The Syndicate

Bullzeye wrote:I'll trust in the collective consciousness of everyone and go there with my vote.

Ooh I do not like this collective consciousness thinking. It makes me super nervous when everyone's ok with voting someone.

Well I guess not just for now since we can't change votes.

I am okay-ish with a LoRab vote. I suspected her the most right after Bea was lynched, so maybe it's like multiple choice questions on tests. Always go with your first instinct unless you know for sure it is wrong because most of the time you change it to the wrong answer. So I'm going to vote LoRab for now.

Boogs wrote:Please don't start distrusting me.

Do you know why I trust you, Boogs? Yes/no answer is enough.

Boogs wrote:On the flip side, Lorab saying she "had to vote me" is a lie. When LC and Myself were the ones it was a tie against. She was blending in and I think she or Bullz should be considered for tomorrow.

I'm still not too sure about Bullz, I think he could possibly be good. I am probably okay with a LoRab vote, though I think there are lots of baddies all over the place so we really have to watch out.

Bullzeye wrote:

juliets wrote:Well, he's right - I'm not bad. But I'm not wanting to talk at night anymore in this game. Dana, if you can find something you think I have not explained then please bring it up and I will do so after night ends.

The only way he knows if you're bad or good is if he has btsc with you. He's just guessing but acting like he knows.

This is untrue. There are other ways to know if someone is good or bad.

juliets wrote:Thank you Rox and DP for a great game. I thoroughly enjoyed it and would play another Rox DP game in the future. And good luck Dana.

Nooooooo
So alone in the big scary mafia game

Bullzeye wrote:

Dana wrote:Bullz, what do you think about Juliets?

She was my prime suspicion early on for her blendiness and the fact she was very unwilling to jump into the Llama/Made debate to the point she seemed annoyed at being asked for her perspective. I thought she got pretty defensive about it when called out but then there wasn't much support for a JC lynch and she sort of dropped off my radar but I do still think she has recently been trying to buddy up to you and Boogs, which also catches my eye.

That does make a lot of sense. I'm still pretty unsure about her, and I can't remember how I felt about her very early on. I think I might go back and look at the first few days again now that so many roles have been revealed, maybe it will help somehow. For the moment, I'm going to stick with the most likely explanation that Boogs is good but just doesn't know what he's talking about (and possibly never had definite information at all?). But I would maybe consider a Juliets vote because I trust her at the moment.

Bullz, what do you think about Juliets?

Boogs wrote:LC if what you say is true, then I understand you aren't bad. However, it still leaves Bullz on my list. Im trying to consider what's left. Lorab's vote for me VS you stood out to me for her needing Civs dead. How do you and everyone else feel about Lorab tomorrow maybe?

So you say you felt 100% about LC but he had a lynch save so now he's not bad? That is very suspicious, Boogs. Why do you keep going back and forth on people so much? I'm hesitant now to blindly accept your 100% about Juliets too.

Aaaaaaah I am so confused!

Screenshot for you DisPor.

Also can't change votes again

Bullzeye wrote:I don't understand what you mean about the kill?

I don't want to get modkilled for sharing info and I feel I might be dangerously close. I won't ask you to blindly trust me, of course, but I believe Boogs isn't a recruit more strongly today than I did yesterday.

Bullzeye wrote:I think I distrust JC because she's always been someone at the back of my mind throughout the game, I keep coming back to her and brushing it off or forgetting every now and then. LoRab and Canuck are actually two people I've been thinking of as civ for the majority of the game. I'm generally less sure about everyone now because the people I think might be good and the people I think might be bad don't add up. I could see one of those two possibly being bad but I'm not sure both are. LC is suspicious of them for the same reason, right? I don't think two baddies on a team would both use the same very noticeable tactic. I don't trust Boogs at all as you know. Since I know he has claimed info he doesn't really have, even if your trust in him is accurate I still won't trust him myself and don't think others ought to follow him so readily. As you point out, he trusted Bea. He's not infallible.

I definitely know what you mean with doubting your own opinions. This is a really difficult game sometimes. I think I'm going to vote LC to save Boogs because even though I'm not completely sure LC is bad, we really can't afford to kill another good guy today.

Bullzeye wrote:

Dana wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:The thing about Boogs is that if by some random happenstance he actually is civ, he's still not a very good one. You can't ignore the blatant lies like the fake curse, or how he claimed info on me (saying he knew I was bad and repeatedly hinting at info, which I alone know isn't true. He also vouched for Bea, a known baddie). I don't really believe that he is a civ because his behaviour throughout the game has been the opposite of civ-friendly.

I'm not going to comment on how good of a civ he is, but like I said before, I totally see where you're coming from. If I didn't know the things I do, I would be right there voting with you. But I can't just ignore information and lynch someone who at least was a civ, and most likely/most logically still is one.

Well we know there has been one recruit, why not another? Makes sense in my opinion. Boogs was relatively normal until about halfway through the game. Also, how do you feel about the way JC is talking to you lately about how you both supposedly have info? I thought it was weird to begin with but since you don't seem to know what she's talking about it seems even stranger, like she's trying to somehow get on your good side or something.

I'm not denying that there's probably another recruit, but I have a good reason to believe that it's not Boogs, because I don't think the baddies would waste a kill so near the end of the game just to gain some trust when I already trust him. And that's also assuming that they would know that I would know, which I doubt is what's happening, so I do think he's still good. I'm unsure about JC, but I trust Boogs and Boogs trusts JC, so I guess I trust her by extension. But then again he trusted Bea too. What do you think about LoRab and Canuck (LC's main suspects)?

LoRab wrote:LC: Still wrong about me.

I need to vote now, even though I wish I could wait. But I have to go teach. I'm voting Boogs. Partly because I want to vote someone who already has votes because I have a vote on me. I've also been suspicious of him for a while, and he hasn't made me feel any better about him.

I know you're not staying for long, but if you have a chance to answer, what do you think about LC? Do you think it's likely he would vote for Bea if they were on the same team to distance himself from her? Or would he have voted Boogs to try and keep her alive? Especially this late in the game, I don't see why he would lynch his teammate.

Bullzeye wrote:The thing about Boogs is that if by some random happenstance he actually is civ, he's still not a very good one. You can't ignore the blatant lies like the fake curse, or how he claimed info on me (saying he knew I was bad and repeatedly hinting at info, which I alone know isn't true. He also vouched for Bea, a known baddie). I don't really believe that he is a civ because his behaviour throughout the game has been the opposite of civ-friendly.

I'm not going to comment on how good of a civ he is, but like I said before, I totally see where you're coming from. If I didn't know the things I do, I would be right there voting with you. But I can't just ignore information and lynch someone who at least was a civ, and most likely/most logically still is one.

juliets wrote:The thing about recruits is just because one mafia team has one it doesn't mean a second mafia team has one as well. Usually you balance a recruit with stronger powers for the people on the other team because they have one less person. I tend to lean more toward two teams because with 25 people and a ratio of 1/3 mafia that would come out to enough for two teams. Also, in many games if there are two teams and they draw down to like one member of one team and 2 members of the other the hosts will combine them into one team giving them both night kills. There is just so much unknown here I don't know what to think.

Hmm. But two teams and two serial killers too? That kind of seems like a lot. Maybe I'm just trying to be optimisic and hope there's only one team so this will be easier for us.

juliets wrote:Dana, I think we each have one piece of evidence known to us and no one else about Boogs being good. You say you know him to be good which could just be something you say so we will believe with you, and I say he is good because he is 100% right with my alignment which only I know to be true.

Are you saying you know he is good because he is sure that you are good or is there something else that's given you a reason to believe he's good?

juliets wrote:As I think about it though, even though each of our pieces of evidence are unverifiable by anyone else we don't have similar info on any of the other players. This brings me to decide to trust that Boogs is good.

What do you mean by this? As in, how do you know this?

juliets wrote:The thing I'm still bothered by is he is saying he "feels" he is 100% sure of LC and Bullz which is different from the way he expressed the 100% certainty about me. There was no "feels" in it. So I'm still going around and around. Are you feeling any more clear on which way to go for a vote? Whichever way we go I think we ought to go that way together, but my feeling at the moment is to just toss a coin in the air. I'm certainly not pressuring you to vote my way because my way is so unclear, but I am interested in what direction you feel you are going in.

That does bother me a little bit too, but I think I may possibly vote for LC today, because I trusted him quite a bit around the time Bea was lynched. Though, of course, I could be wrong, and since we don't know how many baddies are left, this could be our last chance so I want to make sure to get it right.

I feel like I'm thinking in circles. I know Boogs isn't bad, but I can think of a possible (though probably extremely unlikely) scenario where he might be a recruit. But it would mean that he would have to have more information than I think he does. So I'm going to stick with the most logical conclusion that Boogs is still a civ.

I'm currently thinking there are maybe 3 or so baddies left. I haven't seen the movie since I was a little kid, so I don't remember anything really, but is there another group of villains in the movie? With 25 players, one was an even night killer, one was an odd night killer, and one team of mafia with 2 or 3 people and some recruits. That sounds pretty even to me. I think.

juliets wrote:Bullz are you around today? Do you have any opinions based on what we've got re: who you might vote today?

Bullz has already voted for Boogs, and Boogs has already voted for LC.

Boogs, would you have said yesterday that you were 100% sure that Bea was good?

Quotes for clarity:

Boogs wrote:

Dana wrote:How certain are you about Juliets, Boogs? You know know or you just think so?

100% sure if that answers suffices.

Boogs wrote:Furthermore Bullzeye, like in any game i can say i think _____ or know ______ and its merely speculating until i would actually infodump and say "I know A is bad because I checked them so let's kill them" or "B is civ because the host messaged me" and i havent done any dumping but say i think and i know which have no reasonings behind them or such so what i say can be hogwash because its a game about lying and deception and people claim they feel things all the time.

The fact that he said what he's saying has no reasoning behind it (bolded) is the only thing that's making me rethink a bit. But 100% certain is very very certain, so I'm not really sure what to do or who to vote for today.

juliets wrote:Boogs, do you know LC is bad or do you think he is bad? Could LC be right and it's really Lorab or Canuck or both who are bad?

When I asked him about if he knew something rather than just thinking it, he said he did, but then later told someone else that when he says he "knows" something, he's just speculating, so I'm really not too sure what to think.

If there are currently more baddies than civs, isn't it already game over? They can just all vote together and it wouldn't matter if they were being suspicious because they would win by pure manpower.

Though he also said that he knew you were good. Aaaaaah I don't know anymore!

juliets wrote:Dana, can I ask you what makes me one of the likely people to get your vote?

Honestly, it was because you were the other person that Boogs trusted the most. You haven't really done anything suspicious, but neither did Bea. There's still a lot of time to think things over, though.

Boogs has been super suspicious, I definitely see where you're coming from Bullz, and I definitely would think he was bad if I didn't know he was good. I can see a situation where he's been recruited but it's very very unlikely and it would mean that the baddies have been wasting their night kills which I doubt they would do this late in the game when they could kill a civ. I also think it may be pretty likely that Bullz is a civ too, since even though I trust Boogs, I'm not sure how much I trust his information. Most likely candidates for my vote right now are LC and maybe Juliets.

No I meant the lynch poll the day Bea died. Not the kraft mac and cheese poll...

Do you remember who voted for what at the end of the lynch? It's not on the poll page.

Long Con wrote:Voted Bea, if only to prove to Boogs that he is wrong.

So Boogs said that he trusted Bea, and you voted her to prove that Boogs was wrong. How did you know she wasn't going to be good? You could say you were suspicious of her, but then you say after the lynch that you weren't.

Long Con wrote: Great job Dana, I did not have much suspicion of Bea. She was just a better choice than Boogs or myself, so I went for it.

Long Con wrote: Boogs, let's take the rest of them down.

Also this seemed very odd to me. Boogs had just said he was suspicious of you, but then after Bea was lynched, you said this to him. I'm very undecided on whether this was sincere or not.

Awesome. I'll definitely look into LC and Bullz today, then.

How certain are you about Juliets, Boogs? You know know or you just think so?

Today I am going to take a closer look at LC, Juliets, and Bullz. I'm unsure about LoRab at the moment but after rethinking things, making a case against her was way too easy. I honestly think a baddie team would be more careful than that. I'm pretty certain Boogs is still good, and I don't think Canuck has been too suspicious. Boogs said that he was the most sure on Bea and Juliets being civ, and Bea wasn't, so possibly Juliets is too trustworthy, too?

Unrelated question: Are baddies allowed to target themselves/teammates? I know, I know, "why would they?" but if they knew they'd be safe or even if it could benefit them, is it allowed?

Yes, more deathlessness!

Hey man, I'm just trying to find the truth here. I'm in class right now so I can't go back to review that whole interaction until later, but it's not even day yet so we have plenty of time. I know that unless Boogs was recruited, he is good, so I'm inclined to believe him even if his actions have been suspicious. I'm not saying that means you're bad for certain, just that I'm trying to figure it all out.

Aaaaaah I'm so confused. Statistically, one of you are (is?) probably bad but I have no idea which. Thank you for your response LoRab, and you don't have to change your playong style if it's something you do every game. I'm pretty sure I've never played with you before so it just seemed odd to me. Also your smiley is one of the best on this site! I guess now that I think about it, you wouldn't really want to vote with your teammate every time, would you? That would make things too easy for us. I would consider looking at Bullz if only because of the Boogs information. Did we ever come to a conclusion if that was real or not? Why is this game so hard?!

juliets wrote:I would feel better if the hosts told us it was just jibber jabber so until then I don't totally want to forget it. Did she argue for people to vote boogs? I'll have to take another look at her posts and see. I feel like I've forgotten the whole game.

I am not sure on boogs. He correctly identified me as civ so he's got that going for him but we don't know about the bullz situation. And he was definitely wrong about bea, though a lot of us were. I will say his posts are a little on the crazy edge but I see more of that from him when he is civ.

She did vote for Boogs but she didn't really try to convince others to vote for him. Maybe it was a distancing thing? Because I'm pretty sure it was the lynch where Boogs was supposed to die but didn't, so if he did die and turned out bad, she'd look good for voting for him? Though if he were on her team, then she'd have known that the lynch wouldn't have worked because Boogs did say he knew how he survived, right? I feel like this could point towards him being good.

I'm not too sure how I feel about Bullz either, but there definitely have to be a lot of bad guys around since only two(?) have been killed so far, I think. Also wondering if LC's vote for Bea could have been a distancing one. He seemed a bit too immediately accepting of my LoRab case. Though I guess all there is to do now is see what happens overnight and wait until morning for more conversation with everyone else.

So you think it's likely just randomness to throw us off? What do you think about Boogs right now, Juliets?

Hmm, thanks Juliets. It makes me feel a bit better to know that's something she usually says/does. Bea's most recent post is really making me rethink Boogs, though. She has no reason to lie if she's dead, right? I trust Boogs the most right now because I know he started the game out good, but that doesn't mean that he still is.

So I know it's nighttime right now and people aren't supposed to make cases or whatever during the night, but I'm not scared! (Well, that's a lie, but in case I get killed for revenge, I'm going to post my thoughts before morning.)

Now, I haven't particularly trusted LC or Bullz but in the spirit of trust who you don't trust and lynch who you do, I'm going to assume they're civ for now. Juliets I'm very unsure about, I may have to go back and look over her posts again. You all know what I think about Boogs, so I hope the civs will trust me on that.

The person I think we should focus on tomorrow is LoRab. In almost every single lynch, Bea and LoRab have voted the same. It may be coincidence, but it could also be that they're teammates. LoRab replaced Lizzy, and Lizzy and Bea were on different teams for the very first challenge. I think that could possibly mean something, but I also think LoRab might be a recruit (Bea and LoRab are good friends, right?). Also I totally think Bea would have recruited Enrique, but I guess we'll have to wait until her role goes up on the first page to see if she's the recruiter. In the meantime, here are some quotes to take a look at.

Bea says quite a few times that she's unsure about LoRab:

bea wrote:I keep thinking "this time for sure LC is civ!" and I keep being wrong. Is this the time I'm right? I'm unsure of lorab so IDK what to make of her vouch for him, but I've had good feels about [canuck] and bullz.

bea wrote: I've had pretty good feels about cancuk, but lorab has been a ? for me for a long time.

But she also doesn't want to lynch LoRab:

bea wrote:I can look at a case against lorab or canuck or anyone else, but I need a case you know? not just "they kissed up to me."

bea wrote:I can see a hedge vote more than a lorab vote. so that's where I'm going to vote as theres like 4 minutes left.

bea wrote:I'm voting for hedge. The case on lorab is just too weak for me at this point.

Also Canuck's been showing up around in these posts a lot, but I kind of distrusted Canuck so I think she actually might be good.

While looking through LoRab's posts, I've seen a few slightly concerning things. She uses the phrase "Eye me all you want" five times! Three of which were in three posts of hers in a row, on day 10. She also says "I have nothing to hide" quite a few times. Of course it might not be as suspicious in the context of the thread, but just looking at her posts alone, it seems very fishy. I've said before that when people outright say they're not bad, it doesn't really sit well with me. I couldn't exactly explain why that behavior makes me suspicious of people, maybe because if someone has to say they're good then it means they're probably not? I have no idea, but it does really bug me.

I knew you were too trustworthy, Bea! Maybe I'll stick with this strategy for the rest of the game.

I won't be around during the lynch, so I'm going to vote now. Nothing has really changed for me since yesterday other than the hedge lynch which I think means some major manipulation from baddies. I'm voting Bea again, because I still trust her too much.

So how do you do this play two games at a time thing?

Oh, the hairstyle was no hair at all? Is a hairless hairstyle still a hairstyle at all? This is getting philosophical.

Was their hairstyle really that similar?

I mean votes aren't changeable this poll. I was just wondering if that's a mistake or not.

Oh wait, we can't change votes this time? Has this been the whole game and I just hadn't noticed? I was pretty sure we were able to before.

LoRab wrote:@Dana: Did you mean that linkitis for someone else?

Oh whoops. I totally meant that for LC, sorry!

Well, they let me out early because I was only there to get a club approved, so yay, more time to mafia!

Bea wrote:oh Dana of the hypnoavi - I think this is the first time I've ever taken a lynch vote because the person voting me thinks I'm civ.

I'm sorry about that. I may switch if more people start coming around since our votes are all scattered, and I don't want there to be another no lynch day when the mafia have a chance to kill at night. Who do you think you're going to vote for?

I just typed up a whole long thing and my phone deleted it.

Juliets, thank you for your input. It's not that I wouldn't mind seeing her lynched, because I definitely would... Of she's good. But I guess the whole point of the game is that you don't know who's good and who's bad.

Bea, I don't want to see another civ lynched either, of course. But I know I'm good and I know someone else is (or at least was) good also, so statistically there are a lot of baddies around.

I'm leaving now for this meeting, so I'm going to vote Bea. If it ends before the lynch then I'll return and reconsider.

Linki- Lorab, yes it was pretty much that. But if the reason for your suspicion of them is that they're not suspicious then I guess I can't really say anything because I'm basically doing the same thing.

Okay, this might be a terrible idea, but I think I'm going to vote Bea for the only reason that I trust her the most. Possibly a really stupid strategy, but the way things have been going, maybe we need to flip things upside-down to try and find a baddie. I do not encourage anyone to vote with me, I don't even think Bea is bad! But I really don't see anyone as extremely suspicious right now. Bullz is maybe half suspicious to me right now, but he's quieted down a bit so I'm not too sure. I would consider a vote for LoRab if there's some evidence, and maybe even LC for trying to sway the votes a bit, but I don't feel too strongly about either of them. I'll hold off voting for another hour or two, but I have a meeting during the lynch so I probably won't be able to change last second if more information comes to light.

What do the rest of you think? Is it a really bad tactic to vote for who you trust the most?