The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:09 pm I actually forgot I had multiple possible shots. I just thought of myself as normal vig. Probably wouldn’t have done two anyway, cause that is a lot to potentially lose in worst case scenario. But yeah, I actually just forgot I could do multiple targets.

Also, my role being able to potentially kill multiple targets makes it even more obvious that it is not a mafia role. If you or others don’t get that or won’t accept that, I cannot help you.

My understanding is that me and Violet both die if any of us are chopped, as we are still lovered.

Violet did not concurs with your understanding in #977.

Balance-wise, extra shots from mafia (with high conditional factors - as you said, no D1 high-poster targetting, totally up to chance whether low- and high-thresholds even occur or occur for multiple players) is not unthinkable in light of several confirmed vig shots. The game has a clear shoot-out bonanza edge. That it is D3 and we are sadly at MYLO phase is an outcome - but another could have been that we could have already dealt lethal to mafia, just as well. Maybe mafia received something in balance for that.

Forgot a third point I was gonna make, but it came back now: your slankvig shot is the only night-only vig shot that you ask of us to interpret assuredly as town. As in, mafia arguably only nightkills, all confirmed town vigs did it during the Day, yet yours is night-bound, but also confirmable town. How?

I don't act as if I'm not listening, if that's what your feeling, so try not to take it that way.

Roles factor in, for sure. If I were to go the exoneration path entirely and clear you and Violet, I would be left with only two viable candidates. lucy and Daisy. Can we work on that?

Roles factor aside, I cannot clear you for your gameplay. Emotional-tinged as claiming "you tried to solve the game" may be, I don't see clearance in that since both Days you wagoned lynches with no belief in being mafia.

Fourth point: you claimed the Ruri kill well into Day 2. You left it up in the air for about a third or quarter of the phase.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:42 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:39 pm Fourth point: you claimed the Ruri kill well into Day 2. You left it up in the air for about a third or quarter of the phase.
As is custom to do. What is wrong with that?

Casts some perception of hesitation or late coming-truthful-with-it. Why not claim it beginning of phase?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:52 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:38 pm Forgot a third point I was gonna make, but it came back now: your slankvig shot is the only night-only vig shot that you ask of us to interpret assuredly as town. As in, mafia arguably only nightkills, all confirmed town vigs did it during the Day, yet yours is night-bound, but also confirmable town. How?

I don't act as if I'm not listening, if that's what your feeling, so try not to take it that way.

Roles factor in, for sure. If I were to go the exoneration path entirely and clear you and Violet, I would be left with only two viable candidates. lucy and Daisy. Can we work on that?

Roles factor aside, I cannot clear you for your gameplay. Emotional-tinged as claiming "you tried to solve the game" may be, I don't see clearance in that since both Days you wagoned lynches with no belief in being mafia.
Mafia wouldn’t get a multiple shot vig, no matter how conditional. And if they actually did, they wouldn’t let it go. That’s the end of my argument. It being not totally unthinkable to plural you is not something that makes me a good vote. Forget about confirming. Is it likely. Beyond that, I’m still not mafia. If people still want to vote me, that is their prerogative, and they can argue for how it was like totally a rational choice with the information on hand after the game.

I’m not exonerating Violet based on role. In my game, game 3, mafia had exactly a loverizer role. (Although in that game roles and alignments were random).

I addressed the end of your argument. This role, as mafia, could have been dropped in light of witnessing that under-5 and over-150 post count are extremely unlikely to occur in this game.

"I'm not exonerating Violet based on role"

So, if Violet is mafia loverizer, and Violet's description of the role is genuine, Violet would explode upon mafia killing them. Aka their teammates.

Make that make sense. Make the role make sense as mafia role, as per how Violet described it.

You are also not addressing that VIolet does not confirm your loverizer take. (#977)

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:58 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:45 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:42 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:39 pm Fourth point: you claimed the Ruri kill well into Day 2. You left it up in the air for about a third or quarter of the phase.
As is custom to do. What is wrong with that?
Casts some perception of hesitation or late coming-truthful-with-it. Why not claim it beginning of phase?
Because sometimes mafia slip that they have information they shouldn’t have. It’s almost always beneficial to claim info well into the day. If you go back, you can see I asked about Moon’s assumptions about the Ruri shot before I revealed it. Lucy also said something about three town kills. Which was suss honestly. So yeah, I’m looking to see how people react when only I have the info first. There was also no need to say it early. The only important thing to me was that I didn’t die without revealing the info.

Fair enough.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:59 pm Epi, I concur that Rico looks very much like mafia Golden in Game 1 right now.

That was said towards Dizzy.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:01 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:56 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:13 pm Yeah, me and Violet die together
What are your feelings about violets alignment and I need to understand what that means for the numbers but I'm also under a deadline for a file and my brain can't process much today.

Given Triplehaven's role, I am kind of wondering about the likelihood of the role violet has claimed being town when we know there was already one neighborizor or whatever the fuck we call them that we absolutely know was town. I need to read back over their role.
Violet has done nothing townie and almost nothing at all as far as I’m concerned. Voting him out could go both ways.

I mean, I should probably go reread, but I’m on phone and not really feeling motivated to. Sorry

If you are town, how tactical do you find it was to not attempt a vig kill on Violet, not push enough for a Violet clear two Days in a row and reach a state of "let's see how it pans out" on MYLO?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:05 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:01 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:59 pm Epi, I concur that Rico looks very much like mafia Golden in Game 1 right now.
That was said towards Dizzy.
Well, it is you who has major mafia Golden vibes going on imo.

How do you define those vibes? And why project a different game's different player's moveset onto here?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm
Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:32 pm Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.
@Ricochet Is this the post you are referring to?

Yes.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:11 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:09 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:05 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:01 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:59 pm Epi, I concur that Rico looks very much like mafia Golden in Game 1 right now.
That was said towards Dizzy.
Well, it is you who has major mafia Golden vibes going on imo.
How do you define those vibes? And why project a different game's different player's moveset onto here?
You didn’t have a problem with that when it was to me lol

I didn't cover it this morning or in my Epignosis filing, I'll admit. They're free to express it, but on principle it would be ideal not to profile such outer meta, yes. Reasoning on potential sheeping can be worded properly.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:13 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm
Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:32 pm Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.
@Ricochet Is this the post you are referring to?
Yes.
And you can’t see how that possibly can be a mafia role?

If Violet did not lie about the role description, then... no?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:15 pm Worried about saving a teammate?

I may have to save myself, for starters.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:18 pm Why isn't Rico just self pres voting already?

I finished posting and logged off for my friend visit. I stated who I could vote and currently the sole avenue is Dizzy, due to self-pres. There's no tactic behind voting the self-pres at any given point, things can still change for an hour and half. Self-pres is the last resort move.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:19 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:18 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:13 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm
Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:32 pm Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.
@Ricochet Is this the post you are referring to?
Yes.
And you can’t see how that possibly can be a mafia role?
If Violet did not lie about the role description, then... no?
First of all, Violet could just lie if mafia, no?

Also, second of all, the role could just work in the same way as Violet describes, just by taking down town with him instead of taking down mafia with him, no?

You are showing your TMI.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:22 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:17 pm I'm tempted to shake shit up and vote lucy right now.

I really don't feel like what I'm seeing from Dizzy is a wolf look.
I think it's better to leave it on Rico. I'm pretty sure he just TMIed Violet town as he also TMIed TSP town.

He's taking Violet's claim as truth, even though it's just Violet's words and not a flipped role. He's also taking how Violet says to use the role for granted. He's not considering that the role claim might be true, but the intent for targeting and the use of the role might be different. I think he just knows Violet is town and can't understand how the role could be used from mafia.

I also think he TMIed TSP town real hard.

So I think it's either Rico/Epig or Rico/Lucy. Don't know which. And this is probably too little too late.

Yes, Violet could.

Hypothesis A

a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
b) This role is entirely fake (the BTSC). Violet is mafia. Dizzy and Violet could have crafted this narrative as mafia.[/QUOTE}

Will admit I didn't think of Violet crafting only the "wolves dare to kill me" part.

Messed up the second quote and left it in there.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:26 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:19 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:18 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:13 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 pm
Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:32 pm Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.
@Ricochet Is this the post you are referring to?
Yes.
And you can’t see how that possibly can be a mafia role?
If Violet did not lie about the role description, then... no?
First of all, Violet could just lie if mafia, no?

Also, second of all, the role could just work in the same way as Violet describes, just by taking down town with him instead of taking down mafia with him, no?

You are showing your TMI.

Yes, Violet could.

Hypothesis A

a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
b) This role is entirely fake (the BTSC). Violet is mafia. Dizzy and Violet could have crafted this narrative as mafia.[/QUOTE}

Will admit I didn't think of Violet crafting only the "wolves dare to kill me" part.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:22 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:17 pm I'm tempted to shake shit up and vote lucy right now.

I really don't feel like what I'm seeing from Dizzy is a wolf look.
I think it's better to leave it on Rico. I'm pretty sure he just TMIed Violet town as he also TMIed TSP town.

He's taking Violet's claim as truth, even though it's just Violet's words and not a flipped role. He's also taking how Violet says to use the role for granted. He's not considering that the role claim might be true, but the intent for targeting and the use of the role might be different. I think he just knows Violet is town and can't understand how the role could be used from mafia.

I also think he TMIed TSP town real hard.

So I think it's either Rico/Epig or Rico/Lucy. Don't know which. And this is probably too little too late.
It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:30 pm "It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.

Alas.

We're speaking WIFOM language here, but why would I not glee or attempt to hop on at TSP getting flak and mislynched, if Dolby were my teammate and this was the prevalent conclusion town had reached from Dolby's flip?

Reminder that I'm down to lucy and Daisy as wolves if I am to believe that the role claims from Dizzy (original) and Violet (current) are town - even though Dizzy only wants their role townread and not Violet's.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:35 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:32 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:30 pm "It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.
Alas.

We're speaking WIFOM language here, but why would I not glee or attempt to hop on at TSP getting flak and mislynched, if Dolby were my teammate and this was the prevalent conclusion town had reached from Dolby's flip?
You didn't know town would reach that conclusion. You also didn't need to add on TSP. He was going down without your help and you had already argued for him being town.

It's not about what conclusion town reached in the end, it's about how I argued that the bus scenario is too extreme and mostly everyone said nah. We were in the midst of discussing it.

Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:39 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:37 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:35 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:32 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:30 pm "It is incorrect to assume I towncleared TSP with back knowledge. I argued against the extreme case of TSP bussing Dolby that savage for a full game. My argument was disputed by several and not followed."

Well, you were the only one who saw it that way.
Alas.

We're speaking WIFOM language here, but why would I not glee or attempt to hop on at TSP getting flak and mislynched, if Dolby were my teammate and this was the prevalent conclusion town had reached from Dolby's flip?
You didn't know town would reach that conclusion. You also didn't need to add on TSP. He was going down without your help and you had already argued for him being town.
It's not about what conclusion town reached in the end, it's about how I argued that the bus scenario is too extreme and mostly everyone said nah. We were in the midst of discussing it.
Yes?

So if you are mafia, you knew TSP was town, thought that would obvious because of how he acted towards Dolby and argued for that.

WIFOM.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:39 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:38 pm Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".
No. He has not called it mistaken.

He literally did.

Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:32 pm Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:40 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:37 pm All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.
It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.

Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:45 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:41 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:39 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:38 pm Dizzy and Violet blowing up as lovers hinges on Dizzy and Violet having been loverized which Dizzy claims and Violet has called it "mistaken".
No. He has not called it mistaken.
He literally did.

Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:32 pm Some call me the loverizer. They are mistaken, as I am much more like a hostage taker. I pair myself with a player I suspect is a wolf and if wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own. If I used my powers succesfully that is.

Currently I think Rico and Dizzy are the likeliest wolves. Boq started to trouble me a bit after TSP's flip, but that slot doesn't require solving any longer.

We are literally loverized. HE CONTINUES "it's more like a hostage taker". It is the exact same effect. Loverized is the word the host used. Violet is claiming it in a different flavour to try and show how the role is town sided. But it is the same effect. Me and Violet do not disagree.

I don't know how to interpret "hostage taking". @Violet could clear it up. As also clearing up if you two blow up together, to which the "wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own" bit sounds completely apart.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:46 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:43 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:40 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:37 pm All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.
It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.
Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?
It's not a vig shot. Nobody is talking about a vig shot.

It's just that we die as a pair. If one die, so does the other. It's not a shot.

Poorly termed. A booby trap. Violet claims to be a mafia booby trap, if correctly "paired with a wolf".

"wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own"

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:49 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:46 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:43 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:40 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:37 pm All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.
It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.
Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?
It's not a vig shot. Nobody is talking about a vig shot.

It's just that we die as a pair. If one die, so does the other. It's not a shot.
Poorly termed. A booby trap. Violet claims to be a mafia booby trap, if correctly "paired with a wolf".

"wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own"

I'm losing faith in this arguing.

Dizzy: Violet's role is that we blow up together.

Violet: My role is that wolves blow up if the kill me.

Dizzy: me and violet said the same thing!

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:51 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:49 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:46 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:43 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:40 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:37 pm All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.
It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.
Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?
It's not a vig shot. Nobody is talking about a vig shot.

It's just that we die as a pair. If one die, so does the other. It's not a shot.
Poorly termed. A booby trap. Violet claims to be a mafia booby trap, if correctly "paired with a wolf".

"wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own"
"wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own"

Because that is what happens when we are loverized.

It's also poorly conceived from Violet's side. Because obviously, mafia wouldn't shoot Violet in the case one of them was loverized with him.

I'm starting to think that chopping me and Violet might be a good idea actually lol

Violet said nothing about you dying together if lynched (by the field). Either how is that not different or why wouldn't he have said it?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:52 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:46 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:42 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:40 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:39 pm
lucy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:19 pm is nobody gonna discuss the shot?
Yeah, nobody cares. Who would you shoot if you were me and Rico?
dolby or phraze, probably phraze cause i’m bias
Biased how?
many games with phraze not posting much at all, she doesn’t give me enough posts to let me intuition do it’s thing, dolby has a 400 poster so he can possible contribute more which will let us read his alignment better and he’ll contribute more, phraze is absent of this

viewtopic.php?t=2322
Who is phraze?

Ruri.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:53 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:51 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:49 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:46 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:43 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:40 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:37 pm All of this hinges on Violet's claim being true.
It is true. Either it is true, or both of me and Violet are lying. In which case, we are both mafia and decided to come up with a lie that makes it LIKELIER that one of us is getting chopped.
Let's work on that.

You saying you had chat is true.

Violet saying they just lock on to mafia and blow them up if nightkilled is not.

In that case.

[QUOTE}
a) This role’s vig shot mechanic is fake, but BTSC occured for real. Violet is mafia. Dizzy is not.
[/QUOTE}

Do we lynch Violet?
It's not a vig shot. Nobody is talking about a vig shot.

It's just that we die as a pair. If one die, so does the other. It's not a shot.
Poorly termed. A booby trap. Violet claims to be a mafia booby trap, if correctly "paired with a wolf".

"wolves dare to kill me, they'll lose one of their own"
I'm losing faith in this arguing.

Dizzy: Violet's role is that we blow up together.

Violet: My role is that wolves blow up if the kill me.

Dizzy: me and violet said the same thing!

THEY ARE THE SAME THING.

Jesus. Christ.

Violet is just arguing it from a point of view where he's town. He has also said that we both die if we are town.

Here:

Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:55 pm Since wolves might need one more miselim, and I am self aware enough to note that I would be rather easy push today, I decided to take an insurance for the chance that I'm killed today. If I die, town loses only if we both are town.

Being killed by mafia and being lynched is the same thing.

Faith lost. Stopping here.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:48 pm It seems to me that lucy is a member of the most remaining possible permutations of the wolf team.

[VOTE: lucy] aubergine

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:56 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:48 pm It seems to me that lucy is a member of the most remaining possible permutations of the wolf team.
[VOTE: lucy] aubergine

Mind you, Daisy, if this clears wolf, you are my only remaining wolf possibility.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:58 pm @Ricochet Did you read this:

Violet wrote: ↑Fri Nov 18, 2022 8:55 pm Since wolves might need one more miselim, and I am self aware enough to note that I would be rather easy push today, I decided to take an insurance for the chance that I'm killed today. If I die, town loses only if we both are town.

Yes.

Mulling.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:00 pm It is interesting to me that Daisy was invested in me being town and wanting Lucy over Rico.

Makes me wonder about a Violet/Daisy team. But I'm fine with giving the win to Daisy.

Outline for me once more, please, why Violet would be wolf loverizer, if everything he stated is accurate.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:08 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:03 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:00 pm It is interesting to me that Daisy was invested in me being town and wanting Lucy over Rico.

Makes me wonder about a Violet/Daisy team. But I'm fine with giving the win to Daisy.
Outline for me once more, please, why Violet would be wolf loverizer, if everything he stated is accurate.
He doesn't have to be, but he could be. He could be town or wolf. As town, the role would be used to loverize with someone you think is mafia, so to bring them down with you. However, this doesn't make a lot of sense. Because if you as town successfully loverize with mafia, then mafia would never NK you anyway. I was told that I was loverized, so in the event that Violet was town and I was wolf, I would never kill him!

As wolf, you can loverize to drag someone down with you if you are chopped. Violet was fairly likely to be chopped, so could use the role in that way. It's not a particularly strong role as wolf either.

The way Violet is renaming it to a "hostage situation" is kind of suss imo. Because the wording we got was that we are loverized. Why not just say that plainly? As you see, he did confirm what I said, that we would both die if he is killed.

"If I die, town loses only if we are both town."

Doesn't that "die" translate to lynch as well?

Why doesn't "As town, the role would be used to loverize with someone you think is mafia" not make "a lot of sense". That was my exoneration point for Violet role being town all along.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:14 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:11 pm Why doesn't "As town, the role would be used to loverize with someone you think is mafia" not make "a lot of sense". That was my exoneration point for Violet role being town all along.
I mean, that is what you would do with the role if you are town, I guess. It's just - it would never result in actually taking mafia down by NK, because they wouldn't NK you. It could result in you taking mafia down by chop, of course. But mafia would be well aware of the binding, so would try to avoid chopping you. Do you see what I'm saying?

Kind of like how Daisy was well aware that Violet would be chopped in the end with me, if she didn't move everything to Lucy

It's kind of just a weird role overall.

Mulling some more.

Violet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:22 pm I'm now caught up. I do not think Lucy is the right kill here, so I will put my vote on Rico.

Honestly, I would prefer blowing up both me and Dizzy over chopping Lucy.

But do you read Dizzy mafia and want to go through with that?

I don't understand Violet preferring to "be removed with Dizzy for not being trusted" and then voting an option that won't make that happen.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:30 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:28 pm I don't understand Violet preferring to "be removed with Dizzy for not being trusted" and then voting an option that won't make that happen.
Maybe you should ask him about it.

What he said was he preferred that over Lucy.

I did.

He did say he preferred that.

And voted me.

And two votes followed.

Which will not create the thing he preferred.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:31 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:30 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:28 pm I don't understand Violet preferring to "be removed with Dizzy for not being trusted" and then voting an option that won't make that happen.
Maybe you should ask him about it.

What he said was he preferred that over Lucy.
I did.

He did say he preferred that.

And voted me.

And two votes followed.

Which will not create the thing he preferred.

Either or both Violet and Dizzy may indeed not desire to blow up.

Because of being wolf.

I cannot save myself alone on Dizzy, so I am doomed without reconsideration from others

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:33 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:10 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:07 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:03 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:58 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:51 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:47 pm I think Dyslexicon is town.

Don't think its worth over-thinking them even if they're from a champs final game some time ago, since my gut feels good about them right now.

Also, like, a number of people aren't contributing much right now so not even worth to consider higher-posting players atm imo
Why Dolby of the low-post tier?
1. why wouldn't he be, hasn't even posted after my vote on them and only three posts; in most games I have played that is less than the minimum post count (there doesn't seem to be a clarified minimum post count for this game, though?)

2. he himself said he prob was going to low-post
1. Didn't ask why at all, rather why him of all who would qualify thus far. His second post was responsive to MO inquiry.

Dunno about minimum post ruling, but as far as lowest of low-posting goes, I believe there's still a player with zero.

2. So?
as much as I would elaborate with my own reasons and observations with respect to your response

our disagreement here sorta reads like it would drive right into a semantics and perceptions argument

which in my experience are rarely productive
My main concern is that your initial vote was blank and your reasoning boils down to "why not?" a bit.

Actual defense of Dolby. Damn. And then tried to spin it around on Martin.

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:00 pm
Null towards sus
Dolby - one post out of three that can somewhat constitute interaction (answering MO) and picking small details/nuances off lucy; for a poster stating intent to not "do stuff", it's not nothing atm
"Towards sus" leads me to believe Rico would have something negative to say about Dolby, but this looks like a positive? Maybe I'm misreading it.

Martin had a blank. I questioned it.

Low posters are sus for me on principle bias. Of all the vast "uncertain" field, Dolby had achieved the minimum to not ping me as much..

My participation likely concludes at the same spot of reasoning and figuring-out that I started in the first place this afternoon.

If Violet and Dizzy town based on roles, remaining wolves can only be lucy and Daisy.

Nobody wants either lynched.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:41 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:40 pm My participation likely concludes at the same spot of reasoning and figuring-out that I started in the first place this afternoon.

If Violet and Dizzy town based on roles, remaining wolves can only be lucy and Daisy.

Nobody wants either lynched.
Daisy was the one who moved the train from you to Lucy in the first place though. They are obviously not teamed imo

There are no other possibilities, in my POE.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:42 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:40 pm My participation likely concludes at the same spot of reasoning and figuring-out that I started in the first place this afternoon.

If Violet and Dizzy town based on roles, remaining wolves can only be lucy and Daisy.

Nobody wants either lynched.
What about Epig?

Cleared him too.

Daisy has nothing to reconsider in that case, because she is wolf.

Epignosis could reconsider both

a) how bombers (who, through their own loverization, are not guaranteed t/t) wanted, but then retracted blowing up.
b) my lucy / daisy conclusion by actual process of elimination (with faith in role claims being town)

Pointless vote on no self-pres.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:48 pm I mean. We do lose to Lucy/Violet. That could be a world. In which case, Lucy's vote on me was a cool move.

A vote there won't save me anymore, so free question: how can you wolf Violet and not want him blown and follow him on me?

Good luck town, hope you block the night kill.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:55 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:53 pm Good luck town, hope you block the night kill.
Well, I'm sorry if you are town. Then this has not been a great showing by any town, except Jack.

You were sorry for every town mislynch. It's ok. Or a pattern. Cheers.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:57 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:56 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:55 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:53 pm Good luck town, hope you block the night kill.
Well, I'm sorry if you are town. Then this has not been a great showing by any town, except Jack.
You were sorry for every town mislynch. It's ok. Or a pattern. Cheers.
I was.

Whilst mislynching them.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:57 pm Well, right now, this doesn't feel good either. So

Violet/Lucy maybe. Oh well.

Third work-around and waffle around the mislynch.

Epig, Daisy. Now or never. Please.

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