The Syndicate

Hey, IAWY

Assuming you are lynched, and no matter what your alignment.

Your positive outlook on the game is fun. I hope you stick around here

VOTE INAWORDYES

PS, if IAWY scum, I think we are in a world with a town cop. That comment he made still majorly pings me. Like he was pre-emptively thinking through a defence against a red peek.

Marco wrote:

Golden wrote:

Marco wrote:Regardless, why not just answer the question? You might convince me to vote for him.

I mean, I think your point that we don't get a lot from Wilgy if he flips town is completely fair and true. I can't think of anything. I just don't know that we get a lot from IAWY flipping town either.

I just don't know that we will get much from ANY town flips until we have at least one scum flip.

I wasn't really trying to convince you to vote Wilgy - I'm very comfortable knowing you are on the IAWY train.

First, IAWY gives more info just going by numbers. Then you have the larger number of people with reads on IAWY. Then you have the tie from yesterday to look at. And the semi CFD. Is it just me who thinks IAWY unquestionably has more info attached to him?

Though you're right about town flips not giving us much, that doesn't mean we get no info from them.

I think all of this is correct. I'd sign off on it.

Matt wrote:

Inawordyes wrote:....

Are you bad?

Linki - Golden, MP, you thinkin' up reasons before IAWY's town flip on why you voted him? "Well, there were more trustworthy people on the IAWY wagon soooo...."

Sure, why not. It's not like I was one of the initiators of the IAWY bandwagon on day one or anything...

In all seriousness, though, I don't think I've ever blamed anyone else for why my vote is at the end of the day and nothing should ever be read as me excusing my vote on the basis of just 'trusting someone else'.

Marco wrote:Regardless, why not just answer the question? You might convince me to vote for him.

I mean, I think your point that we don't get a lot from Wilgy if he flips town is completely fair and true. I can't think of anything. I just don't know that we get a lot from IAWY flipping town either.

I just don't know that we will get much from ANY town flips until we have at least one scum flip.

I wasn't really trying to convince you to vote Wilgy - I'm very comfortable knowing you are on the IAWY train.

sig wrote:MM I think your math is off, but idk and I'm to tired to figure it out.

Could someone tell me the case on wilgy?

He's throwing out suspicions but without substantiating any of them in reads or perspective.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:My town read of ika partially comes from his insistence on his reads and his total lack of hesitance to call people out for any little thing, similar to myself.

I assume you read Golden as scum still. Who do you see as his teammates?

If not MM, then as much as I hate to say it, possibly MP. I'm not sure though and I definitely don't want to bite down on the latter conclusion too soon.

Don't worry, I'm not scum.

And neither am I, so the whole thing will be moot.

I have very little doubt at this point that the idea we are baddie teammates will absolutely be debunked by the flip of whichever of us dies first.

It hasn't escaped my attention that, as a rule, I trust the people on the IAWY wagon a lot more than I trust the ones on the Wilgy wagon

Marco wrote:If Wilgy is lynched and flips town, what leads are we looking at? I feel like his flip will give us the least information.

You seem focussed very much on the information we get 'if someone flips town'.

Yesterday, it was about it being three vs two.

This time, if its a two way battle between IAWY and Wilgy and the loser flips town, why would we get less information from Wilgy's townflip than IAWY's townflip?

Oops, I take make that last vote

VOTE DRWILGY

Didn't realise the tie was already broken.

Dyslexicon wrote:Oh look, a 3 way tie!

VOTE GOLDEN

In that case

VOTE INAWORDYES

I don't want a tie THAT much.

Marco wrote:Wow, the MM wagon just disappeared.

VOTE INAWORDYES

It hasn't been around for a while.

Is deadline one hour?

I'm comfortable with either of these two going, and I want to see who breaks the tie and how.

Matt wrote:Before a third person connects me and IAWY, I'd just like to say...

Nice to meet you, IAWY. Sorry you're about to get lynched apparently, while Wilgy is free to roam the town while killing us in our sleep

I'm still considering a Wilgy lynch. My flip was to stop IAWY from vanishing from the lynch pool entirely, as it sounded like some people were angling for that.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Oops, that should have been OT green. Actually, a handful of my recent posts should have been. Don't mind me. I've had a long day.

All days are the same length.

sig wrote:Oh never mind there is only one vote on MM, I thought we had 3.

VOTE INAWORDYES

linki: Sorry Dizzy I hate CFDs :P

I'm going with IWAY tonight, if we are in a set up with a vig I suggest they shoot MM if not lets lynch him tomorrow.

I think town vig would be better off taking out an enigma such as Psi or Wilgy, than someone who is participating and who we can talk about. Just my perspective. Of course, that person should always feel free to go with their gut anyway.

Marco wrote:@MP, I'm not planning on voting golden this phase, but I do want your thoughts on that golden post. You can do so next phase as per your convenience.

Also, how long before phase ends. At this point, I'm back to my lynch candidates of yesterday, IAWY and MM.

Feelings on Wilgy generally?

Matt wrote:Golden why'd you move your vote?

Explained when I changed my vote.

a2thezebra wrote:Golden, I was more than willing to have a rational discussion. I tried to with you, but YOU weren't having it. You never used reason in your responses, only condescension and malice. I'm not pissed at you, I just think that you are being too selfish in this game for me to interact with you further regarding my read of you. You have made it clear that you have no interest in this game of understanding other players' perspectives (or even consider the possibility that their "tunneling" of you is to provide more content to gain a more confident read of you and perhaps others) unless it benefits you, and I don't have time for that. It would just be a thorn in my side to entertain it further. I find it fitting that you compared my interaction with you to your earlier interaction with Silver since you weren't giving her the time of day either, all the while blaming her for your failure to communicate.

Oh yeah, golden... never uses reason in his responses.

You didn't want reason in my responses. You dismissed all reason out of hand with attempts to trip me up in semantics and comments like 'I expected that tactic'. I mean, you ask me to explain the progression of my sloonei read, so I explain it very carefully the whole way through... and you just dismissed every aspect of it in every way. And that's me not using reason or having a reasonable discussion?

PS - I never blamed silverwolf for the failure to communicate. I think it was on both of us. If I wasn't giving her the time of day, I wouldn't have come out the other side with a town read. This kind of stuff is just bullsuit. Stop thinking you know whats going on in my head, how selfish I am etc. It's not about ME, even though you seem to want to make it about me.

VOTE INAWORDYES

Call it a pre-emptive strike against developing things in the thread that suggest taking IAWY out of the lynch mix.

a2thezebra wrote:You've made it clear that you believe that anyone who suspects you is an idiot for doing so regardless of what reasons they may have.

This is not true. I've made it clear that you have no history of being able to read me and that when you've tunnelled on me in the past you've been wrong. And you are again.

Plenty of people have suspected me in this game but they've made an effort to listen to my responses and think about them. You haven't indicated any desire to do so. You just use semantic argument against me and are determined to see everything I say as more proof in your favour. I'm not the one here who is so utterly convinced of my position on someone that they can't keep things in perspective.

If you want to be pissed at me, then whatever. All I want is for people who have a propensity to tunnel me to learn. They never seem to. You, Mac, Matt... you don't tunnel me when I'm scum. You only do it when I'm town. But you never seem to learn... you just see the same things as suspicious over and over.

Your original suspicion on me appeared rooted in the fact my playstyle was different. I've tried to give the best explanation I can as to exactly what my playstyle intent is this game and why. If you don't think that is worth an actual subject-based response despite the fact it was the first root of your suspicion, then I'd have to say you aren't interested in suspecting me for game reasons at this point, but you just feel so committed to your read that you aren't willing to have rational discussion about the merits of it.

I guess that is a response, of sorts.

I'd be pretty happy with IAWY or Wilgy. Either will do me fine. Would be great to see it come down to the two of them.

Matt wrote:Linki - Oh but Golden, you just gave me a free pass to do so. *sigh*

I mean, if you started tunneling me you'd only be adding your voice to zebra as two people who have not ever demonstrated a propensity to see my scum game, and are wrong this game, but will tunnel me anyway.

I guess I have to be ready to be tunnelled by people who don't know anything about my play style.

I was asking people to let me get practice in in the sign up thread, but already this game has given me a heck of a lot of practice. No pulling punches now.

Dyslexicon wrote:Like, I don't think Matt is scum actually. Hi.

Matt seems pretty town Matt.

I'll know for sure if he starts tunnelling on me

And Marco. Yes.

@zebra - I'd like to know your response to these posts.

Nah, MP got all these champs reps from other communities. It's good practice for lots of peeps.

Matt wrote:If Golden dies, does the game end? Or do we still play?

I'm not asking because of night actions or anything...

Yes, the game ends.

Everyone's win condition depends on my survival. If I die you all lose

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Golden, what is your current read of MM?

Slight town.

I see. Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing that made you initially suspect him was his hinting that MP had a power role, correct?

No. That's merely 'additional context' I gave later.

Then what was the primary reason or reasons that you initially suspected him?

His relative low posterness in the first half of day one.

Sloonei jumping from Frog to IAWY rather than MM - as part of sloonei's bundle of inconsistencies generally.

To be clear - the reasons have now been outweighed for me, which is why I'm reading MM as slight town.

Right, you established that earlier in this quotebox. What was it specifically that swayed you to perceive him as slight town?

His own content in providing reads etc. I stopped needing to base it off more factual events as he started posting more and I started to get the sense of reading him based on his own merits.

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Golden, what is your current read of MM?

Slight town.

I see. Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing that made you initially suspect him was his hinting that MP had a power role, correct?

No. That's merely 'additional context' I gave later.

Then what was the primary reason or reasons that you initially suspected him?

His relative low posterness in the first half of day one.

Sloonei jumping from Frog to IAWY rather than MM - as part of sloonei's bundle of inconsistencies generally.

To be clear - the reasons have now been outweighed for me, which is why I'm reading MM as slight town.

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:My town read of ika partially comes from his insistence on his reads and his total lack of hesitance to call people out for any little thing, similar to myself.

I assume you read Golden as scum still. Who do you see as his teammates?

If not MM, then as much as I hate to say it, possibly MP. I'm not sure though and I definitely don't want to bite down on the latter conclusion too soon.

Why do you hate to say it?

Why do you think? I was more than prepared to die because of my confident civ read in him.

I didn't have a reason what I thought. I don't hold in my mind everything you've ever said in the game. I ask you questions because I want to know the answers. This answer was good, makes sense.

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Golden, what is your current read of MM?

Slight town.

I see. Unless I'm mistaken, the only thing that made you initially suspect him was his hinting that MP had a power role, correct?

No. That's merely 'additional context' I gave later.

PS - my computer is on a massive go slow atm. It's like, one minute to post each reply, and then if it gets caught in linki its a minute all over again. Hopefully it resolves before EOD.

Matt wrote:I don't agree with Zebra's assessment that Wilgy cares less what he looks like when he's good. I think Wilgy is completely random in any given game (he's told me as such, fyi).

I agree.

a2thezebra wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:My town read of ika partially comes from his insistence on his reads and his total lack of hesitance to call people out for any little thing, similar to myself.

I assume you read Golden as scum still. Who do you see as his teammates?

If not MM, then as much as I hate to say it, possibly MP. I'm not sure though and I definitely don't want to bite down on the latter conclusion too soon.

Why do you hate to say it?

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:In respect of ika, he comes across as very earnest - he did in Turf Wars when bad too, but in that case he knew he would appear town if lynched. I town read him in part because of silverwolf's death, and then when he honestly stated something like 'I would kill silverwolf' his honesty in that when he had no need to point it out made me feel good about him as well. On the flip side, ika getting fixated bothers me - not because it's necessarily a scum tell, but because it minimises his interactions significantly if he is scum. Overall, though, I just 'feel good' about ika right now. Not strongly good. Just, I don't get any feelings that I need to poke there.

Why? He already had said this D1. He woudln't be able to deny it.

Sure, but he didn't need to affirm it.

Dyslexicon wrote:Why is Golden on the same wagon as IAWY who he apparently suspects?

IAWY's votes hardly seem to be indicative of who he thinks is actually bad. He is voting for his null reads to get them to talk. Voting for a teammate within that context would not only be normal, but if scum practically mandatory.

Marco wrote:It should be noted that zexy has not really been engaging in the game since after the first half of day 1. I'm still waiting on those ISO reads he promised around 72 hours ago.

This is fair. It's easy to create a town persona early and then skate on it. If it became a pattern I would have to revisit my read.

Dyslexicon wrote:What do you all think about this? Too detailed and paranoid? Or legit suspicion?
Had to point it out cause it's bugging my brain.

I'd need more evident. The posts you've posted all have natural tenses regardless of the identity of who is dead.

a2thezebra wrote:Golden, what is your current read of MM?

Slight town.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

ika wrote:i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

I don't.

That's a response to the last sentence lol, not the first.

I can see MP doing something like that. I wouldn't necessarily call it 'careless'. Just... MP.

Eh, I'm not sure of what the moral of the story is here for you. My point was that I find it hard to believe that MP assuming it was a mafia vig is a "slip". He just assumed that. If he was mafia surely he would be more careful in talking about it. Is that what you're agreeing with?

Yes. I don't think mafia MP would have betrayed set up options as scum. In any event, I think you are right that too much talk about this is probably not a good idea.

a2thezebra wrote:Currently we have a four-way tie, how much time is left?

Several hours.

@zebra - I was trying to make your intention clear beyond mere implication. I assumed that's what it implied but I wanted to check.

Why do you think Wilgy is town?

a2thezebra wrote:

Matt wrote:Where's Zebra, I wanna talk to Zeebs.

Zeebs Zeebs Zeebs

What do you think of the good doctor?

I think he's a good doctor.

Do you think he is a town doctor?

VOTE DRWILGY

There comes a point at which floating by and being non-contributory just doesn't work well for me. No matter what your phone issues are, you can make a coherent post explaining your perspective instead of just stating it.

Golden wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

ika wrote:i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

I don't.

That's a response to the last sentence lol, not the first.

I can see MP doing something like that. I wouldn't necessarily call it 'careless'. Just... MP.

Dyslexicon wrote:

ika wrote:i dont care about doing isos. frog said onething and hes doing the opposite of that yes?

i also never said it excused me. its jsut who i am

So you agree with my point of view that suspecting MP and Sig for assuming the kill was a scum vig doesn't make sense? Do you really se MP being that careless as to make it his first thing to mention? I find that hard to believe.

I don't.

Marco wrote:@golden, there is a misunderstanding there. I never meant that one style is preferable to another. Your style works and I have nothing against it. What I meant by the "mistake" comment had nothing to do with play style. You gained insight and that's that. What I just meant was you were wrong about silver's post and that suspicion could've been easily avoided. Now the fact that it led you to engage her and develop a strong read is good but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that your initial suspicion about her vote was an error.

Yeah, I get you now. But, I have to be honest about why, last night, I expressed I was wavering in my read.

Explaining my previous posts shouldn't be confused with still holding the same view as I did at the time.

Dyslexicon wrote:Golden, Can you talk a bit about your reads on Ika dn Zexy, please?

I've sort of talked about Zexy. I think I feel good about him because we see things in such a similar way, perhaps. Whatever the reason, I just get really good vibes from him, and have for most of the game. All his thoughts feel like they are coming from the perspective of town, to me.

In respect of ika, he comes across as very earnest - he did in Turf Wars when bad too, but in that case he knew he would appear town if lynched. I town read him in part because of silverwolf's death, and then when he honestly stated something like 'I would kill silverwolf' his honesty in that when he had no need to point it out made me feel good about him as well. On the flip side, ika getting fixated bothers me - not because it's necessarily a scum tell, but because it minimises his interactions significantly if he is scum. Overall, though, I just 'feel good' about ika right now. Not strongly good. Just, I don't get any feelings that I need to poke there.