The Syndicate

thellama73 wrote:So no one else thinks DharmaHelper is a shifty robot but me?

I do, but I also think rey is.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:I'm feeling much more positive today, I've really appreciated posts from people like Sorsha and JJ that have demonstrated that there are people genuinely thinking about and understanding my points about why me being responsible for killing epi makes no sense in the context of my actions before and afterwards.

I'm glad.

This is a great opportunity for you to harness the good vibes and turn the tide against the thread at large. Someone or someones might be exploiting you, and if so you shouldn't let 'em get away with it ever.

I'll put my vote back on rey for now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Golden, if I dedicate some of my Mafia resources to turning a lynch away from you and end up wrong in doing so, then my Syndicate reputation is forever shot.

I guarantee you that, when this game washed up and the hosts set out what occurred, the record will show that on day three golden was neutral.

I'm not-so-secretly hoping one of the civs will recruit me through that contest, though.

Sorsha wrote:Time for me to get ready for work. As of right now I have no idea where my vote will go. I'll try to be back in the morning but if the last two nights are any indication: my job is trying to kill me.

Registering a vote for Sorsha's job

Black Rock wrote:Hey guys. So it turns out I can't fix the poll without deleting the votes so I can either redo the poll at 10pm EST for another 24 hours. I would take a picture and post it at that time or we can continue voting in thread for the remaining of the day period. Thoughts?

My perspective - take a photo, do a new poll for 24 hours. Then anyone who does not vote in the new poll can have their votes in the old poll counted.

I'm feeling much more positive today, I've really appreciated posts from people like Sorsha and JJ that have demonstrated that there are people genuinely thinking about and understanding my points about why me being responsible for killing epi makes no sense in the context of my actions before and afterwards.

Also, the fact that she was responding to a post in which I literally went out of my way to say "This is NOT new info" - because it was not, but it had been buried because people have (in my opinion) not been actually taking into account and considering a lot of the responses I've been making. That one is one of them.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Golden, what is your immediate reaction to LoRab's vote for you and stated reason?

I concur entirely with your view, but feel like a hypocrite for doing so.

Before I voted for myself last night, you will see LoRab just said she found me suspicious (just a few posts beforehand). This is the post that pushed me over the edge into my self-vote. It made me feel as though it is hopeless me saying anything, because no matter what I say people will call me suspicious, and it was that post that made me feel like I would not be able to survive the lynch anyway.

So to have her come back the next day and say she does not think I'm bad, but then vote for me anyway because I am a distraction and having me alive is not in the towns interests... it's just disappointing for me and it's times like this that I feel like it does not matter how many words I use, I cannot get my points across.

LoRab wrote:You're making it increasingly more difficult to not suspect you. No, you're not unrecruitable. And I think the civies would be just as hesitatnt to recuit you as the baddies would be. Actually, I think the baddies would want you more at this stage. And, as the game goes on, nuetrals become more of a threat. We're far from there, but will get there.

And you think Epi wanted to recruit you? That is new info, so to speak, and seems extremely unlikely. And negates your entire idea of the 2 of you never being on the same team. You are starting to grasp at straws and I find it hard to find that as a civ thing to do. I did not suspect you until this post, but the ping has started, and is growing louder.

That was part of her post, but you should find it in her iso and read the whole thing including thread context.

I don't know if it makes lorab bad, but I do think it means she could be a neutral.

I have to say, I expected to wake up this morning and just see everyone going 'ok, I'll vote for golden, no problems'.

I'm surprised at how few people just jumped on me, and it has made me feel a whole lot better. So thank you to all those who haven't taken the easy way out even when I gave you permission to. It's meaningful for me.

S~V~S wrote:

Golden wrote:SVS, the killing of epi derailed the thread. Are you telling me that what has occurred would not be a desirable outcome?

Also, if my goal was to kill epi so as to minimise the amount of attention on me in the thread (which has to be the reason, right?) then why do I immediately go and say something that will inevitably immediately reinvite that attention?

I think that you came out saying the worst possible thing as it would help you wifom your way out of it. I do that ALOT. You're too slick, good or bad, to do something so clumsy without calculation imo.

If I am wrong I am very sorry. But I really don't think I am.

See, the problem I have here SVS is, you have based your case on me about knowing my civilian game so well...

If you know my civilian game so well, here is what you know about me. Please tell me if you perceive any part of this as not true.

1) I will always put the interests of the town first
2) I believe wholeheartedly that complete honesty from the civilians is usually the way to go, although you should keep secrets if saying a particular thing could aid the baddies.
3) I believe that, in particular, if you have been keeping something to yourself for the purpose of making a move, then when the move is complete you tell people that you made it.

A recent example of this in which you did not play was RYM87, a game in which I did take a lot of heat for doing things that I kept being told were anti-town, but the reality is that I knew better and at the end of the game it was clear why I did it.

That's exactly what I've done here. When you say I'm a slick civilian... I just completely disagree. I take heat as a civilian for stupid un-slick things all the time, and the reason that happens is because I am honest about what I'm doing and why and people often like to catch on and attack that. You say you understood why I did what I did in King Arthur and you remember it a lot. Do you also remember that before I made that move, I was under constant amount of suspicion for also being blunt and open about a whole lot of stuff? Do you remember there were some people who were as utterly as determined as you for days beforehand that I was bad, despite the fact I was actually King Arthur? I personally much prefer to go after people I think are lying about their true motives... which is why I went after epi, and also why I went after DH yesterday.

I think you have gotten in your head a single explanation for what has happened, and you are closing your mind to the possibility of what is actually the true explanation here, but I also think if you step back and reanalyse what you know of me, you can see the truth in this.

SVS, the killing of epi derailed the thread. Are you telling me that what has occurred would not be a desirable outcome?

Also, if my goal was to kill epi so as to minimise the amount of attention on me in the thread (which has to be the reason, right?) then why do I immediately go and say something that will inevitably immediately reinvite that attention?

unfurl wrote:You tend to dizzy me out, for how much you talk, and I think you know me enough, that I dont say it in a meaner way
I tend to have more of a crazy theory about you, if you are still alive in a game, and is higher from day 5, and no ones has try to nk you and you have not been lynched, then you probably bad you tend to be more slick as abaddie imho, and you are able to lead lynches in baddies if you are good, thats ort of my parameter when it comes down to you, but it this set up, dont know how is gonna go, need to think about it probably

I do know you well enough for that unfurl.

Plus, I entirely agree with your assessment that I'm more slick as a baddie, its why I'm trying to explain to people that baddie golden would not have said he was trying to bait a baddie team into killing epi. People don't have to buy my wifom, which it definitely is, but I think those who know my baddie game should know that as a baddie I'd be much more likely just to say something like "RIP epi, I think maybe the people who killed him were trying to set me up". Why invent something so convoluted?

Black Rock wrote:

Black Rock wrote:

Official Announcement

All PM's must now be directed to both hosts (the other one being Long Con) as I am leaving for work soon and he will be home.

ALL Leaders please submit a list of three players for options of your first recruit.

There will be 4 by days end. We are just waiting on something before the recruits will be officially told.

You are right, it was day zero. My bad. So your theory about my tone change is completely legitimate.

But the real reason my tone shifted is that when I went toe to toe with epi, it got me thinking about the nature of the game and what it meant to be neutral in a way I hadn't until that point.

I have tried to explain that I've never played a game like this before. I'm not sure that you or some others have recognised that this comes with growing pains and I was thrown into the spotlight very early while I was still figuring the game out (frankly, I still am figuring the game out).

Dom wrote:Golden, where did the hosts indicate that?

I don't know, dom, I didn't go back and check whether it was day zero or day one. I was just posting from what I thought was the case, but you could just as equally be right. I still haven't checked, but I will do so now.

Sorsha wrote:Golden the point I was trying to get was if someone were setting you up who do you think it is?

I think rey is the most likely. Particularly because the starting points for his suspicion against me (especially on day 2) have been a big stretch to see them as legitimate pings, and also because he himself claimed you should be looking at motivations not words/actions to find baddies, but when I ask him to explain why a baddie would say the things he has claimed are suspicious, he has never been able to come up with any explanation (or has chosen not to). I didn't think DH was very likely before yesterday, but the conversation from yesterday has me seeing him as a possibility too. I find it hard to buy that he was legitimately scared of me, but also its just such a strange thing to make a big deal out of. Like, even if I'm so scary, why would I target him specifically? Before he said that, he wasn't even really on my radar.

I have a very specific reason in mind for why I do not think it is SVS, but it isn't out of the question I'm wrong about that.

I do agree with JJ that there it could be in anyone's interests to set me up, but I would be very surprised if at least one member of that team is not one of those pushing for my lynch.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:You guys see that double "honestly" in the first sentence? Even I am embarrassed about that adverb usage.

Using the word 'honestly' is my biggest verbal tic. It's magnified considerably in mafia. I've spent lots of time deleting it in this game, because I'm already taking heat for how honest I'm claiming to be!

Sorsha wrote:I see that golden is heading out and might not be back much but I have a question or two. Anyone else can weigh in on the answer as well. I have been away from mafia for a while and don't know/can't remember all the player dynamics.

First of all I'm of the mind that golden is not on the team that killed epi night one. I know golden still claims responsibility like that team is going to do his bidding for him but I'd think their motive was more to frame him. Anyone in particular come to mind as one who would do that?

My thoughts on the matter is whoever is really hounding golden in the thread did it. But is it a silly question to ask who would set golden up?

I do not think that this team is going to do my bidding for me.

I asked them to kill DH for the lolz, because of how ridiculous it is to presume they would.

(The whole point of saying I was trying to bait an epi kill, to start with, was just me being honest about my intentions - NOT to claim absolute credit that I must have swayed the baddies and to brag about it. I've said this a few times, but I think it gets lost. I wasn't expecting it to definitely work, I just kind of thought it might, and when it did my immediate reaction is to share.)

Dom wrote:How do you know when the recruits happened? I would imagine they happened on Day 0.

I think they happened when the host said they happened. That may have been the end of day zero, I thought it was the end of day one.

Canucklehead wrote:

Golden wrote:Thank you, Scotty. Saves me from getting into another semantics argument.

It's not a semantics argument, Testy Tessa. I honestly do not understand the point you were trying to make. Don't be so fighty all the time, friend! We're not all out to get you.

I'm just disappointed you ignored my bullsuit.

The point I'm trying to make is that if I'm lynched, everyone will see they are wrong about me being bad. I then come into any rezz with a clean sheet. Sure, I might take suspicion of being rezzed by a baddie team, but thats a new fight without the previous accumulated baggage, no-one is going to be claiming I'm bad because of the epi move or because I'm stylistically different from their perceived golden-meta.

Thank you, Scotty. Saves me from getting into another semantics argument.

unfurl wrote:

Golden wrote:Registering a vote for golden

Because I just can't be bothered any more.

Golden, I get the fustration, hey I feel fustrated at some point in every game I have played, and fustration is relative to each player
but I can never understand what drives someone to vote for themself out of it
I prefer to be modkilled if Im not having fun, but votting for myself I dont recall ever done it

There are lots of things in play. If by the time I am heading off to get on a plane, and for whatever reason people have decided not to lynch me, I will switch my vote to someone I legitimately suspect. I made that vote so that people know I'm relaxed, but also because I cannot really fight back today anyway, so I could see myself going down and not being able to do anything about it.

Right now, I feel as though being lynched will take the monkey off my back. I want to be clear though, I'm still playing the game hard. If I get lynched, I will fight for a rez. I want in on this game. I just want to get all the current suspicion out of the way so that if I was to achieve a rezz, people would know when I came back that I wasn't bad.

People are beginning to see some of the suspicion on me for what it is - like llama realising how ludicrous DH's apparent scaredness is etc, which is good. My death would also aid people in taking a good hard look at those who have pushed my lynch so hard and examining whether their motivations are true.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:So hypothetically speaking, Golden, let's say both you and Epig had wound up teammates and you both had knowledge of it. Do you still believe that he would have tried to lynch/kill you?

Not without my consent, epi is not that kind of player. If we were both bad, I think his plan could have been to continue pushing to kill me for the cred, but of course that kind of plan is one that aids us both in getting a win. But I don't think I would have been alive long enough for that to happen.

I see. Rico is silenced.

PPPS Rico - welcome to why I say you will end up with a better record than me. You are a better player than me, dude (and I mean that).

Registering a vote for golden

Because I just can't be bothered any more.

All of those of you who insist I'm bad, I ask only that you remember this game for next time, primarily because I have literally been honest about every single thing, because you have used semantics against me, and because there are a lot of you who think you know me a lot better than you do (and I'd call epi chief among them, but I have to admit I'm surprised at how much SVS has misjudged my motives this game). And most of all because there are a lot of people tunnelling me who are wilfully deaf to all the responses I have given.

I also wish people would think about this, because it's important. I take heat from the start of every single game. So does MP. So does epi, to be fair. At some point, people ought to realise that we are taking heat solely for speaking a lot. If you speak a lot, it's guaranteed you will say something suspicious. The only way you can judge whether or not that suspicion is accurate, though, is to actually listen to people's defenses. There is a lot of evidence from those suspecting me this game that they are ignoring most of what I have to say, most of what MP has to say etc. Sometimes people aren't even secret about it. They skim the high posters. I only take this much heat because I speak a lot. The best reaction I could possibly make to this game to adjust so as to survive is to not be honest. You know what? I could have just lied about the fact I was trying to get the baddies to lynch epi. I didn't need to bring it up. It would have been in MY best interests never to say it. But that's just not what I think is in the towns interests. Being honest is better.

I'm travelling for most of this day anyway, and then I'm on holiday for 11 days, and I have no intention of spending my holiday stressed out defending myself. Good luck. I think the civs will need it.

PS - Rey's suspicion of me is literally bullsuit. When you've seen me flip, take my advice and lynch him next.

(Yes, this is permission for everyone to lynch me. Let me be very clear though, I WILL be playing for rezzes, in fact I'll be working hard for them. Right now, I think being lynched so that you can all see you are wrong is my best outcome, so that I can try and get back into the game with everyone having got this out of their system. Trust me though, when I'm back, if rey is alive he is going down).

PPS - hey, baddie team that killed epi. Fancy a DH kill tonight?

Lorab, I present for you, day 1!

Golden wrote:As for mafia motives, can think of two possibilities. One, he was thinking of recruiting me given we worked well together in Guess Who and creating distance first was a tactic to achieve it. Two, he was not thinking of recruiting me and so why not cast suspicion on me.

I just realised I could have played that scavenger contest. Just found the devil in one of the posts. I had assumed the previous leader names were simply incorporated into the posts, in which case I thought I had no hope! Never mind (this is what happens when you do focus your time on defense).

DrWilgy wrote:torturing my little brother...

Add wilgy to the list of baddies! No civilian team could recruit this maniac!

@scotty, the simple reality is, sometimes all you have time for is to play D. I ought to be posting less. What I am actually going to be doing in this next day is travelling to Australia, so I'm pretty much going to be absent from the thread for the second half of the day period, possibly all the way up until the lynch. There is at least a decent chance that there is really literally nothing I can do to defend myself on this day, so in the time I have left I think it is a really wise thing to do to get my thoughts out there on other stuff.

I have been getting a little bit out, especially around people who I DON'T think seem bad. Maybe I actually should do a rainbow list (I'd put DH at the top for good measure!) But when I'm such a massive topic of focus, often it takes all my attention to those who are interacting with me a lot and I have very little to say on a number of people who aren't (Tranq, Aapje, Lorab, DF for example)

As for who is bad, I'd say rey and bubbles. I don't really know how I would distinguish between recruiter and recruitee, other than how long they have seemed bad I guess.

Here is the thing about the baddie recruiter that killed epi. Their move can play both ways. It could put heat on me, or it might not. It's no skin off their nose either way. But getting me out of the way couldn't hurt. Right now, I'd have rey as my most likely candidate for being the baddie recruiter on that team, for his push for me, then back off, then sudden push again towards the end of the second day when there was actually a legitimate chance of getting me lynched - felt very very off to me. Rey was not over me at all that day, UNTIL I was suddenly within lynchable range, and then he cast the vote that drew me level with bass at that time and was all over me. It felt incredibly disingenuous.

Bubbles - I never can quite tell with her, but I'm beginning to think llama may have been on to something. Her back and forth on who to vote yesterday did not come across as sincere to me. It felt like she wanted to sound civilian and do what she would do if civilian, but she had no compelling reason to actually vote me or bass, and she ended up voting for me despite the fact that she was acknowledging I often take heat early when good for more or less the same reasons. Adding that to the context that bubbles has never been bad before (hence why she might seem a little stilted, it's a new experience being on that side of the fence), and that she flies under the radar, she fits the profile of a recruit.

linki - and I will also vote rey, noting the possibility of a thread lock.

And the epi stuff did make me rethink my entire approach to the game. Before that point, I hadn't thought through the implications of being neutral yet and what my best move would be.

As I said, this is my first game like this, I've never played anything like it before. If you expect me to have figure the ins and outs of what it might mean for how I have to play before I even started playing, well... I just can't live up to that standard.

Dom wrote:I don't understand your change in tone from Day 0 and wanting to find baddies to literally manipulating the thread to kill someone because you didn't want them going after you and you didn't think you'd be not he same team (with extremely flawed logic).

OK, and fair enough. I think I have gotten tangled in trying to explain what I mean by being neutral in the context of playing a game that I think is the same as my civvie-meta, and I can't complain if you feel I've been inconsistent.

As for the first mindset shift, I can say that I absolutely did have a mindset shift, from 'lets find baddies', to 'Gucking hell I can't believe this bullsuit'.



The mindset shift was not because I was suddenly recruited mid-day. In fact, I think that if you read back you will find that the mindset shift happened before anyone was recruited at all.

I do not perceive any of Scotty's posts as suspicious this game.

DharmaHelper wrote:It'd be like putting my name on the top of a rainbow list.

Well I disagree with SVS view that rainbow lists make the slightest bit of difference as to who baddies kill anyway.

Aha, DH brings out honest talk which he has so far very carefully avoided saying.

Being unrecruitable is not a problem. I do think my actions would make it less likely for a baddie to intentionally recruit me. You think I see that as a downside? It gives me more control over my destiny. Also, if I am unrecruitable, I am by definition not a threat. For me it serves two very good purposes off the bat.

I don't think it makes me unrecruitable for the civs, but in any event as long as their are civ contests I will enter them and they might get me anyway. And if they don't get me, I still only have to survive to win. Again, where is the downside?

I did the whole thing in part because I suspected epi was bad AND that he wanted to recruit me, after having thrown sufficient shade at me that it would make the other of us look good should one of us be lynched. (And before anyone goes saying this is new information and why didn't I say it before, when people asked what epi's baddie motivation was for going after me, I already gave that answer, ages ago).

You could have gone in another direction entirely, though, because I did create a much bigger problem for myself - namely, the number of people who want to lynch me.

I honestly have trouble perceiving why anyone would think I was legitimately bad (or at least, legitimately on the team that killed epi). It's like a rinse and repeat of watchmen, where I got lynched essentially for doing something which would have been an obvious thing for a baddie to do. Newsflash - not one of my baddie games has EVER been characterised by that kind of play. I'm amazed at how many people have focussed on my civ-meta (which, as I consistently say, I think I am actually playing to INCLUDING the move on epi) and ignoring entirely my baddie-meta.

So which do I think is more likely? Obviously, I know which is true and my answer is biased. I am neutral and I have no problem staying that way, especially over being recruited bad. I still have to play smart while neutral, because despite best intentions I may be recruited bad. But I think that anyone who knows me should also objectively recognise the second as being more likely, and for that matter anyone who thinks that I actually know how to play the game and wouldn't be stupid enough to do whats its claimed I did - kill epi, and then play some massive wifom when there would have been literally no reason for me to do it.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Golden wrote:Now answer mine.

If it worked once, It could work again. You've already shown you have no problem basically asking the people with the kills to do your dirty work, why would I, how could I in good faith, assume you wouldn't be above doing it twice?

Did you not think you could have lynched Epi? Or were you afraid that having lynched him would have put a nail in your coffin?

OK, so you were scared of me on the offchance that I would pull the same ploy a second time and on the offchance it would work twice (note, even after I had stated I don't think I would possibly be able to replicate it) and on the offchance that if I tried it again I would choose you as the target...

What has 'in good faith' got to do with it?

What I see in your answer to my question is exactly the same as what I thought of your suspicion all along.... you are not particularly scared of me killing you, you just see me, generically, as a threat.

And no, I did not think I could lynch epi (at least not before he lynched me). As I said, when epi has done what he did in this game in the past, it has not worked out well for me. Everything I did to epi was specifically about epi, and the impact he has on games, and I don't think anyone who claims they legitimately think I might do the same to them without any reason to think it is being genuine.

Oh, btw, you didn't actually directly answer my question. I thought I should point that out, since it seemed you had a problem with that when I did it. You've actually been avoiding it all afternoon.

Were you legitimately scared that if I am not on the team that killed epi, I could say 'kill DH for me', and they will?

Now answer mine.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Golden wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Golden wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Do you think I am in control of a nightkill?

I'm not sure how this question is relevant.

You do not think whether or not you believe I have a nightkill is relevant to the question of whether or not you are legitimately scared of me killing you?

You either do, and will eventually try and kill me, or you don't, and you'll put another hit out on me, or you'll get recruited to someone with a kill, and probably want to kill me. There are several possiblities that would lead to you being "responsible" for my death.

So you are legitimately scared that if I am not on the team that killed epi, I could say 'kill DH for me', and they will?

Were you legitimately scared that if you didn't put the hit out on Epi he would have A) Not ended up on your team eventually and B) Killed you.

A - yes. B - no (why would you NK someone you think you can lynch), but he would have been a threat to me, because he would have been pursuing my lynch.

Is the day actually ending in only 24 hours?

DharmaHelper wrote:

Golden wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Do you think I am in control of a nightkill?

I'm not sure how this question is relevant.

You do not think whether or not you believe I have a nightkill is relevant to the question of whether or not you are legitimately scared of me killing you?

You either do, and will eventually try and kill me, or you don't, and you'll put another hit out on me, or you'll get recruited to someone with a kill, and probably want to kill me. There are several possiblities that would lead to you being "responsible" for my death.

So you are legitimately scared that if I am not on the team that killed epi, I could say 'kill DH for me', and they will?

DharmaHelper wrote:

Do you think I am in control of a nightkill?

I'm not sure how this question is relevant.

You do not think whether or not you believe I have a nightkill is relevant to the question of whether or not you are legitimately scared of me killing you?

DharmaHelper wrote:Why would you be a threat if you weren't eventually going to kill me?

Instead of you asking me the same question again and again and me getting increasingly frustrated with your answers, why don't you answer this simple question.

Do you think I am in control of a nightkill?

DharmaHelper wrote:

Golden wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:You didn't even answer my question.

Yes I did. That's what the third paragraph is for.

Doesn't address the discrepancy in those quotes I mentioned.

I think it does. I don't think I understand what else you want me to say.

I do not think you thought I was about to kill you (ie 'were scared'). I think you just voted for me because you thought it was in your interests as a neutral player (ie 'I was a threat').

DharmaHelper wrote:You didn't even answer my question.

Yes I did. That's what the third paragraph is for.

DharmaHelper wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Golden wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

DH: I think is playing a neutral game and was happy to vote for me a threat. I've no problem seeing that as genuine.

DH - I don't buy that you are scared for a second. It's just more bullshit. If I successfully baited an epi kill, there is no way I succeed in doing that twice.

Lets play Which One of These Did Golden Say?

If you guessed both, you are correct.

I don't think you are scared that I am going to get you killed, which is what you claimed. I have no problem believing you simply have no qualms getting me out because you see me as a threat. Those are two different things.

What is the difference between seeing you as a threat and being afraid of you leading to my death? Do you think I am threatened that you might hug me too hard?

I'm getting to this, I really don't think you need to post it twice within a short period of time. Reminds me of LC who accused me of being bad in BoB because I didn't respond to him within 19 minutes.

I think you are playing a neutral game and you don't have any problem with getting rid of me because you know I will also play the game hard, and the epi death stuff is a convenient example of how I will do this. I don't think you felt any imminent threat to your life in the game.

Imagine this scenario - you are unable to be nightkilled or lynched but you die and lose if the rest of your team dies. You might perceive me as a threat to your chances of winning, despite knowing I wasn't going to be able to kill you.

If you are claiming that you legitimately think I might have been about to kill you, even though I had expressed hardly any suspicion on you and wasn't interested in you at all, on the basis of my epi stuff - well, I would find that to be incredibly disingenuous and my opinion of your vote for me would change considerably.

Also, RIP G-Man, I'm sorry to lose you, even though I know you need to focus on baby.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: What I find dubious, llama, is that you don't seem willing to grant that what I was doing was directly relevant to "detecting bad guys". I wasn't forcing Bass to "dance for my amusement" at all.

There are lots of things you coul have asked Bass. I don't think demanding reads on random people was productive at all. It just seemed mean.

I certainly didn't intend to be mean. I intended to generate meaningful information to further my own understanding of Bass. Bass, if you found my behavior distasteful then I apologize for that.

Did anyone else feel that way? I ask because if this perspective is a trend then I'll need to reassess my approach. I don't want to baddie hunt so hard that I become a jerk.

I disagree with the idea that it was mean entirely.

Can I see that it could be reasonably perceived as uniquely targeted and so a manipulative move from a baddie? Yes. (I don't think it was, but I can understand that perspective). But that doesn't make it mean to do it.

@rey - the ultimate reason you said you voted for me was that you found me not to be genuine, I understand that and yes I found that to make sense at that time. But after day two where you found a similarly obscure reason to come back to suspecting me, my perspective on your behaviour both days has changed.

thellama73 wrote:

Golden wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Observation 5: re: Golden. His whole "I got Epi killed" thing is super shady, and seems like just the kind of thing he could pull off. If true, I would hate to see him get away with it, if only for the precedent it sets.

Could you explain this a bit better? Particularly, what does 'getting away with it' look like and what is the 'bad precedent it sets'.

I have always had big schemes. Sometimes they work and sometimes they backfire. This one might have done both (King Arthur did both too).

I think it's fairly self-explanatory. If in fact you killed Epi, and then came into the thread and said "I got Epi killed" and nobody lynched you for it, that would be upsetting to me. It would be an invitation for others to try the same trick in the future. Bad medicine.

I agree. Sorry, it wasn't self-explanatory to me, because I wasn't sure if you meant that (SVS view of what she thinks I did) or if you meant what I actually did do, which does not include actually killing epi.