The Syndicate

Sig, why your hesitation to see Wilgy as bad?

DrWilgy wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:If it makes you feel better bout me, IAWY voted me on several occasions. Wasn't paying too much attention to how long it lasted though.

Surprised that we haven't lynched Ji-San yet.
I'm not sure how that makes me feel about you.

It might make me feel better about you if you please explain your reads. Why is Soneji worth lynching?
RED check

As already pointed out, every one of us knows that ALL worlds with town alignment checks is gone.

You aren't going to convince anyone with the idea you have had a red check.

As if it wasn't sufficient enough that you call me out as your top suspect from day one, but apparently have never stopped seeing me as bad, which is also enough for me to know you are definitely NOT a doctor cop.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Conclusion

I find a2thezebra's behavior with respect to Inawordyes firmly teammate compatible and, furthermore, potentially teammate indicative.

What do you think?

I agree. It's a great analysis.

Ps Wilgy has suspected me and mp all game without even attempting to justify it. So why is it a problem from me but not from him?

Wilgy is where my vote will be going today, unless I have to use it to save someone. Your consistent assertions he is not bad have no more basis than my assertions he is good, unless you are scum and you know it for a fact.

a2thezebra wrote:You have no justified reason to suspect DrWilgy.

You have no justified reason to know that for sure,

a2thezebra wrote:You said more than once that I was claiming ika confessed to NK'ing Silver, and that's not true. This is one of many examples of you misrepresenting me.

I've never said that at all. I agree with you completely on that point.

a2thezebra wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
sig wrote:@Zebra do you think the night kill was by the vig or by the mafia
You did it.
Didn't you say this about ika before? I'd have to look again, but I'm being lazy and want to engage you.
No. You thought I did because you were blinded by Golden's misrepresentation and took his word for what I said instead of just reading my posts, which is why I noted that you could be Golden's teammate if Golden is bad. I asked ika if he was framed for the NK, I didn't accuse him of actually doing it except to pressure him.

What did I apparently misrepresent now? Certainly nothing to do with your relationship to ika.

Wilgy is not town.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Golden wrote:I think sig, MP, soneji and I are town

Two more of you are town, out of MM, zebra, wilgy, scotty and ika. MM is the one I think is most likely to be town in that set, which leaves 3/4 of zebra, wilgy, scotty and ika.

No, this is not me hinting at being a cop with peeks.
This is essentially a rainbow list, but can you rainbowify this for me? Or at least tell me how you currently rank those non-town reads and why?

Mm still slight town
Scotty and ika slight mafia
Zebra moderate mafia
Wilgy strong mafia

Sorry, I'll only be in sporadically in this day phase, unfortunately. I'll contribute as much as I can.

I do really feel as though my instincts that MP, soneji and sig are all town are good, though. I think we need to hang together.

I have a gut feeling we are in set up F.

C and 1 both have a mafia role cop, yet if I were mafia role cop I'd have checked Marco long before last night and I'd be hunting to take out power roles. I feel like a mafia role cop is tending towards unlikely at this point.

I guess 4 is still possible but it requires town vig to have hit 1-shot mafia bulletproof last night, and also the 1 shot mafia vig to have not been shot or to have been jailkept by the 2-shot jailkeeper... the circumstances seem more unlikely to me than C or 1.

So, as of right now, I'd suggest as far as likelihood goes:

F > C + 1 > 4.

Soneji wrote:I am voting for Golden in main part due to his part in the Frog lynch and the way he interacted with Marco yesterday, treating him as if he knew he was town and not a possible scumbuddy for the potentially scum Sloonei/Matt he was defending. I intend to ISO him later today when I am done with work.

Scotty's entrance pinged me rather hard. It shouldn't matter to a townie replacement how their predecessor looked, they have no way of arguing from that persons perspective anyways to defend their posts. Best they can do is aim to engage with the game as best they can. A replacement will be judged in part by their predeccor but thats just something they have to live with. That he wants to know whose the most trusted townie comes off as wanting to know who to sheep.

Oh, I see it now, and you mean Marco.

Well, similarly, I was reading Marco as town. So same logic applies.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Soneji wrote:I would feel that it is quite likely that they might be scum. Both have pinged me to some extent already. Golden earlier seemed to be speaking to you in a way that seems as if he knows you're town, not putting enough into thinking that you might be mafia for your defense of Sloonei. I can only remember one post where it was slightly implied.
Soneji, can you point to this instance(s)? Thanks.

I don't know where soneji said that, but I am reading MP on his own merits and not in relation to other people. It doesn't bother me when someone I read as town defends someone I read as scum. I don't immediately assume a team.

I will certainly be opposing a sig vote. I don't like the names on his lynch chain as it stands. Ika, scotty, zebra...

And Wilgy and zebra both put down the hammer. And zebra has defended Wilgy on meta reasons.

Like, these two, to me... I just can't ignore them. I'd really like to nail one today and, if they are scum, take the other with town vig.

a2thezebra wrote:I won't be around at EoD again. Good luck everyone, and please don't lynch IAWY or DrWilgy.

And then there is this from EoD2.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:I really want Marco and Polo to play games together.
I'm assuming Polo is a Syndicate regular?

DrWilgy wrote:Nah bruh, U

VOTE MATT
If Sloonei flips town, Wilgy is probably scum. This seems like a very opportunistic vote, especially in light of how "offhand" Wilgy is about the game.
Obviously WIFOM, but this is something to note now that Marco is dead.

Yeah, I mean, jst look at those hammer votes. Wilgy had been claiming I was bad and MP was bad all along, but suddenly he is following us into a vote?

It's like Vomps levels of 'fuck u' in how much he is being obvi-scum. He could basically have scum claimed by now. It's great wifom, but really...

MovingPictures07 wrote:
sig wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Golden wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:On that note though, let's talk about Psi. What are we going to do if he doesn't get replaced or start posting more? Clearly the mafia and the second killer haven't killed him yet... and it's unclear whether they ever will. I doubt the mafia would have high incentive to do so if he's civilian, and zero incentive if he's mafia (lol).
I don't see much difference between Psi and Wilgy, honestly. I was doing the numbers to try and figure out how sure we can be that one of last night kills was town vig, and I think its probably quite likely. In which case, I really do encourage the town vig to take out psi or wilgy next time. Even if you suspect someone like dizzy or zexy, at least we can evaluate that in the thread.

@MP - interesting you should ask about soneji. For the first time, I feel like I have a vague read on soneji, and it's slight town. I have to say, though, I never was part of Turf Wars long enough to get any clear view of how soneji was playing as scum. Your thoughts?
Sadly, you're probably right; Wilgy is providing pretty much nothing. Yeah, I'm not sure why a town vig would have killed Dizzy... maybe Zexy, but Psi or Wilgy have provided less, so either one is a weird choice IMO.

I've thought he's town since he first entered the game, even if I'm far from convinced of it. Dizzy seemed to really suspect him though, and as the game has progressed, I don't feel I've progressed my read of Soneji at all since that initial ISO.
Why Dizzy more so then Zexy any reason.
You misunderstood; I was saying the opposite of that. I had Dizzy as my top town read before his death, so I was saying I could see a town vig killing Zexy before I could see them killing Dizzy, but that's just my opinion.

I don't understand why a town vig killed either of them.

It narrows the list of who could be the town vig substantially. I mean, not me, for example.

I think sig, MP, soneji and I are town

Two more of you are town, out of MM, zebra, wilgy, scotty and ika. MM is the one I think is most likely to be town in that set, which leaves 3/4 of zebra, wilgy, scotty and ika.

No, this is not me hinting at being a cop with peeks.

I don't think sig is bad and I probably won't be voting that way today.

@Soneji - indeed. I really do think Wilgy is bad. If we don't lynch him, and we have an even night town vig, he really needs to go.

@sig - I just read that as zebra expressing the certainty of her own view. Any comments zebra?

sig wrote:Zebra is making no sense and now out of nowhere suspecting me since I said she could be mafia? I also dislike what I see her hinting at since it is impossibly. I think we just saw a TMI scum chat slip from her.

@Ika read over my responses to your case on my slip, then tell me you still think it is the case espacilly considering the fact I'm most likely right about the world we are in.

What do you think zebra is hinting at?

Well, if nothing else, I learned a valuable lesson yesterday..

Pay attention to the hammer rule. I went to sleep. I woke up and sloonei was gone. I hadn't even considered that, I was just going to use the time I had yesterday to test some other people and figure out where I wanted my vote to end.

It might have ended up on Sloonei anyway, but I don't like that it became so easy. I'd have probably unvoted while I was asleep if I'd thought that through. Valuable experience.

VOTE DRWILGY

Right now I think Wigly and zebra might be two of the three remaining. My read on zebra has shifted. I didn't like her push on day 2 against IAWY votes, its what prompted me to shift my vote to IAWY to make it 4 vs 2.

RIP Marco. Sorry to see you go.

ika wrote:
sig wrote:Oh and I'd like to see more from Ika and the low posters.
ok

VOTE SIG

Oh, ika, you have me in tears. That was really funny

sig wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
sig wrote:I'm happy with the votes right now would like to see more people post about stuff and vote.
Well, why don't you contribute something?
Honey I've been contributing all game. :P

Preach it sister!

MovingPictures07 wrote:On that note though, let's talk about Psi. What are we going to do if he doesn't get replaced or start posting more? Clearly the mafia and the second killer haven't killed him yet... and it's unclear whether they ever will. I doubt the mafia would have high incentive to do so if he's civilian, and zero incentive if he's mafia (lol).

I don't see much difference between Psi and Wilgy, honestly. I was doing the numbers to try and figure out how sure we can be that one of last night kills was town vig, and I think its probably quite likely. In which case, I really do encourage the town vig to take out psi or wilgy next time. Even if you suspect someone like dizzy or zexy, at least we can evaluate that in the thread.

@MP - interesting you should ask about soneji. For the first time, I feel like I have a vague read on soneji, and it's slight town. I have to say, though, I never was part of Turf Wars long enough to get any clear view of how soneji was playing as scum. Your thoughts?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Go study!

I really want Marco and Polo to play games together.

Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:
Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:
Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:
Marco wrote:@mm, that makes sense to me. He felt like frog and IAWY were scummy. Frog was his prime candidate but he decided frog had more value than IAWY.

I'm not sure why you don't understand how frog had more value. I've never played with either of them before but just going by post count, activity, and contribution, town!Frog had a lot more value than town!IAWY.
I've never seen sloonei shift a vote on the basis of 'value'.

Besides, frog wasn't demonstrating 'value', he was just demonstrating 'volume', which are two different things. I might understand it if it was someone like Jay, or frankly even if it was you - but anyone who genuinely suspected Frog could see that he had stopped adding value about 12 hours into the game.
You have a narrow minded view of value. Disregarding the actual content of his posts, we all knew he would be one of the most active players in the game. Just by virtue of that you can be sure you'll get more interactions with him alive.

Also, frog had already stated his reason multiple times for not contributing in the latter part of day 1. While I disagree for his reason, he has already told us he would be back to his early game activity by day 2.
OK, sure, but I think you are being fooled by the fact that the concept of keeping someone alive by value works and makes sense in your community, but it is bizarre here. I've literally never seen sloonei do something like that.

I'm just saying - for me, it looked like a massive cred grab that he couldn't lose either way. Why not burn a vanilla teammate who isn't even participating much for a cred grab?
Because then you need to kill an extra townie to win. Usually means that town gets an extra lynch.
I will admit, the tactic would be more likely from me if I knew I would be able to fully participate. One reason to think about the extra lynch not being worth it, from sloonei's perspective, might be that he himself wouldn't have time to capitilise on any cred he got and make sure the extra lynch wasn't wasted.
Can you clarify what you mean here. I couldn't quite understand it.

I have no fear of an extra town lynch if I think I can exert significant influence on the outcome of the lynches, when scum. If I can't (eg, because I don't have time to really play and need to sub out), the tactic would become less likely from me.

I'm just trying to apply how I would think, in the shoes of a scum sloonei.

Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:
Marco wrote:However, that's not worth losing 1 out of 4 members and handing town an extra lynch.
I think this is where MP's point about culture comes in. We come from a culture of unchangeable votes and no info-dumping, the first of which means its harder to hide in votes with basic tactics and the second of which lessens the impact of a single lynch. Giving the town an extra lynch and losing a member of the team who, at the time of EoD 1, appeared more or less inactive (IAWY really stepped up in day 2, and don't forget they had no communication on day 1) would seem worth it to me.

Yeah, I'm starting to understand it. I still believe it's not a smart move on a scum's part in this setup but I can understand how Sloonei might think otherwise on account of not being used to the mechanics and rules.

In RYM 87, a game in which I played and I believe sloonei did too (site shut so I can't check), one of the site members outright bussed their teammate in the thread on day 1 and it was enough for him to be considered the most trustworthy in lylo.

I think you are thinking of bussing in terms of value and so am I, so we are definitely on the same page there, I just think we have overall a different perspective on the value of the move.
The way I see it, there are two levels of bussing. One is via engaging and the other is via voting. Both have there own pros and cons and you will have to do both smartly for the best bus. But in my experience, if you think someone is bussing via vote but not engagement, then it's probably sincere and not a bus. Exceptions are there, obviously, but this is the general pattern.

The great part about bussing is that you can build associations with different townies, creating "camps", so that when one of you dies, townies are implicated that your partner can pounce on.

I'm talking about this because if Sloonei actually bussed IAWY, he should've done much more engagement. And I don't mean Sloonei, specifically, but any scum in his position. As in that's the optimum way to do it. The fact that you guys suspect Sloonei because he hardly had any meaningful interaction with IAWY is a demonstration of this fact.

So my questions is, "Is Sloonei inexperienced enough to commit to such a lackluster bus?"

Yeah, I agree with all of this - it's quite a compelling argument for why sloonei isn't scum.

But, I don't think it's inexperienced to commit a lackluster bus. I think it's the opposite. The moment patterns become so clear as to what a bus should look like, thats when changing it up becomes effective.

My own bus style is this... whatever people currently thinks looks like a bus... don't do it. Change how you bus. For me, there is always value in a bus if it gives you cred for the rest of the game, and you have to play it in the way that gives you the most cred, which is by definition the way which looks least like how you'd expect a bus to look.

Sloonei is very experienced. He also has way more experience than the average person at this site of this kind of setup (maybe not matrix, but open, role-claiming, town working together etc).

very interesting all up. I can see both sides of this coin.

On a completely different note, could you explain to me in very short terms what you feel the case on MM is? Even though I have had suspicion on him in the past, I feel like the current suspicion isn't along any of the same lines as what mine was and I don't follow it.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Marco wrote:What's your response to sig's last post? By pressuring you, I am hoping for VCA fypov to explain your vote switch day 1.
What's VCA?

We would call it voting analysis.

Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:
Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:
Marco wrote:@mm, that makes sense to me. He felt like frog and IAWY were scummy. Frog was his prime candidate but he decided frog had more value than IAWY.

I'm not sure why you don't understand how frog had more value. I've never played with either of them before but just going by post count, activity, and contribution, town!Frog had a lot more value than town!IAWY.
I've never seen sloonei shift a vote on the basis of 'value'.

Besides, frog wasn't demonstrating 'value', he was just demonstrating 'volume', which are two different things. I might understand it if it was someone like Jay, or frankly even if it was you - but anyone who genuinely suspected Frog could see that he had stopped adding value about 12 hours into the game.
You have a narrow minded view of value. Disregarding the actual content of his posts, we all knew he would be one of the most active players in the game. Just by virtue of that you can be sure you'll get more interactions with him alive.

Also, frog had already stated his reason multiple times for not contributing in the latter part of day 1. While I disagree for his reason, he has already told us he would be back to his early game activity by day 2.
OK, sure, but I think you are being fooled by the fact that the concept of keeping someone alive by value works and makes sense in your community, but it is bizarre here. I've literally never seen sloonei do something like that.

I'm just saying - for me, it looked like a massive cred grab that he couldn't lose either way. Why not burn a vanilla teammate who isn't even participating much for a cred grab?
Because then you need to kill an extra townie to win. Usually means that town gets an extra lynch.

I will admit, the tactic would be more likely from me if I knew I would be able to fully participate. One reason to think about the extra lynch not being worth it, from sloonei's perspective, might be that he himself wouldn't have time to capitilise on any cred he got and make sure the extra lynch wasn't wasted.

Marco wrote:However, that's not worth losing 1 out of 4 members and handing town an extra lynch.

I think this is where MP's point about culture comes in. We come from a culture of unchangeable votes and no info-dumping, the first of which means its harder to hide in votes with basic tactics and the second of which lessens the impact of a single lynch. Giving the town an extra lynch and losing a member of the team who, at the time of EoD 1, appeared more or less inactive (IAWY really stepped up in day 2, and don't forget they had no communication on day 1) would seem worth it to me.

In RYM 87, a game in which I played and I believe sloonei did too (site shut so I can't check), one of the site members outright bussed their teammate in the thread on day 1 and it was enough for him to be considered the most trustworthy in lylo.

I think you are thinking of bussing in terms of value and so am I, so we are definitely on the same page there, I just think we have overall a different perspective on the value of the move.

Marco wrote:From the actual votes, one can make an argument that Sloonei switched from frog to IAWY to distance himself from IAWY for the future. But at that time, during EOD, with minutes to go, people were using the polls to keep track of the votes. I don't think Sloonei would've known his vote would not do anything. Especially, since he has no reason to believe someone else wouldn't vote IAWY suddenly.

The point is, it doesn't matter if the vote actually leads to the lynch. Either frog flips town or IAWY flips bad. Either way, sloonei's vote switch looks inspired. This is the point. If he has perfect knowledge, he knows he wins both ways.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Matt wrote:Golden, if you are a baddie, you're doing a terrific job.

If you're civ, then obviously this Mafia scrimmage is being wasted on you. Tsk tsk.
??????

Matt is saying he is town. Nothing more.

I can be persuaded, though, Marco... I'm not saying I'm set on it.

Just that I don't think you should put so much emphasis on how good that vote looks. Maybe I don't like it enough, but I think you like it too much.

Marco wrote:
Golden wrote:
Marco wrote:@mm, that makes sense to me. He felt like frog and IAWY were scummy. Frog was his prime candidate but he decided frog had more value than IAWY.

I'm not sure why you don't understand how frog had more value. I've never played with either of them before but just going by post count, activity, and contribution, town!Frog had a lot more value than town!IAWY.
I've never seen sloonei shift a vote on the basis of 'value'.

Besides, frog wasn't demonstrating 'value', he was just demonstrating 'volume', which are two different things. I might understand it if it was someone like Jay, or frankly even if it was you - but anyone who genuinely suspected Frog could see that he had stopped adding value about 12 hours into the game.
You have a narrow minded view of value. Disregarding the actual content of his posts, we all knew he would be one of the most active players in the game. Just by virtue of that you can be sure you'll get more interactions with him alive.

Also, frog had already stated his reason multiple times for not contributing in the latter part of day 1. While I disagree for his reason, he has already told us he would be back to his early game activity by day 2.

OK, sure, but I think you are being fooled by the fact that the concept of keeping someone alive by value works and makes sense in your community, but it is bizarre here. I've literally never seen sloonei do something like that.

I'm just saying - for me, it looked like a massive cred grab that he couldn't lose either way. Why not burn a vanilla teammate who isn't even participating much for a cred grab?

Marco wrote:@golden, I know a bus like that would make one look good. But it seems unnecessary.

Your basically saying that as scum who has his vote on his teammate's counter wagon, you would lynch your own teammate at the last minute for town cred?

I can understand a fresh vote but he had already placed his vote and given his reason.

You are basically town clearing him on it. This is the definition of necessary.

IAWY appeared absent, a good mark.

Yes - this is the kind of cutthroat thing I would absolutely do, and I think sloonei would as well. It's also why I say mechanical statements like Frog's for finding scum are easy to beat.

Doesn't that vote from sloonei look like perfect knowledge to you? Frog was his top town suspect, but suddenly with little time to give anyone to react he is talking of Frog's value? That makes no sense to me. If someone is your top scum suspect, you don't keep them around because they might 'add value' if you are wrong. If he had expressed an equal scum read on each of them, I can understand picking for value. But he hadn't. IAWY was a 'fresh vote' for sloonei in the sense that I have no recollection of him ever looking in that direction (I'd need to check that up)... I know thats not what you meant fresh vote to mean.

I just really don't buy that vote. I didn't from the start. Town sloonei might jump around, but I've not seen him suddenly get cold feet on a wagon and shift to one he wasn't talking about last second.

Btw... this is the sucky thing about a locked thread... you can't react in the moment.

Great lynch everyone!

Marco wrote:@mm, that makes sense to me. He felt like frog and IAWY were scummy. Frog was his prime candidate but he decided frog had more value than IAWY.

I'm not sure why you don't understand how frog had more value. I've never played with either of them before but just going by post count, activity, and contribution, town!Frog had a lot more value than town!IAWY.

I've never seen sloonei shift a vote on the basis of 'value'.

Besides, frog wasn't demonstrating 'value', he was just demonstrating 'volume', which are two different things. I might understand it if it was someone like Jay, or frankly even if it was you - but anyone who genuinely suspected Frog could see that he had stopped adding value about 12 hours into the game.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:QUESTION FOR JAY: - At the end of Day 1, ika posted in the thread but did not move his vote in the poll. Which vote counts? Also DrWilgy and Frog moved their votes in the poll, but did not post those changes. Did those votes count?

In hindsight, this actually makes ika's vote look worse than slooneis.

Then go study!

I can see a world in which you guys are right about MM too.

Marco wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Marco wrote:@MM, He is your top suspect knowing that he switched off Frog to IAWY Day 1 lynch?
He is one of my top suspects, and that is without looking back over previous events with the knowledge that IAWY is scum.

I do know he made that vote switch, but I don't remember there being any context behind it. I'll look into it.
His reason for changing the vote was that Frog had value to the game alive (he scum-read Frog but he admitted he hadn't read anything past the first dozen pages). Regardless, why would scum vote for their own partner in such a scenario?

Boy, I'm just going to say. If I was scum, my go to move would snow you completely. Thats EXACTLY when you should bus someone. When it gets the most cred.

Marco wrote:And I have to bring this up.

Marco wrote:If IAWY flips scum, wouldn't look good for Golden.
I'm forgetting what exactly led me to say that, it was something to do with the exact vote switch pattern. I'll try to go back and create a vote timeline to see if there was actually some merit in what I said.

There wasn't. You had missed the fact I'd created the vote train on IAWY in the first place, and that I was always entirely comfortable with either IAWY or Frog going.

Marco wrote:Okay, first up, why are you voting Matt?

Sloonei dropped his vote off of Frog which resulted in Frog and IAWY tied at Day 1 end. Bussing is one thing but this makes absolutely no sense. He had been stating Frog as his scum-read throughout. Why jump off and jeopardise your own teammate (IAWY)?

For cred. From the moment sloonei did that, I thought it made him look good either way. It's what I was saying right back at the start of yesterday.

Just look at your own reaction.... you can't see sloonei as bad for it. This is exactly what makes it a great move. Even more so given IAWY sort of seemed absent and even more so if IAWY was already being bussed by another teammate...

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I also won't be around much until this evening, but I wanted to see the results.

Ninja'd ya MP.

Just a note. There are 6 people dead and only 1 of them was a Syndicate regular. Someone's got it out for the new people.

I'm calling silver a regular now. I think she is.

Well darn. That wasn't great. I trusted Dizzy and Zexy.

I wrote down a list (unfortunately I left it at work) of where I felt IAWY's flip left everyone. It definitely leaves me with sloonei/matt and ika both seeming worse for it. Zebra looks worse too, and I actually thought Dizzy looked a little worse.

VOTE MATT

I think Wilgy is scum.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Golden wrote:The VT claim did feel genuine, but I feel committed.
I'm feeling more scared myself.

I'll give you both.

The VT claim did feel genuine, but I feel committed.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Zexy wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Zexy, I say if Psi doesn't show up halfway through this period or later that you go ahead and provide the answers to my questions for him on page 22. I'd prefer for him to answer, but he hasn't posted in quite some time.
You sure it is 22? Went back and read it, nothing.
Seriously? Crap. I think I only said 22 because that's what you said, so I'm not sure. Lol.

Well, this is a catch...

No, I can't do it.

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