The Syndicate

All you isos and conclusions basically go exactly where my gut is.

Your confidence in sig was interesting, though. I'm going to take a second look at that. If I feel really good about him, I could vote zebra ahead of wilgy.

I do think there is really something to be said for Wilgy not being hammered, though. There were chances for the baddies to hammer him (I really believe that, because I really believe in at least two civvies being on board), yet it didn't happen.

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:

ika wrote:why the hell do you think i refuse to change? nobody has yet to come out with a "oh they are cleard cus role" nor has anyone ever given me anything to disprove them killing off silver n1 for her accuracy

Because you are stubborn.

hi pot im kettle, we are both black

too true.

But I do know MP a lot better than you so my reasons for being stubborn hold more weight with me. I'm trying to help you get a good read, ika. At this point, I'm going to stop engaging on your read of MP. Know this:

1) If you are scum, this game will not be forgotten, and if you get all stubborn I will remember. I will remember
2) If you are town, I'm looking forward to hearing from you after the game.

ika wrote:why the hell do you think i refuse to change? nobody has yet to come out with a "oh they are cleard cus role" nor has anyone ever given me anything to disprove them killing off silver n1 for her accuracy

Because you are stubborn.

Oh, yeah, because scum always auto-kill the person who is most suspicious of them to make it so obvious they are bad. Sorry, I forgot that scum pick their kill choices based on what is most likely to get them lynched the next day.

If you want to bet your 'win con' on all of silver's reads being right, then you go ahead. I have no problem with you losing if you are wrong. That's up to you.

But I mean, how can you possibly be expected to be taken seriously when you say all of these three things today:

"All I see is scum from [MP]"

"[MP is posting] filler"

"[MP has] not really given me any TLDR stuff so I didn't even read [MP's posts]"

To me, that says it all. you aren't even reading his posts. So why should your view he is scum hold any weight with me at all? Because silverwolf called him out for things I know as a fact he does when town?

(haven't really changed my mind about the hammer btw. Just bummed that I thought we were about to get a lynch and we aren't.)

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:Oh. Why are we having a 60 hour day?

Thats actually really annoying lol.

It's the weekend; that's how the games went last year even in 36/12 games. Weekends were 60/12.

In that case, I've changed my mind. I want to drop a hammer. I don't want to hang around an extra 24 hours lol.

I was relying on not having to contribute for the next 12 hours, so I'll probably do my best not to.

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:Ika, its as though you are walking into my BTCS and trying to give me Maifa advice without ever having had any Mafia training.

i got 4 years of that golden

Nah, its not like this. It's like the other thing. And please don't change my quotes without acknowledging it.

Its enitrelt like this golden. and i changed it to mafia equivalents. my response was to your orgnial quote in mafia terms

FTR i did mock trial in HS so i do kinda knwo some vauge stuff about legal

No ika, it isn't like that at all.

You are coming in to my house and telling me things I know are wrong. I don't have to know every detail of the law to know your legal advice is wrong. I might not know what the legal advice should be, but I know damn well YOUR legal advice is wrong.

The reasons silverwolf suspected MP were bullshit. Your reasons for suspecting him are also bullshit. You don't know what you are doing or what you are talking about. And trying to make it about 'mafia experience' is not going to help, because it's not MAFIA EXPERIENCE you are refusing to listen to. It's personal, one on one, experience and knowing a friend. The kind I'd listen to if it were you and silverwolf talking about each other.

Oh. Why are we having a 60 hour day?

Thats actually really annoying lol.

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:Ika, its as though you are walking into my BTCS and trying to give me Maifa advice without ever having had any Mafia training.

i got 4 years of that golden

Nah, its not like this. It's like the other thing. And please don't change my quotes without acknowledging it.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I've gotten sidetracked and not really started the MM interaction yet. I still hope to get the rest of these done tonight, but we'll see.

56 minutes.

What, why 56 minutes?

Am I wrong?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I've gotten sidetracked and not really started the MM interaction yet. I still hope to get the rest of these done tonight, but we'll see.

56 minutes.

Ika, its as though you are walking into my office and trying to give me legal advice without ever having had any legal training.

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:He's been using rl? Whats he doing with 600 posts then?

filler and trying to look town to fool you? he has been bring up RL a lot, im not saying "OMG HES NOT POSTING HES SUING RL" but he has mentioned rl a lot

LOL, you think I've been posting filler?

Okay then.

yup, you have not really given me any TLDR stuff so i didnt even read it

He's been using rl? Whats he doing with 600 posts then?

And trust me, him fooling me will be far more satisfying to him, than me sabotaging my champs game with a stupid sig, in any event. It's kind of unthoughtful that you would want me to do that in the champs game.

ika, if anyone ever thinks I'm tunnelling, they are most probably wrong. RM golden tunnelled. It wasn't a good thing to do, and that's old me. I'm not 'tunnelled' on MP being town.

My read on MP as very strong town is not going to change because there is a chance I could be wrong. Of course there is a chance I could be wrong, otherwise I would have said 'I am certain' not 'I am as certain as I could be without any info to go on'.

I am constantly reevaluating. Everything MP is doing in this game is furthering my view that he is town, he is putting in ridiculous amounts of efort that he would not do when scum. If he was scum, he would hide behind rl just a little bit more (and he could do that so easily and jusifiably). It's basically as obvious as it could ever be that MP is town. The fact you refuse to see it says a lot more about you than it says about how him.

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:No, I'm not going to take a bet, ika. It's the kind of thing I'll consider in the early game, but not in the late game where it could end up affecting who gets lynched.

It's sufficient that after the game one of us will be right and the other wrong.

no its not, if your not willing to eevr consdier MP scum you should have no quralles to taking the bet. i doubt its going to affect the lynch either

Well, you can live with your perspective and I will live with mine.

I'm not interested in a bet about my signature in my champs game, no matter who is proposing it, over what thing, for whatever reason. Nada.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Also ladies and gents... I was just forcefully ejected from 3 other games I was in... If you were wondering why I was around more often

'What! Why?Y

Linki: I nominate Matt, no question

My vote is Matt too! Sorry Ika!

No, I'm not going to take a bet, ika. It's the kind of thing I'll consider in the early game, but not in the late game where it could end up affecting who gets lynched.

It's sufficient that after the game one of us will be right and the other wrong.

Same question to anyone really.

Who would you feel better not having to have their game approach around tomorrow MP - Wilgy or zebra? Who do you think is doing more harm to town chances?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:A quick iso of sig does leave him IAWY teammate compatible for sure. I can at least see why people would genuinely be suspicious of him.

I need to dig deeper, but yeah, based on what I recall and what Scotty pulled up, I agree. I just think it's more likely we're seeing town sig defending the wrong player than a sloppy defense from a mafia sig.

I think so - I just really skim read his iso but it made me feel pretty good about sig/zebra not being a team, and about my sig town read. There is a lot in there that really genuinely feels like he is trying to solve and open to other perspectives.

A quick iso of sig does leave him IAWY teammate compatible for sure. I can at least see why people would genuinely be suspicious of him.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:Sig has pretty consistently been after zebra since day one. If it's distance, it's an ocean, and it's a good play...

It's not something I'd put past either of them though.

No, indeed not. Sig would have to be on it from before they were talking as a team. It's not impossible, but it's not what I think is actually happening.

I'm open to a zebra lynch but it makes me more paranoid than a wilgy lynch.

Sig has pretty consistently been after zebra since day one. If it's distance, it's an ocean, and it's a good play...

The only reason I'm not voting zebra is tinfoiling a wilgy/sig team tbh.

Am I wrong to tinfoil this? Is there any reason I can put this idea to rest?

Because I'd be open to a zebra lynch if I wasn't paranoid that sig is pushing it that way to keep wilgy alive.

sig wrote:This is a novel idea but how about we lynch Zebra today? She is interfering with any attempt to scum hunt.

Why do you seem so unwilling to consider a Wilgy lynch?

Zebra, why do you think fucking with us is a good plan?

Well, I mean, zebra could easily just shift back...

I guess at this point it is tricky either way. An ideal move might be for soneji to also unvote - if you are there soneji!

I'd rather see the hammer go down on wilgy than scotty, though.

Time to move your vote back to wilgy, MP. Don't lose sight of zebra's vote shifts.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:
All things considered, I lean ika as third, although it is by such a small margin over others. I don't deeply suspect ika. I think ika has raised good points (like his point on sig, which I did think about, but in the end it simply didn't convince me sig was bad). But, there have been some challenges put to ika that I don't think he has handled so well... like, for instance, why he would take silverwolf's perspective on MP over other people who have actually played with MP. I think silverwolf has already proven to be an insightful player and I completely understand trusting her reads (I somewhat do already) - but there is still an extent to which listening to and taking on board those who know better is what someone would do. Ultimately, ika third over someone like scotty is also probably just as much about 'who would I feel ok being with at lylo'

Simple on why, i trust silver over anyone else. when it comes to mafia her intuition on finding scum is better then any i have encountered.

gold how come after all this time MP isnt dead? how come you still treat him as town too? didnt you say yourself that your constantly reevaluating the situation? how come you have not even batted an eye at MP even after silvers death?

The tinfoil argument? Fun. WIFOM.

Not that meaningful, though, when you look at the actual victims who have been basically strong town reads.

Interesting. I had 4 last, I think. But we both have F first.

@ika - how do you feel about wilgy, independent of whatever else is going on?

@ika - simple. I am as certain as I can be that MP is town without having a role that I can use to confirm it with info. If MP is scum he is playing the best scum game I've ever seen him play by a considerable margin.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I would lynch Wilgy first, but I'd be fine lynching either. I do think that mafia has not been paying as much attention to the thread as I would have expected, based on the nightkill choices. If you or Golden were mafia, I think we would have seen at least one power role for the civilians dead by now.

I completely agree with this. It also has been part of what is feeding in. Mind you, zebra I think is paying attention to the thread and is choosing a wifom strategy, whatever her alignment. Wilgy doesn't seem to be paying attention so much. Psi obviously wasn't... so maybe I should be suspecting Scotty more.

What did you think about my ideas on which set up look most likely? I feel like mafia role cop seems less likely right now.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Golden, who are the top 3 players you'd like to lynch today and why? I know you've talked about this to some degree already, but I think it's worth discussing nonetheless.

Hmm, the third is a challenge.

Wilgy is top, because he basically fits into any team I conceive of, and he has done nothing to contribute as town. He manages to combine being my top scum read with being the person I'd least like to still have to deal with at lylo. A wilgy lynch is a very easy call for me. I wish I'd gone that way yesterday (when I went to bed with my vote on Matt/sloonei I was thinking that night about whether I'd stay on sloonei or switch to wilgy - I think it probably ultimately would have stayed at sloonei but marco's points really were hitting home.)

Zebra is second. I don't really understand what is going on with zebra this game, but her behaviour does not feel like it is coming from a town-mindset. I think perhaps I genuinely upset her on day two and that has affected her approach to the game, I don't know. Sometimes it feels that way. However, after briefly seeing a little bit of genuine town mindset towards end of day one/start of day two there has been nothing else that suggests that to me. As with wilgy, I would not want to be with zebra at lylo.

I've already been pretty clear that I'd like one of these to be lynched today and the other to be sniped by the town vigilante tonight, and I hope that works out. If they are both bad, we'd have 6 or 7 left with 1 scum which would be more favourable. If both are town, I'll be gobsmacked. I could see either being bad without the other, although if I were told only one of them is bad I would lean Wilgy over zebra.

All things considered, I lean ika as third, although it is by such a small margin over others. I don't deeply suspect ika. I think ika has raised good points (like his point on sig, which I did think about, but in the end it simply didn't convince me sig was bad). But, there have been some challenges put to ika that I don't think he has handled so well... like, for instance, why he would take silverwolf's perspective on MP over other people who have actually played with MP. I think silverwolf has already proven to be an insightful player and I completely understand trusting her reads (I somewhat do already) - but there is still an extent to which listening to and taking on board those who know better is what someone would do. Ultimately, ika third over someone like scotty is also probably just as much about 'who would I feel ok being with at lylo'

MovingPictures07 wrote:In fact... UNVOTE

Just so no one comes in here and hammers this thing. I still support a DrWilgy lynch, but I'd like to gather more information.

I think this is wise. No reason not to use our time up.

I nearly swapped my vote to zebra for the same reason. But in the end I'm confident with you and me on there that if the baddies wanted to put the hammer down on Wilgy, they could have by now.

Well, MP, a bad wilgy flip would probably help with a large percentage of your concerns around my interactions with IAWY, too.

I think there is one thing in your analysis I slightly disagree with, though, is that on day one I voted IAWY in response to silverwolf expressing a strong desire to do so.

As you'll see, that was a response to me specifically asking her if she was willing to vote that way, and that was because I was looking for common ground - I wanted to vote IAWY. And, in fact, the reason I was looking for common ground was to get votes off MP, because I didn't want to shift my vote and leave MP vulnerable, as I read him town.

Quote below for evidence.

Scotty wrote:

Golden wrote:Wilgy vs Scotty. Phew. This is more like it!

The war to end all wars. The doctor vs the mechanic. One comes from humble beginnings, one comes from a place of lies.

I'm an actor, Jim, not a mechanic!

a2thezebra wrote:

Doesn't phase me. I can still see a world in which Wilgy is bad and you are good. I just really don't think Wilgy is town.

But, why do you like it?

Wilgy vs Scotty. Phew. This is more like it!

Also

a2thezebra wrote:I recommend a sig, Soneji, or Golden lynch. Anything else would be very bad news for town.

This would literally only be true if you had called out the entire scum team, which you haven't. I guess there is at least a little doubt in my mind on sig and soneji (as opposed to no doubt with MP) but I'd have them both at at least moderate town. I find it difficult to understand how we could see the game so entirely and fundemantally differently from start to finish

There's been lots of fishy things with you, the only strong stands you seem to take in this game are ones that seem fundamentally lacking in basis. Things like not lynching low posters (would make sense if Frog had called out 2 or 3 of your team successfully).

Things like you saying 'don't lynch IAWY or Wilgy'

You've had a style in this game that I am beginning to think is deliberately gaming wifom - "I would never be so overt if they were my teammates" kind of wifom. And I don't blame you if this is true, because it is exactly the kind of wifom that could work very well. I even do have doubts right now that you and wilgy are a team. There is a part of me that thinks you are using wilgy as a crutch to make yourself look good after his flip. But, I feel wilgy is most likely to be bad full stop. Look, even sig seems more loathe to lynch him than you... so even if SIG is bad, I'd be pegging wilgy as his teammate. Wilgy looks to me to be bad no matter what combination of people are bad, and thats the kind of thing I'm looking for.

Your willingness to die instead of MP would make sense if you are mafia, too. Taking MP down behind you, and all that. It would be smart.

A lot of your actions throughout the game, as genuine and town aligned as they seemed to me at the time, all feel like they also fit well in a world where you are scum.

a2thezebra wrote:What makes you assume that I can do it myself? That's an anti-town mindset, you're tunneling me pretty hard.

Come off it zebra, when you were tunnelling me hard. You've never stopped since. And you're still just as wrong as you were when you started.

Today is the first day that I've had any genuine suspicion of you, and your choice to hammer yesterday and so overtly propose it again today does look like a scum mindset to me. The last hammer was a failure. I feel very sure a sig hammer will be too.

I've not experienced such a closed minded zebra before. Not as any alignment. I've no idea why you are busy defending Wilgy, but it's not because of any tpr, none make sense for that.

a2thezebra wrote:I recommend a sig, Soneji, or Golden lynch. Anything else would be very bad news for town.

I recommend that listening to you ends the towns game. Even if you are town.

a2thezebra wrote:We should hammer sig tomorrow.

We should not hammer sig tomorrow. Anyone who says we should is probably scum. If you want dig dead do it yourself.

My guess is two scum are on dig wagon, so even one single extra town vote would enable the hammer. No one fall for this, please!

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Golden.

Would I lie to you?

Yes

No I wouldn't :P

you are fun to play with Wilgy.

But, you haven't had a red peek on Soneji.

I don't know if Soneji was fully aware of that when I stated it though. How do you read his response?

Which response do you mean specifically? I don't see anything suspicious in my quick look back, but I don't have a clear idea what you saw to be suspicious.

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Golden.

Would I lie to you?

Yes

No I wouldn't :P

you are fun to play with Wilgy.

But, you haven't had a red peek on Soneji.

DrWilgy wrote:Golden.

Would I lie to you?

Yes

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Golden wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:If it makes you feel better bout me, IAWY voted me on several occasions. Wasn't paying too much attention to how long it lasted though.

Surprised that we haven't lynched Ji-San yet.

I'm not sure how that makes me feel about you.

It might make me feel better about you if you please explain your reads. Why is Soneji worth lynching?

RED check

As already pointed out, every one of us knows that ALL worlds with town alignment checks is are gone.

You aren't going to convince anyone with the idea you have had a red check.

As if it wasn't sufficient enough that you call me out as your top suspect from day one, but apparently have never stopped seeing me as bad, which is also enough for me to know you are definitely NOT a doctor cop.

fixed

fixed