed on the front page.

dfaraday has been killed by someone. Can't tell you who. Literally

Sorsha wrote:The positions set up was from Recruitment Mafia- each role had a different power each night depending on what position everyone votes on the previous night.

a2thezebra wrote:What a wonderful thing, to live. You get to eat, you get to sleep, you get to cry, you get to make friends...I hope I live for a long, long time.

Ricochet wrote:ZEEEEEEEEEEEBRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I fuken called you out, night zerone!! The magic works!!

Also, I want to formally apologise to Eloh for most likely driving her away.

Also, positions?? That doesn't sound good at all...

Ricochet wrote:Go To Hells go!

ZEBRA
B24
BASS
BLACKROCK
BOOMSLANG
DFARADAY
DHARMA
DOM
DWILGY
DRACO
ELOH
EPIG
GOLDEN
HAMBOY
JJJ
JULIETS
LONGCON
LORAB
MACDOUGALL
MATT
MM
BLOOPERS
FUZZ
RICOCHET
SIG
SORSHA
SPACEDAISY
LLAMA
TIMMER
TRANQ

a2thezebra wrote:I like Ricochet as well, but I think you're underestimating the negative power of distractions.

Ricochet wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Long Con wrote:I am going to work now, changing my vote from Boomslang to Llama, for a more relevant opinion. I'm totally cool with Blue Eye being lynched though. He just scares me so I'm staying away.

If I vote Llama, will the triple voter in your team do the same and save me?

For example.

No understande.

I could still kill Long Con and "save" this wasted day, btw.

Ricochet wrote:I still don't get why you're voting LoRab over me, if I have wasted your precious day of baddie hunting. Has she?

Tranq wrote:No.

Ricochet wrote:I still don't get why you're voting LoRab over me, if I have wasted your precious day of baddie hunting. Has she?

Ricochet wrote:

Long Con wrote:I am going to work now, changing my vote from Boomslang to Llama, for a more relevant opinion. I'm totally cool with Blue Eye being lynched though. He just scares me so I'm staying away.

If I vote Llama, will the triple voter in your team do the same and save me?

Ricochet wrote:

Golden wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:What I was looking for was more the specific instances of his behavior. I did see your early day 0 poll post concerning his dismissal-yet-concern over the results, so I'll acknowledge that as a reasonable point, especially since I'm not in a position to discuss previous roles on the Syndicate (except Xander I guess). That one aside, and that he's now apparently given up, what is so unfathomable? So he cherry-picked some stuff involving Zebra's day 0 meta, not great, but arguments with Zebra always end up long and impassioned. I don't see it as unfathomable that he might get caught up in some silly argument as a town player.

Rico is not making poor arguments.

He isn't making arguments at all.

He is merely spouting nonsense and being a distraction. He says he is trying to catch baddies, but he has put literally zero effort into it. Not one of his cases demonstrates any attempt at any critical thought. The only thing he is putting effort into is being a distraction.

I see no civ motivation for that, and despite all of your defences of rico, and saying you think my question is manipluative or whatever, you (and anyone else) still haven't actually been able to present any sensible objective civ theoretical motivation for that behaviour.

In all seriousness, I'm beginning to be sorrowed by your willignness to put me down for the same reason you were lynched in Recruitement so badly - playing the game your way, to the best of your powers, with full confidence in being on the right path of exposing baddies. That's, frankly, what's unfathomable.

Sorsha wrote:I read your response LoRab (not quoting because it is so huge) you always have a way of making things seem so rational and I usually can be swayed to see things how you see them. I'm going to stick with my gut for today though and vote for you.

I've not had enough time (and won't before poll closes) to catch up over the past few pages but I'll be able to over the weekend and hopefully have some stronger suspicions then.

votes LoRab

LoRab wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:
Btw, everyone going after Lorab for her twirl is awkward. Lorab's twirl is fun, IMO, whether she's good or bad. I've never once thought she was good or bad because of it, but it's fun, you meanies!

Good luck making a case on her, then. I'd literally pay money to watch.

She is building the case herself. As far as I'm concerned she is making excuses and avoiding answering anyone's questions or concerns. That sounds like baddie LoRab to me.

Although I enjoyed your twirlaholic funs, LoRab. I'm not impressed that you didn't address anything last night. It's been a long time since I have had such strong baddie vibes from you.

I fell asleep last night. Did I miss questions in my post a little while ago? What haven't I addressed? Seriously, please let me know so I can answer. I answered the posts I saw that had specific things to say about me. I didn't see any other posts that raised anything else. What else can I address?

Your vibes about me are wrong.

linkitis: Fair enough. I was a bit confused that you said I didn't answer anything.

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:
Btw, everyone going after Lorab for her twirl is awkward. Lorab's twirl is fun, IMO, whether she's good or bad. I've never once thought she was good or bad because of it, but it's fun, you meanies!

Good luck making a case on her, then. I'd literally pay money to watch.

Turnip Head wrote:This is not the 2015 Game of Nerds

But I love nerds, and this thread is already unreadable as is, and I'm drunk, so carry on

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:How many baddies do you think there are Mac?

Depends how many teams there are. If there is 1 team there's probably 5 or 6 baddies and a shit ton of independents. Unlikely.

If there are 2 teams then there are probably 2 teams of 5. So 10 Mafia. Perhaps 2 teams of 4 if there are lots of independents.

Perhaps even 3 teams of 4?

Hard to say. I hadn't really thought much about it until now. What's the purpose of the question?

Agree with the first.

If the second is true, I think 4 each is more probable. Unless the civvie roles are uber-powered (and supported by Indies).

3 teams of 4? Now that's just silly. :P Right?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:How many baddies do you think there are Mac?

Ricochet wrote:Christ, I can't even go to sleep already and this is how I'm treated.



Stop being rued and lynch the baddies I caught. Even a semblance of hunting them down.

LoRab wrote:Ugh. Just got home from a long day at work during which I had no time to mafia--so just read through everything since last night. Waiting for dinner to get here and will then answer the points made about me. In short, I'll say I'm not bad. I have nothing to hide. Eye me all you want. *twirls*

But, yeah, I'll go back and quote posts and make an actual defense when I'm on a full stomach.

Ricochet wrote:

Boomslang wrote:
Linki @Rico: What makes you say that? There have certainly been indie roles in the games from which this one is drawing.

I wouldn't want any win-grab or special-powered mofo indy to win either. But right now I'm focused on rooting for the baddies.

Sorsha wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I'm fairly certain there are two curse roles, even if Draconus and/or JJJ is faking their curse.

BR was also underlining the word "crap" when she used it in her posts today also.. Another curse?

I looked at the night 0 poll to see if they all voted the same and they did, but I also voted the same option as they did and I'm not cursed so

@Matt- that was the same thing I noticed about MM but I'm not convinced that assuming there is more than one baddie team in a 30 player game is enough to convince me he's guilty.

a2thezebra wrote:I'm fairly certain there are two curse roles, even if Draconus and/or JJJ is faking their curse.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

sig wrote:@BK I agree that my one post (not posts) wasn't contributory, however I disagree with DH and Llama that I purposeful did a post in this way to make it appear like I was contributing, thus looking scummy since I appear to be contributing but I'm not. Which I wasn't doing I was just being jokey to be jokey.