The Syndicate

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 3:53 am
Golden wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 1:44 am Back into mafia retirement I go. You all thanks for the game.
Great game golden I really enjoyed playing with you

Likewise and I’m very sorry for not getting through my iso of you.

Back into mafia retirement I go.

You all thanks for the game.

@tutuu just wanted to call out specifically how much I enjoyed my first game with you and how strong I think your play was.

I don’t blame you or any of the hydra for wolfreading me… I never truly found the time to do it the right way.

First time I’ve been played elimmed in a veeeerry long time. It’s kind of cathartic.

Congrats dizzy… genuinely one of the great wolfgames imo.

PC, you found me as town so many times… what was it that wouldn’t stick?

I pretty much fucked up this game from start to finish.

I shouldn’t have baited PC, I’m sorry.

When I neighboured them, I really thought this would be a straightforward dizzy vote. The ferocity with which PC came at me today was a complete shock.

If you think I’ve made some massive convoluted wolf con to make sense of why I’m wolf… I’m never wolf eh

My wolf range is narrow af.

If Kate says I’m never wolf I’m never wolf eh!

Sorry for getting frustrated tutuu. It’s all love. I’m glad it’s over.

You did a decent job of talking me around.

I was honestly so far out of my wolfrange this game I just wish tutuu knew me better.

Well played dizzy. Tbh I was still leaning towards you being the wolf but I couldn’t see any pathway to convincing PC so…

I don’t know what more I could have done… I really thought we could find each other in there.

Well, PC… you literally had Alison not knowing who I was in neighbourhood and you didn’t believe it

Oh dizzy did vote lol

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:47 am Not voting.

Fucking hell my read was right and Kate’s wasn’t.

I’m absolutely not thunderdoming.

I have to let the thoughts in my head process.

I will just say to @Dyslexicon that it’s noteworthy that PCs towncase on you also had the benefit of providing an interpretation that towncleared themselves too.

I still don’t know which of you is town. But I know that case is either wrong or self-serving. If you are the town I hope you see the truth of it, because if PC is the townie I don’t think I have any chance of convincing them if they aren’t convinced already.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:42 am
Golden wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:38 am My role and iawys role are not symmetrical. Your role and svs’s role are not symmetrical.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:35 am
Golden wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:32 am The thing is, I KNOW you’re wrong. And if you’re right about dizzy, then I know you’re lying to pocket dizzy. So you telling me it’s incorrect is just not gonna fly.
do you have a vest? y/n

do you create neighbourhoods? y/n

did iawy have a vest? y/n

did iawy create neighbourhoods? y/n

did svs have a vest? y/n

did svs create neighbourhoods? y/n

we do not create neighbourhoods as part of our role

dnd did not create neighbourhoods as part of their role

I’m not engaging in your self-selected list.

Does goldens role mention lovers? Y/N

Does svs have six heads? Y/N

They just aren’t symmetrical and picking and choosing bits simply isn’t going to fly with me.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:40 am but sure, i (syn) wouldn't mind thunderdoming you

tutuu and sheep might care though lol

Do it then. Vote me. If dizzy is wolf he deserves the win.

I don’t even know what is angleshooting and what isn’t and I’ve been basically gagged from speaking mech and I don’t know what I’m allowed to say.

But I’ll just say your story on your role changes between yesterday and today and suddenly you are ‘symmetrical’ with svs for your dizzy town case.

But I know I’m town, so I will fight to the end on this even if you can outlogic me.

Are you trying to tilt me into voting you? Is that it?

My role and iawys role are not symmetrical. Your role and svs’s role are not symmetrical.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:35 am I clearly said neighborizer not neighborhood. Iawy and golden are neighborizers. DnD and PC arent neighborizers.

-t

You are choosing aspects to suit you.

The thing is, I KNOW you’re wrong. And if you’re right about dizzy, then I know you’re lying to pocket dizzy. So you telling me it’s incorrect is just not gonna fly.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:28 am
Golden wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:21 am
If you are American townie you know the town part is symmetrical. The rest still isn’t. I am not like iawy, I’m more similar to both PC and SVS.
this is so incorrect

you see how this is incorrect, right

It just isn’t. You chose a category to put yourself and me into today, but none of the four roles are identical and each of them has things in common with two of the others.

You yourself have spent days talking about four neighbourhoods. Your dizzy post narrows that to two for symmetry.

You wanna talk symmetry? We are both trying to prove to each other that we are town with basically the same reasons, the same personality, the same everything.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:27 amYou can't both believe I'm the greatest wolf to ever wolf and also the worst.

This is exactly my towncase on myself.

PC have never claimed to have lost three of their heads but I just wanted to affirm that a fourth arrived in my chat so… pretty confident all heads still exist.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:24 am
Golden wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:21 am Dizzy, I like the idea the game is symmetrical. It’s nice to imagine that it’s true, because that means PC is the solve.

I just don’t know and I’m not in a position to feel confident about that.

If you are American townie you know the town part is symmetrical. The rest still isn’t. I am not like iawy, I’m more similar to both PC and SVS.
That's not the only part of the town case though.

I've town cased myself before in thread. I'll do it again if I have to.

Town casing ourselves is much better than being towncased by someone else imo.

Surely you can understand my issue from my perspective.

I also disagree that you had to know rondo was dying. You coulda just shot ender and claimed it as American town kill and got lucky that rondo died to a cyclops.

But I’ll be honest yeah, it is a compelling towncase. It’s just that o know it either has to be wrong or it’s a pocket.

Dizzy, I like the idea the game is symmetrical. It’s nice to imagine that it’s true, because that means PC is the solve.

I just don’t know and I’m not in a position to feel confident about that.

If you are American townie you know the town part is symmetrical. The rest still isn’t. I am not like iawy, I’m more similar to both PC and SVS.

Honestly the symmetry appeals.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:10 am Or maybe I'm just american townie. I don't know.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:15 pm if dizzy is mafia, he is either

1) mafia that has identical role to american VT

or

2) he knew that rondo dies in DND

lets look at the first:

dizzy being in that position as mafia has a much time easier winning than what he has done. nobody had reasons to suspect american town claims. people were treating it as "if u shoot someone, u prove it, ur town."
we were all discussing that we can get guillo proven this way
all dizzy has to do is to get 2 people to vote him and he's proven. bam
i did not see once post of him saying "hey guys, i am american, i can prove myself" - its just such an easy wolf role to pilot in that situation
wolf!dizzy didnt need to go through all those hoops and loops and softs and never claim jsut to get to this position
when he offered for him to get cleared, he wanted to die, rather than have people vote for him
thats just pretty towny. im ruling out option 1

option 2)

ahve 0 info about dnd. i have no idea if that cyclops shit is even a real mechanic, is it just flavor. i dont know nook's brain when he designed the game

what i do now is that dizzy didnt force the situation to have 2 vote son him. if he is mafai with svs - yes he can get her to vote him. but he did not ask ender to vote for him, at least i didnt see it. he stayed quiet the whole day about his role. and his softs check out - he has been softing that role from way earlier. so if he is mafia that isnt american - why soft it so early, from like day 1-2 or whatever?

so again this just doesnt seem very likely to me

5 dead kiwis have flipped. 4 american. dizzy being the 5th american makes it nice and symmetrical

speaking of symmetry:

1 town fruit vendor dennis. 1 mafia fruit vendor marmot
1 town BP PC. 1 mafia BP svs
1 town neighborizer iawy. 1 mafia neighborizer golden
5 kiwi, 5 american

(its been me tutuu)

Do you mean this case dizzy?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:38 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:36 pm To be honest dizzy the reason I suspect you is…

I was wrong about Lily, Porscha, scotty.

Kate was on fire.

If I vote for you it is literal trust in kate over trust in myself, because I don’t know how much I trust my judgment.
Then you haven't thought about it at all.

Whatever Kate thought of me has literally nothing to do with me or my alignment. I don't even know her.

I think this response is problematic. What Kate thought of you was based on several days of casing you. She made points that I thought were valid, even as I had counterpoints about my own read on you.

That’s trust* it

Dizzy, tbh, I am not going to critique PCs town casing of you. It doesn’t make sense, I can’t thrust it. It’s either wrong (if you’re wolf) or intentionally designed to get you to trust PC (if they are). Either way it’s flawed. The most I can do is read it and figure out which f those two works I’m in.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:44 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:37 pmI cannot begin to express how busy I am, I work nine hour, walk to wall days, on four of the last six I’ve also been out at commitments in the evenings. And my weekends are for family.

I want to do more… there is a limit to what I can do.

I shouldn’t have signed up.
Still, you've been able to post over 1000 times. It's not fair for you to expect me to ISO and "find your obvious townness" that way, and for you not to do the same with me. I also have busy days with work and what not.

Also, PC town cased me pretty well. What is either wrong with their town case or why do they town case me as mafia (especially considering I'm already suspecting them)

I don’t have any expectations.

I’m just towncasing myself. What you do is up to you.

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:41 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:39 pm That's kind of a terrible reason. Though I'll admit I can see it coming from town as a "I don't want responsibility" thing, cause I tend to do that myself
It’s not a substitute for due diligence.

Which is exactly why I’m not going to hammer and why I was pretty clear about that fact in terms neighbourhood.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:39 pm That's kind of a terrible reason. Though I'll admit I can see it coming from town as a "I don't want responsibility" thing, cause I tend to do that myself

It’s not a substitute for due diligence.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:33 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:32 pmI feel the same way here. PC actually made a clear case of why I'm town. I'm a bit surprised you're not there.
Or more so, it doesn't seem like you've put as much thought into this.

I cannot begin to express how busy I am, I work nine hour, walk to wall days, on four of the last six I’ve also been out at commitments in the evenings. And my weekends are for family.

I want to do more… there is a limit to what I can do.

I shouldn’t have signed up.

To be honest dizzy the reason I suspect you is…

I was wrong about Lily, Porscha, scotty.

Kate was on fire.

If I vote for you it is literal trust in kate over trust in myself, because I don’t know how much I trust my judgment.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:32 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:21 pmIf I’m wolf neighbouriser im using it to build a towncore, I’m not publicly outing that I redirect a kill just because I’m not trying to learn if sig truly targeted me or Alison (what a strange move that would have been). Missing two neighbour shots on the wolf kills and losing that opportunity to influence the thread would be suicidally poor play.
These are pretty compelling arguments if your role works like you say it does.

I say the evidence I’m town is in the thread because it is. I’m only not town cleared because of paranoia.

I have said this so many tiles in the game but I think it is really clear and I think isoing me carefully and properly and doing due diligence reveals it to be true. A view that I am wolf cannot be sustained on the evidence. I do not think it is possible for other townies to reach the view I am wolf if they do the work. It just doesn’t make sense in any world.
I feel the same way here. PC actually made a clear case of why I'm town. I'm a bit surprised you're not there.

Going through all of your literally thousand posts is a lot. I tried ISO-ing PC, but honestly it didn't help much.

I've found you towny all game, and I've also argued for you not pulling the SVS shit as mafia. But I don't know. I still don't feel like it's an easy decision for me here.

Even if I’m just neighbouriser, and you put everything else aside and focus just on the objective evidence of what is confirmed… I successful neighboured Alison might 1, Kate night 3, pc night 6, and evidence my attempts on nutella and neon (no evidence of ender, I didn’t have anyone to chat to).

Even that should be enough.

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:11 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:09 pm Are you suggesting it’s not on your role card?
the condition (doesn't work in lylo) was given to us separately from the role card

so yes, it is not explicitly written in our role card

Multiple times yesterday I expressed belief in your role claim because my role expressly stated it wouldn’t work when the game ended.

I contrasted it specifically with SVSs role card which does not say that.

Why didn’t you mention this then? You had ample opportunity to say it wasn’t on the rolecard. Instead you hedged with something like ‘we never agreed with what golden says is there’

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:49 pm If Golden pulled that shit with SVS, that's some fucking balls

I just wouldn’t

For me to be wolf this game I have to have fucking balls all over the place.

I have to neighbouring my own teammate… why? What’s the point? (Bet every answer to this could be met with why that’s low-percentage and obviously a bad move with even a little bit of thought and strategy).

I have to be party to two wolf kills on people I was targeting for neighbouring. Why? What’s the wolf upside there?

I have to boldly have saved svs in the thread, a move I only made after she claimed 3p when I’d otherwise called her anti-town all fake. Why abandon it when it would have been a perfect bus?

To believe I’m wolf is to believe I’ve created a massive wifom long con by doing a pile of low-percentage moves. Everyone here at endgame talking about how the wolf is playing a good wolf game, but the simple reality is if I’m wolf I have played a shit wolf game.

If I’m wolf neighbouriser im using it to build a towncore, I’m not publicly outing that I redirect a kill just because I’m not trying to learn if sig truly targeted me or Alison (what a strange move that would have been). Missing two neighbour shots on the wolf kills and losing that opportunity to influence the thread would be suicidally poor play.

I say the evidence I’m town is in the thread because it is. I’m only not town cleared because of paranoia.

I have said this so many tiles in the game but I think it is really clear and I think isoing me carefully and properly and doing due diligence reveals it to be true. A view that I am wolf cannot be sustained on the evidence. I do not think it is possible for other townies to reach the view I am wolf if they do the work. It just doesn’t make sense in any world.

Are you suggesting it’s not on your role card?

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:05 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:00 pm Hey PC

Since you refused to tell me in chat.

Why don’t you honestly say what’s up with your role. It either says lylo or it protects you from nk/contests etc, not both.

Which is it?

Party Crasher wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2023 4:12 pm Our role just says that the first time we die, we dont

We had to clarify extra from that, if it works for chop. Then, we found out it doesnt work in lylo

-t

What do you mean you ‘found out’?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:00 pmGolden is apparently thinking I'm the wolf. If Golden thinks this and PC knows that, why not go with it and get me chopped? Unless they already posted in thread it was Golden?

The answer to this is that I was quite clear in the neighbourhood that I was considering both of you and was going to do my due diligence and not hammer so I don’t think in any world they actually believed I’d made my mind up.

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