The Syndicate

MP: if Misa relinquishes her DN on the Day she is also voted to be lynched, is that Day the first of the three Days in which she is unlynchable?

DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:EBWOP: By lynched, I obviously mean just that she was the lynch target.
She would have had to give up her note in order not to be lynched, the subsequent three lynch periods being Day 8 Day 9 and Day 10.

I'd ask the Host just to be sure.

EBWOP: By lynched, I obviously mean just that she was the lynch target.

zeek wrote:Caught up. I am satisfied with FZ given the lynch fail and would like to move on. (Any ideas how long we should wait to lynch Mata now we're in another day period?)

I'm interested in reviewing BR, Bass and boo. And back to work I go

Can I ask why, re: FZ?

Another Day, I think, after this one; in other words, starting D12 she would be lynchable, if she's Misa).

linki: Mata was lynched D8. Subsequent three Days means D9, D10, D11.

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:
Ricochet wrote:FZ., why do you find DP genuine? His D7 vote was "I'm going where all the most votes are going". His D8 was "I'm voting with Mata because I agree with her voters". His D9 vote was "I'm going with Bass even if it's currently pointless".
So you're criticizing my D9 vote for not doing the same thing as my previous 2 votes which you are also criticizing?

They're not in the same category, but after D7 and D8 votes with no reasoning (except in the votes comments), you voted on D9 based on a reasoning you gave only when asked about it. Wasn't as inclined as FZ. to say "oh look he seems back on track now".

Turnip Head wrote:So you're saying you don't have an opinion one way or another about FZ right now?

Not a clear one, no.

Turnip Head wrote:You didn't answer my question. What is your current opinion of FZ's role?

You quoted it in the question you asked me in the first place. I think the word "conflicted" is also meaningful as to what I think of her. I can't really say more until that consequence that I mentioned takes place or not.

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:I'm conflicted about FZ. post-lynch, because I said L's report afterwards would be most relevant and now he'll either be killed before submitting one or will have to be really insinuative about a DN transfer (he didn't exactly put the information out there, in case Matahari is Misa, which makes me believe he can only hint at it) if he can still get a message through in time. Of course there's still the survey on Higuchi we might get (for Namikawa's phone call) to point out if Light let go of his DN and Higuchi has it now. If none of this happens or is clear, I think it's possible FZ. is actually what she claims to be.
Rico, does this mean that you're still operating under the belief that FZ is Light until we're told otherwise from either L or from Namikawa's phone call?

FZ.'s failed lynch having the consequence of a DN transfer (announced either by L or from Namikawa's phone call and the round up of detectives input in that regard) will fuel that belief. The opposite will move it closer to an exoneration.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Mikami gains BTSC with Takada only once he has started killing. If Takada is deceased at that time, Mikami will not be able to contact anyone, but god (Light) will be made aware of his true identity.

This is getting humiliating for me.

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Anyway, I also think one of them, at least, took the Eye Deal. If MM is Ryuk, he also hinted in his shout-out to Mikami yesterday that "he" (read: they) knows who he is, so they probably found him in one of their kill checks, and today, that L is next.
Why do you think L is next?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Also.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:And also.

Anyway, I also think one of them, at least, took the Eye Deal. If MM is Ryuk, he also hinted in his shout-out to Mikami yesterday that "he" (read: they) knows who he is, so they probably found him in one of their kill checks, and today, that L is next.

linki: Not ignored, I really went back and checked Light's details and forgot about Ryuk. And I just said to FZ. earlier that I have a real problem holding all the roles' details in one hand as to not fuck up my theories along the way, as I've proven to do throughout this game.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I do think looking at Epignosis is a great place to start for finding Higuchi, but personally I'm not convinced yet that Higuchi has even got his Death Note. If Mata or FZ passed a Death Note to Higuchi, we will become aware of it very soon through the phone call, but it hasn't happened yet, so Higuchi hunting might still be a bit premature. That said, I'm not sure which Kira would be the best to specifically look for today, other than Mikami, who's always a good bet to die.

I think it's time to start talking about Black Rock. In my opinion she's been neglecting this game to the point where I'm officially uncomfortable about her allegiance. I think she would be much more involved if she's a detective, but even if she's a Sympathizer I think she would be posting more because she would have more of a handle on the game, so this makes me think she is Yotsuba. It seems to me that BR doesn't much care to be involved in the discussions, maybe she doesn't care which way the lynch ultimately swings, and that seems to fit Yotsuba's goals more than the other factions. There's only one Yotsuba we need dead though, and like I said, that role still might be unkillable. But I'm curious to hear what people think of her.
I thought you thought FZ. was detective.

What do you think of my idea that Mata could potentially be Higuchi? I mean, I can guess what you think she is instead, but still: 50-50 chance, if L's read on her is truthful.

linki: huh? Where does it say Light can accept the Eye Deal?
Ryuk's role:
Once Raye Penber has started following Light, Ryuk offers Light the Shinigami Eye deal. If Light takes the offer, Light can role check two players every night but he must kill one of those two players.

Oh, wow. Sorry about that. Forgot completely.

Turnip Head wrote:I do think looking at Epignosis is a great place to start for finding Higuchi, but personally I'm not convinced yet that Higuchi has even got his Death Note. If Mata or FZ passed a Death Note to Higuchi, we will become aware of it very soon through the phone call, but it hasn't happened yet, so Higuchi hunting might still be a bit premature. That said, I'm not sure which Kira would be the best to specifically look for today, other than Mikami, who's always a good bet to die.

I think it's time to start talking about Black Rock. In my opinion she's been neglecting this game to the point where I'm officially uncomfortable about her allegiance. I think she would be much more involved if she's a detective, but even if she's a Sympathizer I think she would be posting more because she would have more of a handle on the game, so this makes me think she is Yotsuba. It seems to me that BR doesn't much care to be involved in the discussions, maybe she doesn't care which way the lynch ultimately swings, and that seems to fit Yotsuba's goals more than the other factions. There's only one Yotsuba we need dead though, and like I said, that role still might be unkillable. But I'm curious to hear what people think of her.

I thought you thought FZ. was detective.

What do you think of my idea that Mata could potentially be Higuchi? I mean, I can guess what you think she is instead, but still: 50-50 chance, if L's read on her is truthful.

linki: huh? Where does it say Light can accept the Eye Deal?

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:If TH, for instance, will prove to have been genuine in his help and level of deductions, that he's been kicking ass in this game - but if the contrary, he's just been very "informed".
Can you explain what you mean by this, Rico? What do you mean I've been very "informed"?

Meaning if you're in Team Light and your deductions are based on having more knowledge about things than a two-player BTSC or individual player work*. For instance, your take on Misa's Note going to Light if she relinquishes it (or to Higuchi / Mikami??

I remember a quote from you in that regard as well, yesterday). This is still really nothing certain from the roles about that, especially now that it's revealed Light might also get Rem's note, if she sacrifices herself. But it's an astute idea nevertheless. The difference is that, if you're in Team Light, that sort of information becomes rather more "factual".

*hmm, well, since you claim Shinigaminess, you're actually either in a team of two or a team of four anyway.

I'm conflicted about FZ. post-lynch, because I said L's report afterwards would be most relevant and now he'll either be killed before submitting one or will have to be really insinuative about a DN transfer (he didn't exactly put the information out there, in case Matahari is Misa, which makes me believe he can only hint at it) if he can still get a message through in time. Of course there's still the survey on Higuchi we might get (for Namikawa's phone call) to point out if Light let go of his DN and Higuchi has it now. If none of this happens or is clear, I think it's possible FZ. is actually what she claims to be. (Unlike Epig, FZ., I will probably offer some post-game apologies if you prove to be a detective, because the whole thing will prove once and for all how much I suck at trusting player's genuine civ claims, judging by this game and Film

).

I'm not sure about her connection with Boomslang's kill either, wasn't our understanding of Kira's kills that he still has to schedule them during the Night, even if he delays them until later during the next Day? I get that she could still have been aware of this kill, if she's part of Team Light, but in that case, like TH said, I see no reason or positive outcome for her to comment openly about this right before it happened.

FZ., why do you find DP genuine? His D7 vote was "I'm going where all the most votes are going". His D8 was "I'm voting with Mata because I agree with her voters". His D9 vote was "I'm going with Bass even if it's currently pointless".

Also, I forgot to post earlier, but: you said you don't give a shit about the theme and it's too complicated to follow and that doesn't make you a baddie (when Epig criticized you), but are critical of me apparently not relying enoough on the "extra" stuff?

Not sure about Llama, even though he said he could come with many good options, then just circled back to FZ. and TH (+ Epig). I wouldn't be surprised for him to be a detective with a vision the length of Laerdal Tunnel.

Also, even though I get how Epig would be most suspicious for his gameplay, I don't know how I feel about throwing in so many new and unverified names for Higuchi, when context points at Mata being either him or Misa. I find that a better statistical likelihood compared to normal gameplay interpretations. Then again, I seem to be the only one so far believing that, so give me more insight on why Epig would really stick out as an obvious Higuchi, because when the time comes for the detectives to answer the survey for Namikawa's call, it'd be definitely a good idea not to spread our votes much.

Well I just had to give my Speaking proficiency test on topics with 0% accuracy of fucks given such as helping strangers, unpaid community work and trees. Yes, TREES. I was so close to answer that I don't care and I'd rather be at home playing Mafia right now.

RIP Watari old man.

Not a good situation right now.

FZ., I am constantly trying to rely on the "extra" stuff, but I'll admit I may not be doing a very good job at it. I usually get deterred by the various levels of uncertainty in what I can deduce rather than going with it no matter how uncertain it can be. If TH, for instance, will prove to have been genuine in his help and level of deductions, that he's been kicking ass in this game - but if the contrary, he's just been very "informed".

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Mikami should have killed him/herself.

In fact, Mikami should do that today as well.

Did Mikami not comitting suicide foiled your team's plans yesterday?

Have to go to sleep, sticking with FZ. I think we have to assess her lynch fail just like the others, mostly through L's further signals on it. Bass is more of a secondary suspect for me (as in not entirely strong), partly because of his RL issue and because he's not quite my idea of a lying-in-wait crucial baddie - although I don't tend to believe even a very distracted detective would find that the person who survived a lynch is still the top person to focus on (and do that twice in a row and part of an alledged catch-up process). I don't think DP has voted yet today, but his last two votes were also bandwagon and he's more in touch with the game, for instance. I also think BR should not vanish from the suspects' radar.

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:Im going to go ahead and vote FZ. I agree that its odd that she is defending so hard if she is going to survive. My top suspect is mata but we can't lynch her today.

RIP Boom
Holy hell, your top suspect is a proven unlynchable yet again.
How does this affect your opinion of Bass, Rico?

It does nothing but to worsen it.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Im going to go ahead and vote FZ. I agree that its odd that she is defending so hard if she is going to survive. My top suspect is mata but we can't lynch her today.

RIP Boom

Holy hell, your top suspect is a proven unlynchable yet again.

I didn't have time to work on this theory properly, with quotes and everything, because of how busy I've been with my test these days (even the test today: 8am start and 2pm finish

had a crash sleep session after that, the whole afternoon), but something tells me FZ. and TH are "connected". That could obviously be good or bad, depending on which alignment one finds them most likely to be. I could be wrong, of course, but something in their earlier conversations and how they related to each other makes me believe this. FZ. has been adamant early that TH should not be ignored and that she finds him helpful (a few others agreed to this, of course, but she inspired this mostly, if I recall correctly). TH never really voted for FZ. until today, did gun for her moderately, was critical of her "insinuative" post, but afterwards started suddenly seeing her "civ game" and, a few flip-flops aside ("oh, but some of her actions or sayings lately still make her look bad") gave the verdict that she is detective.

It could still be an act, of course, but - if my idea is true, since they're both heavily claiming "good" genuineness, I think it's up to everyone to decide if this could actually exonerate FZ. or the opposite.

There's your NK, FZ.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:I'd rather have L tell me something relevant tomorrow following FZ's lynch fail.
My suggestion was relevant information.

Yes, of course it'd be helfpul if L would relay such informations to us. But in case Mata is Misa, he didn't exactly say anything about any transfer out loud today.

I'd rather have L tell me something relevant tomorrow following FZ's lynch fail.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:TH, your "evidence" was built on trying to pin me and Mata as Misa/Rem. I am neither of those roles. You didn't reply to any of my rebuttal back then. You didn't actually address anything from that until I reminded you of certain questions I asked you (the Misa relinquish part). You didn't reply to any of my rebuttal on your first case (me + MM = love) either.

Unrelated to this, if you have only this angle about who Mata could be, you might want to look into a totally different, alignment-wise, but equally significant possibility.
"I'm not baddie teammates with Mata but btw here let me defend mata"
Not defending. I didn't say the other alignment was good.
Different in alignment from Misa?
Yes.
So in that case, different in allignment from a baddie.

Are you saying you think Mata is Higuchi?

I am saying it is clear from her lynch fail combined with L's read on her and message about her that Mata being Higuchi is as strong a possibility as her being any other non-Shinigami, non-detective unlynchable role. I am not excluding any of those possibilities, because nothing is certain for one particular direction. I was just under the impression that TH was working just on the Misa angle, based on his thoughts and his case on me and Mata.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:TH, your "evidence" was built on trying to pin me and Mata as Misa/Rem. I am neither of those roles. You didn't reply to any of my rebuttal back then. You didn't actually address anything from that until I reminded you of certain questions I asked you (the Misa relinquish part). You didn't reply to any of my rebuttal on your first case (me + MM = love) either.

Unrelated to this, if you have only this angle about who Mata could be, you might want to look into a totally different, alignment-wise, but equally significant possibility.
"I'm not baddie teammates with Mata but btw here let me defend mata"
Not defending. I didn't say the other alignment was good.
Different in alignment from Misa?

Yes.

The way it's conceived, Mikami's suicide in the anime is seriously the dumbest thing ever. And that's saying something, consdering I've seen Lost.

DharmaHelper wrote:
Ricochet wrote:TH, your "evidence" was built on trying to pin me and Mata as Misa/Rem. I am neither of those roles. You didn't reply to any of my rebuttal back then. You didn't actually address anything from that until I reminded you of certain questions I asked you (the Misa relinquish part). You didn't reply to any of my rebuttal on your first case (me + MM = love) either.

Unrelated to this, if you have only this angle about who Mata could be, you might want to look into a totally different, alignment-wise, but equally significant possibility.
"I'm not baddie teammates with Mata but btw here let me defend mata"

Not defending. I didn't say the other alignment was good.

TH, your "evidence" was built on trying to pin me and Mata as Misa/Rem. I am neither of those roles. You didn't reply to any of my rebuttal back then. You didn't actually address anything from that until I reminded you of certain questions I asked you (the Misa relinquish part). You didn't reply to any of my rebuttal on your first case (me + MM = love) either.

Unrelated to this, if you have only this angle about who Mata could be, you might want to look into a totally different, alignment-wise, but equally significant possibility.

FZ. wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
FZ. wrote:Why do you think MM wants us to vote for him? Or did he get back his DN and is doing a reverse psychology on us?........ Or did I totally miss his role?
I believe MM is Ryuk. Maybe his secret win condition is that he has to reveal his role as such, which would require lynching him again.

He's also trying not to share any suspicions so that we can't figure out who is and isn't on his team. Voting for himself tells us nothing, which is the way he wants it.
If his win condition requires an extra lynch, would he be that obvious about it? Why would we help him? If it's in fact his win conditions, I'll go with it if he reveals who Light (who he has BTSC with) is.

What the heck is this even? Isn't that outing?

Sorry, juliets, went to bed, my post was intended as a joke. I'm actually genuinely unsure, because I was also pardoned for my first offence, but I think DP missed it twice, so the answer might not actually be 'none'.

I think I know the answer to this question but I'm out of guesses. :P

Well, here goes nothing, then, I'm going to bed anyway.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
The Sockface Death Note Mafia Trivia Game Show
Question 13:
On what Night did Sidoh and Mello gain BTSC?

Night 2.

Shall I call it?

Turnip Head wrote:I think I know the answer to this question but I'm out of guesses

Is that a confession?

I haven't used my second answer in the quiz, but I have no clue.

My guesses would be either after Sidoh finished revealing every role secrets, either once he revealed Mello's secrets (but I can't actually recall what Night that was).

DharmaHelper wrote:I don't really give a shit about the FZ suspicion but you knuckleheads wont move on so, in essence, you're forcing everybody (Or at least those of us who care about other more meaningful suspects) to vote with you. Hopefully the strong arming and vote bullying can end soon and we can get back to the good shit

I also think BR is likely bad and am wary of Bass. Don't really intend to vote early, so I might look into it tomorrow.

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:She says she will survive the lynch.
She says she is a detective that will survive the lynch.
Her not being Light removes her of the suspicion of being five other non-detective roles that survive a lynch (out of which 3 specifically in Team Light) how?
Common sense process of elimination based on who else has survived lynches and which roles I believe they might have.

Go ahead Rico, keep trying to further the suspicions of FZ regardless of what else happens in the game, I know you want to. It's not like you're bad or anything.

I'm not furthering anything, I'm operating on the same personal process of elimination that you say you are. If yours is different from mine (and certainly more rounded up, it appears), then so be it.

You left out the "based on which role I am" part of your process.

That's certainly one role deduction less you have to worry about, compared to the rest of us.

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:OMG.

TH DID NOT VOTE EARLY.

Whoops!

Too late, if you needed to constantly be the first or second voter, you're screwed now.

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:So if FZ is Light and has the Death Note, we'll lynch her, it will fail, she'll pass the DN to Higuchi and we'll know from Namikawa's call that this has happened.

If FZ is lynched and is not Light, Higuchi gets no Death Note and Namikawa's call will not occur and we'll know FZ is an unlynchable detective.

So let's lynch FZ and just get this over with because this is boring.
How will "we" know anything from Namikawa's call? Where does it say that Namikawa's call is made public?
I've already explained how I think Namikawa's call works. Twice.

I missed it both times, then, sorry.

Turnip Head wrote:
Ricochet wrote:Also, if FZ. isn't Light, that automatically makes her an unlynchable detective how?
If she survives the lynch like she says she will, I think this will be quite clear. Feel free to offer a counterpoint that makes sense.

She says she will survive the lynch.
She says she is a detective that will survive the lynch.
Her not being Light removes her of the suspicion of being five other non-detective roles that survive a lynch (out of which 3 specifically in Team Light) how?

OMG.

TH DID NOT VOTE EARLY.

Should not play today at all.
Comes back to play.

Drat.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:And yes, you missed something. The Death Note has to go to Higuchi eventually if the detectives are to achieve their standard win condition. What's alternative are you proposing? Leave Light alone so that Higuchi doesn't get a Death Note?
I'll give you all a little hint. If you lynch Light while he has the Death Note, it goes to Higuchimama. If Light passes the Death Note while you are trying to lynch him, it will be passed to Higuchimama.

So, no matter how you look at it, he will get the Death Note.

I didn't know Light saying "Alright. You caught me." in case he finds himself targeted and just let himself get lynched, at this stage, would be such a likely possibility.

Turnip Head wrote:So if FZ is Light and has the Death Note, we'll lynch her, it will fail, she'll pass the DN to Higuchi and we'll know from Namikawa's call that this has happened.

If FZ is lynched and is not Light, Higuchi gets no Death Note and Namikawa's call will not occur and we'll know FZ is an unlynchable detective.

So let's lynch FZ and just get this over with because this is boring.

How will "we" know anything from Namikawa's call? Where does it say that Namikawa's call is made public?

Also, if FZ. isn't Light, that automatically makes her an unlynchable detective how?

Oh, right, missed it hidden in that bracket.

Turnip Head wrote:Well I firmly believe that Misa's Death Note didn't just evaporate into thin air, and was instead passed to another Kira, so yes I think L would still be made aware that it changed hands.

Idk, maybe. Still a bit confusing to me.

What about L's message? You haven't answered what you think of it.

Also, this was the question.

Ricochet wrote:
2) The premise of flushing out Misa based on her DN relinquish being picked on by L. I would really like to know your opinion of this, because you usually have read the roles and secrets better than me, but here are the facts known

L is made aware any time a Death Note changes hands from one killer to another.

At any time, Light may choose to forfeit ownership of the Death Note. If he does so, Higuchi receives the Death Note. Under certain circumstances, Light may regain the Death Note. After regaining it, he may subsequently pass it on to Mikami at any time, but he cannot regain the Death Note again unless Mikami is killed.

At any time, Misa may forfeit ownership of her Death Note.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Boomslang wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
The Sockface Death Note Mafia Trivia Game Show
Question 8:
Who receives the Death Note if Misa, Higuchi, or Mikami are lynched and currently possess it?
Assuming that I can answer after missing the other question, I'm guessing Light?
Correct.

You may not answer any more questions. A new question is forthcoming.
So my question is this: Since Misa relinquishing her DN before getting lynched or in order to avoid getting lynched has no further revealed consequences in regards to her DN passing on to (or being received by) someone else, do you think L will nevertheless receive info that she has relinquished it?

Turnip Head wrote:Well that can't be the case. If Mello has Sidoh's Death Note and Misa's has ceased to exist, the Kiras have no way to kill, and Higuchi and Light would be unkillable for the remainder of the game. So... That can't be right.

Then it's confusing from what it's revealed so far.

Turnip Head wrote:So I guess we don't know specifically who Misa's Death Note is given to when she relinquishes it? I had been thinking it would go to Higuchi (because that's what happens in the show and it's also what happens when Light relinquishes his in this game) but I suppose it's possible that it could go to Light. The answer isn't in her role description :-/

Linki. I must have missed your question Rico. I'll go back and find it unless you'd like to repeat it.

I'm not sure if it goes to anyone, definitely not Higuchi and Mikami (despite the canon). MP cleared it up that the only way Misa's DN would get to Light is if she is lynched possessing it. Otherwise, Misa's role kida states there is no follow-up to her relinquishing her DN.

I can dig it up if you want.

BTW, TH, what do you make of L's message and what are your thoughts on my question regarding L being aware or not if Misa relinquishes her note?

At all times after Light and Misa gain permanent BTSC, only one Kira may be killing at a time. Thus, if Higuchi or Mikami possess a Death Note, Light and Misa must abstain, even if one of them also has a Death Note.

So no DN swap report, but wait a few days on lynching her again? Think the message is pretty clear.

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