The Syndicate

juliets wrote:oh yes I forgot to congratulate BR, unfurl, llama, bullz, SVS, daisy, russti and hedge for doing such a great job of keeping yourselves out of trouble, not making any mistakes. Whoever it was that commented on looking at BR because she said she was looking for LC in one of the cities was right on target. You guys did a great job and yay for your win!

This, tbqh. I didn't have a fucking clue about anyone the entire game. It was like, Day 10 and I was operating under the assumption that we had Tyler and maybe like 1 recruit to find.


I was apparently rather....off in my summation.

Excellent playing by Team Tyler.

S~V~S wrote:Canuck, it was totally strategy, once we found the cops, then the PI. the only non stratgy recruit I can think of was Bullz, and I asked to recruit him because he specifically asked to be recruited.

I wanted to kill more cops (ANARCHY!!) And recruit more civs , but recruits were pretty much a sure thing, kills weren't and the cops had to go.

Totes. I get it and am not biter (honestly, I'm' not).
I'm not whining about not being recruited personally, it's more like I'm whining about the fact that there will always be those who are unrecruited, or recruited last, in recruitment games, and just wondering if there might be a complementary mechanic that hosts could employ to keep those Stalwart Civs-to-the-end from feeling like they're sitting at the party table with just a fork and a plate while everyone else is eating cake.



.... .......


Pardon me. Must go eat cake now.

^^^^That really, really, really sounds whiny and petty and I didn't mean it to and I tried not to make it so.....but it still comes across as petulant.



.....so how about you all just imagine that I'm saying those words wearing a silly hat and a false moustache?

It's so funny.....reading through all this stuff I can see how this game must have been awesome for those of you who were involved in it, and how there was so much going on BTS, and it looks like so much fun!



.....but as an unrecruited civilian (one of the only ones left by the end of the game, it seems) who had no connection to any of the funsies, it was really hard to stay involved/invested in the game, and it (honestly) felt pretty blah from my point of view. Flashbacks of being picked last on the playground, or of being on the outside of the cool group and all that... :P




Seriously, though. I don't mean this as a criticism of MP in particular (I totally recognize and appreciate the work and skill and craft that went into making this game, and it's clear that almost everyone had a great time with it), but it is a thing that I notice with games with central recruitment mechanisms: it often feels like the dichotomy between the civs (isolated, uncertain, etc) and the baddies (who get a much more communal/co-operative experience) which is inherent to mafia becomes amplified 10000-fold in recruitment games, where the civs often have no or little powers, and any basis for trusting your colleagues is inherently undermined by the fact that they could be recruited at any time. It really does feel to me that being unrecruited in these types of games is like playing an entirely different (and totally less fun) game than everyone else is playing, which is frustrating and alienating. It's an issue with the recruitment mechanic itself, I think, and I'd honestly love to see hosts try some creative ways to stem the inevitable isolation and disconnection that can occur as a civ when you KNOW that there's so much of the game going on that you really have no part in. Maybe this has been attempted already during my (long) mafia hiatus....or maybe I'm the only one who finds it problematic? I dunno. Just my thoughts on the issue


Does that make sense at all?? Again, I'm not trying to shit on MP and his game, just musing about how the really cool mechanic of recruiting (which I have had GREAT fun with as a recruiter and a recruit) can be made equally fun for the other side.....

Anywho...

I voted 5, because reasons.

Yeah, I've got no problem with MP killing as many no-shows as his little heart desires (and I say this as a total no-show for the last bajillion days). Yeah, it hurts te cubs on an in-game level, but at te meta level of having real consequences for signing up and not participating, I actually really like it. Thumbs up, MP.
(....and noooooooo, of course this is just an attempt to butter you up to make you not mod kill me )

Anywho, I'd like to put myself forward for a fight for the following reasons:
- I have a niggling suspicion that killing Tyler isn't going to be a normal process. I mentioned one theory earlier, but I'm also considering as other have before that maybe Tyler needs to be defeated in mortal combat. I would like to put myself forward for this because a) I think my fighting level might be among the higher levels of the players remaining, b) I think a strong fighter is the only one with a chance against Tyler, c) I have been useless to the cvs thus far and would like a chance to atone, and d) I am a martyr


So my suggestion is that everyone vote for me to fight whoever we think is most likely to be Tyler. Right now, I think that's unfurl, but for this purpose I'm willing to go along with whatever consensus emerges (that is, of course, assuming you don't just laugh at me and tell me to fuck off)

I just missed polls in both games in playing while sitting around reading and posting.

I think I deserve to be fired.

So. Wacky-thoughts time.

I've been thinking a little about Fight Cub lately (not only because of this game...I'm also teaching the film this semester so I'm kinda obligated to think about it )......and I'm a little concerned about the "big plot twist" in the film and how it might play out in this game.

Crazy theory that I KNOW is going to get me lynched:
I think in order to kill Tyler, we need to lynch the narrator.

thellama73 wrote: On a side note, I tend to take people's RL excuses at face value, but the cynic in me finds it a bit weird that BWT, Bullz, and Hedge all posted in a row about not being able to be around much today. It almost seems like people are fleeing in order to avoid being discussed.

I think it almost seems like people are fleeing because it's a weekend, and people do things on weekends.

timmer wrote:Canucklehead. She replaced FH who was a complete no-show in the game for days. That makes the entire early phase of the game a bit of a wash. One thing I notice reading through Canuckle's posts is a strong tendency towards fluff posts. Lots of "IMMA FIGHT! ROAR!" type goofiness, a few questions on the game's mechanics early on, but there really isn't a ton of meat to anything she's posted. In fact, Canuckle has no major posts about finding Tyler of anything, until WABAM, this monster:

*snip*

That's one hell of a post for someone who hasn't said anything about anything but jokes and fights.

Plus, interesting note: since Day 8 Canuckle has had 9 posts in this game. She's had 23 in Misfits Mafia.

Considering that huge post above, I could see Canuckle being a recruit around night 7. She's a high fight level after winning a fight and suddenly there's that monster post but not much else.

I'd bet Canuckle is a recruit, but I give her no chance at being Tyler, I don't think Alex would have allowed such a role to be dormant for the first 3 days of the game.

This is the épitomé of a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" post for me.

I'm bad because I only joke and want to fight, but I'm also bad if I put in the effort to make a post outlining my thoughts? Ok. If that's the case, I'm going back to joking and fluff posts cuz they're way more fun.




I'm not a recruit, Timmer. I'm a disengaged civ. I've posted more in Misfirs because more is going on there that is diectly relevant to me.

Hi!! I'm sitting at te SSA on a GORGEOUS Friday afternoon! Joyful!
Seems like a good time to mafia-up...

Back in a few....

Kylemii wrote:*snip* ...
...both LC and DH, both of whom are players with that sort of charismatic and active playstyle and are generally well liked by most if not all

Speak for yourself, sugar.

Well fuck.
That's two votes I've missed in two games in as many days.

Sorry, everyone. I was in a pedagogy workshop and was actually really focused on that (abject terror for my upcoming first ever teaching of a university course is a really strong motivator and attention-focuser, it turns out) and did not even think about there being a vote today.

I'm sure MP will have some horrible torture planned for me.

Well golly. That was a heavy reading load, and my semester hasn't even started yet.

Because I am supposed to be constructing a syllabus right now from which I will impart knowledge to the future leaders of America, and not playing mafia, I am going to be very brief here and just touch on my thoughts of some of the names that are being tossed around and the debates that are going on:

SVS/llama: this back and forth reads like it contains a lot of tension from a history of playing together. While I think (?) I agree more with SVS's POV on the issues discussed, that doesn't actually make me think llama is bad. I don't agree neccessarily with his thoughts on who Tyler is/was likely to recruit, I also don't really think holding those theories makes him likely to be bad. I don't know llama's style at all, but I would imagine that a baddie who was pushed so hard on a contentious issue would only put up a facade of a fight before acquiesing to the pressure and backing down in order to seem more "reasonable"/less lynch worthy. Llama's stubborness, and the increasing clarity with which he defins and defends his position actually make me think he's probably civ (though still possibly misguided in holding on to his recruitment theory)

Long Con/llama: I can't remember when LC voted for Dom, but I think it was fairly early?? (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I agree with many that it was a bit of a weak rationale for a vote, and seemed quite unlike LC...but I'm not sure I'm ready to vote for him yet. I don't usually find his posting or play style to be all that different from game to game regardless of his alignment, so his vociferous engagement with llama doesn't ping me as out of the ordinary. The Dom vote is weird, but I think there are other weirder things going on in the thread. As for llama, see above. I'm actually not suspicious of him, and think his exchange with LC is getting heated just because it seems to be two vocal, stubborn, and self-consciously incendiary players butting heads for the first time. If it comes down to a LC/llama tie-breaker, I'd throw my vote at LC, but I hope I don't have to.

Where I DO think I might want to throw a vote is at Vomps. I think Timmer's post was really interesting, and while I struggle to think why Tyler would recruit such a seemingly unpredictable and non-participatory player, the voting record is odd. Somewhat paradoxically, however, I ALSO find myself inclined to be a little suspicious of Timmer's sudden push for Vomps. Perhaps a case concocted to try and distract the thread from the other battles that are raging and get people's attention onto someone who, as a low poster and apparent wild card, might be an easy target and easy vote for those who are skimming through??

Long story short, I'm really really divided about Timmer/Vomps, and will probably come down on one side or another of that fence for today's vote.

How odd. I know exactly why/how I won my fight.
Don't know why Elochin died, but I do know why I won....curious that that is not a universal experience. :hmmm:

Sorsha: have you fought yet?

S~V~S wrote:The only way I could see it working for Mayhem without BTS would be if maybe Tyler knew who they were, and could send directions or something like in the movie. You never know who might have been in Project Mayhem in the movie, it could be the guy sitting next to you on the train. Only Tyler know who everyone was.

So this could be a plausible scenario~ but the whole point of Mafia is the uninformed majority against the informed minority. So based on similarity to the movie, it is possible, but only if Tyler can direct the recruits in some way.

Ooooooooooooh! This actually sounds really likely, to me. I haven't watched the movie in ages (though I REALLY need to since it's on the syllabus for a class I designed/am teaching this semester :lol: ) so I don't remember that detail exactly, but that actually sounds like a really interesting dynamic for a mafia game. It makes trying to find connections between Project Mayhem people a damn shitshow for the civs......but that's not unusual for mafia, now is it? :P

I submit to the groupthink! All hail the MRKeter battle!

Sorsha wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

And yes, I'd like to see what would happen if the two players who have killed people would do to one another if they fought. Hopefully we would learn something because this game is going to shit quick for the townies.

.....orrrrrrr you want to see us fight because you're scared of the strength we've gained? Worried that you or your boss won't be able to beat us if/when he has to fight one of us? Trying to turn civvies against the two people who are probably their most capable protectors in the event of a Tyler fight?

......orrrrrrrr I think one, if not both of you, us bad.

I think Tyler would be smart to have chosen either of you as a recruit.

Welp, since I have only just recently proved my machismo and prowess (though I knew I had it in my soul deep down all along ), I'm guessing you think unfurl is the baddie here? I can only assume that's what your implying, since if you're suggesting that Tyler is recruiting strong fighters than Tyler would surely not have recruited me when the only thing I'd done all game was to LOSE a fight to the Great Spaghetti Monster or some such equally non-pugilisitcally-named character. Whether he tries to recruit me now that I've won and proven myself to be a badass motherfucker, I obviously have no control over. But your suspicion of me by the logic presented above (if that is what you are implying) is not so convincing.

Fwiw, I absolutely do not think unfurl is a baddie, and while I am totally willing to fight again, I do not think having me (an unrecruited civ) fight her (who I believe is also an unrecruited civ) and possibly kill one of us (thus losing our AWESOME STRENGTH AND MAJESTY from the civ team) is really a good idea.

I'll fight you, though, if you want.

Sorsha wrote:

And yes, I'd like to see what would happen if the two players who have killed people would do to one another if they fought. Hopefully we would learn something because this game is going to shit quick for the townies.

.....orrrrrrr you want to see us fight because you're scared of the strength we've gained? Worried that you or your boss won't be able to beat us if/when he has to fight one of us? Trying to turn civvies against the two people who are probably their most capable protectors in the event of a Tyler fight?

Fight me at your own peril, turd burglars.

Imma vote for Elochin. She's been super absent, and possibly missed sending I her kill PM last night.








Basically random...but with the semblance of reason!

Wowzers. So much randomity (yes that's a word).
That makes me pouty because I was going to vote random and now it will look bad if I do. :pouts:

I think I will go ahead and consider my earlier half-baked theory (which no one seems to like or comment on :doublepout: ) and vote for someone who would desire balancing out their own strengths with a loudy louderson like DH.....

*ponders*

unfurl wrote:
Canucklehead
Good thing you are among the less likely to be Tyler in my list then Canuck cause I like not being recruited

Good to see you more input of you btw, I was waiting to read more from you, cause you do make good contributions full of things to consider and think about like below

You mention that people that behave like DH may be tyler recruit, do you have names in particular?

My initial thoughts of DH-esque recruits (in terms of experience, talkativeness, etc.) would be folks like SVS, Long Don, maybe Dom??, maybe Sorsha??, maybe Space Daisy??
I dunno. I'm no longer totally familiar with everyone's style, since its been so long since I've played. The answers above are essentially just people I remember as being very involved/talkative in previous games many many moons ago, but I have no idea if they still play that way (or if I'm remembering wrong), and certainly someone like Long Con hasn't really taken on much of a leadership role this game, so Maybe he's trying to lay low to deflect precisely this type of suspicion, but I'm not really ready to pursue that line of thought at the moment, on him or anyone else, but I am absoutely keeping it in mind as one of the factors I'm considering.

I'm kind of more interested in speculating about who might want to recruit a loudmouth like DH ( :P ).....and in that respect I'm going to need to rely on the expertise of you folks since I don't really know a lot of the players here. I plan on taking a look at the various post counts/participation levels in this game to see who is playing "quiet".....but what I'm REALLY interested in knowing is if someone who is normally a quiet/uninvolved/non-dominating presence in the thread has upped their game/involvement for this game. To me, that coupled with the recruitment of a loud/gregarious player would be a really interesting combination, since it combines the excitement of having an awesome role and therefore posting more/being more invested in the game with the desire to recruit someone who is very unlike oneself and therefore try to avoid being connected to them.

That's my current line of thinking, fwiw. If anyone has any insights on players who have made subtle increases to their contribution/enthusiasm level this game, that would be great to hear about. I just don't know any of these players well enough to be a solid judge of that on my own.

S~V~S wrote:


"drummed-up meta-defensiveness over lazy quoting" what does that even mean? That could describe this whole game, not just me. And she has been in no danger of being lynched. Everyone else has their own weak cases to flog

To be honest, I can see both sides of this. Being misquoted is obnoxious, BUT I am just going on how things feel to me. I really honestly feel that DH was recruited earlier rather than late, based on his crazy split on being homethread centric. I reread his Day One/Day Two threads exhaustively, and all of his interactions with the people he was in contact with those days, and of everything, this is what most struck me. I agree with whoever said that it was weird that DH was asking Aces to follow him to Penns Grove, like maybe he was meeting Tyler there to recruit Aces (who did not more forward)~ the interaction that got my atttention happened there. I thought it was suspicious~ What do you want me to say? You can't help what catches your eye; this caught mine.

I find it weird that I specifically am being called out for mischaracterizing someones posts when ALL of the suspicion in this game has been based on proximity and interactions with/about DH. The case on Blooper, who you voted for, LC, was not dissimilar.

I am willing to let go of a bone, and admit it is a weak bone, since this thread is littered with weak bones. But like I said, every other suspicion has been equally weak. At least this weak bone was mine.

Someone last night said maybe fixating on specific days is a mistake, or something to that effect. Well, lets do some brainstorming. Who would WANT to recruit DH? He's a strong player, well known to both the old school players and the new. In every thread he was in, he was a dominant player, so he would catch the attention of even a recruiter who was unfamiliar with him. So maybe we need to be looking at bolder players; maybe Tyler likes them flashy . I still think the proximity thing holds water, if we can even get another recruit, that might help triangulate a position for Tyler.

I am not sure if anyone has asked this question; @MP~ can the cops check the same person more than once?

Re: who would want to recruit DH: I am very much of the opinion that DH was recruited precisely for his loudness/obnoxiousness (Love you, girl/wackyness, and my hunch is that Tyler was seeking these qualities because s/he is NOT naturally disposed towards that jokey/dominant gameplay. For example, I know for sure that if I were Tyler (and assuming I'd matured from my previous mafia policy of rewarding hilarity.....which I totally have NOT matured from, by the way ) my strategy would be to recruit a player who was sweet/nice, took the game seriously, was very involved in theories and suspicions, and was a fairly high-poster. I would do this because my style is usually to be bitchy/horrible, to never take anything seriously, very rarely contribute to the paranoia/suspicions/etc, and post only two or three times per day. To be quite honest, I would recruit Bea or unfurl as my first recruit because they are both the polar opposite of my playstyle (That's totally a compliment, chicas. No one wants to play like me )This is because I would want my teammates to be always at arm's length from me, and the best way I would have of doing that would be to eliminate even the subconscious connections that players could create between us due to similar playstyles/tones.

Long story short: I think we're looking for a Tyler who is fairly quiet/fairly serious/fairly thoughtful. I think further recruits will possibly be similar to DH in that they are experienced and confident, but perhaps a little more serious in tone.

I know many (most) of you will dismiss this theory as silly, and possibly even be upset by the fact that such a theory seems to punish prominent players just for being prominent.......but I really think that this dynamic (of attempting to guess how the recruiter is going to operate, who they would want to choose) is an inherent part of a recruitment focused game....so there! :P

timmer wrote:
As for peolpe following my votes, I think the majority are people who just aren't that active and maybe they glommed onto a theory that seemed passable. I remember the short tim eI played the recent Recruitment Mafia game, I had no purpose snice I hadn't ben recruited and I just kind of played "meh" because I had no one to root for. In this game, there are a lot of people with no real role, who may be feeling the same way. Could Tyler Durden or the Project Mayhem recruits jumped on my votes as well? Absolutely, but I don't see how to pinpoint them

I think this is actually a really valid point. I'd wager that the majority of mafia players (not all, but the majority) can't really help but be much less invested in a game where they are not only powerless but also (because almost everyone else on their team is powerless, too) pretty much directionless. Perhaps it's too obvious to even mention, but I would be very unsurprised if Tyler and his recruits are among the more involved/chatty/focused players in the game.
I don't mean to suggest that ALL the baddies are the high posters, or that there are no baddies attempting the fly under the radar strategy....but I think I am going to be much less inclined to suspect the disinterested/blendy players for precisely the reasons Timmer suggests.

bea wrote:
I keep thinking "who would be likely to be recruited?" but that feels like a bad hornets nest to step into as well so I keep trying to push that thought out of my head as a reason to be suspicious of people.

To be quite honest, this is precisely the kind of hornets nest I do feel like stepping in to. The only thing we know FOR CERTAIN is that DH was recruited. We don't know when or how, only that DH is the kind of player our Tyler wanted on his team. Based on that knowledge, I'm totally willing to spend some time speculating about what other players Tyler might also have wanted. I think there's just as much merit in wildly fabricating scenarios that attempt to psychologize Tyler's recruitment strategy as there is in fabricating scenarios that attempt to justify his recruitment opportunities. The benefit of the former is that we (or at least some of us) have pretty reasonable ideas about how some other players play the game, while we have no idea about how MP set up the mechanics.

*flexes awesome muscles*
*looks super tough*
*inspires fear*

Bea: Technically "I" (i.e. my persona in this game) have actually fought. FH fought and lost on Night 3 (?)....but "I" (i.e. Canucklehead) have not fought...and am not privy to the info/process/what went on during FH's fight (other than knowing that she lost)..and I'm curious about what happens....and I want to do it.....and I have violent urges that I cannot control and would like to take them out on somebody.

Vote for me!

insertnamehere wrote:Voting Elo

Bullzeye wrote:INH, aren't you dead?

This is my favourite thing that has ever happened in a game of Mafia.

I love you, kylemii. I will never vote for you again as long as I live ever.

I WANT TO HIT SOMEONE! Vote for me to fight, you turds!

I randomized! Among those who already had votes! Voted ninjuuuuu! Hooray!

I attempted to vote for myself twice. I was disappointed it was not an option. Life is cruel and unfair.

SVS: really interesting observation. Perhaps MP can clarify if Juliet's absence from the polls was a mistake? :endearing smile:

I want to fight.
I am a weakling, and wish to prove my manliness through physical violence. I firmly believe that my worth as a human is directly tied to my ability to physically dominate another person. Please allow me to enact my latent desires by pummeling a fellow player into a weeping, bloody husk of muddled flesh.

Wot.

I think the bullz bandwagon is weird, even for a Day-5-that-is-basically-Day-1 lynch. I absolutely do not get the case against him, and I will vote for someone who has voted for bullz because I have to vote now and that's the most wacky thing to me.
I'm going to vote for kylemi because he was first to jump on the bandwagon, without providing anything convincing (though that may be because he is insanified??).....so, yeah. I don't feel strongly about this vote, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway.

Sorsha's idea of the recruit pool possibly being formed from fight winners is an interesting one, for sure. I'm not willing to only look at fight winners, of course (and I don't think Sorsha was suggesting this at all)...but it's a nifty theory and I am definitely willing to play around with it in my brain for a while.

So far I've only read my original thread (Jersey REPRESENNTTT!) and Wilmington. The only thing that stuck out to me was llama, who is hilarious and should be kept in te game as long as possible because funny people are awesome.

Also, on Day 4 a bunch of people began talking about going to Chicago...but there is no Chicago thread. Does that mean we're in Chicago now? Or I am missing something embarrassingly obvious?

I spent most of my time in my original thread whingeing about how there was nothing to read.


And now there are 12 billion new threads to catch up on.




You are a cruel, cruel mistress, MP.
Be careful what you wish for, kiddies.