The Syndicate

I see I already have four votes.

I suggest to all of the town that they reconsider a vote for me very strongly. If I die, you will be losing one of the most important roles you have.

The case on me is terrible anyway, everyone virtually admits that I wouldn't have been so obvious about being a teammate of sloonei. So why are you all voting for me? It's because once again I'm the easy vote.

But I will reinforce this. If you are town and want to win, I am the stupid vote.

At this stage, there is literally no point me defending any further, so I'll make my legacy post now, but I'll still be back later in case I can use my vote self-defensively.

1) I think it's worth people sharing whether Dr Manhattan's lab got anyone else info other than MM. Is espers lying? Is MM lying?
2) The approach DDL has taken in going after me very much makes me think of my Guess Who teammate, and not econ civ DDL. Even his last post where he talks about me 'slipping'. What would be the slip I made, exactly? The Occam's Razor comment - you really think Occam's Razor is that a teammate would be so blatantly defensive? Nothing in anyone's mafia history that is playing would suggest that is the most likely explanation here.
3) I feel pretty good about Elo, MP, MM, LC.
4) Cookie, you are doing just fine I' glad you are playing.
5) Don't forget about LoRab, everyone. Don't forget Timmer's play as Deborah either. Oh, and remember to read every post he rights as though he was Sadness from Inside Out. It makes them more epic.

Long Con wrote:

Golden wrote:I'm guessing epi didn't allow self-targetting for that role.

I'm guessing he did allow it. Should we... should we ask him?

I'm clearly most likely going to have to use my vote self-defensively today.

It's a burden that any of the four of us are likely to bear.

I think asking him might be a good idea. Should you do it, or shall I?

Because Bass didn't raise it, and bass wasn't around much in the days I was thinking of where people used to phrase things deliberately to be able to be lie detected. Essentially, because I think LoRab ought to have known better, but I don't really know if Bass should have.

I don't think Scotty was the Comedian. But I guess it isn't out of the question, if he felt he was a candidate for lynch tomorrow. I'm guessing epi didn't allow self-targetting for that role.

I'm clearly most likely going to have to use my vote self-defensively today.

Well, I had a new suspect I was going to fly in here with, but there is no point now that I see the poll.

Unfortunately, I haven't had any bad vibes from any of these players. I know I would not be a good choice for a lynch.

Guess I'm going to have to read the others back.

LoRab wrote:RIPIYWG Scotty and Llama.

Golden wrote:I think the Comedian should have bided his time a little. I don't really think Scotty was bad.

Unless he is llama, in which case I understand.

I hope llama was Moloch

Although why would the Comedian care? The Watchmen seem, to me, to be more indy than civie. But that's just my read.

Would anyone want to revenge kill Scotty from another game? Or set someone up to seem like a revenge kill? My initial thought on the kill choice.

Epignosis has already confirmed in the thread that the Watchmen are civilian and can't win with mafia. Their win cons are additional.

I think the Comedian should have bided his time a little. I don't really think Scotty was bad.

Unless he is llama, in which case I understand.

I hope llama was Moloch

Golden wrote:One of the biggest pings I had yesterday was when MP called ninja the easy vote.

Perhaps I didn't phrase this clearly enough - I said one of the biggest pings I had YESTERDAY. I didn't just mean temporally. I meant that it was no longer relevant. But - I don't like that DDL took the words you said and turned them into a gospel truth for explaining my motives, which were also essentially a theory about how my brain might have been working yesterday.

MovingPictures07 wrote:You didn't even say how my viewpoint makes me mafia, or why it heavily pinged you, you just are explaining that you disagree. Civilians disagree with each other all the time. What possible mafia agenda would I have in saying such a statement, knowing Sloonei was mafia? That's what I don't get.

It pinged me at the time you said it. I didn't know sloonei was bad then, I thought ninja was.

Because of all people I think you know that the day one easy targets for people to bandwagon on to are the vocal ones, not the ones who haven't said much. You've experienced it yourself many times, as I have. It's much harder to justify a vote for a low poster, especially if you are mafia wanting to avoid suspicion and want your justification to be as reasonable as possible.

G-Man and sloonei were definitely the two people I would have described as the easy votes. Not ninja.

Scotty wrote:I want to hear from:
Golden on his name being brought up by GMan and others.

It is inevitable that I take suspicion today. If I was anyone else, I would be grilling me too. I defended sloonei, and voted ninja at a time that tied up the vote. So I don't blame anyone for it.

I am, however, not bad. And I'm also not 'mixing up my baddie game' by obviously defending my baddie teammates instead of throwing them under the bus.

Scotty wrote:She broke the tie off ninja. THAT is not something I would see mafia doing.

I don't see eloh as bad, and I don't think she would do this.

BUT

Bass did exactly this in economics, so it can't be ruled out.

I still tend to think vote analysis is fairly reliable and this lynch gives us a very good vote to analyse.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Otherwise, he might have waited till day 2 so ninja could post more and he could try to develop his case on her.

I answered that when MP suggested it the first time - leaving people till the next day so they can 'post more' just encourages baddies not to post. I absolutely do not subscribe to this as a good civilian mindset.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Even if he was indeed busy, it's weird that was still really active 90 minutes before the end of the phase, had not voted ninja at that point despite having suspected her for the whole day, and then only voted at a crucial moment of the poll. If he knew he would be busy irl, he could have voted ninja early.

I don't like to vote early when I'm not 100% sure, especially in early days like day 1. I knew I had a meeting, and I knew that meeting went for around an hour, and that I would be back in time to vote.

What I did not expect was the implication that meeting would have on what I had to achieve immediately after it, and it became immediately apparent all I could do was jump on, vote, and get off until later.

Simple reality - what I'm working on at the moment is a very important, politically critical matter that has very short statutory timeframes associated with it, and for at least the next two weeks I can't move my calendar around to suit mafia deadlines as much as I usually manage to do. I don't use RL to hide behind. Ever.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I said before I thought the ninja bandwagon was forced, and I still do.

What bandwagon?

There were literally three people who voted that way - one was our known baddie.

One of the biggest pings I had yesterday was when MP called ninja the easy vote. What????? People like Ninja are NEVER the easy vote. People like me are the easy vote. People like sloonei, like llama, like epi... people like ninja do not get lynched on day one very often at all, and its certainly not an easy vote.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: Here's the thing: i like to discuss strategy and roles. It's my thing. I love role madness games because of that, so I can strategize with abilities and roles. As soon as the game began I started looking at the Watchmen roles to figure out how they'd play and I just waiting for an opportuniry to post my conclusions.

I know that isn't particulary relevant to the hunting of baddies at this point of the game, but I don't see why every post I make should be relevant to that. It's not like it was the only thing I said in the game. Fluffing is okay as long as it isn't the only thing you do.

I agree with DDL's view here. I think espers perspective may be culture shock - he is used to closed setup. In an open setup, people aren't going to be claiming roles, and it is often useful to the civilians to discuss and analyse roles and how they might be used - it can help make sense of what is happening in the game.

Long Con wrote:

Golden wrote:Well, I read Sloonei's responses to you differently than you did. I'm not sure which of us is wrong. I thought he was saying it was you he found suspicious in BoB, but he hasn't been able to determine whether or not it is relevant because Epi 2.0 is still alive and we don't know his role.

At this point, I'd say I'm highly likely to vote for Ninja today. The only other real issue I have is with G-Man, and I think I've talked myself out of that. I need to revisit the LoRab stuff about lie detectors more closely before I pursue that.

Golden pings me here, equivocating on Sloonei, and then pushing three other suspects. G-Man could be a Sloonei teammate based on this post.

That bit wasn't even about whether or not sloonei was suspicious. It was just MP saying 'we agree on everything' and me pointing out one thing we didn't agere on.

Later on, I was very clear that I didn't find sloonei suspicious, so my vote also looks bad. But I just didn't find him bad. It's pretty much the same kind of badness that I would have looked in Bullets over Broadway had you ended up getting lynched on day one. I'd spent that whole first day saying how I didn't find the case on you persuasive as well. I'm just not very persuaded by cases about adverbs, the word 'interesting', smilies etc. Maybe if I'd had an extra day I might have come around on sloonei. I just don't know, it's impossible to say these things in hindsight when you already know he is bad and it would be wifom anyway.

(However - it is abundantly clear, in case anyone didn't realise it, that this is not actually why llama voted sloonei or why sloonei got caught. It was his reaction to it that nabbed him.)

G-Man wrote:Good morning. Sorry for missing the vote. Work was a nightmare yesterday. (For the record, I worked up to 7:00 last night, came home to mow the lawn while I still had light, ate a quick dinner, and went back to the office until 11:00.)

That's even shitter than me. I only worked until 10. Although admittedly I didn't mow the lawn.

Long Con wrote:I think Bass and Lorab (opinion stands as I read, maybe more will step up) are a bit suspicious for saying they think G-Man was trying to dance around the Lie Detector. His statement, in my opinion, is totally kosher as an easy Lie Detect option. If he's a baddie, then a Lie Detect will catch him for that statement, plain and simple.

That's exactly what I think, LC. The wording G-Man used could hardly be considered to be an attempt to avoid the lie detector. Even if it was, the alternative (saying I'm a civilian) also would avoid the lie detector. So I had difficulty really understanding what LoRab was getting at there (bass I felt less suspicious of).

Scotty wrote:That's like soliciting prostitution, and her telling you it's free of charge, plus she has other gifts to offer. And you're thinking 'Jackpot!' But the gift turns out to be crabs

Is this the best description of MM's play style ever?

Catching up now. So far, I have found Scotty's responses to MP to be very genuine and measured, and I don't agree with the suspicion.

I see I have to read back on Scotty.

I'm working my way through now.

If I'd been able to catch up with the thread before voting, I would not have voted Ninja. Her subsequent posts were pretty good looking.

I probably still would not have voted Sloonei, although the stuff started by llama about how sloonei reacted to the case on him, and where even llama admitted the original case was silly, really did go back to my Aces in RR thing, and I appreciate llama successfully catching a baddie in that way.

With that said, at the point I'm up to now I think that my vote may have gone to timmer, the point of his approach to the game when deborah is something that rang true to me (I had forgotten timmer was deb).

thellama73 wrote:Sometimes I can't believe how supatown I am. Boosh!

That makes two of us.

Good job, llama (and others). I'm a big fan of supatown llama.

Completely frantic at work.

Haven't caught up on thread since I last posted. Haven't even looked at poll situation. Voted Ninja. Will we back in about two hours.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I really want to hear from Ninja again before even considering a vote in her direction, and I think anyone else that can wait to vote should do the same.

Rico, thanks for your answers; they are appreciated.

I won't do the same. I would prefer to hear from Ninja again. Setting such an ultimatum, though, is a great way for a baddie to simply say nothing again and not get lynched.

Ricochet wrote:

Golden wrote:Also, I have literally zero suspicion of sloonei. I do not yet see any reason to think he is bad and I have not really agreed with any of the cases on him. I think he is the person who looks most at risk of suffering my econ day one fate - someone that no baddie is going to be sad to see lynched because he can be a threat to their chances of success later on. I'm much more wary of those who have simply jumped on the 'sloonei looks bad' bandwagon than I am of sloonei.

That includes Elo, though.

It does. And I recognise this. If Elo had not brought fresh thoughts to the table in the same post that she jumped on others suspicions, I'd be feeling differently about her right now.

Also, I have literally zero suspicion of sloonei. I do not yet see any reason to think he is bad and I have not really agreed with any of the cases on him. I think he is the person who looks most at risk of suffering my econ day one fate - someone that no baddie is going to be sad to see lynched because he can be a threat to their chances of success later on. I'm much more wary of those who have simply jumped on the 'sloonei looks bad' bandwagon than I am of sloonei.

Well, I read Sloonei's responses to you differently than you did. I'm not sure which of us is wrong. I thought he was saying it was you he found suspicious in BoB, but he hasn't been able to determine whether or not it is relevant because Epi 2.0 is still alive and we don't know his role.

At this point, I'd say I'm highly likely to vote for Ninja today. The only other real issue I have is with G-Man, and I think I've talked myself out of that. I need to revisit the LoRab stuff about lie detectors more closely before I pursue that.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not 'around' - I am exceedingly busy at work. I'm just catching up in any spare moment. But feel free to ask me questions, just don't expect a nice bouncy surface.

OK, at this point I will say what I think.

I think Elo's read on DDL was genuine, and it makes me feel good about her.

DDL expressed in our chat room that he found being mafia difficult, particularly on this site, and we all essentially agreed that he was getting caught and looked bad because you could sense he wasn't as comfortable in the thread. Elo is aware of this because she was in that chat room.

From my perspective, her reading DDL as good because he seems comfortable is legit, based on how things went down in Guess Who.

That doesn't mean DDL is good, of course, but I do think Elo's read was legitimate and it made me feel good about her.

Ricochet wrote:

Golden wrote:OK, so, here is my question in relation to people's Elo suspicion.

Do people agree, or disagree, with her assertion that DDL seems comfortable?

I can't say I understood too well what she meant by "comfortable", not to mention "too comfortable to be Mafia". Is it what Scotty said, i.e. laidback and responding with ease to heat?

Just your gut instinct would be fine - does DDL seem comfortable to YOU, as opposed to defining what Elo means.

OK, so, here is my question in relation to people's Elo suspicion.

Do people agree, or disagree, with her assertion that DDL seems comfortable?

I wonder what llama would have to say about all those smilies.

Golden wrote:Yeah. Bass wasn't around back then, but I'm pretty sure LoRab was, and the entire exchange has given me a bit of a ping on lorab too.

Not nearly so big as my ping on ninja though.

If I was voting right now, ninja would likely be my vote.

Ricochet wrote:The wording made me think more of an actual alignment claim slip. I've asked before, what do others think about it?

I think that if it was an intended alignment claim, it wasn't a slip.

Yeah. Bass wasn't around back then, but I'm pretty sure LoRab was, and the entire exchange has given me a bit of a ping on lorab too.

Sloonei wrote:

Golden wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

What do you think of the adverb/smiley line of reasoning, both generally and as it pertains to me this game? What is your read on me right now?

I do not think the adverb/smiley line of reasoning holds any merit as it pertains to you this game.

I don't think the concept has no merit whatsoever, but context and motivation are the most important factors. What is the function of the adverbs? How emotive are the adverbs? Etc...

For example, I found MP using them in Roger Rabbit in what was an effort to sway attention off his own teammate and on to a civilian. I called him out for his use of that kind of language, but I was also able to pin his motivations for the post on him. If I can't see the baddie motivation behind using a whole lot of adverbs, I can't find it suspicious.

I think the biggest strike against the idea is that I've read back enough of my own posts when I'm civilian and they are frequently full of adverbs. Same goes for smilies. And that is because even as a civilian I do try to deliberately set a particular tone (one that won't piss people off).

I'm feeling better about G-Man. Not 100% better, but a fair bit better.

I sort of understood the suspicion around his curiously worded statement, until we started getting into the lie detector stuff. Then I remembered how, back in the STV days, (ah, the STV mafia days) wording statements in that kind of way was completely normal. I had actually completely forgotten how we used to draft everything in such a way that the lie detector might be able to check us out, and because they couldn't check statements like 'i am civilian', you did used to say stuff like 'i am not a threat to the civilians'.

G-Man has been on break since STV days until very recently, so when I thought that through I realised that it would be pretty logical some of his phrasing would show vestiges of the way we used to do things on STV.

thellama73 wrote:Golden: Adverbs, smilies.

Yeah, sorry, was posting as catching up. I see you had already let it be known by that point

nijuukyugou wrote:I've always found the concept of using too many adverbs as a sign of baddiness intriguing. Smileys I understand. I like llama's line of thinking, especially for a Day 1 vote. While Days 1 are some people's favorite hunting days, I hate them with a passion, so sometimes you gotta go with whatever you can without a vote record - silence/hiding, evasiveness, or someone profusely and excessively using adverbs and smileys to a great extent I crack myself up

This. This is what pinged me.

ping on ninja's long post...

Her finding llama's adverb idea 'interesting' and suggesting she might be willing to vote sloonei, that whole latter part of her post felt quite bandwaggony to me and not quite sincere.

thellama73 wrote:and I feel bad about:
Sloonei

What makes you feel bad about sloonei?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:So did anyone get anything from the day zero poll?

I did not.

timmer wrote:@MP, I'm glad you replied to me, as I didn't know that this was a speed game. I would not have joined if I had realized that. I've got friends coming in to visit for 4 days starting tomorrow so my participation is going to suck in the beginning of the game. But, I'm here, I'll try my best.

Timmer, living up to his avatar since July 2015

(I really liked Inside Out, Sadness was awesome.)

Sloonei wrote:also, not that this is relevant to anything, but i invited cookie here as opposed to RYM because i felt weird saying "yeah come sign up for this music cataloging site if you want to play mafia." This place is all about mafia, so it felt more appropriate

You can also talk about music here, if you really want.

Sloonei wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Also, I ain't doing no rainbow list. Fuck that noise.

All your posts had been a breath of fresh air and a reminder of my mafia home, but you ruined that all with this post right here. DharmaHelper you broke my rainbow heart.

DH'd double negative indicates that he is, in fact, going to do a rainbow list.

espers wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

G-Man wrote:for instance, if a talkative player was contributing a lot on Day 1 but says something fishy, isn't there merit in lynching that person over someone who posts little more than "yay game" and "catching up"? I'm not suggesting lynching a "good player" because they are a "good player." What I'm saying is that we shouldn't give "good players" a free pass at all. We shouldn't be afraid to lynch them early- even on Day 1 if there's merit.

IF they say something obviously fishy that can lead to a reasonable lynch.

But on D1, that's incredibly rare, and most votes as based on BS.

And if I am to cast a BS vote, knowing full well I'm probably taking down an innocent civilian, I'd rather have that likely civilian be someone who has a lower chance of helping town winning the game.

It's not about giving good players a free pass. It's about not playing russian roulette with players who are more likely to be good assets. Once we get to D2, when actual data is available and better cases can be made, nobody is getting a free pass.

i don't agree with this. on rym, we've had day 1 mafia lynches in 3 of the last 4 games. from what I've seen it's easier to read mafia players on tone early game, before they've had a chance to settle into the game. it's true that there's nothing hard to go off yet, but that doesn't mean we should settle for a policy lynch. if we approach day 1 like that it'll be a waste.

Espers, I completely agree. Day one is one of my favourite hunting grounds.

G-Man wrote:Golden- any questions for me before I head off for the night?

I just wanted to know how, on a practical level, you were going to unplug.

But no, not particularly. I think you have answered any concerns I have as well as you could have.

Cookie, there is usually no 'no lynch' option here, and missing the vote isn't usually considered an option (see the rules for epi's view on participation).

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Golden wrote:To everyone who needs their gender checked...

There is now a setting where you can set your gender in your user control panel.

How delightful.

It's one of the fewer least invasive forms of gender testing.

To everyone who needs their gender checked...

There is now a setting where you can set your gender in your user control panel.