The Syndicate

I'm glad the roles were reset, but I have to be honest... I did not see your slip up G-Man. It wasn't as clear as mine.

Yeah, you'll want to vote no or maybe in that one lol.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=66

That one, I mean!

Well, that doesn't exclude you voting in the poll. I certainly understand a brain break before the championship finals.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:next time please kill me faster so i don't have to sustain this meta for 7 days

cool thanks

Lol... it was quite a feat, I have to say.

JJ, sign up for Bullets over Broadway, and vote in the poll!

Sloonei wrote:Why me Night 2? basically you all have to explain every decision you made all game

On night 4 I chose bacon and eggs for breakfast. It seemed like a good idea, because I knew I was going to NK MP, and I couldn't figure out if he was hogging the thread or if he was playing chicken with me.

Part of the trick is definitely to be ok losing and to be more invested in the town winning than yourself.

Part of it is to keep your cards held closer to your chest. If dead civs couldn't win this game, MP and TH might have kept their cards closer, I might not have been on to them and killed them, and the town might have won as a result. The game isn't necessarily balanced more in favour of the mafia by having dead civs lose (although I do think you should assume it is in favour of the mafia if dead mafia CAN win). I personally quite like games where deadies on neither side win. I've seen some epic meltdowns from baddie teams when bussing went on and deadies couldn't win.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I see your point, but that comes with the nasty side effect of making players unwilling to play the game to the fullest, imo. Because a player who does not try hard would have a better chance at winning than one who does. JJJ would never win a game in this format, for example.

It can have that nasty side effect if that's how players play it. But playing a game differently or more quietly does not necessarily equal not playing it to its fullest. I very much enjoy being a civilian and trying to get the town a win WHILE trying to win, and I don't think my civilian reputation has ever suffered any knocks for how I go about achieving that.

Each setting has it's own impact on balance. Epi's point is correct in that being able to win or lose if you are alive has an impact on balance, one that has to be taken into account when designing.

What I enjoy about this kind of open set up is the variance it creates.

PS - I agree with you on creating info that is merely a suggestion. My West Wing game had a mafia role that could make others appear mafia if checked. My Pixar game, an info role got some correct and some poor info each day (and even then the info was ambiguous - for instance one true piece of information was that 'X is a monster' - which they literally were (Sully from Monsters inc) but they weren't mafia).

I think the best outcome for info roles is to balance them with counter-info roles. This means that someone with info has to consider that info in the context of the thread to decide if they believe it or not.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:One thing I don't understand is why implementing a cop is you are so vehemently against allowing the cop to use that information. Sure, not allowing role reveals is one thing, but wanting to modkill a player because he switched his reads too fast?

It gets too subjective for my tastes. What exactly is considered a cop "dumping information" and a cop "not dumping information"? Is he supposed to keep his apparent reads unchanged so there is no chance people will notice he is a cop? Or was he supposed to quote a few random posts from splints and pretend there was evidence for her being a townie in them?

At this point I'd rather stop implementing info roles in the games altogether, if I were you. Better than enforcing a very subjective set of roles to nerf the cop.

Sorry for the criticism, but this is just an aspect of this site that baffles me.

This is a subject of much debate in our 'open set up' sites, and has been for all time I mean, in some ways you could say your role was an 'info role' and you were 'infodumping' by having contests happen in the thread, so there is definitely a subjective standard in play.

TH played his role well within the confines of Russti's rules, I thought.

Roxy wrote:Congrats Golden! Without you replacing in we would have lost! You're the one brotha! <3

<3 I wish I'd been able to play longer with you, Roxy.

Oh, my other favourite bit of the game other than the rap was this:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I have several mafia team scenarios going around in my head at the moment. What do players think of these?

1. aether, BR, Epi, Roxy
2. aether, BR, DDL, Turnip
3. aether, BR, G-Man, Roxy
4. aether, BR, Jay, Roxy
5. Bass, BR, Epi, Roxy
6. Bass, BR, Jay, Roxy
7. BR, DDL, Turnip, Roxy
8. BR, G-Man, Jay, Roxy
9. BR, G-Man, Vompatti, Roxy

etc.

Calling it now.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Oh man, you mafia guys should have killed me last night. BIG MISTAKE.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Seriously, TinyBubbles? What were you thinking?

This series absolutely made my day. It's also the point at which I knew you would be dying that night. "you should have killed me last night" lol - it was too good to pass up.

MP, I loved your game this game. It was equal parts awesome and hilarious.

I hit 1000 Syndicate posts in the endgame somewhere.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Golden -- you were the first to die and the last survivor in the same game.

I hadn't thought of that. What awesome symmetry that is.

Also, I would like to harken back to this prophetic post I made on day one:

Golden wrote:In a game about the economy, voting out the guy called 'golden' is certain to lead to a recession at minimum.

Full on depression, I reckon!

Of course it's playing with fire. JJ, you have a great ability to turn completely on someone's alignment in a second.

My basic strategy was 'If I fool JJJ long enough, I'll win the game'. That's the breaks of being the most dominant voice in the thread. I had that problem in Narnia mafia over at INFJ forum.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:Winning, I mean.

And JJJ, it was soooooooo much fun playing with you. You've given my civilian game a new dimension, I reckon. Stick around. Please.

Likewise! And I appreciate that. This game will have served me very well as I prepare for the champs finale thing precisely because of the way you played this one. My interactive analyses are useful until mafia players make adjustments to account for me. And whether you consciously meant to or not, you definitely did that. It made you very difficult to track.

I absolutely consciously meant to. My goal as a mafia player is to play my civilian game as much as possible, but you forced me to take it to the extreme. I knew I had nowhere to hide if I made even a single slip. You made it a very stressful game.

And I am very glad you didn't realise TH was the target that night (in two different ways)

I think this game could be considered my TS coming out party.

Winning, I mean.

And JJJ, it was soooooooo much fun playing with you. You've given my civilian game a new dimension, I reckon. Stick around. Please.

You know, there was a very small part of me that toyed with killing G-Man or Vomps last night....

But realistically, it would have been either you or splints at lylo.

Just goes to show - maybe I WAS a coward. Willing after NKing G-Man would have been an epic way to go.

But I had my gameplan mapped out for a long time beforehand and I needed to stick to it. JJ, did you purchase a NK protect on the night I killed DDL?

Nah. The only thing I was afraid of was one of you might have a kill, and if so it wouldn't matter who I killed. I thought you would probably have used some of your guns and butter for other things, I thought vomps might be saving up, and I thought you would consider using some on a NK protection, and I didn't think he would. So vomps it would have been.

DDL - I'm glad you loved that role, because the syndicate brand of mafia is full of potential for getting and playing those kind of roles.

Canuck, in Roger Rabbit mafia, had a role which allowed her to come up with a way of getting the entire mafia team to out themselves one after the other in the thread. It was one of the most epic uses of a civilian role I have ever seen.

And I have a 'lawmaker' function in my Battlestar Galactica game where a player can create laws to bind everyone playing - I haven't seen that type of role before so I'm hoping it plays out well.

And as much as MP peed all over the thread, I peed all over my inbox when I was targetted by Nash. That rap competition was so much fun!

MM, I wanted to rez and recruit you. I even asked the hosts if I rezzed a civilian, would they become a recruit. They said 'it depends how grateful they are'....

Although, if I really could have done it, TH would have been the logical option.

I'd like to think most of the dead players were thinking "provided there are no manipulations, we've won".

In fact, I think that is what most of them were thinking.

You know how there are some mafia games you play and then you sort of forget in the mists of time?

This is not one of those games.

Everyone would be wise to respect TB. She's quiet, but she's got game.

TinyBubbles wrote:Anyway golden what have I said that's pinging you?? Kind of disappointed tbh, thought you had my back unless golden 2.0 is golden ressurected to the dark side.. say it ain't so, dear golden. I thought your intuition was pretty accurate?

This was the smoking gun you missed...

Not who TB already had if she was akerlof - but who she was going to get next! It's why TB died. I had to ask and plead Roxy and Bass to change their plan - it was to be MP or TH. They were right, and I was wrong.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:G-Man, I'm still floored. Your behavior was so textbook mafia, I just cannot believe this flip. You were WIFOMing all over the place and I don't understand why you did everything that you did this game. I don't apologize for pursuing my suspicion, but I was obviously mistaken.

I should have known it was too good to be true. :P

This. G-Man basically created a situation where no townie in their right mind would want to lynh anyone else, specially not on lylo (in facts this is probably why Golden pushed for the sanmateo lynch so he could have G-man on lylo). He was acting more scummy than the entire bad team combined.

I give you kudos for the gargantuan amount of commitment yiu put to your image thing, tho. Great game, it was a pleasure playing with you. G-Man.

Specially when I got to make you and MP sing.

Honestly I pushed sanmateo because I would have if I was civilian.

In the thread, I tried to stick to one single perspective. If I am not mafia, if I'm civilian, what is my theory of the game.

In my theory of the game, G-Man looked more civ than sanmateo did, to me.

I didn't care who died on lylo, but what surprised me is how hard it was to get things going on vomps. I was quite comfortable to see G-Man survive until the 1-1.

G-Man wrote:

G-Man, you have no idea how much I loved playing this game with you. Your dedication to the memes was nothing short of legendary.

I apologise for being a coward although when I read that post telling me to NK you, I literally laughed out loud at my screen. It was awesome!

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

GOD. FUCKING. DANMIT.

Great game Golden. Best bad perfotmance I've seen in a while.

Dat bussing. One does not simply bus like you and bwt did.

I have never bussed like that before either.

I'm sure Roxy and Bass won't mind how many wins is that for Bass this year?

splints vote for aether was also a vote for black rock...

How clever. Splints, you played that role very well. It's a shame no-one ever came up with that explanation.

Turnip Head wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I also said "TB was not Adam Smith" since I was fearing that my claim for role checker wouldn't be bought and they'd NK Turnip on N4 anyway, and I panicked a bit. I really just was trying to bait the NK in whatever way I could.

I knew that that's exactly what you were doing and it was much appreciated The extra night let me confirm that Bass was bad. I thought I had enough resources to buy an NK protect that night, but I was foolishly mistaken as always :P

That night... was my most tense moment in the game. For me to win, you had to die then. If it failed, game over. Actually, it felt like I was walking on a tightrope the entire game, everything had to break just the way I wanted it to.

MP, you went before TH because I knew where TH was going the next day, and I didn't believe he was going to rustle me before I killed him.

You, on the other hand - I wasn't 100% certain you were not the guy who could create btsc, and that you hadn't simply met Adam Smith and tragetted splints overnight that night. That's why you had to die first. In hindsight, I'm guessing that person is Sloonei or Epi.

(thanks for killing epi, by the way. My civilian self paved the way for my mafia self to win, in one sense).

Turnip Head wrote:Damnit Golden. I knew there was something fishy about how quickly you latched onto my reads. You cheeky bastard!!! Well played sir.

I would have if you were civilian too, because I believed you were Akerlof, and I'm always looking for the one I think knows.

But it didn't hurt me to do it as a baddie either.

Come at me, bitches

But - as TH can attest - my proudest moment of all in this game was rhyming llama with diorama.

The rap contest was my favourite thing, thanks DDL!

So, I guess the game was over because I had it won at that point. If it could have played out, I was NKing vomps, trying to convince splints to use her vote manipulation the next day, stopping the lynch, killing her that night, and if that still failed using my vote manipulations the day after. This lynch was really the key.

Thank you for a very well played game, guys. You made it incredibly tough for me, I've never had to work this hard as a mafia before.

TB was my fault. I thought she was Akerlof. But the rest of the kills were in the order that I determined on the first day I was in the game. MPs flip on splints meant he had some way of getting info. So did his "TB is not adam smith" statement. Plus his dogpee mafia team that was completely off base was too good to allow him the chance to change his mind.

TH had to be akerlof, and he had to go next. DDL went because I figured if JJ could use a NK protect that's the night he would use it (I so would have preferred to lynch you DDL). Then JJ, who I would have killed three days earlier if I could have, but I just couldn't.

Unfortunately, games like this screw up my civilian game for months, because everyone stops trusting me.

Thanks for being a team, Bass and Roxy! I'm sorry it didn't last long.

Damnit, I have to go to a meeting now!!!! For an hour!!! The suspense is killing me (I hope not literally)

fingersplints wrote:Golden if you are the baddie I am never trusting you again.

The feeling is entirely mutual.

fingersplints wrote:I meant to vote Gman and accidentally clicked on myself.

Fuck no!!!!!

I feel your pain, splints, and omg.

Lets call it G-Man.

Vompatti wrote:

Golden wrote:Why would you even suggest that. You think the mafia won't have any vote manipluation?

It's likely they have less than the civs.

But it's not about how much you have, it's about how you use it. We can't collectively plan to use it well.

Why would you even suggest that. You think the mafia won't have any vote manipluation?

Vompatti wrote:If everyone agrees I could settle for not voting.

Not voting is not going to stop a lynch occurring.

So, G-Man: If you really believe I'm bad, I want you to consider this. You too, vomps, if you are genuinely considering a vote for me.

I know that in this game there is no ironclad reason to trust someone, but I think the way this has gone has given people enough reason to trust me.

Birdwithteeth made a lot of you nervous, but if there is one thing you can say for him - and go back and read his posts if you don't believe me - it's that his vote for bass on day one was not an isolated thing out of nowhere. His posts demonstrate a very consistent view of having bass as his number one suspect or very close to. It's as frustrating to me as anyone that he failed to vote on the next two days, and I'm sure that's why he subbed out. He did indicate he would have voted bass on day two, and wifom, but there is no reason for this statement not to be true.

When I came in, Roxy was one of the first people I called out. Now, as it turned out, TH had already raised Roxy before me, but I didn't know this at the time. This is wifom again, you only have my word for that. But I honestly hadn't kept up with the thread after Sloonei's death because Omerta mafia began and I put my focus there instead. So until I read back, I didn't know TH had called her out.

Now, everything else I can understand you can call wifom. You could say that I bussed roxy and bass, you can find tinfoil hat explanations for what I've done.

But I believe you are right when you say it's the early days where you find the baddie connections. Baddies wise up after people start making connections and they stop making those connections. In the early days, I think you can go back and see that those links are not really there for me/BWT - we'd have had to have been throwing our teammates under the bus from day one in a really unnecessary way.

And I also - this is a matter of perception I get - but I also don't think it's at all fair to say I've been the one setting up to make you an easy lynch, G-Man, when I've had you pencilled in as a role for several days and, as of yesterday, voted for a person who said I was their top civilian read instead of you because I believed they were bad and you were not. If this was about what was in my best self-interests, I would have been better off voting you. Even as of last night, I was still saying 'in a vacuum, I'd vote vomps'. I'm not going to say I've had your back, because that's far from true. But I've been legitimately trying to search for the truth on you all along and I've never conducted myself in a way that is designed to set you up for an easy lynch.

fingersplints wrote:I'm getting so tired I wanted to stay up for the lynch results but it might be tough

If I was you in this situation, I wouldn't be able to sleep anyway

Vompatti wrote:Yes, to some extent.

Given your response to JJJ the other day I would have been worried if your answer was no.

Have you paid attention to what your role is in this game?

We've spent enough time on G-Man, I think. For me, spending more time on him is unhelpful. The only way I would end up voting for someone else is if I think they are more likely bad, and I can only egt to that point by discussing them. What do you think of vomps?

Now I have to be gone for up to an hour (meeting set down for an hour, but I'm hoping it's shorter).

I hope that close to the deadline we manage to all be here at once.