The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote:linki: Thank you indi. Anyone for a not-so-last-minute bandwagon on gleam?

As much as I believe it just pushes sig conversation tomorrow, I actually wouldn't mind doing this. The Fuzz vote on ika rather than gleam after suspecting gleam and saying he's stay away from the ika/silverwolf thing has always looked like a potential gleam save to me.

ika wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Welcome to the Silverika show everybody.
tickets cost $20

Is that sarcastic orange because they actually cost way more than that?

Silverwolf wrote:chaindeath is the nullest of nulls to me

I have no clue how to read him.

In the third person.

ika wrote:
Golden wrote:Ika wouldn't need to be bussing anyway. His vote is explainable as self-defence.
not really, there were 3 wagons

me/fuz/esp (and gleam who i was on)

if i wanted to do it out of self-defense i would or just gone for esp. fuzz was the CFD one so i disagree it could be argued that

OK. I like the way you defend against things that you think are incorrect even when no-one is suggesting the thing makes you bad. It makes me think your primary motive is the truth and not how you look.

Ika wouldn't need to be bussing anyway. His vote is explainable as self-defence.

Silverwolf wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Golden wrote:
ika wrote:ok.......

silver is basicly the entire person who started the lynch, she was the primay person who pointed it out so golden i would love ot hear why in the wolrd she has nothing to do with it, the cronolgical order shows she was the firest TO point it out
I can't win, can I.
You're always a winner in my book, Golden. Since Ika and Silver are doing this sickening defend-each-other-to-the-death-regardless-of-evidence, I am happy to defend you in the same way. It's only fair to even the odds.
I disagree that I'm defending ika that strongly. I'll admit I didn't want him lynched for not alignment, playstyle differences. But if you look at my last few posts, if anything, I'm starting to get a little paranoid.

I agree with TH. The strong defending is mostly one way.

But thanks llama for the love

Seriously, I'm not criticising or discrediting silverwolf in any way.

If silverwolf believes she made the case and SVS followed it, she is welcome to give that take.

I think silverwolf had a suspicion, and SVS then went and ISO'd Fuzz and made a case.

This is no more discrediting silverwolf as it is anyone else who is not named SVS for not being the one who made the case.

Silverwolf wrote:You left out some key points there Golden by implying I had nothing to do with the Fuzz lynch. Why are you trying to discredit me? I wasn't the only one involved with it but I called the vote out as bad first and also helped pushed that lynch very hard and even laid out some key points to make it happen. The fact that you are implying I had nothing to do with it by selective quoting is starting to make me not like you again.

What key points did I leave out?

I'm not trying to discredit you. Who do you think made the case on Fuzz. Was it you or SVS?

I neither tried to imply you had nothing to do with it, nor did I say it, and it's the complete opposite of the truth. However, to say it was your case that SVS jumped on is not true. SVS made the case. You didn't expect Fuzz to actually go down immediately and only got on board when you realised it was something that could actually happen. You had plenty to do with it. But not the thing that Quin is saying you had to do with it.

Are you looking at the full context? Are you arguing that SVS is bad and jumped on your case to make herself look better, as Quin is suggesting?

ika wrote:ok.......

silver is basicly the entire person who started the lynch, she was the primay person who pointed it out so golden i would love ot hear why in the wolrd she has nothing to do with it, the cronolgical order shows she was the firest TO point it out

I can't win, can I.

Quin wrote:Do it then.

You may find this ironic, but I actually don't want to rush into my decision about where my vote actually ends up.

I've gone back and forth on the pair of you. It drives me nuts.

sig wrote:Quin could be bad, lynching him is much better then me.

I'm beginning to think this might be true.

@Quin - are you seriously telling me that, at zero votes... SVS would have seen Fuzz's lynch as 'inevitable' based on one person saying 'that was very opportunistic and probably scum'. Thats basically the same as DDL's idea that I'm flexible enough to bus someone but not taking into account that there was no need to bus.

Fuzz's lynch was far from inevitable, and without SVS's case there was literally zero chance it happened. There is a big difference between being an early adopter, and actually making the case that gets someone lynched.

thellama73 wrote:I'm starting to feel like I'm not being taken seriously.

Never!

OK, usually.

Yes, I did ISO them. You can tell very easily from starting a thread read from this point:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 95#p242395

Here are the key points...

Silverwolf

Silverwolf wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika
This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

Literally the only post that you can be referring to as SW making a case. Also the only one that can be referred to as SW putting Fuzz's name into a CFD pool. After that...

Golden wrote:Serge and Fuzz votes both opportunistic, I'd be open to either of them too.

I put Fuzz in the CFD pool.

S~V~S wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:
RadicalFuzz wrote:Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika
This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.
I kind of agree. This is his last postmentioning ika:
RadicalFuzz wrote:Matt is either playing from a high tightrope or is town. The risk/reward for his actions feels like high/medium if he's scum.
Sloonei is my strongest townread, as his posts have consistently made logical sense and he's avoided tunnelling on one player or interaction. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and that's good.
You look town-y to me, for similar reasons to Sloonei. The difference is your tone reads as a little early to reach a conclusion, like you're content with finding enough facts to reach a conclusion at all, not necessarily the correct one.

Spirityo still has said next to nothing and we're a few hours out from Day 2 ending. His four posts consist of the following. A "linki - that's a good idea", one "I agree with Sloonei about the cultural differences between RYM & Syndicate", a greeting to everyone, and an apology for missing the vote. Absolutely zero content whatsoever.
Enrique I don't like because of his refusal to explain his vote on Day 1. That entire situation read as if he was nervous, if that makes sense, like he didn't have a reason at the time of his vote but decided he needed one.

I refuse to touch the Silverwolf/ika thing with a 39 & 1/2 foot pole. There's some logic to be found in interactions regarding them, but so much emotion that I'd probably end up stepping on someone's toes and they'd get mad at me for their decision to wear sandals.

My vote's going to be used to prevent a tie today. I'm indifferent as to where specifically it goes.

Turnip the reason you should vote for me is so you stop twiddling your thumbs about who to vote for.

Llama can you elaborate on your conclusion that Luffy's posts scream "cop?"

SVS makes the case...

And after both of those things...

Silverwolf wrote:
Golden wrote:Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.
I don't like this. I never like the idea of a last minute flash wagon at the end of the day.

Your latest posts are not really sitting well with me.

Radical Fuzz, Golden need to be looked into more tomorrow IMO.

Silverwolf is clearly not even on board with a CFD at that time, even.

Quin wrote:
Golden wrote:Like, at least DDL's case on me has a little merit in that you can say I just went with the target. SVS didn't go with the target. She made the case and effectively selected the target.
Silverwolf created the case. ISO them both for their respective posts and you'll see that.

No. Thats simply not true. It's entirely false. Very similar to DDL saying silverwolf put Fuzz's name in the pool for possible CFD too, which was actually me. Neither of those things were silverwolf.

Like, at least DDL's case on me has a little merit in that you can say I just went with the target. SVS didn't go with the target. She made the case and effectively selected the target.

Quin wrote:
Golden wrote:What were you talking about?
She took my opposition to lynching fuzz as bad, just as I see her jumping on the bandwagon as bad. To change our minds is, as I said, counterproductive.

But, as I've said to you several times, she didn't jump on the bandwagon. She created it.

What were you talking about?

Quin wrote:
Golden wrote:
Quin wrote: To the very end she refuses to discuss anything.

Cool. Someone tell me this is normal behaviour. I don't get it.
My advice from personal experience. SVS is a mystery that cannot be understood. But it doesn't make her any less awesome (regardless of alignment).

In this case, I think you should really take note of her role in the Fuzz lynch. I think you are barking up the wrong tree.
I could say the same thing about my role in the lynch to her. She's definitely barking up the wrong tree.

But you see where that becomes counterproductive, I trust.

What role did you have in lynching any baddie? How can the two be compared?

thellama73 wrote:
Golden wrote:
Quin wrote: To the very end she refuses to discuss anything.

Cool. Someone tell me this is normal behaviour. I don't get it.
My advice from personal experience. SVS is a mystery that cannot be understood. But it doesn't make her any less awesome (regardless of alignment).

In this case, I think you should really take note of her role in the Fuzz lynch. I think you are barking up the wrong tree.
I kind of miss the old days when SVS and I would relentlessly attack each other in every game regardless of alignment. Where have all the good times gone?

You're too busy voting for DDL.

Quin wrote: To the very end she refuses to discuss anything.

Cool. Someone tell me this is normal behaviour. I don't get it.

My advice from personal experience. SVS is a mystery that cannot be understood. But it doesn't make her any less awesome (regardless of alignment).

In this case, I think you should really take note of her role in the Fuzz lynch. I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

I don't really have a 'problem' with it either - but I'm damn well going to push you until I feel I've gotten to the bottom of it and whether or not it is genuine.

What do you think of a gleam vote? I think Fuzz voting ika might have been to save gleam.

Turnip Head wrote:
Golden wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:Golden, sometimes reading people is about more than looking at the "evidence".
I would say always.
Then I don't understand why you have a problem with my read... what the hell... you're talking in circles.

Because you have never exhibited any doubt in your read. Something that even I have done.

Turnip Head wrote:Golden, sometimes reading people is about more than looking at the "evidence".

I would say always.

If you don't like letter C, what letter would you like?

a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:Well, TH and zebra. All I can say is that if you can defend sig's behaviour at the end of EoD2 as genuine, then next time I'm bad I'll count on your support when I cast the vote to save my baddie teammate. All I have to do is scream that the people who are trying to lynch my teammate are probably mostly bad, and decry that there are no reasons for it.

I mean, honestly, I can't see the perspective of either of you coming from anything other than info.
It's not that simple. If in the process of saving your baddie teammate you came off as baddie-motivated or disingenuous, I wouldn't be defending you. I'm defending sig because he never came off that way in the process. Not to me anyway. You're free to disagree but don't act like your word is Gospel.

The Gospel of Golden.

Here is the thing... I don't expect anyone to blindly follow me into the sig black hole and vote for him. I just cannot see how you can come out of them with him as a top town read.

I can't see how it can possibly be genuine for someone to look at the objective signs sig is bad and go, well, there is quite a bit there to give me pause. Even if my gut says I feel like he's town, I can't go full hog with him. It might be slight town or neutral. Top town/strong town is what seems off to me. I can understand your perspective as you've explained it, but I can't understand how that translates to strong town.

sig wrote:@Silverwolf I have. Multiply times, and made cases agaisnt them they have been widely ignored.

@Epi you weren't the only one who was supposed to switch switch back.

Hey, sig, one good way of achieving this is a rainbow list.

Turnip Head wrote:
Golden wrote:I mean, honestly, I can't see the perspective of either of you coming from anything other than info.
Well then I guess you don't know my game very well.

This is true. You're hard to read.

Well, TH and zebra. All I can say is that if you can defend sig's behaviour at the end of EoD2 as genuine, then next time I'm bad I'll count on your support when I cast the vote to save my baddie teammate. All I have to do is scream that the people who are trying to lynch my teammate are probably mostly bad, and decry that there are no reasons for it.

I mean, honestly, I can't see the perspective of either of you coming from anything other than info.

Quin wrote:
Golden wrote:
Quin wrote:...Are you really going to argue that? What do I gain by pretending not to understand? What do you gain by refusing to elaborate on your point?

Please lynch SVS.
So, you are saying when TH called for a CFD, and SVS figured out the case on Fuzz, she was going out of her way to bus?

I mean, SVS would bus a teammate if she had to, but I can't see her ever going out of her way to choose her teammate as the target when they weren't before.
Silverwolf came up with the case on SVS. Makes sense that SVS would jump on a bandwagon waiting to happen to look better.

The EoD2 situation wasn't even a contributing factor, but thanks for helping me establish my case.

What?

SVS didn't JUMP on it. She created it. How is me saying I don't think she would EVER do that establishing your case?

Turnip Head wrote:I've already said why I think sig is town, I think he spoke his mind about the Fuzz lynch looking sketchy and was wrong. I don't know how else to say that.

How about why you think that...

I mean, for example, I ISOed Quin and sig out of that. One of them had an apparently motive-less, neutral set of posts about how they didn't understand the suspicion on Fuzz and wouldn't vote that way.

The other one agreed with the CFD in principle but after the target was chosen tried to call it a deeply scummy move and paint some of the leaders of it as inconsistent and scummy as it was going down.

There is such a massive difference between the behaviour of Quin and sig during that time. But you haven't addressed that at all.

@zebra - oh, but sig didn't merely try and save fuzz. He painted the entire CFD as a scummy move and tried to create fearmongering against it.

thellama73 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Quin wrote:What do you all think about llama right now? Do you think his sudden declaration of activity to be a bit convenient given Silver's decision to start looking at inactives? Or is llama prone to these bursts of inactivity/activity due to work?
The latter.
I was legit in Cincinnati for the weekend working. You can check. There is video and photo documentation.
Here is a photo of me working, doubters.

Hey, look, a T-shirt that says staff and an authorisation pass and everything!

You do look kinda like you are looking right at DDL, though. :duelattenpaces:

Quin wrote:...Are you really going to argue that? What do I gain by pretending not to understand? What do you gain by refusing to elaborate on your point?

Please lynch SVS.

So, you are saying when TH called for a CFD, and SVS figured out the case on Fuzz, she was going out of her way to bus?

I mean, SVS would bus a teammate if she had to, but I can't see her ever going out of her way to choose her teammate as the target when they weren't before.

Turnip Head wrote:
Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:Except, apparently, sig, who is the civviest of civs? Why?
sig isn't safe from suspicion. If I suspect him I'll voice whatever suspicion I have. But the fact that I haven't been pinged by him yet combined with the fact that the opposition against him is remarkably over-the-top and overtly disingenuous (his voting record makes him bad? REALLY?) does indeed make him the civviest of civs at this time.
Oh, so we should simply expect all baddies to bus then? Voting records are irrelevant?

How is it disingenuous to see sig as demonstrating intent - in both thread and vote - to save fuzz?
If Fuzz flipped town (or if ika flipped bad), sig would have looked like a goddamn hero.

The evidence against him doesn't convince me. But it looks like you're getting the easy sig lynch that you wanted

OK, but Fuzz didn't flip town, right? And his teammates knew he wouldn't...

The evidence sig is town is, at the moment, some people defending him but who aren't willing to get on the ground and actually give behaviours that look town. They just reject the behaviours that look bad as unconvincing, as you have.

a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:Except, apparently, sig, who is the civviest of civs? Why?
sig isn't safe from suspicion. If I suspect him I'll voice whatever suspicion I have. But the fact that I haven't been pinged by him yet combined with the fact that the opposition against him is remarkably over-the-top and overtly disingenuous (his voting record makes him bad? REALLY?) does indeed make him the civviest of civs at this time.

Oh, so we should simply expect all baddies to bus then? Voting records are irrelevant?

How is it disingenuous to see sig as demonstrating intent - in both thread and vote - to save fuzz?

a2thezebra wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Quin wrote:On top of that, he's been giving black and white statements ever since EoD2, which I do not like.
This is the main thing that's been bothering me about Golden.
Well, he is not bad so you can stop being bothered
Relax, he's a yellow read. Bottom 10 but not bottom 5.
He has been taking alot of flak, and he is probably the civviest person in this thread after Silver imo. And I absolutely hate the thrust at him. Ever since Fuzz' lynch people have been trying to turn this onto the Fuzz voters, and Golden primarily, and that is just a baddie look to me.
Do you think I'm doing any of this by not reading him as confirmed town? I've voiced my discontent over CFDs but I have not tried to turn anything onto the Fuzz voters other than to say that I'm sure there was at least a few baddies on that wagon. No one specific, but I don't see any other possibility. Golden is a yellow read. If he's one of the civviest peeople in this thread, he can take whatever thrust is thrown at him. No one is safe from suspicion.

Except, apparently, sig, who is the civviest of civs? Why?

You might say Who Framed Roger Rabbit, my first game here, was sort of like this.

@zebra - you don't know me enough. I haven't played this style of game since rev mafia.

a2thezebra wrote:
S~V~S wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Quin wrote:On top of that, he's been giving black and white statements ever since EoD2, which I do not like.
This is the main thing that's been bothering me about Golden.
Well, he is not bad so you can stop being bothered
Relax, he's a yellow read. Bottom 10 but not bottom 5.

No, what SVS is saying is I AM NOT SCUM.

Like, there is literally no world on which any person should have me at any less than confirmed town, and any one who knows me knows it.

a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:
Black Rock wrote:Linki Golden, Zebra is a cop? That's the only thing that makes sense to me right now.
There is one other explanation that makes sense to me.
What letter does it start with?
C is for Cookie, Cookie starts with C... cookie cookie cookie starts with C.
Wrong.

Really?

In that case, I'm happy voting for sig. I'd have to be right for sig to be good.

Quin wrote:
Black Rock wrote:I'm switching my vote to Sig, spread out votes aren't helping us this game.

I don't really understand the Llama suspicion. He seems rather neutral this game. Quin, can you tell me why you have Golden in red?

Linki Golden, Zebra is a cop? That's the only thing that makes sense to me right now.
My primary suspicion of Golden is linked with the situation in which I see Scotty as scum. Quite simply he attempted to defend Scotty in an accusation I made of him, without really addressing the issue at hand. It seemed weak and completely off to me. I'm also taking into account Luffy's points that Golden took the front seat for the fuzz lynch, when he didn't actually spearhead anything himself. On top of that, he's been giving black and white statements ever since EoD2, which I do not like.

Luffy's idea that I 'didn't actually spearhead anything myself' can only possibly read as true if you weren't there in the moment. To anyone who was there, its clear I did. That includes you. The posts didn't develop in a linear fashion, we were all posting over each other and getting massive linki, and here is the biggest misrepresentation that he gives... that it was not me that put Fuzz's name in to the CFD pool. Because it WAS me. Yes, silverwolf and ika posted about fuzz the two posts before mine, but neither of them threw him into the pool. TH had the idea of the CFD, but I stated the six xpeople who we needed to get onto the same page, and worked to get us onto one page really hard, along with SVS and sloonei. Like, to be there and think that I wasn't spearheading that is really disingenuous.

a2thezebra wrote:
Quin wrote:On top of that, he's been giving black and white statements ever since EoD2, which I do not like.
This is the main thing that's been bothering me about Golden.

Why?

I mean, besides the fact that I've turned on many of my reads, both town and scum, so it's blatantly false.

a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:Turnip Head
Scotty
thellama73
Nerolunar
sig

Silverwolf
indiglo
agleaminranks
Soneji
Metalmarsh89

Serge
Quin
Golden
Sloonei
S~V~S

chaindeath
Draconus
Boomslang
Dragon D. Luffy
Matt 2.0

Epignosis
ika
Sig and TH look terrible. How can you have them both in your most civilian reads?
Neither of them look terrible, please stop pretending that they do.

Oh, really? Sig defending fuzz hard and saving him with his vote doesn't look terrible? Why?

a2thezebra wrote:
Golden wrote:
Black Rock wrote:Linki Golden, Zebra is a cop? That's the only thing that makes sense to me right now.
There is one other explanation that makes sense to me.
What letter does it start with?

C is for Cookie, Cookie starts with C... cookie cookie cookie starts with C.

@BR, btw, as one of the few people in this game who has known me a long time, would you be able to say what you think of me this game?

Black Rock wrote:Linki Golden, Zebra is a cop? That's the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

There is one other explanation that makes sense to me.

a2thezebra wrote:Turnip Head
Scotty
thellama73
Nerolunar
sig

Silverwolf
indiglo
agleaminranks
Soneji
Metalmarsh89

Serge
Quin
Golden
Sloonei
S~V~S

chaindeath
Draconus
Boomslang
Dragon D. Luffy
Matt 2.0

Epignosis
ika

Sig and TH look terrible. How can you have them both in your most civilian reads?

Scotty wrote:Golden, I'm sorry if you've already answered this, but what is your perception of Sloonei? Both of you have been tunneling hard for sig for 2 cycles now and are seemingly working in tandem towards that cause. But where does he fall on the spectrum for you?

He is one of those who I came out of eod 2 with a very strong town read on, and I don't have any reason to doubt it.

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