The Syndicate

Zexy wrote:Not sure I can see what LC's slip is.

No clue what IIoA is and why it's not a good alignment tell anymore (or why it was before)

IIoA is, like, answering the questions of people who are trying to figure out mechanics, for instance. Or, in a themed game, a good example would be giving information about the theme in case it helps make better in-game decisions.

Sometimes it is perceived as someone trying to look town and people get accused of being scum for doing it. Or they actually get town points for doing it. When, truthfully, everyone is equally likely to do these things.

OK, fair enough. I believe its possible because I know people for whom it is possible. Day zero is probably my best day in terms of accurate reads, too.

Leaving vote on your for now, but it's a mild read. It's unlikely to stay there, at very least unless there were new reasons come up.

Oh but you didn't defend sig zexy. That's my point. You only criticised sloonei.

I didn't mean 'reading sig off', I meant 'reading sig from so little information'. I've seen people who can regularly make successful day 0 scum reads on less.

Dyslexicon wrote:Also, do you guys use countdown timers here, or do we have to memorize when day ends? (Cause I'm totes lazy like that).

Can we talk about Long con's possible mindslip that I pointed out in my catchup somewhere? Is it a thing, or not a thing? Is it the tooth fairy, perhaps?

On this site, the poll normally states when it ends. Unfortunately, it can only be set to days not hours, so it won't work well for games which aren't happening in groups of 24.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Golden wrote:I gut read this as being both a attempt to get sloonei to back off sig, but also a justification to scumread sloonei if he doesn't back off sig.

Oh it was from the same thing. I see. Don't know if I agree. Zexy is pretty null to me anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, it hinges on Zexy being bad. I don't expect people to blindly agree about that. But I feel pretty solid that if Zexy is bad, sloonei is not. That didn't have any impact as a distancing post.

Dyslexicon wrote:Lol, who doesn't love a big grumpy cat?

Anyway, Golden can you talk more about the if Zexy is scum Sloonei is town thing? (I got the sig as scum)

This post

Zexy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:You are right. A lot more is going to happen. But that more has not happened yet, so for now I have to work with what I have. What do you think of sig and I? Your last post didn't really give a stance either way.

If anything, the fact you are trying to read someone on this little could be scum trying to slowly and steadily justify a scumread on a townie.
I don't have too much of a stance yet, my posts are also there so you two react to them and they can help me read you through that. You are more defensive than sig which is also slightly scummy of you to do.

I gut read this as being both a attempt to get sloonei to back off sig, but also a justification to scumread sloonei if he doesn't back off sig.

Agree that, if we hypo, we need to agree on the role list for which its actually useful. Might be doctor and tracker only?

Current reads after catching up.

Lean town on frog and marco
lean scum on zexy
sig as scum and sloonei as town are reads that depend on/flow from my read on zexy - these would be more likely to be true if zexy is scum in my opinion.

Frog wrote: 2) the risks claiming every role and seperate actions for each? There's hardly a risk. E,g,
If I'm tracker I tracked player A to no where
If I'm cop I found inno result on player B

One of the above may be WRONG, which serves to protect that player even if they ARE a power role.

So you are proposing we would say what the result of each is as well?

I do understand the merit of this... eg, you protect the cop for a while at least, although the mafia rule out each person from being cop as they make an incorrect claim, which would happen 50% of the time.

I guess my concern here, and it may be because my brain simply can't process it all, is the number of TPRs where the mafia can critically analyse whether each statement is true or false, in respect of each track. I'm trying to solve how we deal with a particular situation as it arises.

Take jailkeeper or doctor as an example. If there is no nightkill on any particular night, and the mafia know a jailkeeper or doctor is a role in the set up, they might be able to pinpoint who the jailkeeper or doctor is by simply stating the mafia target correctly.

Alternatively, are there particular roles (like jailkeeper or doctor) that we wouldn't list at all? Would there be any benefit in town to it? Is this just about figuring out which roles we should all be doing this for, that assist town long term (eg cop) but don't have as bigger risk of immediately outing someone.

Frog wrote:A) no last wills

Do you mean, that you can't say who you targetted after a hammer or nk, or are you suggesting that you can't give a legacy post even if you simply suspect you may be up for death (rather than after death is certain)? Is this the MU champ rules?

I'm liking frog. He's trying to solve the game. He's explained his reads well and I feel like they are genuine.

Frog wrote:"How did you think about going about it accurately if you don't know what setup we're playing?"

These kind of slips are nearly always bullsuit. You gotta do better than that. How would you expect Marco to have phrased the same sentence if he were town?

Frog wrote:

Zexy wrote:So, sig: what is TS? What do you think of Sloonei’s push on you? You defended, but what does that mean in regards to his alignment?

I disagree on the fake claiming part because in MU there actually a power role cover system where everybody claims all the roles so that the real ones get to “naturally” throw their real results in without standing out too much. And others fakeclaim to draw NKs.

Zexy is towny as flip.

Zexy + Sig = Town

Marco + Sloonei = scum teamish - On page 2 Marco randomly defends Sloonei. Lol. Obv slip is obvious.

At this point my gut read is to see it opposite. Zexy + sig scum, marco + sloonei town.

I didn't like the way Zexy minimised sloonei's sig read, and put in an early perspective that, essentially, no rational player should be reading sig off so little and if sloonei continues with the read he must be a scum looking for a bandwagon.

If you are going about making sure an early wagon doesn't build on your teammate, it's a subtle and clever way of doing it.

Marco wrote:Yep. This also works best in a setup you actually know. Right now, majority of us will be clueless about the actual setup. So, hypo-claiming this game is probably going to be an advantage to mafia more so than town. They have the liberty of knowing the exact setup we're playing on Day 1 whereas most townies are clueless. So, I'm quite against trying Frog's strategy this game. And I wonder why he'd suggest this strategy without actually knowing what setup we're playing.

I really like this post Marco.

What do you think of the 'if I'm a pr, I did this N1, n2, n3' etc. Wouldn't that lead to much better info later for the town and minimising the possibility of it giving too much info to mafia?

Long Con wrote:Doesn't this cause games to devolve into a bunch of counter-claiming and informed defending?

Yes. Which is quite foreign here, but in a game that is entirely team-wincon focussed and with no anti-infodumping rules, entirely makes sense.

We may not do it much, but it is definitely the world I'm running into at the champs.

Frog wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Frog wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Hey, I hear we're playing a mafia game in here?

Yeah man! You in? You Mafia?

Sloonei wrote:Yea to both, King Con.

Please don't self lynch bait

Imagine the setup further down the line and there is no way to prove your alignment (aka vanilla-esque game). By opening with a self-lynch bait and no way to 'clear' yourself, if you end up in F3 scenario, you're going to be untrustworthy from the beginning.

1. You are either lying about your alignment - untrustworthy
or
2. You are mafia - untrustworthy

It's a lose-lose type of situation.

I'm just going to ask you straight up:
1) Were you kidding about being in the mafia?
2) Tell me you're town.

What do you think of all my other posts?

Vote: Sloonei

It's very simple - tell me you're town in your own unique way

Frog is llama 2.0.

sig wrote:I misliked his push on me

I love sig's neologisms.

Zexy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Sig, what is the nature of your ping on me? How strong is it and why is it there?

I like this post. You really don't let a single sentence slip, don't you?

I can confirm that sloonei doesn't let a single sentence slip.

But he knows it. I once got lynched day 2 for defending sloonei hard day 1, when he was in fact scum, because I thought he just looked like his town self in not letting sentences slip.

So I'm not letting it affect my judgment of sloonei either way.

Zexy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What I didn't like about your posts is that they seemed like an easy opportunistic set of early observations when there wasn't a whole lot of content to analyze. It's a good and easy way to establish yourself early on as a town leader.

I don't think you are the kind of person who would base a read only on that anyway when so much more is going to happen.
I'd like to believe same goes for sig.

Sometimes very early reads are the most accurate. Frequently people make their biggest mistakes before they find their footing in the game. If sloonei really believed in his read, why would it be expected for him to 'not only rely on that'?

Sloonei wrote:I don't feel like the content in the thread prior to your string of posts warranted everything you said.

I do agree with this, but do you think it is abnormal for sig?

Frog wrote:Sup! I randed Town so GG.

I'll read what you guys have posted so far, but insofar as tempo control to immediately move out of the RVS stage, I'm going to bring up a polarizing strategy related question:

I've JUST finished a C12 match on MU where many vanillagers were fake claiming TPRs, and fake counter claiming TPRs all over the place. Some of them worked, some of them didn't. Those that didn't work were because of a cognitive dissonance between players. With this in mind, if you are town reading a player, and they fake claim a power role, would you counter claim them?

Furthermore, with respect to claims, I'm planning on following this format every day:
If I'm X role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.
If I'm Y role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.
If I'm Z role, I did this N1, N2, N3, etc.

The Syndicate is not very used to fake claims. It's done a bit at RYM where I've played a bit. I have a couple of questions about this post

1) Are you referring to the concept of knowing someone has fake claimed because you ARE that role, and so your counter-claim would be real? If so, I think my choice of whether or not to counter claim would be entirely circumstantial. I would be trying to figure out why they fake claimed.

2) I like your format, but are there risks of greater exposure through the use of 'if I'm x, if I'm y'. Why is this better than simply saying 'If I am a role that can target, I did this N1, N2, N3'?

I may have a few questions like this throughout the game as I do want to get a got grip on the tactics around power role claiming, including how I can best aid the town in using it whenever I'm vanilla townie.

Also, what did you find odd about LC's entrance, specifically?

Zexy wrote:I’m not that sure IAWY’s entrance in the thread was towny, sig. But it’s not necessarily scummy either. Thanks for the meta advice on MP.

Can someone give us meta on Long Con? That’s a strange entrance they make there, but it feels like it’s their thing.

Sloonei, do you know sig well enough to consider their actions as scummy? I can see your points, but if it’s something sig does regardless of alignment we need to cut some slack. Sig gave thoughts on Sloonei and I can't say I disagree either.

Despite my no u vote (which was just in fun) I didn't find sig's entrance to be indicative of a scum sig (or, particularly, a town sig either).

sig wrote:

Golden wrote:147 posts before I even wake up lol. I imagine this is only a taster of what the actual thing will be like.

Catch up time

You should join me with who I'm voting for I'm sure you'll see the sense in my case.

Your vote is on me, you swine.

No u.

VOTE SIG

MovingPictures07 wrote: Let's drown Golden out so he knows what to expect from MU.

Oh. It's your fault.

@Jay - any chance you could put a link in the OP to your description of each of the possible roles? For ease of reference.

147 posts before I even wake up lol. I imagine this is only a taster of what the actual thing will be like.

Catch up time