The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote:This was such a fun, happy game to watch, and, as always, Mongoose was a pleasure to work with. I am pleased I figured out the affiliations for the most part.

Llama that was a good plan re trying to draw NKs, I did it myself recently :whistle: But you never know what criteria any specific team will use.

You figured out Me and Sabie?

Epignosis wrote:
sabie12 wrote:Oh well I think I did well and now I can't annoy people and use the idk what I'm doing excuse anymore haha.
You had me fooled- excellent strategy in throwing the puppet slayer off your scent. Plus it kept me from suggesting that we kill or lynch you until the end, since, when I am bad, I usually try to take out BTSC people as soon as possible. Well done!

Thanks for a whimsical game, Mongoose!

THAT ENDING HIT ME RIGHT IN THE FELT.

Why did you guys choose to kill me btw?

Also, speaking of boogs, I was forced to vote him, but I thought I was force voted by a civvie :x

Bullzeye wrote:So now is it obvious why I knew Llama was a civ? People making out like it was suspicious :P I thought it was pretty clear. Can't believe nobody else targeted him all game except to kill him which somehow didn't curse his killer.

Honestly I'm kinda mad I didn't catch on to that :/. Still don't get the boogs case tho...

Also, what did you guys think of my play style this game. Trying something new.

Mister Rearranger wrote:Ok, so who day-blocked me?

My plan was to switch my lynch to Epi and check Made the very next night. Starting a day or 2 before that, I didn't think I had a chance anyways, and I resigned myself to causing chaos. How heartbreaking that I was closer than I imagined.

Yeah, I was afraid I buddied too hard with llama, and when I wasn't switched, I kinda figured you just checked him and Didn't bother checking me.

Who brought Llama back to life?

Mister Rearranger wrote:Ok, so who day-blocked me?

My plan was to switch my lynch to Epi and check Made the very next night. Starting a day or 2 before that, I didn't think I had a chance anyways, and I resigned myself to causing chaos. How heartbreaking that I was closer than I imagined.

Yeah, I was afraid I buddied too hard with llama, and when I wasn't switched, I kinda figured you just checked him and Didn't bother checking me.

Who brought Llama back to life?

Great game btw Mongoose <3

Mongoose wrote:
Made read too many books. He forgot to eat or drink. Dehydration set in.

Made has died.

Yeah, that sounds about right, lol. Rip Me.

thellama73 wrote:I think we neither give people a pass for their inaction, nor assume they are lying. It is possible to be legitimately busy and still a baddie, and we should vote accordingly.

Didn't mean to imply truthfulness and baddieness were mutually exclusive!

And we run into a very interesting Ethical dilemma. Very many people this game have stressed that they have had irl commitments, and it makes sense. With most of us seeming to be involved in Education in one way or another, Fall can be the most chaotic season as people are readjusting. I know personally I've skipped a few night polls and skimmed more than I feel comfortable admitting to, but we also know that at least one Mafia is left and skipping could be advantageous.
Do we excuse inaction based on out of game circumstances on the assumption that mafia wouldn't lie about being busy on principle?

(also roxy, sorry to kinda single you out on this. You just brought it back to mind. I hope you and your sister are doing better <3)

Picked all the ones I recognized :/

Mister Rearranger wrote:
Made wrote:We need a TV SuperHero game like asap

I would totally collaborate on a Justice League Unlimited game, not even gonna pretend that wouldn't be epic.

I sadly haven't even finished that show yet, Still on season 2 of Justice League.
As for this game, I'm Just gonna sleep on it for now. Maybe things'll make sense in the morning.

Teen Titans Mafia!

Puppet Master (King) has the ability to puppetify any member of the Teen Titans.
We need a TV SuperHero game like asap

Ignored that, forgot to count AP. you situation is plausible, But still think it's very unlikely that
1. His recruits didn't even put up a fight
2. Both remaining members of mafia voted to kill one person that they knew could easily be civvie.

thellama73 wrote:
Made wrote:
thellama73 wrote:But this really puts me at a loss for next lynch. MR's recruits would not vote for him, so that rules out Made and Sabie. Since he can have up to two recruits, that means 2/3 of Rob, AP, and Roxy could be his recruits, which would make them not on the baddie team, and I really want to get someone on the baddie team. But I am reading Made as civvie now and if Sabie is bad she's the most devious, no good, rotten, stinking liar I have ever seen on this site.

I don't know what to do.
I really Doubt it's AP because AP was brought back to life in place of Keterman. Since Keterman was Big Felt, we can probably assume that AP was someone with no BTSC or Mafia relations/knowledge. At least that's my reasoning at this moment.
You're right. That would mean that Epignosis and Roxy were his recruits, assuming that they are not dead, and that would make you and sabie bad.

Making you the only alive civvie, and MR's army of Recruits completely AFK the First and only day he gained suspicioion. Meaning tonight, when Mafia kills Either Roxy, EPI or yourself, they win (assuming win condition) as it would be Myself and sabie vs 2 people, and mafia wins in a tie.

Right?

thellama73 wrote:But this really puts me at a loss for next lynch. MR's recruits would not vote for him, so that rules out Made and Sabie. Since he can have up to two recruits, that means 2/3 of Rob, AP, and Roxy could be his recruits, which would make them not on the baddie team, and I really want to get someone on the baddie team. But I am reading Made as civvie now and if Sabie is bad she's the most devious, no good, rotten, stinking liar I have ever seen on this site.

I don't know what to do.

I really Doubt it's AP because AP was brought back to life in place of Keterman. Since Keterman was Big Felt, we can probably assume that AP was someone with no BTSC or Mafia relations/knowledge. At least that's my reasoning at this moment.

OHHHH SHIIIIT THE GAME HAS BEEN CHANGEDD!?!?!?!?!?!

Voting MR, I swear Llama don't be mafia....

thellama73 wrote:
Made wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Come on, Made. I defended you.
I know you did, But that doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of you. As i've said, the reason i'm suspicious of you is because you voted early and your vote seemed strange. Refute those point or make a strong argument against MR, who at this point, I don't understand the arguments against.
Okay, honestly, I voted early because I saw what was going to happen if I didn't. Either I was going to get lynched, or you were. I know that I am civ. I am beginning to believe that you are civ. I voted because I believe MR to be bad, and I was hoping my vote would generate discusion and lead other people to the same conclusion. I don't have a strong, evidence-based case to make against MR. But I have played with him before, and I do think I recognize his baddie game. He is very good at staying out of the spotlight while simultaneously appearing like an active participant. Why has no one talked much about him until now? Because he's been doing exactly what good baddies do. They blend. They let the vocal go-getters like me make mistakes and follow along for the ride, gleefully watching as civ after civ is lynched while the blood remains off their hands.

Call it gut, if you want. But that's how I feel right now.

Do you know why/how you were rezzied or how you avoid a lynch potentionally twice now?

thellama73 wrote:Come on, Made. I defended you.

I know you did, But that doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of you. As i've said, the reason i'm suspicious of you is because you voted early and your vote seemed strange. Refute those point or make a strong argument against MR, who at this point, I don't understand the arguments against.

Just a thought, Isn't MR and Llama kinda voting so early very suspicious? especially when considering Llama agrees with me that voting as a group is very much required in order to make sure Mafia doesn't manipulate votes.

I think we should Lynch Llama. If Puppets are active, then they might be doing well if not better than mafia, if not, Considering the fact the game is still even going at this point, Mafia doesn't have 4 people alive right now(assuming win conditions is just out number town), we'd have at least another day/night cycle to lynch a mafia.

I will wait to vote, not to save myself, but because i want to make sure we don't spread our votes too thin.

Continuation: well we know both puppets, Puppet slayer, and all of team mafia are not alive at this point. As I am neither.
Since AP rezzed in place of know civvie keterman, it's probably safe to say s/he was neither either. Meaning my guess that AP was mafia was wrong.
I still think Bulleye was mafia, and the fact anyone died last night makes me think puppet master is still alive. The murdering of such loud mouth people such as Llama and hedge (stop me if hedge died on an even night)makes me think mafia might of killed these suspect people not because they wanted to outnumber town, they wanted to kill people who. they'd probably thought these people were puppet slayer.

In the most optimal scenarios for Bad felt and puppet slayer, either bad has 3 and puppet has 3 or bad has 4 and puppet has 2. I don't think either of these are very likely, but both are very possible when we consider the fact we haven't lynched a noncivvie yet.
...I just remembered something. Was Llama dead or alive the night no one died, and was that night even?(after thought, this no death also could of been a protection, and I belive pink pill is the only one who can do that this game.)

Linki-epig, I want to say it's Llama, but unless llama really thought bullseye was mafia for sure, why would he kill the person who supported him most?

And it might be crazy to ask support from Indy, but it makes sense to me at this point based on how well mafia seems to be doing. Roxy however made a post suggesting nafia might be weaker than indy atm, so I'm reconsidering, but Iunno.

Mister Rearranger wrote:
thellama73 wrote:If I had my druthers, I would vote for MR today. His scapegoateree of Made has my eyebrow firmly raised, and Made, although deathly wrong about me, is reasoning like a civilian. However, I do not have my durthers, since people still are probably going to try to kill me and I will have to save myself however I can.

Still, I urge people to look at MR.
It's a scapepaca, thank you very much...

wait, scapegoating implies that MR was in hot water. What I can't figure out is MR's angle. If he were mafia at this point, he wouldn't bother making a theory with little to no evidence or support, Right?

I don't think we should vote MR at this point.
Thoughts?
In response to Roxy: what are some normal mafia and Indy win conditions outside of out number town and last man standing? Those are the only ones I know of.

Mister Rearranger wrote:
Made wrote:After further analysis, it's clear that there's at aleast three killers in this game
1.Mad hatter
2.Puppet slayer
3.A Ninja or prize killer.(note probably not allignment exclusive)

Using this logic remove the false pretence that everyone who died is civvie.

As it stands, I kinda thought APerson was mafia, but that was a gut read more than anything and probably just straight up wrong.

I'm leaving lunch. Mafia, please don't use my train of thought to get a civvie lynched while I'm gone.
Also, you sounded pretty confident one of your teammies died. Glad I found this post again.

Gonna play this one Misfits style:

If I am mafia as you claim, how would I know puppet slayer's objective as you also claimed I did above?

I'm confident because confidence is fun, honestly.I'm enjoying being confident, and I'm also enjoying throwing all weak arguemrnts against me back in the face of those throwing them.

I may be evil, but I'm still civve and if we want to win civvies need to work with Puppet slayer to kill mafia. "The Enemy of my enemy is my friend" I stand by both this and my previous two post.

(Note I do not know, or am claiming to know any information and therefore all of my theories, are fallible. I have made an effort to make this clear throughout the game that I am always open to thoughtful criticism of theories and ideas.)

Epignosis wrote:
Made wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Made, I think Bullzeye was a damning kill.
Not as damning as it immediately might appear. According to page one, mafia only kills on odd nights, meaning there a large chance mafia was not involved.

While we don't know puppet slayer's win objective, Mafia wins by outnumber town. So Puppet slayer--at this point in the game especially-- is incentivised to find and kill suspected mafia.
Uh-huh.

This from the front page:

Mongoose wrote:BAD FELT. Secret win conditions.
The Mad Hatter and his hats have a secret win condition. So how do you know that:

1. The Puppet Slayer has a unique win objective, and
2. That Mafia win by outnumbering the town?

I think you dun goofed.

This would be pathetic if it were a slip. I just had a moemory laps. I thought Bad felt was the announced and puppet slayer was secret. That said, I'll answer your questions regardless.

1. S/he's an Indy. Ofcourse they're win condition is going to be unique???
2. I've never seen a game where outnumbering wasn't at least part of mafia's end goal. Regardless three teams competing rather than two is great for the losing team and as a civvie, I feel like I'm losing.

With no success lynches under our belt, it's safe to say we're not doing hot. At this point, the puppet slayer is an allyy not an enemy.

As a town, how do you feel like we're doing epig?

Epignosis wrote:Made, I think Bullzeye was a damning kill.

Not as damning as it immediately might appear. According to page one, mafia only kills on odd nights, meaning there a large chance mafia was not involved.

While we don't know puppet slayer's win objective, Mafia wins by outnumber town. So Puppet slayer--at this point in the game especially-- is incentivised to find and kill suspected mafia.

thellama73 wrote:Oh look, my only defender has died. Still think I'm bad?

Yes but that's beside the point. I think you killed him as indy and he was mafia, so i'm ok with that.

The way I see it, we need you alive in order to keep the ratio of Mafia:Town above win condition level, and (I'm assuming anyways as Puppet Slayer) Puppet slayer (probably) only kills on even nights so you don't need to die tonight. Killing you might give mafia the win if we're not careful.

Honestly I want to point our attention to Roxy based on gut feeling and voting patterns. I've thought this for a while, but I figured that even suggesting Roxy might be bad would get my lynched while bulls and Llama were still alive. As this is definitely not a sound argument/case, I'm open to other suggestions.

There's always the chance no one dies tonight. If someone does we probably shouldn't lynch Llama tonight, but day 8, the way I see it anyways.

Ap, I need your opinions and shit if you're willing to give them plox.

KISS, I can respect that. Given the fact that my reason for wanting DF dead was similar to the reason I wanted you dead is however making me rethink think things. As of now, most of the stuff concering boogs is being weighed in my head keeping DF's civvieness in mind.

Bullzeye wrote:
Made wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
Made wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Like Made, I'm also gonna vote DF. He's still my top suspicion and I don't think that will change. He's already responded to the points I made against him and his responses didn't help. I had been hoping something else might happen today but it doesn't seem like it is going to so my vote goes to *DF*.
Woah... just realized he's used the same exact argument to defend his vote today as he used yesterday...smh bullzeye <3
I don't see why it's a problem that I voted the same person for the same reason twice in a row. Nothing had changed between the two votes to make me think differently.
Agreed. It's a bogus argument. I vote for the same person for the same reason all the time.
Wrong two different people: DF, then elo. Also, this wasn't September 7th
Fine but I can use the same logic to vote for two different people. It would be more suspicious if I contradicted myself. As far as September 7th goes, that's me agreeing with one opinion of Llama's but not the rest? That's because I'm a separate human being with my own thoughts and feelings.

Strawman.

As for your first comment, you used the same exact you used to lynch a civvie the day after that civvie died, and you see nothing wrong with that?

thellama73 wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:
Made wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Like Made, I'm also gonna vote DF. He's still my top suspicion and I don't think that will change. He's already responded to the points I made against him and his responses didn't help. I had been hoping something else might happen today but it doesn't seem like it is going to so my vote goes to *DF*.
Woah... just realized he's used the same exact argument to defend his vote today as he used yesterday...smh bullzeye <3
I don't see why it's a problem that I voted the same person for the same reason twice in a row. Nothing had changed between the two votes to make me think differently.
Agreed. It's a bogus argument. I vote for the same person for the same reason all the time.

Wrong two different people: DF, then elo. Also, this wasn't September 7th

Bullzeye wrote:I feel at this point I've committed. Going to support Llama and vote Made - I also find it odd that he's mentioned me as suspicious a few times but never said why. If Llama really is bad at this point I'm going to feel stupid but I thought I had a solid reason to trust him.

See most of my post from September 7th.

Voting Llama to secure the majority. What does you dying have to do with bullz' read and why should we care.

I'm confident in this lynch.

thellama73 wrote:
Roxy wrote:I do not like the way the thread is being steered like we are puppets todo llama's bidding.
It is making my nose all twitchy. And that is not good.
What? I am steering nothing. Just trying to keep myself alive against a rising tide of Llama Hate. Rob has said he is suspicious of Made, I share his view, and Made correctly pointed out that we have to pool our votes to avoid baddie manipulation. I agree with all those points.

Replace my name with your name and we reach an agreement.... I'm gonna double check the roles after lunch and see if I can't figure out how baddies could possiby be left. See yall after school

Epignosis wrote:
Made wrote:Epig, what is your opinion of Llama atm?
Before he died, he had to vote each time to save himself. I get that. Since then, he voted to lynch Eloh (early) because Roxy knows her better than I do. Previously, he said he did not suspect my wife.

And two simultaneous resurrections? No way those are two good resurrections. Keterman didn't talk at all when he came back, but he got replaced. Llama has been running with the "I'm a loose cannon" persona since he came back.

So I don't trust Llama. I think he came back naughty.

The way I see it, he was always naughty, but is convinced it's too late for civvie to make a comeback. The thing really throwing me tho, is killing hedgie rather than myself, or yourself (assuming civvie) or any other player who's garnered trust, Are we just that off that we're more useful alive than we are dead to mafia?

Epig, what is your opinion of Llama atm?

So before anyone votes, in order to increase the chance of catching mafia, we need to pool our votes together in order to insure we lynch mafia.
Who do we find suspicious?

I say we start with bullz, but I'm open to suggestions

Oh, kk bbz. Noted.

Roxy wrote: I don't get why Made made that post about llamas vote.

thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:I voted for Elohcin.
That's rather unexpected given this, this, this, this and this.

Am I to assume by your vote that you are now more suspicious of Eloh than Hedge?
Yes, that is very well assumed. I am a fickle llama, and I change my mind.

The way I read this, the rest of his arguments against eloh(especially when compared against his hedgie argument), and his reaction when I pointed out how strange his early vote all seemed to fit in the theory of Llama being force voted. This also gave reason for me to believe Keterman had been muted. I kinda figured everyone else came to this conclusion as the topic was dropped, and talking about it might limited the scope of Llama's speech.

Mongoose wrote:
Keterman(2.0) and thellama73 have 48 hours of clemency. This means they are immune to night actions, and will not be options in the Day 5 poll. However, they will be allowed to vote

Llama's vote wasn't forced.

I don't trust anyone because my mother didn't hug me enough as a child.

linki- sup AP

Bullzeye wrote:Like Made, I'm also gonna vote DF. He's still my top suspicion and I don't think that will change. He's already responded to the points I made against him and his responses didn't help. I had been hoping something else might happen today but it doesn't seem like it is going to so my vote goes to *DF*.

Woah... just realized he's used the same exact argument to defend his vote today as he used yesterday...smh bullzeye <3

Fuck it, let's try this. Voting Bullzeye B)
Linki-

Given, ofcourse they assist both, but who more?

Epignosis wrote:
Made wrote:To address your first point, yes I voted first, but I honestly didn't expect so many people to jump on board. It just felt off, so I said it felt off. If everyone voted on your top suspect, wouldn't you feel off too?

Usually no. When people vote my top suspect, I like it very much.well I guess that's just me then. Might have to do with the fact that I've never lynched mafia.

Made wrote:Epig, giving reads, in your opinion does giving reads help other civvies or mafia more?
I'm not sure what you're asking me here.

what is your opinion on giving reads? Do they assist mafia or civvie. Why?

To address your first point, yes I voted first, but I honestly didn't expect so many people to jump on board. It just felt off, so I said it felt off. If everyone voted on your top suspect, wouldn't you feel off too?

If Ive learned anything from the little bit I've played mafia it's that like most things, it's politics. Starting bandwagons(note I did not intend to start one yesterday but admittedly, I did), giving the objective right sounding answer to questions,omiting information, gaining suspicion to avoid being NKed, asking questions designed to trap people into seeing things the way you do. Intentionally not bringing up compelling arguementd against yourself. These are all valuable Civvie techniques to move the game in your favor(MP and Dana and Roxy and DH and Sorsha taught me that in misfits).
In a transparent game, mafia can and has easily played me, so I'm trying a slanted game.

So far it's kinda working, if I could just be right for once...

Epig, giving reads, in your opinion does giving reads help other civvies or mafia more?

Going to respond to each point in a pretty color

Epignosis wrote:Okay.
Made.

Voting record over four days is Boogs, Eloh, Boogs***, DF, where "***" indicates a mistaken vote for Eloh

What I find most significant here are not the votes themselves, but the fact that you have voiced suspicion of Roxy, DF, and now to a lesser extent, A Person, but when you voted for Eloh and DF, you voted alongside those people.I normally voice suspicion as soon as I see it unless I want to watch a persons actions. I acknowledge the possibility of mafia voting with me to distance so normally I don't see anything wrong with voting with someone I find suspicious. AP was just a gut feeling I didn't even feel worth mentioning.
Made wrote:The way I see it, Bullz, DF, and Roxy are all suspcious for thinking boogs was obviously civvie, because he wasn't.

Made wrote:The way I see it, DF and Bulls are still the most suspicious, and one of them should die tomorrow.
Then on Day 4, you voted DF with Bullzeye, A Person, and Elohcin.
I was the first to vote DF, and at the end of the day due to the strength of the argument against df in comparison to Elo or Bulls,who voted with me, and the pure uncontested volume of DF voters, I said we had a civvie.
Made wrote:Nothing has happened to change my mind on DF, voting him now.
Going through your posts, it would seem you would have more of a reason to vote for Bullzeye, but very quickly you drop the first of several votes on DF
it was a strong argument against him, but DF still made more sense. If I never said this, what specific hung me up was the same thing that I distrusted Bullz for (insistance and trust in Llama) but to a greater degree. I just figured I'd set up the next lynch while finishing DF's

, and the people voting after you are people you've suspected. For all your back and forth with Bullzeye, you were swift to vote for DF, but not after calling out Sabie.

Made wrote:Ok, gonna put this out their because it's starting to piss me off too. Are we just cool with letting Sabie slide by? I mean I get the whole new person thing, but I was getting hit pretty hard suspicion wise in my first game. I mean it doesn't help that most of her theories so far seem to be ideas already brought up.

Sabie, I don't mean to discourage you if you are just new, but there's only so long before this sort of thing becomes suspicious. Who are you suspicious of and why?

(Also, who brought you to this website by the way?)

Linki-
So tell me, where do you stand on your previous suspects? Did your suspicion of Bullzeye just dwindle away? Or was it never genuine to begin with?

I refuse to answer these last question, but thanks for asking

thellama73 wrote:The only thing that gives me pause about Made is that his gameplay this game is nothing like it was in Monty Python. That makes me nervous

Good to know that's working

After further analysis, it's clear that there's at aleast three killers in this game
1.Mad hatter
2.Puppet slayer
3.A Ninja or prize killer.(note probably not allignment exclusive)

Using this logic remove the false pretence that everyone who died is civvie.

As it stands, I kinda thought APerson was mafia, but that was a gut read more than anything and probably just straight up wrong.

I'm leaving lunch. Mafia, please don't use my train of thought to get a civvie lynched while I'm gone.

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