The Syndicate

Well, there's this:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Chris wrote:

Dana wrote:<snip>
Okay guys can we be nice to each other? No one thinks anyone is stupid. Keys, the fact that he was targeted by a baddie team does not definitively mean he's good, but it does mean that he's statistically less likely to be bad, because that's 1/2 of the baddie teams that he's not on.

<snip>

You've never heard of a mafia team targeting one of their own, in order to throw off suspicion?

Being targeted slightly clears a players. But not all that much IMO if you survive. I mean, that's like me buying a lottery ticket, not winning, but saying I almost won.

MP wasn't killed.


*HOSTS*

Can a mafia team target a member of their own team with a kill, and have it fail on purpose?

No

But also this:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote: ATTENTION HOSTS

Could a player with a protection prize be targeted by his own team and have it foiled that way?

Hmmmmm.....technically, yes. I'd have to answer that question with 'yes'.

Still really doubt it happened.

Chris wrote:

Chris wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, I specifically JUST SAID if someone wants to peg me as Daleks or Master, sure, but they'd be wrong. I'm not using anything as "proof" that I'm good. I'm not telling anyone to accept anything.

I'm saying:

Fact. I survived an NK from the Cybermen. I claim to know why I survived. Fact, no one else has done so. Therefore, I am less likely to be bad than anyone else right now.

I don't suppose you're going to share with us exactly how you survived, will you?

It's really easy to make a claim when you have no plans to back that claim up with any sort of proof.

This is my favorite post of MPs...



HOSTS: If the Cybermen targeted The Cyber Controller with their team kill before they were all dead, would he survive the kill attempt?

To add to that

HOSTS: Can they do that?

Didn't we ask before and the answer was no, or am I making this up?

Also:

The first three attempts on his life will be blocked. Every night, he attempts to find Lucy Saxon, his wife/villainess. If he finds her, they gain BTSC. Due to his strong ability as a scientist, once in the game he can block every night action that night to be randomly redirected at someone other than the original target. This is up to and including kill attempts.

The word is probably not block, but we're so close. What could it be?

@Hosts: Are Dalek/Cyberman #1's roles "Block a player nightly?"

Surprised we haven't got that one yet.

zeek wrote:

Chris wrote:

Enrique wrote:There are CERTAINLY enough civ roles that he'd be able to claim... so, why is it a bad strategy? Because it's a wasted kill? That same kill is wasted just as much if you target someone with a protection...

This is why I doubt the theory, he said it was due to a prize for recruiting people to play, not his role. So why didn't he just say it was his role. He could have been really vague and everybody would have bought it.

Eloh?

Chris wrote:

Enrique wrote:TH, I'm not completely sure I know what you're talking about, but looking back at the roles I noticed this:

Jackie Tyler: The late-30s mother of Rose Tyler. She is wary of The Doctor at first and views him as a danger to her daughter. Eventually she warms up to him however. The first time she met The Doctor, she tried to seduce him (rather unsuccessfully) in a very awkward manner. Each night, she attempts to seduce another player, insanifying them for the subsequent day and night.

We haven't had an insanified player all game, have we?

MR was gone for all of Night 1. Is it possible that he was Jackie, forgot to send his PM and then died?

Or whoever had that role was blocked, and then subsequently died... but that's still only MR or whoever else it was that I said... too lazy to go look.

MR and TH1.0 are the only players to have been nightkilled. But you're right, maybe it was TH and he was blocked on the first night. I assume he's not allowed to talk about that

TH, I'm not completely sure I know what you're talking about, but looking back at the roles I noticed this:

Jackie Tyler: The late-30s mother of Rose Tyler. She is wary of The Doctor at first and views him as a danger to her daughter. Eventually she warms up to him however. The first time she met The Doctor, she tried to seduce him (rather unsuccessfully) in a very awkward manner. Each night, she attempts to seduce another player, insanifying them for the subsequent day and night.

We haven't had an insanified player all game, have we?

MR was gone for all of Night 1. Is it possible that he was Jackie, forgot to send his PM and then died?

That's... terrible strategy, honestly. MP wasn't under heavy heat by any means when the Cybermen tried to kill him. Certainly not enough for them to just waste their kill like this.

Every baddie's goal in this game is to kill everyone else. Kills are essential. I don't think it'd be worth throwing one away just to gain maybe a little civvie cred.

Epignosis wrote:

Enrique wrote:

juliets wrote:I see Epi - thats what I mean about things slipping through that seem small that add up to something bigger. I'll be interested to see what Enrique has to say about your observation.

I can tell you I thought all 3 were bad at the time, and that I really didn't expect a Snow Dog lynch to actually happen that day (or Epig at the time I voted for that matter). I've chosen poorly but considering all 3 of you got lynched it's not exactly like I'm the only one.

Am I interpreting this correctly? That you vote for people you don't think will actually get lynched?

Tell me how that's a civilian strategy. :wonka:

Oh, I missed this post.

I voted for the person I was the most suspicious of... do you actually expect me to be lynched every time you vote for me? I don't understand this argument.

Turnip Head wrote:If I'm still alive to see tomorrow then I'll be strongly considering an MP vote, yeah

What do you make of his survived kill attempt? If he's bad, and not a Cyberman, that would make him either a Dalek or an indy/secret role. The Daleks are also the team that killed you the first time around. Do you think MP would have actually done that?

Huge WIFOM territory, but at least I think he'd be smarter than that. It's not because of this, I just don't think MP is bad in this game.

TH, do you think you're gonna vote for MP tomorrow?

MovingPictures07 wrote:But sure, my vote sucked ass, I'm willing to admit. I feel terrible about it. But it doesn't make me bad.

I'm more than willing to consider a vote for MM, Enri, or Made, I just haven't made up my mind yet. I just don't want us to get collective tunnel vision, Rox, I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else. I understand why the votes look bad. Surely I do. I'm just saying that doesn't mean all of us or maybe even ANY of us are bad.

You've been name dropping me in every post you've made since Epig come back, but had completely dropped me while he was dead. What's going on? Had you forgotten how he felt?

And honestly I disagree with the whole "Epig has been throwing lots of suspicions around," but that's evidently not his baddie game, he just happens to be really wrong and really stubborn.

fingersplints wrote:MP - if keys was a baddie, he would be much more invested. I've said it before I am fairly confident he is a civvie. Chris, despite reassurances from others this is his civvie game, I am unsure of, but am feeling a little better about his posting lately.
How come it's bad for them to focus on certain individuals they think are bad? Roxy has been on hedgie for days, Epi is again pushing Enrique hard. I just don't see how being confident someone is bad automatically makes them bad. And it really feels like you feel that way because it's you they feel confident on.

I honestly only glanced over some of the Made/Dom stuff because it was getting a bit nasty, but I was reading Dom as a civvie and not feeling great about Made, but I'd like to do a better reread of that.

I don't think all the Snow Dog voters were bad, but for the most part that suspicion did seem to pop up out of nowhere suddenly which is why it seems like a save. I'd like to know about Made first before I decide who is his teammate and saving him. Same with daisy

By the time Snow Dog started getting votes, there were 3 players with 3 votes each and one with 5. If anyone was being saved, I'm sure there were ways to go around that without picking a new target at the last second.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

zeek wrote:Was talking in general about the talk about ties, MP, not to you.

I'm happy to be reread, so you can all see Key has completely taken my vote out of context.

Oh, okay, I just assumed you were talking about me since you didn't make any different specific comment to my proposal, but I suppose I could assume you think the same as you did last night.

Yeah, you won't be getting my vote.

I'm just bothered; I agree Snow Dog voters could be examined more carefully, but it's so easy to fixate on them and not be open to any other considerations. I had 3 votes and I had to be careful to vote so that I didn't leave myself open to be lynched. Snow Dog's actions seemed suspicious, even if he has a rep for generally being noncommittal.

A genius baddie honestly would have stayed the fuck away from placing their vote on any of the main vote getters because now they're completely avoiding anyone examining them.

Note: 11 different players were voted for yesterday (not accounting for vote changes). There was lots of throwing votes away while Snow Dog and Made (and to a lesser extent you, Daisy and Hedge) had the spotlight.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Even though I feel strongly about my actions this game and how they've been misinterpreted, I am willing to be one of those few players. I think it's only logical that Made, Enrique, Metalmarsh, Daisy, and maybe Hedgeowl make up possibilities for the remainder, even if I don't agree with all of them being there, but that would make 6 players. Is there any other player that anyone thinks should be prioritized over any of these 6 or thoughts on narrowing the pool down to 3 or 4?

I only got BR's vote yesterday, and most votes I get are usually drive-bys. Especially with the +1 tbh I feel uncomfortable with being in that shortlist... but I guess it can't make that big of a difference, right? People will still vote for who they think is bad.

linki @ juliets: His behavior at the end of the last lynch was super fishy. He said he'd prefer to see Snow Dog lynch, but still asked MP to change his vote to Made with him supposedly to make sure MP didn't get lynched. Of course he ended up voting for Snow Dog and SD was a civvie, but I can't help but think there was something to that lapse of reason. Two votes for Snow Dog would have made it a tie with Made, that's better already, no? Why would he try to convince MP to vote for Made first if he thought Snow Dog was the likelier baddie?

juliets wrote:I see Epi - thats what I mean about things slipping through that seem small that add up to something bigger. I'll be interested to see what Enrique has to say about your observation.

I can tell you I thought all 3 were bad at the time, and that I really didn't expect a Snow Dog lynch to actually happen that day (or Epig at the time I voted for that matter). I've chosen poorly but considering all 3 of you got lynched it's not exactly like I'm the only one.

And, yeah, tbh Epig is right in that I'm looking at an MM vote tomorrow. Of course there's still a lot of time for things to develop, but if the deadline was right now, that'd be where I'd place my vote.

S~V~S wrote:That is an extremely shitty result

Enrique wrote:

Gotrees wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Gotrees, what do you think of Made, did I miss it somewhere or are you unsure?

Right now, I'm mostly unsure about Made. I feel like he wouldn't have all those votes if he wasn't really suspicious (or something evil was going on), but right now, I'm just not really seeing the suspicions around him.

Dom: Could you link me the posts where he said he misread you so I can get a sense of the context?

Look at the voters. Four out of five are hardly involved in this game.

I am curious as to how being quieter makes them bad. They all voted early, Bass at least as I recall voiced prior suspicion of Made; you and he even had a bit of discussion on it, where Bass said you were defending Made, iirc. They all voted fairly early, which would make them a pretty crappy baddie team. And I think we do not have crappy baddies this game since we have only lynched civs. All but ONE of those Snowy votes came after Made took his last vote. I don't want to hear that they were saving Daisy, or anyone else.

I still think Daisy is bad (and look forward to people explaining to me why they think she is civ, I have an open mind), but am more than willing to look in Mades direction tomorrow. Then, depending on how that goes, we can look at the Snowy voters.

That was a horrible result, and the fact that it was so obvious made it even more horrible

I never said anything about them being bad... like, really, anything. Gotrees asked how Made got so many votes and I told him, well, it's mostly people who haven't been very involved and haven't exactly offered the best explanations. It isn't because he was all that suspicious.

Do you think Elo is that likely of a candidate? Didn't you and Daisy get more votes than her?

linki: lol right

So does that confirm The Valeyard as a role?

Also, every civ having +1 vote doesn't sound too bad... could've been worse consequences.

linki @ zeek: Why are we totally fucked? Surely that's a good thing? Smaller baddie influence on the poll.

WAIT OH! +1 vote as in, we start with a vote for us... shit never mind.

Dom wrote:

Enrique wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Enrique wrote:

Gotrees wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Gotrees, what do you think of Made, did I miss it somewhere or are you unsure?

Right now, I'm mostly unsure about Made. I feel like he wouldn't have all those votes if he wasn't really suspicious (or something evil was going on), but right now, I'm just not really seeing the suspicions around him.

Dom: Could you link me the posts where he said he misread you so I can get a sense of the context?

Look at the voters. Four out of five are hardly involved in this game.

Exactly. It's like how most of those people were on your case earlier this game.

Ok, so of the Made voters many seem fairly uninvolved in this game and came in and voted earlier. But the snow dog votes came in quite last minute, but from the more active players is that right? Has MM been suspecting someone other than Snow dog?

Grr I just made a post on my phone but it logs me out every time I try to submit. OK I'm on laptop now.

Just a couple minutes before the lynch was over, MM was begging MP to vote for Made. He said he'd much rather have Snow Dog lynched, but they needed to vote Made together to protect MP. Does that make sense to you? If they both voted for Snow Dog, that would have tied the poll, which I think is a more ideal result for what MM claimed to want. No. I think he realized a Made lynch wasn't obvious anymore, freaked out, and did his best to ensure he got lynched. I don't know if he did this to protect Snow Dog, Hedge, or something else, but it makes so little sense from the perspective he's trying to claim.

I'm confused though. If He was trying to get Made lynched, why not just vote Made?


Apology accepted, Made.

That's what he wanted to do. He was asking MP to change his vote until he got called out on how his plan made zero sense and so he changed it.

But um yeah that's not a bad point. Had he voted for Made already? Where was his vote?

linki- foogsndgsognweo

Hedgeowl wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Enrique wrote:

Gotrees wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Gotrees, what do you think of Made, did I miss it somewhere or are you unsure?

Right now, I'm mostly unsure about Made. I feel like he wouldn't have all those votes if he wasn't really suspicious (or something evil was going on), but right now, I'm just not really seeing the suspicions around him.

Dom: Could you link me the posts where he said he misread you so I can get a sense of the context?

Look at the voters. Four out of five are hardly involved in this game.

Exactly. It's like how most of those people were on your case earlier this game.

Ok, so of the Made voters many seem fairly uninvolved in this game and came in and voted earlier. But the snow dog votes came in quite last minute, but from the more active players is that right? Has MM been suspecting someone other than Snow dog?

Grr I just made a post on my phone but it logs me out every time I try to submit. OK I'm on laptop now.

Just a couple minutes before the lynch was over, MM was begging MP to vote for Made. He said he'd much rather have Snow Dog lynched, but they needed to vote Made together to protect MP. Does that make sense to you? If they both voted for Snow Dog, that would have tied the poll, which I think is a more ideal result for what MM claimed to want. No. I think he realized a Made lynch wasn't obvious anymore, freaked out, and did his best to ensure he got lynched. I don't know if he did this to protect Snow Dog, Hedge, or something else, but it makes so little sense from the perspective he's trying to claim.

I'm definitely looking at you tomorrow, MM. I've been following the thread for a while, talking when I have something to say, and guess what? I had something to say about you.

Gotrees wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Gotrees, what do you think of Made, did I miss it somewhere or are you unsure?

Right now, I'm mostly unsure about Made. I feel like he wouldn't have all those votes if he wasn't really suspicious (or something evil was going on), but right now, I'm just not really seeing the suspicions around him.

Dom: Could you link me the posts where he said he misread you so I can get a sense of the context?

Look at the voters. Four out of five are hardly involved in this game.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Enrique wrote:... how is it too late? If you both vote snow dog it's a tie between them.

Where have YOU been?

lol what does that mean?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

zeek wrote:Leave your vote then. Looks like it's over anyway. I just worry about a flurry of late votes.

linki x 10 okay, nvm

Yeah, looks like Made is a goner. And yeah, I worry about too especially in a game with changeable votes. That's partially why I asked if anyone was intending on changing their votes.

Enrique wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I guess I'm switching to Snow Dog for now, just to get it off LC.

Linki MM: Why should I vote Made?

To save Snow Dog / Hedgie, duh.

What are you thinking of all this, Enri?

Because he's not making any sense at all, and only compromised after Made being lynched wasn't so obvious anymore. BIG eye on MM after today.

... how is it too late? If you both vote snow dog it's a tie between them.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I guess I'm switching to Snow Dog for now, just to get it off LC.

Linki MM: Why should I vote Made?

To save Snow Dog / Hedgie, duh.

Also, this spread of votes... damn.

Honestly I have no idea of what's going on between Made and Dom so I'll just ignore it for now. Be nice, boys.

Really tempted to vote for Snow Dog. That last minute vote change doesn't sit well with me at all.

linki @ Dana: We're the same person.

I was gonna suggest a theory that Eloh could be one of the rolechecker baddies and knew one of those roles was available for claiming since MR died, but then I realized... MR wouldn't have died, then.

So yeah I don't know what to think.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Enrique wrote:

Bass voted Enrique D1 and D2 and essentially everything else he has said was that Epig was acting like his normal self

He said he was considering a vote for Epig, then one line later he was his "normal self." I definitely thought this was pingy and, had Epignosis flipped bad, Bass would definitely have gotten my vote. But he was good after all so I don't know what to make of that

Has LC been around since that post? I thought it was weird that splints specifically asked him for his opinion on Chris, but I dunno. She did offer a reason, because apparently Elsie is really good at reading Chris, but it still seemed odd to me that she'd single him out.

Top 3 suspects? I'm gonna say:

1. Dom
2. keys
3. Chris, maybe? Elo (backing off this one a little bit since her survival)? I want to hear more from Sabie, too.

Not super confident about any of these, but that's all I got.

DF is flying wayyy under the radar but I don't know if that's enough to get my vote yet. I want to give him a chance to show up and see what he has to say.

You put your top three suspects here.

Yup. Haven't I been completely opposed to MP's case against Daisy the whole time, though? Didn't he almost get me lynched on Day 1?

... who am I talking about lynching I'm actually kinda scared I have no idea where my vote is going yet.

No solid read on Made. He's a lot quieter than he was in Monty Python, surprisingly not freaking out over everything. I figure he might just be busy with college apps and such.

Bass voted Enrique D1 and D2 and essentially everything else he has said was that Epig was acting like his normal self

He said he was considering a vote for Epig, then one line later he was his "normal self." I definitely thought this was pingy and, had Epignosis flipped bad, Bass would definitely have gotten my vote. But he was good after all so I don't know what to make of that

Has LC been around since that post? I thought it was weird that splints specifically asked him for his opinion on Chris, but I dunno. She did offer a reason, because apparently Elsie is really good at reading Chris, but it still seemed odd to me that she'd single him out.

Top 3 suspects? I'm gonna say:

1. Dom
2. keys
3. Chris, maybe? Elo (backing off this one a little bit since her survival)? I want to hear more from Sabie, too.

Not super confident about any of these, but that's all I got.

DF is flying wayyy under the radar but I don't know if that's enough to get my vote yet. I want to give him a chance to show up and see what he has to say.

keys56000000000 wrote:

Henry wrote: But this whole case against [MP] is just so... irrational.

I suspect MP is hiding in plain sight. Dana defended him by asking if anyone would play like that if they were bad, an argument I don't think she would make unless they were mafia together. MP's defense of himself has involved things mafioso do to defend themselves, such as twisting people's words, putting negative spins on every attack, etc.

What's irrational about those conclusions?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

keys56000000000 wrote: ATTENTION HOSTS

Could a player with a protection prize be targeted by his own team and have it foiled that way?

Hmmmmm.....technically, yes. I'd have to answer that question with 'yes'.

Considering the way our host has chosen to word that answer, I'm going to assume that MP didn't self-target, and indeed isn't a Cyberthingy.

I just don't feel like you're making an effort to listen to what he's saying. You made up your mind, and no matter how he responds, you two keep going in circles.

To add to that, I very much doubt Dana has been the only person to offer any sort of WIFOM defense of anybody else. She wasn't even stating "Oh, he definitely wouldn't do that if he were bad, you must be wrong!" Dana is pretty new, and she was making an observation and asking the thread what we thought about it. Of course everybody picked on the WIFOM aspect of the defense almost immediately, but it doesn't seal any kind of deal. WIFOMs are circular arguments and it's silly to pretend to know somebody's alignment immediately because there was WIFOM involved.

Furthermore, and this has been asked a few times before, if MP's alignment is dependent on Dana being his teammate... then why are you trying to lynch him and not her? Now I understand that his responses have rubbed you the wrong way, but the basis of your case is still the fact that Dana defended him. I don't think either of them is bad, but one is (evidently) a much easier target than the other right now, and it makes me really wary of you that you'd go in so hard based on so little.

MovingPictures07 wrote:TH 2.0: I'm also curious if you have other players you're keeping your eye on and why. If you had to vote right now, who would it be for?

Enrique: Same question, what are you thinking right now?

This whole bandwagon or whatever it is against you is making me really uncomfortable. I don't think you're bad, and I don't think Daisy is bad, so I can't support you on that either. But this whole case against you is just so... irrational. Definitely makes me want to take a closer look at keys/Chris, though I know they weren't around for the first few days so they may just be clinging to the hot new perspective.

Dom continues to be jumpy as hell and I don't like it. I'm not sure about Elo; I don't agree with her case on Dana, but at least to me she looks more civvie than she did yesterday.

keys56000000000 wrote:I'm surprised MP keeps bringing up the failed night kill, if there are two baddie teams it obvious proves nothing. And yet, he keeps citing it. So absurd that anyone would suspect him after the failed NK.

Another thing, ATTENTION HOSTS

Could a player with a protection prize be targeted by his own team and have it foiled that way?

If the answer to that is yes, then the possibility remains that it was a self-target to throw people off. Great way to use an NK protection.

Not to get all WIFOMy again, but that's a terrible plan. MP wasn't even under heavy heat yesterday, why would he waste his kill like that when he could, you know, kill a civ/Dalek and get closer to a win?

fingersplints wrote:Posted too fast, Enrique, she did not clearly vote for him since that is the post after the one where she talks about being suspicious of Epi or Made. Like I said in an earlier post, Grotrees voted Epi after the poll ended, so Chris was not in fact the last.

linki - Dana - It seemed like two civvie options, yet you still voted one? I'm a little confused with your wording here.

linki - again. Enrique, I don't see her changing her vote. Unless I am missing a post, and in that case please find it for me.

That's what I'm saying. There was no post about either vote. But I was there, and she voted for Epig first before changing it.

fingersplints wrote:

sabie12 wrote:Thank you Gotrees for the explanation otherwise I'd have no idea what any of these places are. Went with Karn based on those explanations. At the very least it sounds better than the other options. Who wants gross farting aliens blech.
RIP Epi I didn't end up voting for you, but I guess it didn't help.

The implication is that she changed her vote. I'm not making stuff up

To clear something up re: the Epig voters, and I'm not sure I've even seen this mentioned at all in the thread. As I remember, sabie came in near the end of the poll. Somebody asked who she was voting for and she was like "idk i suspect made and epig." This was just a few minutes before the poll ended. I pretty clearly remember her voting for Epig, which would explain why Chris there were more voters after him, but the final poll results show her voting for Made. I don't think she ever posted about either vote, but I could be wrong.

Naptime.

oh nice what a revelation

hey zeek did you have info on night 1?

But we don't know why there should've been a push for zeek's planet either. Though that is a really good point about last night's post.

Because it seemed nice and good and people vouched for it? All the Azure votes were randoms or throwaways. But it was very close to winning anyway.

"If the coin lands heads or the..."

linki- Dana, what's suspicious was the push for Azure when there should've been none. I'm also pretty sure zeek confirmed he had info. Also, if you read the current night post, last night's planet choice might be really important depending on who we lynch today.

Where is this MP thing coming from? Honestly, at this point, I don't see him being a baddie. And I really can't behind keys' idea that we must lynch MP because Dana made a post defending him. Seriously, what? People in mafia defend people that they think are innocent. We're baddie-hunting, not player-hunting.

If I were to rank everyone in this game from (from my point of view) civviest to baddiest, MP would be damn close to the top. Sorry, I'm just not buying it, and it surprises me that so many people suddenly do when practically nothing has changed since last night (other than him surviving a baddie kill, which again, in no way makes him bad).

Metalmarsh89 wrote:It sounds to me that MP escaped death on his own while someone else prevented Elo's death. Great news though.

Why do you think Elo was protected? Didn't the gun just jam? How is that any indication of anything?

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Dom, an addendum: I suppose I've felt temporarily strong about various suspicions I've had throughout the game, but the lasting strength of the arguments didn't really stand up when I took a step back. If that makes sense.

This has me worried about you tbh.
you seem to be setting fires and then walking away from them. At first, I thought itwas you playing carefully... but you haven't stuck to a suspicion all game.

I don't see what's so wrong with that? We're looking at MP's thought process on the thread, he's been fairly transparent, and he's not leading us on and lying just for the sake of having an opinion. And as of tonight, we also know he's not a Cyberman.

Yeah, keys, you're getting a little ahead of yourself here. People will voice their interpretations of other players regardless of whether they're teammates or not. We're not trying to get anybody lynched here, we're actually trying to find the bad guys, and a defense of someone you think is innocent (or you have no reason to believe is bad) is not out of place. Personally I'm leaning civvie for both MP and Dana, and I very much doubt they're on a team together at least.

Does that sound like possible recruitment to you?

Right, but what I mean is that the secret roles now have the letter V. I couldn't find any others so I guess it's just not there?

linki- Or it could be a mistake, yeah, good point about the As.