The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote:Please explain why you trust reywas.

S~V~S wrote:Also both you & Llama trying to push me as public enemy #1 is kinda interesting.

S~V~S wrote:I voted, BTW

Dana wrote:Made why do you say you trust SVS the least yet you also said you would recruit her? I do not understand.

Dennis wrote:I'll tell you one thing, good people, there a lot less scum hunting and a lot more snark than I like to see around here. What we need is better coordination and communication. If I can make a suggestion, can everyone rank the players in order from most suspicious to least suspicious so we know where everyone stands? No hedging your bets, just a straight up read on the thread as a whole. This may get us out of the rut of running in circles and rehashing the same points over and over. Anyone who refuses to conduct this task will automatically be assumed to be bad, except GOD who is good by definition, and Roxy/DP, who are the hosts and without alignment. Also, dead people and non-players are exempt. But everyone else is fair game! If you could accompany your list with a funny cat picture, that would help too.

S~V~S wrote:

Made wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

Dana wrote:

S~V~S wrote:
And lots of people might recruit Enrique, Dana. You, Made, Splints or JC, all from IRC. LC, me, Canuck, anyone who played back in the day. Or, and this is more likely, someone may have recruited him for strategy purposes, especially if Made was on the baddie recruiting team.

What would those strategy purposes be?

He is persuasive, and he has already established that he does not see Made as bad. It is easier to be a recruit when you don't have to do a 180 about your suspicions. He would be an asset to any team, but more especially the team that had Made on it, in this game. If there is a role like you had in Misfits, he is someone they are likely to have contacted fairly early, as he has connections to several people/groups, so having a provable civvie role as your spokesman does not hurt.

To be fair, this sounds like the type of argument someone would make to justify recruiting Enrique.
"Hey later on, we can spin this as the best person for made to recruit!" as the recruiter would had known that rolls would be revealed after death.

lol (the LORB is gonna kick my ass) Dana asked me what the strategic reasons would be for YOUR team to recruit Enrique, and I gave her my opinion. Nice try

S~V~S wrote:

Dana wrote:

S~V~S wrote:
And lots of people might recruit Enrique, Dana. You, Made, Splints or JC, all from IRC. LC, me, Canuck, anyone who played back in the day. Or, and this is more likely, someone may have recruited him for strategy purposes, especially if Made was on the baddie recruiting team.

What would those strategy purposes be?

He is persuasive, and he has already established that he does not see Made as bad. It is easier to be a recruit when you don't have to do a 180 about your suspicions. He would be an asset to any team, but more especially the team that had Made on it, in this game. If there is a role like you had in Misfits, he is someone they are likely to have contacted fairly early, as he has connections to several people/groups, so having a provable civvie role as your spokesman does not hurt.

thellama73 wrote:

Made wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Where did this whole seemer speculation even come from? Did I miss something, or was this just a completely random idea thrown out there for no reason that people are somehow taking seriously?

It was SVS's theory and alleged reason for voting for me....

Yeah, but is it based on anything, or did she just come up with it out of thin air? I can make up role powers you might have too. Maybe you will explode and kill the last person to vote for you when lynched! Maybe you switch teams every time you take a certain number of votes. I don't understand why people are taking this seriously if it's not based on any evidence.

linki: Bullzeye. It seems to be getting a lot of unwarranted attention from Juliets & co. is all I'm saying.

thellama73 wrote:Where did this whole seemer speculation even come from? Did I miss something, or was this just a completely random idea thrown out there for no reason that people are somehow taking seriously?

Bullzeye wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
I don't think you understand. I DO agree that there is more than one baddie team. The problem is that I'm being unjustifiably ridiculed for saying so while the same people, including you, are on board with the idea. Can you explain that one?

Where are you being ridiculed? I haven't seen anything like that.

Made wrote: Just a questions about Seemers (which i am not one of). Would they have a role that doesn't exist in the game or any role of their choosing? Because if they have the latter, they'd also need to know every single role that's in this game, which sounds a bit overpowered.

Seemers tend to appear as a civ role rather than their own. Generally they get to choose, but you bring up a good point here. A seemer presumably wouldn't know any civ roles (aside from the ones revealed so far which includes some that are alive). There is the possibility they'd just show up as a random civ but I don't think there is any reason to believe a seemer exists in this game. Personally I tend to only be open to the possibility if we're told one exists and don't like people assuming any old lynched civ is a seemer unless there's very good reason to because I think it's a weak as hell way to justify killing a civ.

thellama73 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I am actually stunned that you people let yourselves be manipulated so easily when the truth is staring you in the face.

Must be nice to always be right about everything and never make a single mistake. Obviously you're just better than everyone else.

It's actually quite a burden.

If nothing else, consider this: SVS has said she thinks Made is bad but doesn't want to lynch him. What kind of civvie doesn't want to lynch a baddie? That one statement alone is enough to paint her as bad in my eyes.

Keterman wrote:Why would SVS, an experienced mafia player, put her faith in the confidence of a player who had been almost completely inactive up until that very point, and with no evidence or solid reasoning to back up that confidence?

thellama73 wrote:

Enrique wrote:Try being a little more condescending just so you look like even more of an ass at endgame.

Okay, I will.

Listen up, people.

Made is bad.

thellama73 wrote: And no one seems to remember that Made's case on MR was specifically cooked up to save his own skin. He asked what he could do to avoid being lynched, I said make a case on someone else, so he cooked one up out of thin air. He never believed in it. He just didn't want to die. Of all the suspicious people in this thread, THAT's the case you fell for? Really? Use your heads.

Boogs wrote:

Boogs wrote:Lame result and I don't see why everyone jumped on Keterman. Made escapes once again with his Baddie teammates.....

Mister rearranger. I'm sorry guys I'm in two games and I haven't been keeping up all the way. i don't see how the crowd shifted to Mr Rearanger suddenly and we decided not to lynch Made when we I thought that we mostly agreed he needed to go,

Made wrote:

Boogs wrote:Voting Made because nothing has changed my mind since yesterday. If he turns up bad, we may see who his teammates are.

Not even when I directly replied to your original reason for voting for me-That even a civvie would want to defend themself- nothing has changed?

I just want to make sure you acknowledge this post before In case i do die.

Dana wrote:

Made wrote: What I think we need to determine is why reasons why mafia would want to vote Mr, Me, or another party entirely.

Enrique wrote:Made, I don't think that's the case, to be honest. Since DF died on night 1 and we know he was Mafia I just kinda took it for granted that there were at least two teams. And in a 25 player game, it only makes sense for balancing reasons. You made a case against MR, so you know at least some people had reasons to believe he was bad. Same with you. The baddies wouldn't need to be one huge unit all voting for the same player for this to go the way it did.

LoRab wrote:Right, but that doesn't answer my question. I'm familiar with the source material, I get the gist of your feelings about him. What I don't understand is when you say, "While we don't yet know how bad he is, we at least know he's an indy, and I'd be willing to bet that we need him dead to win. We'll find out soon I think, either way."

How will we soon find out that we need him dead to win and/or how bad he is (was)?

linkitis: @God: Awwwww. Thanks. You're a kind and compassionate God, clearly.

And I agree the Rabbit was bad news.

LoRab wrote:Oy. I was set to catch up and vote this afternoon, and started to do the first of those, and then someone came into my office, and then by the time I was looking at a computer again it was too late. RIP MR. As I said earlier, I didn't see reason for suspicion of him. Having now read through the last day of the thread--nice bandwagon. I need to look back and see some of its starts and where the seeds were planted. I would have voted Made, or maybe MM. My feelings of neither of them has changed.

Made wrote:

Long Con wrote:Even if it were as you described, I don't see me basing my team's voting plan on Llama's Opinion. I hear you're a smart guy, Llama, but I don't know that I would place that much faith in your opinion.

Don't play this game unless you REALLY know what your doing or REALLY don't.

It's gotta be either genuine stupidity or calculated stupidity to work. Trust me I'm stupid.

Neither, I don't think. I don't think he's appearing stupid, first of all. And he certainly isn't stupid. I think he's just being him. He knows what he's doing--he's smart as fuck and is one of the very few players who have been at this longer than I have who are still playing. I don't see why you think he's trying to appear stupid, though. I guess I don't get what you're saying.

Made wrote:

S~V~S wrote:LC is far from stupid, Made.

Dana, any opinion on Bullz? Bea? Anyone?

Didn't mean to imply they were.
I'm just saying it's hard to argue for those accusing you with out either being blissfully ignorant or have the situation awareness to you how far you can go to avoid suspicion, then the lack of common sense to go above and beyond that.

Made wrote:Yo, SVS, is there a term for voting in hopes of getting others to vote someone? Because I've noticed that happens a lot.

Woah-linki kinda related? Basically mafia vote getting tactics.

Double related linki

It's called starting a bandwagon.

Keterman wrote:Remember fellow townies, it's not too late to change your vote, nor is it too late to place your vote on a scum-aligned player.

And, why should we believe you? And oh, wait, you were wrong. Also, if you could explain your reasons for your opinions, it would be helpful for me.

Metalmarsh89 wrote: As for Epi, here you will find his death. He was the rabbit who killed several of Arthur's knights in the film. While we don't yet know how bad he is, we at least know he's an indy, and I'd be willing to bet that we need him dead to win. We'll find out soon I think, either way.

What do you mean by this?

What will we find out soon enough and how? And how do you know this?

Epignosis had the worst possible role,
“*squeaks angrily*”

Rabbit of Caerbannog - That rabbit is dynamite! - In addition to killing on odd nights on even nights you will search for Brother Maynard. If you find Brother Maynard you won't/can't kill him but will earn (1) instant kill to be used whenever you wish (day or night). LMS

S~V~S wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:That's not good...

S~V~S wrote:Wow. That was not expected. And Keterman sounded so confident, he reminded me of him in Misfits, where he was fairly spot on, I thought.

What was he spot on about in Misfits? I don't really remember much from him in that game. He was a fairly quiet baddie as I recall.

He was quiet after I died, that was how I knew HE was bad (from beyond the grave). He was spot on about me, and for the right reasons.

And Enrique, not sure what you are talking about? I mainly thought there might be a Seemer becasue Made has so many open, overt defenders. Too many for civ BTS, and too overt for standard baddie defenses. I have only seen similar behavior (or engaged in it) when there was a Seemer. Thats the only reason I thought there was one, and I relate it to Made specifically. I think that is your point, but not sure.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Mongoose wrote:Oh, and yes I am female, btw.

Linki: I did know I was addressing Dana, I just quoted your misquote.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Made wrote:Metalmarsh - People have brought up a few good points about MM. The most suspicious things I’ve seen so far are the French thing and the Epi thing (was that MM? I think I might be getting confused. Also side note do we know for sure that Epi’s role was a bad one? I didn’t see it in the first post.) I am considering voting for MM, but it would be a half-hearted vote, so I’ll probably hold off until I look through everyone else.

I think both of your pings are a bit pedantic, being as they are both about characters from the movie that I was hinting at. The French joke I made and expounded on was in reference to SVS's comment about people having civvie BTSC. I followed it up with, "Hey maybe they're French" with the suggestion that hey, maybe it's not the civvies. Essentially I was saying, "Hey, maybe they're bad." Also, with llama's comment and many other's support that this might be the ballsiest mafia ever, I think it's hypocritical to take my comment and say it's that of a baddie, when his more extreme suggestion is so accepted.

As for Epi, here you will find his death. He was the rabbit who killed several of Arthur's knights in the film. While we don't yet know how bad he is, we at least know he's an indy, and I'd be willing to bet that we need him dead to win. We'll find out soon I think, either way.

Omg linki: I still have 3 other pages to read first, but this read from Dana needed addressing from me.

Dana wrote:

Made wrote:Thank you for the reeds dana, they'll look great on my desk!

Dana, did i ever tell you why i thought you were mafia last game? it's a stupid but funny story.

No, why?

Dana wrote:Alright friends, here we go!

Bea - Like I have said, I trust Bea quite a lot, and that really scares me. I mean how can I not when she has that adorable kitty as her icon?! But I have honestly felt that she’s been contributing a lot, and I haven’t seen any reason to question or doubt her so far. From skimming back through her posts, I see that she’s been asking a lot of questions and for clarification which I think is a very good thing, and makes me think she’s a good guy. So yes, she is probably bad since I trust her.

birdwithteeth11 - I kind of haven’t really been paying too much attention to BWT (sorry:() Like Bea, from a quick skim of his posts, he also seems to be contributing quite a bit, and I think he is doing some genuine hunting.

”BWT” wrote:Alright. I won't necessarily vote for Made today. I will take that back. But I REALLY need to think long and hard about this.

I definitely think statements like this, showing that he’s rethinking and similar things point to BWT being good. If he were bad and he knew Made wasn’t then he’d try and jump right on it and not budge. I think questioning yourself and others and trying to figure it all out is exactly what a good guy would do. So I guess I half trust BWT since I haven’t seen anything that would make me not trust him.

Boogs - He has been one of the quieter ones, but I guess I really can’t comment since I’ve been pretty quiet too. I think he’s acting very slightly different from how he acted in Misfits where he was bad, but alone. It’s very possible he’s trying to fly under the radar, but I think it’s more likely that he’s just quiet like I am. I think I’ll wait to hear more from him before making a stronger opinion.

Bullz - I really want to trust Bullz because of the last game, but I know that’s not how these things work. In this game, though, he seems to be adding a lot of opinions and seriously searching for who’s bad. He made some pretty good points against MM in his most recent post that I mostly agree with. I trust him a good amount. More than Boogs and very slightly less than Bea.

To SVS, about the “derail” thing, I commented because I happened to be in the thread at the time and thought I could contribute. I assume it was the same for Bullz? He only replied agreeing with me. Quote for clarity:

Bullzeye wrote:

Dana wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Made, where did you hear the term "derail"? I searched this thread for derail, derailed & derailing, and The Misfits as well, and no one said it.

Derail is a common word... Like derailing the conversation? I don't think it's that odd for him to have said it.

Yeah... Derail is a widely used metaphor, it's not like it's exclusive to mafia. He could have heard it anywhere and applied it here.

I also thought it was a weird thing to point out/go after since it’s such a commonly used word. I understand you meant in that context, but I didn’t find it odd at all. At the time, I saw it as you trying to pick out anything you could find to target Made some more. I’m not certain that’s the case anymore since you didn’t really stick with it much, but that is what I thought then.

Canucklehead - She made some really good points and came up with a good theory. Even if it turns out that it isn’t true, I think her taking the time to think it through shows that she’s interested in the greater good. I trust her about as much as Bullz.

Dana - Very overwhelmed and confused. Sorting out thoughts and trying to help as much as possible.

Enrique - Like Bullz, I also want to trust Enrique, but I’m scared to do so without any in-thread evidence. On the other hand, I also don’t have any reason to not trust him. I agree with him about Llama’s case against Made. I feel like it didn’t have much of a basis and though it had some interesting points, it was taken so far that it seemed like the structure behind it didn’t even matter anymore. Enrique seems very genuine, and like he knows what he’s talking about. Even though he is acting a bit differently than how he is when I talk to him normally, I don’t think that means he’s bad.

fingersplints/Spacedaisy - So how do I read people that have been replaced? Do I look at the player before they were replaced? And then the new player after? This is quite confusing. I’m going to hold off on commenting here.

Hedgeowl - People were very suspicious of Hedge and I still don’t completely understand the reasoning. I kind of feel like he was being used as a scapegoat, but I’m not sure. I’m running out of time to make this list before the lynch deadline, so I will revisit Hedge later. At the moment, I don’t see anything too weird.

Juliets - Possibly an unpopular opinion here, but I don’t think Juliets is bad. I feel that the case against her wasn’t extremely strong. She seems to be searching and hunting the best she can, and I don’t think her asking so many questions and not adding her own opinion is a bad thing at all. All civs can do is search for more information, right? I think her asking so many questions makes her seem more like a good guy instead of a bad one.

Keterman/Black Rock - I’ve been trying to keep up with the thread as I make this, so Keter’s posts are really confusing me. What is he talking about?! Also going to figure out this replacing stuff.

Long Con - Like BWT, I also haven’t been paying too much attention to LC. I know there was some sort of argument with SVS but I didn’t follow that too much, I’ll have to go back and look again.

LoRab/Lizzy - More replacing. Nothing comes to mind at the moment, I will look deeper into them later.

Made - Made, Made, Made. What will we do with you? I am so lost on Made right now. I didn’t trust him last game when I should have, but apparently that was his goal, though I still don’t understand his reasoning for wanting to get himself lynched in Misfits. I know that Made has a very unique way of playing mafia, and well, of doing anything, really. I’m not 100% convinced that he’s bad, but he is pretty suspicious. I will say that he’s acting more like a good guy in this game than he was in the last game, from what I can tell. I don’t know if that means he’s learned from misfits or he’s bad and trying to act similar but less dramatic. I don’t think I would vote for him today, if only to see where he goes.

Metalmarsh - People have brought up a few good points about MM. The most suspicious things I’ve seen so far are the French thing and the Epi thing (was that MM? I think I might be getting confused. Also side note do we know for sure that Epi’s role was a bad one? I didn’t see it in the first post.) I am considering voting for MM, but it would be a half-hearted vote, so I’ll probably hold off until I look through everyone else.

Mister Rearranger - So very suspicious. I am strongly considering voting for MR today, but I also am worried that he’ll turn out to be good. Aaaah I hate calling people out so much. The thing with Juliets asking him for clarification and him pretty much avoiding the question really bothers me. Also from skimming through his posts, he hasn’t seemed to have said very many opinions, though there are a few. I definitely understand “getting off to a slow start” and am willing to wait and see. If he comes back to answer or add more to the conversation, I will definitely reconsider.

Mongoose - I haven’t seen much that would say she(?)’s bad, but I definitely want to look through again because some people are clearly suspicious of her.

nijuukyugou - A pretty quiet player, I’m not too sure what to think. I was pretty sure nijuu was good last game, but she confuses me very very much. I will hold off on searching through posts for a stronger opinion because I’m running out of time.

reywaS - Another quiet one, I think? Either that or I also haven’t paid too much attention to him (also sorry ). I will look into him more soon.

S~V~S - I feel like SVS is acting a tiny bit different than how she was when she was bad. I don’t think I know her (or anyone, really) well enough yet to say that she’s definitely good, but I’m not really suspicious of her. I still have to go back and read the LC/SVS thing, so my opinion might change, but for now, she seems pretty okay.

Thellama73 - I’m pretty suspicious of Llama at the current moment. At first I thought there was no way he could be bad because of that whole argument between Made and him. What bad guy would bring so much attention upon themselves on the very first day? But what if that’s just what he wants us to think?! I found it very odd that he went after Made so strongly, and is still continuing to be very against him. Him wanting to lynch Made just to find out doesn’t sit well with me. I also am extremely curious about what Made’s role is, but I don’t want to take the chance of lynching a good guy just because he was acting a little differently than most. Though I’m also pretty conflicted because he makes a lot of good points that I agree with, like about LC’s question and I think MM? (I know he said something else that I agreed with but I can’t seem to find it right now.) I don’t think I would vote for Llama today but I will be keeping a close eye on him.

Wow this was actually kind of a little bit stressful, it felt like writing an essay right before it’s due.

Hedgeowl wrote:So far I am still feeling pretty good about my vote on Made it turns out. It is interesting how many voted MR all in a row to give him the lead. I clearly didn't pay enough attention to the details of Made's case against him if so many found him suspicious.

Linki Peter Lorre is so good.

Canucklehead wrote:I'm afraid I'm going to forget/miss the vote, since I'm frantically lesson-planning and prepping right now. I didn't have time to go back and look at Made's MR case (wasted too much time trying to prod poor juliets :P ), and I haven't really seen a compelling reason to vote there (though other people seem to?), and I'm not a fan of the "Vote made for informational purposes, yo!" approach (though I get why people think it might be useful), and I'm worried that my phantom MM suspicion is being fueled purely by the fumes of other phantom MM suspicions, since no one seems to be willing/able to pull anything concrete despite apparent efforts to do so......so I might repeat a Mongoose vote, for gutty reasons, and for her response to my suspicions not being enough to shake my gutty feelings.

My only hesitation re: MM is that he hasn't seemed to have had any sort of reaction to all the "I think I'm suspicious of MM but I have no reason or evidence for why" talk (including my own) that has been tossed about in the last few days. When I'm a civ and my name keeps coming up for absolutely no reason at all, I get CRAY CRAY bothered by it and make a big fuss. Maybe that's just not the way MM rolls, but I do find it a little odd that he isn't at all bugged by the really flimsy accusations about him and the repeated resurfacing of his name.
(If such a response exists, please someone point me to it....)

Voting Mongoose for now......open to changing it if I have time/remember to come back before the poll ends and someone makes a really good argument for doing so (not because I don't suspect her, but because I realize that my vote is pretty useless there all by its lonesome)

linki: really interesting point, juliets.

Boogs wrote:Voting Made because nothing has changed my mind since yesterday. If he turns up bad, we may see who his teammates are.

Made wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Keterman wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Keterman voted MR, Teefies.

Does he have anything to add toMades case, I wonder?

Linki fest

You and Long Con are townies under the influence of dark spirrrritual forccces...

What on Earth does this mean?

The obvious interpretation is Long Con and SVS are being pitted against each other.

Bullzeye wrote:

Keterman wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Keterman voted MR, Teefies.

Does he have anything to add toMades case, I wonder?

Linki fest

You and Long Con are townies under the influence of dark spirrrritual forccces...

What on Earth does this mean?

Keterman wrote:Made town.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:

juliets wrote:LonG Con, if you're still around, can you be more specific about why you are voting for SVS? Is it something she said, some way that she's been acting, or just a feeling?

linki - yes bullz i ask a lot of questions. It's a hallmark of my style.

Juliets, this is a really weird question. LC and SVS have had several back-and-forths where his suspicion of her was outlined and explained in great detail, and her responses were also very detailed. What more specificity are you looking for? Or are you subtly trying to keep putting the SVS suspicion out into the thread in the hopes that people will latch onto it? I'm not sure who you might be trying to protect by doing this....
Need to think on it...

Yeah, I thought both LC and SVS had explained their feelings about each other quite clearly. This feels too much like JC trying to play it safe and not take sides.

S~V~S wrote: Linki ha ha

thellama73 wrote:

Dana wrote:Llama seems pretty eager to get Made out of the game.

Yes, I am. I have made no secret of that fact.

S~V~S wrote:LC is far from stupid, Made.

Dana, any opinion on Bullz? Bea? Anyone?

Long Con wrote:Even if it were as you described, I don't see me basing my team's voting plan on Llama's Opinion. I hear you're a smart guy, Llama, but I don't know that I would place that much faith in your opinion.

Canucklehead wrote: I mentioned earlier that I had been pinged by MM, but wasn't able to find what had pinged me, so I'm interested to hear that others are also pinged. I entirely missed somehow Made's case on him that juliets brings up, so I guess I need to have a look for that. (I thought Made's big offensive salvo was against MR? Am I mixing the m-folk up, or were their two separate cases?)

Made wrote:

juliets wrote:Made, I don't think anyone has asked you this straight out: do you know what happened in the lynch that resulted in you being saved? This is a yes or no question as I'm sure it would break the rules for you to expound on it.

Yes

Long Con wrote: In my scenario, you are a baddie, and you think it's more than likely Made will turn up Civvie... so you had better sow a seed of doubt a la Seemer into the mix.

thellama73 wrote:I'm starting to think we are dealing with the ballsiest mafia team in mafia history.

Enrique wrote:I... Made, what? Do you know for a fact what saved you?