The Syndicate

If I had not already voted for sig, I would consider a vote for zebra. I still think floyd isn't a bad idea, though.

@Eloh - I think it is possible for you to be less cryptic about things you are hinting at, in light of epi's rulings, should you want to be.

@Epi - one further clarification, because I feel this is within the rules but I just want to check.

I would be allowed to say 'my power is x and I targetted y with it last night.' - as long as this was not claiming an ability like 'I check if people are mafia'

a2thezebra wrote:There's nothing impulsive about my Golden vote.

I'm sure there isn't, you've suspected me all game.

However, I am House Atriedes (thanks for clarifying what can be claimed epi), I've already provided plenty of evidence that I have the same win con as zebra 1.0, and your vote for me will not help the civilians win the game.

bea wrote:

MacDougall wrote:It's not tied to the emoticon

more blank stares then. I thought it was completely tied to the win con. It was when both you and golden said he freeked out by the emoticon that I thought that.

I know my win con it's for Harrkeranourous to be dead.

I assume that everyone else is civ alligned till they prove me otherwise.

Bea, for me that convo was entirely the win con (the fact it appeared he didn't have the same as me) and nothing to do with emoticons or anything.

bea wrote:

Golden wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

If I hadn't voted sig, and I had a binary choice between voting either zebra or voting mac, I would choose to vote zebra. I could not be induced to vote mac today.

Zebra isn't at the top of my list though. And I'd rather not assume sig must be good... he could still be bad, despite the three votes he already has.

If you didn't have a binary choice between zebra and mac who would you have maybe thought about voting if you hadn't voted sig?

With Ninja off the poll, I'm not sure who my first choice would have been. Probably TH, although it almost seems too obvious, but he and MM have been so linked the entire game. I hadn't decided for sure.

My point in terms of the binary choice between zebra and mac is... I think zebra is wrong.

bea wrote:TH said he remembered me doing it as a civ and I welcome svs, golden and sorsha to chime in their two cents on the matter as well.

Long story short. I know I've done it and been civ. No I can't provide an example. I know this doesn't help my case. It is what it is.

I really can't remember you self voting any other time, so I concur that it's very rare. I don't see it specifically as a sign that you are bad (or that you are civ).

FZ. wrote:What is people's opinion of the Smuggler role? Is it someone that can harm the civvies (assuming all none harp are civvies fighting for the same cause)?

My guess - a little educated based on what little I know of epi games and what I know of this game so far - is that it can win with the civvies, but that it probably has its own win condition which would have that person setting their own agenda, and their role might be able to hurt civvies even if they don't necessarily need to. I would prioritise harkonnen lynches over the smuggler.

I think the safe assumption right now is that everyone except the harkonnen and smuggler are civvies fighting for the same cause. I wouldn't assume team emperor HAS to, though. My guess is they are a neutral faction who only have to survive.

(I did a little study on the Emperor and the Fremen today. Even from my memory of the books, I'm assuming the Fremen will need the Harkonnen dead. The Emperor, is less clear to me).

Its exactly the kind of thing I get lynched for doing when civ, but NEVER when bad.

@FZ - you are on my civvie list because of your vote. I hope that helps balance it out.

@Eloh - I see no reason to presume either way, but also lets not forget that if someone had a redirection role, they would not know what power they were redirecting. A baddie, for instance, might attempt to redirect a power to themselves in the hope that it is positive or to learn what it is (a tactic I know for a fact Metalmarsh kept wanting to use when we were bad in a Gentleman's Guide and we had that power as a baddie - he kept saying 'lets redirect to me').

Elohcin wrote:Sorsha, who do you suspect as being a part of Team Hark?

THe more Zebra 2.0 talks the more I suspect her. I would go ahead and vote for her now, but I think we who are not voting sig need to stick together to help save him. Is anyone else down with a zebra vote today?

If I hadn't voted sig, and I had a binary choice between voting either zebra or voting mac, I would choose to vote zebra. I could not be induced to vote mac today.

Zebra isn't at the top of my list though. And I'd rather not assume sig must be good... he could still be bad, despite the three votes he already has.

Tunnelingus?

Elohcin wrote:

Golden wrote:@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.

And do you have any response?

I suspect there will be more votes on Sig before the day's end. What I am curious about is...why sig?

Is the redirection role usually a baddie role or a civ role?

@ Sorsha. I do. Are you voting for Sig today too?

No, I don't have any particular response. I feel sorry for sig, but if there are more votes before days end, then I really hope he turns out to be bad.

Matt F wrote:

Golden wrote:

Matt F wrote:Whattya mean melodramatic? Figured that'd be the best way to get you to back off. I have no other recourse. I've explained why I've said what I said and I don't think you're believing me, so it is what it is.

What do you want me to back off of? I'm not coming at you!

Lol if you believe I'm any other faction other then town, I take that as coming at me. You wouldn't?

No, and if you actually read my posts instead of getting defensive I think it would very clear to you why.

Matt F wrote:Whattya mean melodramatic? Figured that'd be the best way to get you to back off. I have no other recourse. I've explained why I've said what I said and I don't think you're believing me, so it is what it is.

What do you want me to back off of? I'm not coming at you!

Oh FFS matt, don't be so melodramatic, stop being defensive, take your jaded glasses off, read my posts and take them for what they are. Your uber-defensiveness is entirely unhelpful to me figuring you out.

a2thezebra wrote:

Golden wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:Say Golden, have you read your win condition?

Yes.

Are you surprised to see Harkonnen have a kill every night?

Not really. I would be more surprised to find that any of the other factions were killing as well (except maybe The Smuggler), but I wouldn't be pinged by anyone who felt otherwise.

OK. Except I want to be clear that none of your last sentence applies to anything I am saying about Matt. I do not currently think he is Harkonnen, and what I am specifically pinged by is that he seemed to not know whether Harkonnen would have the kill (backed up by the fact he already intended to post that whenever the second Harkonnen kill occurred.

I would not vote for Matt today (even if I hadn't voted for sig).

I'm just trying to figure out what is going on in his head.

@Eloh - I've read all your posts very carefully.

Host - what is the correct interplay/interpretation between these two rules?

Epignosis wrote:The Rules

3. No role outing of yourself or anyone else.

14. This is a closed setup. Any claims a player posts in the thread will not be confirmed or contradicted by the host.

I assume this means, for instance, I could not claim to be "Gurney Halleck" (using that because we know its zebra 1.0) but I might be able to claim other things such as my ability or win con?

@Matt F -

1) I don't even know if sig was the intended target, so I don't read anything into it.
2) I really think you need to read my posts better since you keep saying stuff I am not saying. I am not claiming it is not possible other factions have kills, nor am I claiming you did anything you didn't fully intend to do. I'm claiming only one thing - you do not have the same win con as me, since I would not feel the need to 'wait and see' if Harkonnen were killing tonight. I already felt sure they would have a kill every night. Any other kill that may be out there I would expect to be additional, but also not necessarily anti-town.

a2thezebra wrote:Say Golden, have you read your win condition?

Yes.

Are you surprised to see Harkonnen have a kill every night?

Matt F wrote:And regarding SVS, you really think I would say that to her had I tried to kill her? C'mon dude, really?

Like you say, there was no evidence there was any kill attempt on SVS.

But, it was an oddly specific question. Do you have a reason to believe SVS would have survived that day, if she was targetted for a kill?

Matt - I'm interested in lynching Harkonnens, which I do not currently think you are. You seem remarkably defensive, but my intent in this line of questioning has been to figure out what is going on with you, which I think is kind of important.

I don't know, straight up, whether they have kills or not.

What I do know is, I expected that Harkonnen would have the kill both nights, but it seemed to be less of a sure thing to you. That suggests to me that you have a different win condition to me. Not necessarily an anti-town one, just a different one.

@Eloh - feel free to talk about it. What do you think is the most likely explanation?

It doesn't help that your question to SVS yesterday kind of reeked of 'SVS, I tried to kill you. Why didn't you die?'

Matt F wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:I think that because you assumed that another faction will start killing when it hadn't crossed Mac's mind, (which I actually find hard to believe) you may have revealed that you are a part of whatever faction that may be. I think it's a stretch, otherwise I wouldn't tell you.

Thanks.

So then in that case, Mac believes I am part of the Fremen, Emperor teams or the Smuggler. Fantastic. Golden seems to think I'm the Smuggler too based on "indy slip".

I stated the obvious, and yes, I also find it hard to believe that both Mac and Golden hadn't previously thought those things could be possible. For real?

Any of those three could be independent. But I think it most likely that the intent behind your statement was to make your own faction appear more town-aligned and less of a threat (whether or not this is actually true or not. With you, I believe you would do it if town-aligned, I just don't know if you would also lie about it).

I don't think it is a scumslip either, and I've never said I do.

It could be an independentslip, though.

@Matt - I will now elaborate. Did you read your win condition?

Hey Matt. Before Mac answers, how about YOU elaborate further?

MacDougall wrote:

Matt F wrote:

sig wrote:Wait what, three votes at the start of the day why?

I noticed Harkonnen killed again. So the other factions aren't killing (as of yet).

Indeed.

sig wrote:Wait what, three votes at the start of the day why?

Why do you think?

I wasn't expecting to be part of a bandwagon! lol.

My apologies sig.

Voting for sig

BWT

When I remember, I try to soften things so they look less like facts and more like opinions, since that is what they are. I have a history of ruffling feathers and giving others the impression I have a big ego because I write my opinions as facts not opinions.

(Which I do because thats what you are trained to do when writing legal opinions. You have to take out all of the "I thinks" etc.)

MacDougall wrote:What is your read on that play?

I agree with your read that there is scum in there. Ninja voting for eloh, and then for sig, felt much more like an MM teammate looking for a wagon that could overtake the MM wagon, than eloh's vote for ninja did. To me.

Petty and pathetic?

Maybe it just means epi isn't going to write a lot?

By number one suspect right now is ninja.

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:@Mac - Eloh ended up with no votes because she wasn't on the poll. Does that change your view?

Niju tried to vote for her though right?

Yes, but if they were teammates together do you think ninja would have had more awareness that she wasn't on the poll and not made that post, or do you think the 'trying to vote for her' would have been part of the ruse?

@Mac - Eloh ended up with no votes because she wasn't on the poll. Does that change your view?

sig wrote:

Golden wrote:I felt pretty good about an MM vote anyway, but Sorsha's case makes me feel even more better (unlike Matt, I don't respect epi enough to use proper grammar when he is hosting).

I would also feel pretty good with a Floyd vote, which before the MM thing flared up was probably where my vote would have gone, so I like the way this day seems to be going.

Said he would feel good about either vote leaving his options open, leaving him to vote for either wagon if needed. This is slightly pingy but not that much, he ends the day putting MM further in the lead this could've been done to gain civ credit but I'm not sure.

I already had some suspicion from golden this didn't increase or decrease it. Would rather lynch someone else tomorrow.

@Golden what do you think of Floyd right know would you still consider voting him with MM flip?

Very quickly.

If not for Sorsha, I probably would have voted Floyd. I was keeping both options open because I actually intended to create some late interest and do something along the lines of what FZ did - tie it up and see what people after me did. I thought it would be a good opportunity to learn. As Floyd was behind at the time, he was the likelier candidate. I went MM and abandoned that plan only because Sorsha was very convincing.

In that sense, Mac has talked about looking like the 'hero of the lynch', but I only look like the hero of the lynch because of what came after me. I didn't know or expect a tie (in fact, after what Sorsha said, I expected all the votes after me to come in on MM too). None of these things are necessarily points in favour of me being civ, but they are the truth.

As for still considering voting Floyd... yes, he will still be on my radar for a vote today, although others will be too. The vote gave us stuff to work with.

sig wrote:What is the likely hood that there are two mafia teams?

Zero

Turnip Head wrote:

Matt F wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Good job Sorsha. I guess this looks really bad for me.

What do you think of FZ pushing a tie at the last minute?

I have to ask myself if it would really be worth the risk for her.

Completely agree. FZ's gambit had good potential civ value, and seems way risky if she is bad. Unless Floyd is also bad. Which I suppose I can't rule out.

no vote from bea, draconus, banana...

I really am ok with this however it goes.

@banana - who would you have voted for?

FZ. wrote:

Golden wrote:I voted MM. I wouldn't want Sorsha to tunnel.

I voted MM. I wouldn't want Sorsha to tunnel.

FZ. wrote:

Golden wrote:Marmot barely posted in this thread for days, and then suddenly appeared when people said it was suspicious. I don't think lynching him would be unfair - that's very odd behaviour for a marmot.

If I'm not going with Eloh, I could go with MM. What's your opinion of Eloh? You said that if zebra 1 comes out civ, you might change your opinion on Eloh. Did you?

Not really, but her vote for ninja just then pinged me and that's the first time I've begun to feel like others might be right about her.

Marmot barely posted in this thread for days, and then suddenly appeared when people said it was suspicious. I don't think lynching him would be unfair - that's very odd behaviour for a marmot.

I felt pretty good about an MM vote anyway, but Sorsha's case makes me feel even more better (unlike Matt, I don't respect epi enough to use proper grammar when he is hosting).

I would also feel pretty good with a Floyd vote, which before the MM thing flared up was probably where my vote would have gone, so I like the way this day seems to be going.

bea wrote:in his defense, I did kinda demand he give it to me. Though, according to him, there's one left - race you to the fridge.

No fair, you are definitely closer to MM's fridge than me.

bea wrote:Do you guys really think I'm bad? like really?

I don't think that this is quite what either of us said

But I do really think you could be bad. I just haven't figured you out yet.