The Syndicate

Diiny wrote:You asked me who the SK is and I don't really know. I'm not sold on you, Rico, but knowing how an SK operates and seeing that I still don't really have a good idea of what Russ has done this game or what he stands for I'd probably put him over you. There's some stuff about your game that is SKy, but not others. I'll be able to answer this properly after my case of Russ and yourself.

Then who is mafia and who is Blind?

the fark am I doing

EBWOP

Diiny wrote:Thanks for telling me about a scenario we're not in and is completely irrelevant. There's two people left who, in your head with your logic, are bad. And you don't know who. And it's not me. So bake those goddamn reads and actually start reading my posts.

Uhm, yes, we're not in that scenario anymore. Thank goodness for that.

In my head with my logic, there are two people left who are both bad in their own way.

So... Would you rather be read mafia, instead of SK?

[img]Thanks%20for%20telling%20me%20about%20a%20scenario%20we're%20not%20in%20and%20is%20completely%20irrelevant.%20There's%20two%20people%20left%20who,%20in%20your%20head%20with%20your%20logic,%20are%20bad.%20And%20you%20don't%20know%20who.%20And%20it's%20not%20me.%20So%20bake%20those%20goddamn%20reads%20and%20actually%20start%20reading%20my%20posts.[/img]

Uhm, yes, we're not in that scenario anymore. Thank goodness for that.

In my head with my logic, there are two people left who are both bad in their own way.

So... Would you rather be read mafia, instead of SK?

As for the SK stuff, hmm... a warning sign or a taunt from the killah himself?

Anyway, as I've said, if PK can get out of lynches somehow, he's overpowered and I'm resigning myself to losing. I doubt MP would do something like this, despite his penchant for tricksy secrets.

linki: I'd say so.

Diiny wrote:MM as And She Was sounds plausible, but that'd mean that he wasn't on drugs at that point or that he and motel room were. Which, again, is plausible to me.

I'm just very scared the SK's SECRETS can effect the tally somehow. Do we have any unsolved night shenanigan mysteries? If so I'll actually give that fear some though. If not it'll just spin in my mind like a rotisserie chicken.

If he would have been targeted with drugs, he had some odds to evade that.

If motel was drugged and MM is who he is, it wouldn't have changed the outcome.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Rico, MM, and I have combined for 3,035 posts in this game as of right now.

If we can finish this win together that'd be such a great feeling. I really hope you guys are on my side, because I'm starting to #believe

Well, the only downside would be that Marsh would get an incredible 8th win this year (with my help, yet again) and Golden a 7th, otherwise yeah, if you're not Satan and we stick together, we have a shot.

EBWOP: to be confident in*

Anyway, regarding the "very specific role" seaside might have seen, it's fair to say both Diiny and JJJ can be read as such, without conflicts, considering the vote tallies. For JJJ, there's a very risky D2 to be considered (unless Pulled Up also compensated by having voted LC - although that only means he could have been b24... brb lemme check the tallies from this perspective...), otherwise no conflicts. Me asking JJJ the questions I did during N12 was to help differentiate and unless he totally caught on and fabricated the answers, I still maintain I got good vibes and still do about him (the constant rallies to always have a clear top wagon instead of close calls, for instance...).

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:And because I like voting early, JaggedJimmyJay.

You put Diiny bottom read and lynch priority. What's the hold up?

I told ya townies to stop fighting and focus on baddies.

Rico, it's not that simple. If you, Jay, and I are definitely civilians, then there's no question that Russti and Diiny are the last two baddies, and we have an easy lynch ahead of us.

You have to be considered in the mix whether you like it or not.

That's fine, but you'd only fuel the remaining two baddies to contest me or try to wiggle their way out.

Judge me by my tone, if nothing else. When I was confident before, I provided results. When I didn't have anything to be confident all, I was "objectively horrific".

Hear my voice, hear my voice, it's the truth.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
I think this could be the civilians' last chance at a successful lynch, so all the cards on the table are fine with me.

Very well.

I think MM is And She Was.

If he is, I've calculated that he had four Lynch phases without receiving a vote, so he started D12 with -4. Meaning the actual tally was MM = 1, motel = 2, and that's why motel got lynched.

For some reason I thought that role could gain negative votes and positive votes.

Noted.

Nay, only negative cumulative votes.

Pretty sure it means he got lucky with the kills, too, at least once or twice.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:And because I like voting early, JaggedJimmyJay.

You're going to understand why I pushed against you suddenly on Day 11 soon enough. If that has you perturbed, I urge you to take a step back and reconsider everything I did in that sequence.

Funnily enough, it has nothing to do with that. :P

I need a little time to think though. I just recalled the instance of seaside going after you, Diiny, and espers from early on, probably from his role power. There might be something there to clear one of you and Diiny as civilian, and even a very specific civilian role.

Please consider my behavior at almost every EOD and perhaps my most consistent plea/call-to-alert.

I keep failing to understand why seaside would suspect JJJ or Diiny if he'd have seen vote manipulation attributable to "very specific civilian role".

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
I think this could be the civilians' last chance at a successful lynch, so all the cards on the table are fine with me.

Very well.

I think MM is And She Was.

If he is, I've calculated that he had four Lynch phases without receiving a vote, so he started D12 with -4. Meaning the actual tally was MM = 1, motel = 2, and that's why motel got lynched.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:And because I like voting early, JaggedJimmyJay.

You put Diiny bottom read and lynch priority. What's the hold up?

I told ya townies to stop fighting and focus on baddies.

I'll dial down the posting for now and put on a movie. MM, JJJ, join me or talk me through choosing between Diiny and Russ, for toDay.

At this point, except for JJJ, the only heeb-jeeb I'm could get is recalling a wild theory on recruiting and the fact that MP, when asked, said "Recruits will be revealed when flipping" not "would be revealed when flipping, if they even exist".

It's a little Mattishly, coming from me, but it's the only thing I can imagine turning the tables.

MM, I think, also suggested Psycho Killer having secrets to aid him in case of being lynched, but honestly, if a serial killer who progressively increases his kill also gets lynch survival odds, this game is just broken. I can imagine him being NK immune, perhaps, but not lynch proof.

Also, to conclude the paranoia chapter for now, if you by any chance tricked me into losing this game, I will not speak to you again for the subsequent two games we play together (including the interval until that happens, which considering I'm going on a break, will be quite significant), no matter how much it affects my gameplay and my status in said games (i.e. people suspecting or lynching me for giving you the silent treatment or finding it unnatural).

You heard it here first, folks.

What do you think about Diiny's theory on you and Wilgy?

...although now that I recall it, he phrased a theory in which losing one would compromise the other, in some way, and that doesn't seem to have happened, regarding you.

It rather makes me believe instead that Diiny wanted to test it out.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:(if you really insist, I received clearence to talk in more detail)

I could use a little of this juicy goss though. If you can help me to exonerate MM then I agree the suspect pool becomes exactly the size it must be for town to win. Try to share what you can without infringing upon your own desire for secrecy too much.

Maybe even give me a Top Secret Code to crack.

Naw, I checked the sentences I would post with the judges and they're good to go. It doesn't have to do with secrecy, either, because it stems from the game (lynch results, role interpretation), in this case.

I'd just like to ask MM first if he's ok with this.

Good. Let's keep that culture going and lynch da baddies. We still need all the town votes to go in one direction, considering Blind's vote may misfire. In fact, I wouldn't mind if the opposite baddie would be a good lad and join us.

My is more justified than yours, because I have attempted to put you for good in town camp based on certain N12 questions towards you and I got good signals from it - unless you tricked me by fabricating the answers to give me the good vibes. Which I guess I'll only find out if either Diiny or Russ flip good and the civ cause goes down in flames.

It's not the same as you having heebie jeebies on nothing concrete, as far as I can tell, except "what if Rico is Satan".

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm still scared of you Rico. I threw poop at you in the night phase to dissuade you being night killed, but now that you've not been night killed I'm just scared that you're an evil overlord.

Yeah someone tried to kill someone I know. BUT I'M SCARED.

If you threw poop to have my not killed, why are you scared of me not having been killed? "I'm scared of what...I achieved"?

linki: If all goes according to plan and you didn't bullsuit me, then no, you will not hate me at all post-game.

Anyway, Blind is alive, the SK is alive, a mafioso is still alive, I'm solid good and I think MM is civilian (if you really insist, I received clearence to talk in more detail). So you do the math. Unless I have been tricked by JJJ, you have my names and I don't see any way around it.

Hosts: is double targetting under effect regarding kill targets on consecutive Nights.

Just asking, because it's getting a bit tight for the SK to fail repeatedly.

Well, shenanigans aside (such as JJJ being bad ), with Wilgy's death and there being no confirmation of any baddie faction being terminated, I think we need to lynch Diiny and Russ and wrap it up.

Also I seriouslly demand a refund for a game in which the serial killer gets to progressively double his killing rate. He's not at 2 kill attempts nightly, goddammit!

Diiny

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: if that's what I think it is.

Maybe RIP Doc, maybe not. The mafia team has not been eliminated.

What do you think it is?

I'm not wrong about who I think you are, btw, am I? As in you're not bullshiting me or anything?

Well, judging from the Day Host post, I think we're past the 23-hour limit for sending actions, so whatever happens, will happen.

In case I depart: I wish reading Russ wrong wouldn't have bumped my calculations off the certainty rail and that I could have sent you off into D13 with a clear impression of who we have left to lynch; but yeah, as far as I can tell, it leaves us otherwise with, at best for the civ cause, telling a civ and two baddies apart (at worst, they're all bad and we require magic to beat them all). And the telling apart will be quite problematic, at least by my appreciation.

I'll pull from my reads the essential points, that may relate or not to baddie behaviour (though mostly mafia teammate one, because I have no SK profiling done). Recap this, use it for your own re-reads, or come up with new angles or interpretations.

Diiny

D1 and D2 contains some questioning of LC's case making, but never developed all the way through - "D2 plans to look at LC case, but mentions that he didn't stood out to him". This also sticks out to me, even today - "Would vote Wilgy as his scummiest read, but intends to secure B24 over LC, after he finishes reading LC". He went for Llama. || LC notable interaction is lashing at Mac for waffling on suspecting or defending Diiny.

Misses out on the D6 fun and previous MacBaddie interactions aren't really swinging in any direction on the spectrum. At one point, "fends off MacBaddie's assertion that Diiny isn't responding to his accusations (by saying he'd rather focus on who to vote)", "questions MacBaddie on b24" and "just like MacBaddie, would rather see a coin flip lynch on D5". All his suspects post-lynch were/are civs (Sig, Choutas, seaside, JJJ). MacBaddie had greater suss on Diiny throughout the game - early on, then gone cold (D3 good GTH read), bad again the next two Days - but his D6 shrug conforming to Diiny as counter-wagon (with no other baddies confirmed on that wagon, except if you wish to still have doubts about JJJ) is the most important aspect to consider.

Suss on Floyd was constant.

Bullzeye interactions developed very late in the game. "D11 in reply to JJJ, compares Wilgy's and Bullzeye's lack of answering, siding with suspecting Wilgy (for several other things) over Bullzeye (being suspicious only for his lack of content)", "when questioned by me on the lurker baddie playing a lurk card, starts seeing the signs of this", "critical of Bullzeye, demading that he contribute if he's truly genuine", starts questioning players who waffle on the matter, yet he also decides that he "would prefer Fuzz (for potential backsliding) over Bullzeye, although still seeing Bullzeye as bad" and votes accordingly. Bullzeye hardly addresses anything about Diiny, except for seeing his LC vote as wafflish.

Wilgy

D2 starts with just a few words - " votes LC bad D2, not reading his bea interaction genuine" - then returns with a proper case. Pulls off major post-lynch analysis work, but comes up with civ suspects (Golden, JJJ, seaside, Sorsha). On LC's side, If I were Matt, I would be pinged right now by "congratulated Wilgy on becoming CEO, finds votes for him natural", considering that Wilgy has, indeed, been voted only by civs.

Starts suspecting Mac as early as D4 - "questions Mac D4 on keeping vote on Sorsha", even "asks for a Mac lynch. on D4!". Further moves: "questions Mac on his Sorsha lynching policy, demands clear viewpoints", "questions Mac after Sorsha's mislynch on info results", D6 "inquires Mac's targets the previous Night", votes him, reacts to being called teamie with Mac, more input on baddie theories, then just resorts to emoji reactions when Mac starts spewing him hard. Mac seems to also have been in sync with suspecting Wilgy, in fact starting a bit earlier (D3 GTH bad read).

D6 inquires Floyd on likely ACEO stuff, just like he did Mac, continues to "to mention Floyd in night kill questionings". Reads him bad GTH, but then goes with another option on consecutive Days, until Floyd is lynched.

Nothing on Bullzeye except one lone inquiry on him (towards Matt) D6, reading him good in GTH and the D11 vote moment, with no previous background, with an embrace of Choutas' case on him that he mentioned for the first time and with actually being ambivalent on either Bullzeye or JJJ. Bullzeye never interacted with him apart from one snark and one agreement with Wilgy suspecting b24.

Russ

Day 2 went from "eyeballs LC on waffling to say something about Sorsha" to "feels better about LC given that Syndicateers are vouching for his behaviour" to "voting LC for thinking she's pushing LC's lynch too hard" to voting LC, when he was tied with Llama, because he suspected him more as opposed to Llama. His vote and JJJ's put LC far into the tally, until Golden voted b24 and offered LC the lifeline. LC mostly notably defended Russ to "have time to breath and read before making statements on suspects" and fended off Russ' eyeballing.

Mac suspicions warmed up from "suddenly sees Mac as bad for his Sorsha lynch policy" to D5 "feels better about him after rebuttals, logic reads him as civ despite his flusterings, gut reads him as bad" to "back to sussing him: for SK centered policy, for being criticised and suspected by him; would be completely down with a Mac lynch" to "still reads Mac as scummy, but doubts himself, due to Choutas and JJJ "believing in him" to full case. Mac didn't care about any of this until his D6 case got serious, at which point he started barking at him.

With Bullzeye, the earliest he reacts and responds to Bullzeye's suss on him is D9 - "D9 comments on Bullzeye's vote for him simply being not very sporting and having no idea of any reason behind it". Comments on meta - "comments on Bullzeye turning barksy when bad, based on his [Russ'] experience (but means this without any offending)"; is inspired by a counter-example - "applauds MM's Monty Python find, plans to re-read Bullzeye". Starts suspecting Bullzeye's ways of returning, despite opposite claims ("confused by Bullzeye saying he's leaving, but reappearing"). D10 develops full case, "suspects him more and more after more non-commital ping". Wobbles, though, by "asking, however, Choutas to convince him that Bullzeye is the way to go; votes motel, otherwise" and "hissing more at Choutas suspecting him as Bullzeye's teammate". D11 keeps pressure - "D11 reads Bullzeye overwhelmed, but looking bad mafia-wise, for no valuable content" - and capitalizes - "reads Bullzeye most likely to be bad out of Fuzz and Wilgy", "stamp of approval on Bullzeye lynch".

Bullzeye picked an FZ case to suss Russ (D3), keeps the heat on D4 until Russ wagon becomes unlikely, keeps suspecting him for lynch result possibilities and returns with suss and votes D7 through D9.

DrWilgy wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I thought that my thinking it was a bad idea was implied on the basis of it being a save.

If I agreed with the Sig lynch, then I wouldn't had even declared it as a save, rather I would've just voted.

Seeing that I had my vote on Choutas for a majority of that day and me vocalizing my thoughts on him, until near EOD, my vote makes sense in the fact that it would've been a waste otherwise. At least with my vote on Sig, I was gambling on my belief that Fuzz wasn't a baddie.

You never verbalized that.

You have your vote on Choutas for two hours and 42 minutes, during the late stages of the Day. I don't have an earlier vote from you on Choutas in my spreadsheets.

An hour before voting Sig, you said this:

DrWilgy wrote:Anyone willing to lynch JJJ today? I do not want Fuzz to be lynched at this point, and will save him if needed.

So you DID have an intent to rally people against someone you actually suspected. But then, you went with the save on a player you hardly mentioned, let alone suspected. Sorry, but you willfully contributed to a civ getting lynched, without suspecting said civ, only wanting to save another civ. It is what it is. It would look bad on anyone not saying the magic words "I suspect this player slightly more and also want to save the player he's pitted against", so I'm reading it as looking bad for you. That's my whole point.

You talked and sussed Choutas all day.
You suggested JJJ as counterwagon to Fuzz.
You voted the actual counterwagon instead of Fuzz.

Tell me where the consistency in all of this lies.

I wanted to save fuzz is the constant.

Did my suspicion of JJJ ever fade between the time of Mac's defense, until stating last day phase that I no longer think he's the SK?

Did that need to be verbalized? During vote analysis you have stated that several votes seem out of orbit, or otherwise useless. I thought that it was implied by making a saving vote, I didn't want to make a wasteful one. Why? Because "saving" votes are impactful by nature.

I demand a future game in which everyone simply votes for veto-ing a top wagon and for being impactful and ditch the part where they also have to suspect the player they vote instead, to justify town mentality, and analyse where a game like that will end up.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Night 12 rainbow list - ordered by lynch priority.

Ricochet
Russtifinko
JaggedJimmyJay
DrWilgy
Diiny

Talk to me about Russ. What points at him not being a baddie? I really need the input on this.

Again his consistency. I don't see him as mafia because his participation has gone up as the mafia continued to get NK'd and while Bullzeye's participation has gone down.

I could give a better look at his content, but I was distracted by other things yesterday.

"The mafia continued to get NK'd"?

I said baddie, not just mafia. Do you have any SK read on him, just like you asked me?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Night 12 rainbow list - ordered by lynch priority.

Ricochet
Russtifinko
JaggedJimmyJay
DrWilgy
Diiny

Talk to me about Russ. What points at him not being a baddie? I really need the input on this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Townies, stop fighting. Focus on Diiny, Wilgy, Russ.

Maybe I'll fight you too. If I can't figure out WTF you're trying to tell me, then I don't have to reject the possibility that you're full of crap.

Did you exhaust all the role possibilities?

If you turn on me, we might as well just pack it up and let the SK and mafia fight for the crown.

Townies, stop fighting. Focus on Diiny, Wilgy, Russ.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Another note from Day 5: Marsh had his vote on espers, who finished with 8 visible votes.

Devin finished with 6 visible votes.

Devin died. Chew on that as it pertains to your Marsh read.

I did. It changes nothing. Who MM votes has nothing to do with who MM is. Are you thinking Blind again?

Also, Epig mafia? King busser or what?

Aaand nope, FZ. was not mafia. Trust me on that as well.

Hamburger or Matt, as far as likelihood goes for me. Matt, if what MM pointed out checks out (i.e. Devin being drugged checks out - which mostly, it has to).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd rank the serial killer victims in likelihood to be mafia as follows:

1. RadicalFuzz
2. HamBurgerboy
3. Epignosis
4. FZ
5. Matt
6. Strawhenge
7. Golden

Dude, you said you read everything. Love for Sale is dead since N11.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Note: Bullzeye's only semi-meaningful contribution beyond self-defense over the last few cycles of his lifespan was to consistently toss shade at Russ. It doesn't look like deliberate distancing to me -- it looks like forced b/s to satisfy people's demands for content. Russ was not an uncommon target for shade.

Dunno about shade, but I think Russ was not an uncommon target for being suspected (Epignosis, fingersplints). If Bullzeye throwing darts at Russ coincides, more or less, with those players suspecting Russ, it can be a well-adjusted distancing.

My doubt stems from Bullzeye's general demeanor. If Russ is his team mate and there's only one mafia left, that means Bullzeye spent days doing this:

Screw this game, whatever, I don't care, I'm going to do nothing but connect myself to my last team mate.

Well, MM just pointed that, if Drugs drugged Devin, Bullzeye couldn't have remained with his last teammate until N9 at the earliest. On D10 he refused anymore connecting with anyone. He even voted me not to add anything to the lynch progress.

So Bullzeye locking with Russ dates from way back and has several moments of interest. Read my day-by-day analysis and try to answer or analyse the stuff in pink.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:And I can't really be 95% bad. It's either 100% or 0%. :P

Linki: Well you're suggesting a theory that satisfies your suspicion rather than one that seems probable.

That's not why I'm suggesting it.

I understand why you are suggesting it. And yes, the two theories can eerily match. But I have certainty on which it's not your case, but mine. You just have to trust me on that.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Just realized something. If Drugs did effect the Devin lynch way back when, then HamburgerBoy must be civilian.

Ture.

Dunno why, but I have the hunch Matt was Drugs.

If not, then I guess he's still alive, but then how are we supposed to win anymore?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Note: Bullzeye's only semi-meaningful contribution beyond self-defense over the last few cycles of his lifespan was to consistently toss shade at Russ. It doesn't look like deliberate distancing to me -- it looks like forced b/s to satisfy people's demands for content. Russ was not an uncommon target for shade.

Dunno about shade, but I think Russ was not an uncommon target for being suspected (Epignosis, fingersplints). If Bullzeye throwing darts at Russ coincides, more or less, with those players suspecting Russ, it can be a well-adjusted distancing.

BWT I received semi-clearence, so far, on discussing who I think MM is, but I don't want to feed that info to players like Diiny, whom I suspect.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Just one question:

Why are we so completely certain that this mislynch wasn't caused by Drugs on motel room and Blind on Marsh? I am being asked to trust a player that I felt was 95% bad last phase and also survived a lynch via shenanigans. Help me.

Because the shenanigans have an answer, that can be a very certain one, in MM being a certain role. Which is a civilian role.

Because MM being that certain role was proven to me due to the shenanigans. Why is that lynch result a certain proof for me of MM being that role? Reasons.

Because MM implying he didn't want to be lynched adds to the certainty for me, due to context, which is that he didn't want to face exposure.

I'd also add that I have my doubts Drugs is still alive, hence that anyone was drugged after Night 10. I don't think Strawhenge was bad (implicitly Drugs), so I don't think Drugs drugged and was killed afterwards. However, as opposed to MM's role, I cannot express any certainty regarding any of this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Note: If Epi's 0 post theory is gospel (I do think it's logical), then that can still implicate Wilgy and Diiny. And if Wilgy is a SK candidate then that opens the door for Russ as a mafia candidate -- within the framework of Rico's web.

True, but that's why I said Diiny is likeliest, because of the added D6 dimension. The only explanation to Diiny not making any gesture towards his near lynch - both addressing the process and the action of voting in self-defense - is that he was out of touch for the duration of N5 and D6.

Wilgy was not out of touch. The SK abstinence, on his behalf, can be intentional at best.

The SK abstinence, on Diiny's behalf, can be empirical.

DrWilgy wrote:I thought that my thinking it was a bad idea was implied on the basis of it being a save.

If I agreed with the Sig lynch, then I wouldn't had even declared it as a save, rather I would've just voted.

Seeing that I had my vote on Choutas for a majority of that day and me vocalizing my thoughts on him, until near EOD, my vote makes sense in the fact that it would've been a waste otherwise. At least with my vote on Sig, I was gambling on my belief that Fuzz wasn't a baddie.

You never verbalized that.

You have your vote on Choutas for two hours and 42 minutes, during the late stages of the Day. I don't have an earlier vote from you on Choutas in my spreadsheets.

An hour before voting Sig, you said this:

DrWilgy wrote:Anyone willing to lynch JJJ today? I do not want Fuzz to be lynched at this point, and will save him if needed.

So you DID have an intent to rally people against someone you actually suspected. But then, you went with the save on a player you hardly mentioned, let alone suspected. Sorry, but you willfully contributed to a civ getting lynched, without suspecting said civ, only wanting to save another civ. It is what it is. It would look bad on anyone not saying the magic words "I suspect this player slightly more and also want to save the player he's pitted against", so I'm reading it as looking bad for you. That's my whole point.

You talked and sussed Choutas all day.
You suggested JJJ as counterwagon to Fuzz.
You voted the actual counterwagon instead of Fuzz.

Tell me where the consistency in all of this lies.

Who do you think is SK, Diiny. Mind you, give me a read of any kind, not just a name throw.

And if you'll say me, what qualifies me as such?

I don't recall you clarifying if you had any means or not to, at least, log in to the site whilst you were gone during N5-D6 - and this is not the first time of asking. Why waffle on this issue?

Yes, it sucks that you didn't manage to show up during that time and that it gets you heat for it now, but it is still potential empirical evidence that the time the SK didn't send a kill would be because he was AWOL. Your prolonged inactivity, considering you didn't react one bit to your own freaking near lynch on D6 (to which the only logical explanation is that you had no means to do so), makes you the likeliest candidate.

Yeah, I'm bad at words, because I didn't mean "drifting" as in switching during a phase. I meant they drift (well, most of them) from the core wagons. Yes, I remember your motivation to vote Golden, it doesn't make it any less throwing your vote outside the Milky Way, whilst we were busy here on Earth with the main subjects.

"As SK, why wouldn't I have just picked a side?" How can an SK pick sides as a rogue solitary player?

I want to stress again that, if it weren't, sadly, for Russ not being who I initially thought he was, I would not have any kind of dilemma in reading you and Wilgy bad - meaning one is mafia, one is SK. Not one bit. Meaning baked cases or not, rebuttals or not, words wouldn't have mattered anymore to me, because the two of you would be bad by sheer deduction.

Here's three options in your "I'm not bad" favor:
1. Sell me your civvieness. "I want to kill the mafia" isn't good enough, because on paper you only lynched Floyd and advertised for Wilgy, who, granted, I also suspect of possible being mafia. This doesn't exclude you from a SK profiling.

2. If not for strong activity and such, give me subtle hints, then, so I can try to pick them up and assess them.

3. Here's an admittedly extreme thought: tempt the SK to kill you, if you're not it. That way, with no announcement afterwards that a bad/rogue faction has been eliminated and with only Wilgy and Russ left in the equation, I would personally have no problem returning to my previous, dilemma-free, deductions and we would no doubt win the game. Honest to God here.

EBWOP: a "guys! I don't think Fuzz is bad, I don't really think sig is bad either. Let's lynch [insert player], this is who I think is bad!" would have been a better choice of words*.

DrWilgy wrote:I don't know what more you want than that... Unless you think I should've let the civvier person die. I didn't have any real opinion on Sig, other than that I was soft reading him as civ.

What are you wtfing about?

You shouldn't have let EITHER civs die, at least as an open intention!

There is plenty more language at one's disposal in such situations. I don't recall how much time there was or how much time you still had, but from what you are saying, a "guys! I don't think Fuzz is bad, I don't really think sig is bad either. Let's lynch [insert player], this is who I think is bad!". Civs don't say they'll lynch civs for sake of saving civvier civs. Civs don't tend to say "oh I'll just lynch this guy over this guy, even though neither are really suspects of mine". It doesn't make sense as a primary motivation for a civilian.

Lynching someone you townread to save someone you townread (more) is either a total blunder of communication and intention, if you're town, or a bullsuit sloppy defense, if you're bad.

Diiny wrote:Rico, this is why I think you should read my posts. Look through my PH and tell me I wasn't pushing wilgy hard. I felt good about mm but better about wilgy, wouldn't stop talking to him, and was clear that I was securing mm over motel. What would you have done differently in my situation? Let MM lead by a single vote in a game that will no doubt he remembered not only for poll shenanigans?

Your case on me isn't making sense or I don't understand it. You're calling me suspicious because I was blendy ie don't stand out as suspicious?

I have no actual issues with your Wilgy switch, I was just poking at you giving us the "you should have done dat" pep talk. I don't read you as mafia, so I can't possibly interpret that as wanting to suddenly save Wilgy or anything. I don't know if vote switches are an angle by which to hunt for the SK. It can be, if we're talking a very indecisive indy, but it's not always the case. A good SK can be a consistent one.

At this point, you should probably file the "blendy" remark as a sort of compliment. I'll rephrase it, if you really need it. Diiny, you played a great game alongside the civs, if you are the SK.

Good? Moving on, then.

My case is your N5 missing, near process of elimination of you not fitting a mafia profile and some loose, drifting votes (regardless of how consistent or not they've been pushed) on the statistical radar of the vote tallies.

I really wish JJJ would be around to help me out with the profiling.

Diiny wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Diiny wrote:Can someone do a Diiny SK case so I can respond? Accepting piles of shit to my face atm. I don't want my inactivity to have cost town anything.

I don't have a fully baked case, I admit. Time is short for me, until later this evening, maybe I'll have time to analyse some more, maybe not and I won't live either - so how 'bout you don't kill me?

Without having had a kill power, my experience of being an indy back in a previous game was not having one goddamn clue where my vote would land - it led to my lynch, too. Maybe you're better than that, who knows, but you've only lynched Floyd and most of your other votes (Llama on D2? me on Day 3? that banter vote on Golden Day 4? two Days on Fuzz and Wilgy each, recently) look like trying to grasp at something, but not quite reaching it. If you are SK, your game, otherwise, was laudably blendy and low on pinges, no doubt about that.

Your "please don't turn my inactivity into something that could cost town" is a good defense, but I think we're past that. I don't think there are any other candidates for an SK snoozer on Night 5 left. Epig was pretty logical in bringing this up - an SK would have no interest to miss a kill event, except if maybe he had absolutely no means to NOT miss a kill event. You fit the best in this category.

Bottom line, me discounting you as possible mafia (because of that D6) puts you in the SK corner likelihood. If Russ' wouldn't have completely complicated my calculations, it would have been simple deduction.

Look at more than my votes. Look at what I've said and how I've played the game. We're all had shitty votes, but look at the content of my posts. I've clearly grasped things. They've been wrong (Fuzz, presumably; brian), but you can see my thinking. I've had clear ideas and when I've embraced cases you can see my thought process. Point out anything that looks overly convenient, opportunistic or blendy.

Town doesn't need a mislynch at the mo.

It's not necessarily shitty votes - you only mislynched sig and BWT, after all. It's more an issue of loose votes.

Again, I don't mean to project my own experience onto you. By grasping things, it can certainly be true that you did a better job (than the one I referenced), as an indy.

And yeah, "blendy" has nefarious connotation, but what I meant is that, if you are the SK, you have played a very agreeable game devoid, most of the time, of suspicions and missteps. At least in my book. It's a game blend, nonetheless.

Also, "I told ya to vote Wilgy" and yet to moved to MM yesterDay.

"I voiced my stronger opinion of Fuzz (being civ) via quantity, so I went on the other wagon, that I didn't voice any strong suspicion on."

Com'on Wilgyson.

DrWilgy wrote:Oh... I will go through and quote for reference what I need to when I get off if you want.

I was stating that I think. I called sig civ twice only (if that), compared to at least 3 or 4 times of saying that I sae Fuzz as civvy Fuzzypockle

"My sig vote is civvish, because I townread civ less times than I did Fuzz"