The Syndicate

fingersplints wrote: (it was especially fun to repeatedly silence the people who I knew it would irritate the most )

After we lynched you and you were the phantom, I realised I should have known that might be you.

As it turned out, silence was a blessing because I was so busy during this game that it meant I could legitimately check out a little for a couple of days.

TinyBubbles wrote:this was a great game Dom, very memorable. thankyou for hosting it

One day you'll be bad, bubbles.

Turns out it was Neverwhere. I assumed it was you!

One thing I will say, G-Man, is that I'm glad it was you subbing in (as much as it sucks for anyone) because you handle these kind of things with grace and manage to make the game fun (well, I think so, anyway) even when you are doomed.

I can't agree with not using stuff from another forum, because what it amounts to is this - you are asking me to lie about why I know the other person is bad just because you think it's unfair that I shouldn't use your own actions against you. To me that's actually ridiculously unfair to me - why should I have to lie because someone can't keep their mouth shut? People try and use stuff from another forum in their defence all the time (it's on my meta, go read this game on this forum). But if it's used against them they start to suggest it's unfair. But also, it's not even like TGG limited his musings to another forum. When I brought it in, I was using THIS forum.

The situation is different here because G-Man ended up reaping the penalty and it wasn't his actions, but I brought it in before G-Man subbed in. If I'd known G-Man was subbing in to that role right then, I would have given the substitute a fair shake. It was very unfortunate timing.

Simple reality here is - TGG could have done many things differently - he could have been honest about why he subbed out, he could have done it with different timing that it wasn't so obvious, and he could have not gone rubbing his mouth in other places (including on this forum) about people subbing back in. None of that is on me.

I don't think there is any relationship 'don't bring something in from another forum/don't run your mouth about a game in progress on another forum'. There is only 'don't run your mouth about a game in progress on another forum - or, in fact, on other parts of the same forum'. It's a very basic rule about the game of mafia and if people don't do it, it's really entirely their own fault if they get lynched for it.

Dom wrote:

Golden wrote:I have found, sometimes, that I've caught people on intuition and there is no ability to frame it as easily as 'because you said this thing and it comes from a baddie mindset'. I think epi is particularly good with that kind of intuition.

@Dom - it was great. Great theme. Is this the point where I admit to liking Webber musicals?

Golden's win has been rescinded.

Umm.... the question was purely hypothetical

I have found, sometimes, that I've caught people on intuition and there is no ability to frame it as easily as 'because you said this thing and it comes from a baddie mindset'. I think epi is particularly good with that kind of intuition.

@Dom - it was great. Great theme. Is this the point where I admit to liking Webber musicals?

I think I PMed Dom nearly every musical Sondheim had ever written. When I finally got it right, it was my last guess before giving up.

I had also read the article about the Frogs, but I didn't think of using Epi's technique on that one.

I have to admit, the Flash popped through my mind in that final day as I was thinking about the fact that whatever decision I made could determine whether LC/BR backed up and won another game together.

I still can't get over the fact that somehow every baddie team Bass is in wins.

Oh, another thing LC - did you legitimately think I was on team webber, or were you thinking it was simply an advantageous feud?

Ninja's songs were probably my favourite part of the whole game too.

And Scotty - it feels odd to say this after you've now really become part of the community - but it was nice to meet you and play with you. I love other people who really play the civilian side of things hard and try to work stuff out. I had a lot of fun working on the confusing puzzles with you.

This is the first time I've ever won as independent. Roles where my win con is survive and win with any affiliation are not my strong point.

Scotty wrote:Argh. What an agonizing loss. This game pulled at my heart strings. I have the answers to trivia on a doc at home because I love this shit.

At first I was determined I would rezz you so you could win one of the prizes too... I was asking dom 'if I take the rezz, can I use it instantly?' I wanted you to be up and immediately get the second prize.

Unfortunately I had to wait until night, and by the time that rolled around I wasn't sure if trivia prizes would still be around and so instead I went for the person I could most guarantee was civ (just in case anyone needs proof I was really trying for the civ win!)

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I was one of the few revealed roles, so I was super-surprised when you voted for me Golden, because I thought you realized what I was saying.

I did realise what you were saying but that didn't guarantee you were telling the truth.

linki @DF - I agree. If there is one thing this game has taught me, its that as a mafia some thought should actually be given to nightkilling inactives. It's always going to be hard to justify, though, but it's made me realise there are potential benefits to it.

And....

Who was responsible for the attemp on scotty on night 8... was it team wildhorn all along? MM was so obsessed with an unknown force, but I think it was just wildhorn.

What I want to know is how all the survivals came about?

@SVS - did you only figure out my role when you admitted it in the thread? Or did you know I was Rogers for a lot longer before that?

@DF - well to be fair, noone needed to kill me - just like epi. You just needed to convince me to vote other people. I was quite persuadable (see my vote on MM, for example). I didn't want anyone to feel like they had to kill me.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:@SVS - I googled hard and it was still very close to impossible.

I argued with the host and made my case on one of them.

Oh, did you win the role check?

I did. Found out nijuu was SS. Basically a bonus search for me. Figured I had a win in the bag.

Died anyway.

Haha... the main reason I thought daisy was bad was how hard she trusted me. I figured she had won the role check, seen I was indy, and realised she didn't need me dead to win.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:@SVS - I googled hard and it was still very close to impossible.

I argued with the host and made my case on one of them.

Oh, did you win the role check?

@SVS - I googled hard and it was still very close to impossible.

I nearly took the mystery box. Ultimately, though, I took the rez because I didn't want the baddies to have it.

And I'm sorry too ninja I really thought daisy was the bad one, and I wanted you to win. I loved your songs so much and I wanted to atone for Biblical.

I don't know why I survived the night 2 attempted kill. But I'm glad I did.

I also legitimately was working to get a civ win.

My plan was essentially... get civ cred early, then bandwagon so that the baddie teams wouldn't see any reason to kill me.

The hardest part of the game was when JJ started calling me out for being on bandwagons. It was like... yes I am JJ. That's exactly where I want to be. It's a tough line to straddle between not being lynched and not being NKed.

SVS, why did you survive the night kill?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I will never let Golden survive past Day 1 again. EVER!

Good game. Well played Golden. I let myself get duped by your accidental reversed nightkill.

I wasn't bad MM. I was indy.

And that is why I wanted Ninja to have the choice... since I would win either way, and she was deciding her own fate but not mine.

But given SVS and I were to be serial killer partners.... if I hadn't gone and lynched her on day one... it seemed better that I would win with her.

Sorry Ninja - I really wanted both you and SVS to win. Well played at the end there, SVS.

And Bass wins again too :o I don't believe it.

(And LC - I think you winning with me is kind of fitting, all things considered, eh?)

I so hope this is the win.

Also SVS, I'm glad the silver buddha saved you from death. Do you know how you survived that attempted kill?

Now I hope/wish Dom would turn up early and end the day!

Good call ninja.

I'm pretty sure it is daisy, I have some really good reasons for feeling that way. And I felt the same way SVS does about us winning together. It's so fitting

S~V~S wrote:I am not bad. Like not at all. I am surprised to see you riding someone elses coattails.

Ninja and I have to come to a consensus. That's not cottail riding, thats just a fact. We have to vote together. If we do not, there is a tie, and noone gets lynched, and that is not helpful at all.

I think daisy not you is the baddie, but I'm open to a persuasive argument if ninja really thinks you are.

linki - I think it is either bubbles or neverwhere. Probably bubbles. But there are plenty of possibilities. It's enough for me that I've ruled out everyone else alive from being J&H. Whoever it was, they are definitely dead.

S~V~S wrote:She didn't vote yet

I know... neither did I.

And I'm not going to until I know what she is thinking.

Well Ninja, I really don't want a tie, so I'm voting with you.

I feel like Daisy is the better way to go, but if you really think it is SVS I will roll with you.

I'm also certain that if we get this right the game will end. Jekyll is not alive.

Jekyll targetted me on day four or 5. SVS, Daisy, Gumshoe and Devin were not around at that time. Jekyll is also not the singer, given their role is clearly revealed.

S~V~S wrote:It's also interesting that you mention a role checker. One of the roles I had in mind for B & C was a power stealer, who would learn a role in the process. Now I really have to go get ready for work, lol.

Nah, its not a role thing. The reason I suspect it has to do with the trivia contest.

Unfortunately, Daisy subbed in too late to make any meaningful connections with teammates.

SVS did not. Given her day 6 entry, if she was on team wildhorn there is slight overlap with BR. There is enough in a read back to make a very small case that SVS is a teammate of BR, but I don't find it overly convincing. I would think that if SVS had subbed into a team in which BR knew she was going down, SVS (and BR) would have been ok with a bus.

All in all, I would lean slightly more towards daisy being bad than SVS right now... but im particularly interested in what the two of them have to say.

linki - and there is SVS! And SVS, I didn't think to look for links to TH, but I should.

And SVS - you went back and looked does that give some context as to why I think people may not have tried to kill me? Particularly if its daisy who is bad, who I think has role checked me?

@ninja - if taking MM's theories at face value, I don't think daisy can be ruled out.

BR could have sent in the kill 'from B & C' until night 6. We don't know if wildhorn attempted a kill on night 8. Daisy was around by night 10. Cars and gunshots do lead to the implication that Bonnie & Clyde is sending in the kills, though.

I can't see any way that MM's theory about being able to send in the kill from a different teammate could be wrong at this point - because TH/SVS were also away during night 5 or 6, and only BR and possibly whoever was jekyll could have still been alive to do it.

Did SVS really sub in that early? I thought she subbed in around the same time as daisy.

I'm fairly sure jekyll is dead because their vote manipulation ability would have been critical at this end of the game and there is no evidence that's its been seen for some time.

good game MM, it's pretty impressive stuff.

Yay, only a 24 hour day, that's what we need.

I have some thoughts, but I'm really interested to hear what the rest of you have to say first.

I will say, though, that given a kill has gone in, a lynch of Devin or Gumshoe seems like a waste of time to me.

Dom, has the team one kill been inherited by team two?

My spreadsheet said those two had to absolutely be bad (it was all that made sense), but I'm surprised that splints wasn't B & C. I'm betting she was the silencer, though. Good job on getting so far as a team, splints and DF. (And honestly - sig, G-Man, splints, DF - thats a team that sounds like a lot of fun to be on.)

I really do think we have dealt to Jekyll & Hyde - there is no sign that they have been around for a long time. I think bubbles and neverwhere are the likely candidates. So I think we are probably down to just Bonnie & Clyde to get.

Also, Act One is gonna be really really long compared to Act 2. But yay for intermission. I'm going to get a coffee and some snacks, and maybe they are selling the soundtrack somewhere...

Sloonei wrote:Does anyone else think that now is a good time to start talking about lynching one of the inactives?

I'm open to it.

DF could have been the last member of his team, I don't think the phantom MUST be alive, but they could still be alive. I wonder if the phantom is SVS and this whole day was a big wifom gambit. I don't understand why she was so sure that df would not have killed her. I'd be fairly willing to consider an SVS lynch tomorrow.

S~V~S wrote:I don't think Faraday tried to kill me. Who do you think did, Golden?

Faraday!

I knew he had to be team webber, I just knew it!

SVS, another thing to consider is daisy's vouching for me. I believe I know exactly why she is (other than just because I'm good). And I'm pretty sure she 100% knows it for sure.

I request, hopefully, your trust for at least just this one lynch - I've really believed DF is bad for ages and for whatever reason it keeps not happening. If I'm wrong, then come after me tomorrow and I'll try to do a better job of convincing you why I'm good.

So it would seem.

DFaraday wrote:The most users ever online is right now.

Wow!

S~V~S wrote:Not only do I not look for role hints; I tend to ignore them if i do see them. Too easy to misinterpret, and to fake. I wont go so far as to say i think role hints are the Devil, but i do think they are just a wee tad demonic. Just a tad.

I hope everyone weighs in tonight.

Yeah, I do understand this is your perspective and there is nothing I can really do about that.

S~V~S wrote:I just don't see DF trying to kill me, though. There would be no profit in it for him. He did not even try to use it as a hook.

I think I am going to vote for Golden, becasue I DO see him killing me.

I would too

But not ahead of confirmed townies like sloonei. And why would I rezz sloonei - and again, there is plenty of proof that I am not bad.

And more than anything, above all, you are the person who I think is best placed to read the thread and understand my own role hints.

Voting DF because I feel thats the right way to go.

I cannot say why I am not dead, but it is not because I am bad. At minimum, there is a team you know I am not on that has chosen to kill people like Canuck and JJ ahead of me or sloonei. I don't think anyone who has been NKed or subject to a NK attempt could be considered to be a bad civ. In fact, I think everyone who is active and left alive is a good civ.

I will admit I've considered the possibility that I'm still alive because I'm wrong about who is bad (which is probably the best reason not to NK me). But I've been over my spreadsheets again and again and I just really believe DF is bad.

DFaraday wrote:I'm still not seeing the connection between MM's alignment and SVS being targeted. Everyone is so vague lately.

And to answer your question, SVS: I, for one, am starting to wonder about Golden. The fact that he apparently hasn't been targeted by Team Webber at all this game despite being the most vocal and civvie-seeming player (aside from Sloonei) does give me pause. Also the fact that he keeps going after me.

Once again, a theory that has been raised by many people over and over and over again which I've defended myself of again and again and again.

Explain why I was the person who completely unmasked TGG's gambit. I wouldn't merely have bussed him and g-man, I would have been going out of my way to draw the entire thread's attention to things that they didn't really need to be drawn to.

There are also others here - particularly splints and MM - who are able to verify that the timing of me going after TGG was exactly aligned to my finding out about non-in-thread stuff about him. It wasn't some charade - it was me full on busting someone.

The reason I am not legitimately considered to be on team webber is because of the clear lengths I went to early in the game to bust them. You can read back and think about it for yourself.

I lied about not wanting to lynch DF.

I still really think either he, splints or MM must be the phantom. And I have a renewed feeling that DF is the most likely option. I felt really a bit gutted with myself for flipping to MM yesterday.