The Syndicate

Well, I loved your first foray into closed set up epi. It allowed me one of my favourite roles ever.

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I was hoping some more false information came into play. S~V~S lie detected bea's statement about having BTSC, but had she done so later, she would have been told that was a lie (since she gained it with Matt F). Had she lie detected a similar statement from Turnip Head early on, it would have come back true.

i always need to know about Bea right away. She said something that got my attention, so when she made a clear checkable statement, i went for it, and as soon as I got the PM< I went in and said I had reread her and she seemed legit to me. I totally dropped my suspicion of Eloh the same way, I checked her the TH lynch, and when i learned she had NOT voted for a member of her own faction, I just stopped discussing her, so it would not be as obvious.

Linki, yeah, sorry Matt. With MM flipping a baddie poisoner, that question made me incredibly paranoid.

When I solved bits of your role, I realised you had LDed bea, and I went back and saw the clear breadcrumbs.

Never noticed the eloh one, though. I begun to think you may have used petit perception on FZ, and either you or I had had our power redirected when it came to her. Thats why I got FZ to claim a house.

MacDougall wrote:Congrats guys. Fun game. Never doubted you Golden.

No, never

Well no wonder I never solved what oral analysis was, lol.

I had your back on nights 2 and 4 sorsha, so you were as safe as houses for most of that game.

TH's role explains his terrible game... he even banished sig to the desert, lol!

I have long been curious why Matt asked if SVS knew something about being protected on night one...

Since I protected SVS on night one...

linki at epi knowing what I'm about to ask at every turn.

Did I save Eloh from death on night 3?

So, Matt, were you Paul not Wellington?

I got puzzles to solve your roles. No role names, but I had to figure it out from the content. Here is what I'd figured out.

Mac was Duncan (night one)
SVS was Jessica (night two). I also guessed Sorsha was Gaius Helen Mohaim from solving some of SVS role, because it seemed consistent with Sorsha's claims (am I right, Sorsha?).
Ninja was Irulan (night three)
FZ was Lyet Kynes (night four) - but this one took me a very long time to figure out. Eventually I got the word 'planetologist'
Bea was Chani (night five)

@Eloh - who did you really want our house to vote for?

Zebra won even though dead! Yay!

S~V~S wrote:Maybe Epi WAS being nice and letting me win with the civs

If Lukes death does end the game that was a really awesome gesture, tbh. You deserve the win as much as any of us.

SVS is an old friend, Mac, one I have the deepest respect for.

PS - I feel very sad for Paris right now. It's a sad day I feel like there has been nothing this co-ordinated since 9/11.

@Mac - you don't need to quote me back to me. I'm giving you the other post for YOUR use, if you insist on lynching me tomorrow. OK? Call it a legacy post.

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:Luke best flip civ? lol

Well ... you know what I mean. I got heated lol.

I'll fight you back, of course.

But you know, if luke isn't the last hark and you do lynch me, then after I'm dead don't lose sight of this post. It's the important one.

Golden wrote:It isn't FZ. It isn't ninja. It isn't bea. It isn't Mac. It isn't Eloh. It isn't you. And I know it isn't me. That leaves Sorsha (who would have to be the bussiest, most townie baddie of all time), banana (who would have to be the most lamoest lame baddie of all time, if he is literally only showing up to place kills) or luke.

Luke best flip civ? lol

Oh, good point eloh - or even if epi felt it would be fair for SVS to win.

Fingers crossed either way!

S~V~S wrote:Why do you say this, Golden?

Why would epi arrange for you to sub in two hours before the game ends?

That is not a good sign. In terms of the game ending.

I agree.

Lets save the cake.

Luke better be the right answer. And end the game.

Then there will be lots of cake.

MacDougall wrote:Golden you've ruined this game with your huge epic gambits of 100% certainty.

I'm sorry, mac, for ruining the game for you.

This is basically stock standard me playing mafia. I am who I am. So I also apologise for any past or future games I also ruin for you.

Matt F wrote:You say there is a recruit or there isn't. But if there is, it's me.

Did I not just read that?

All true, but my conclusion is:

"I think it very likely there is no recruit. I'm just keeping my eye on Matt as an outside possibility, to only be pursued if all Harkonnen are gone and the game has not ended."

MacDougall wrote:Okay so what's the deal with the last player we lynched appearing in the poll again? That's got to be a thing. Golden you seem to know everything explain that.

Epi screws up sometimes?

Matt F wrote:Okay.

Golden - I am not a traitor. I am not a recruit. I am not Harkonnen. Can you remind me how you've come to this conclusion?

Anyway, Golden seems pretty sure. FZ and Sorsha seem to think Golden is on the up and up as well, so let's lynch Luke and see what happens.

I think you should read my posts better if you think I have 'come to those conclusions'. I haven't. I came to the conclusion there is no traitor.

@Matt - 'everyone' shouldn't think there is a recruit, I'm not sure how that has happened either. I raise the concept, and it becomes main stream. I just didn't want us to assume the last Harkonnen would end the game. I keep my mind open.

I put it out there as a possibility that one specific role could be a traitor. I also think there is a very limited pool of living people that specific role could be. Namely, Matt F. If Matt F is not that role (and he has claimed not to be), I do not think there is a traitor. Even if Matt F was that role, there is no guarantee he would be a traitor.

Ie, from my perspective, there is no recruit, or Matt F is a recruit. I think it very likely there is no recruit. I'm just keeping my eye on Matt as an outside possibility, to only be pursued if all Harkonnen are gone and the game has not ended.

Others seem to have latched on to the idea but far beyond what the lore appears to allow for, and knowing Epi's hosting style his roles will fit the story. The Emperor was a potential candidate for a traitor in lore, but its hardly a traitor when he is part of a faction which could just as easily be independent anyway.

@FZ - yeah, see, I would definitely find it lame too. That's why I have to vote luke. I can't imagine this game is continuing in this way if banana is the last baddie. I have to hope.

Sorsha wrote:I said I trusted Golden. That's valuable.

That was going to be my exact response. I find that valuable.

@Matt - I am perfectly calm.

I don't need 48 hours.

I don't need any hours, or even minutes.

It isn't FZ. It isn't ninja. It isn't bea. It isn't Mac. It isn't Eloh. It isn't you. And I know it isn't me. That leaves Sorsha (who would have to be the bussiest, most townie baddie of all time), banana (who would have to be the most lamoest lame baddie of all time, if he is literally only showing up to place kills) or luke.

Matt F wrote:Yesterday he promised us Floyd as Harkonnen and me as Floyd's recruit.

Bollocks.

Yesterday, in fact, I promised something very different:

Golden wrote:If Floyd isn't the last harkonnen, I am absolutely confident it is luke. I'm not sure what Matt's game is, but it could well be setting up a civilian FZ lynch tomorrow. And yes, it will be a civilian lynch.

Golden wrote:@Matt - either floyd or luke is the last harkonnen. Luke isn't on the poll. Do the work if you like, but I would lynch a million civs before lynching FZ.

Golden wrote:Otherwise, just remember I trusted you on MM, I trust SVS on bea, I think its time to trust me on FZ. That doesn't necessarily have to mean you vote floyd.

And once again, Matt... your insistent approach to me makes me think, once again, that you would be the recruit if there is one. You fought me tooth and nail yesterday, and you are doing it again, but to say that yesterday I promised that Floyd WAS the last baddie is simply untrue.

I consistently promised that FZ wasn't, and that it was EITHER floyd or luke.

And there is also literally nothing anyone could do or say that would change my vote from luke to any other person. And not because my vote is forced. It's not.

I don't need the whole day to go over it, I've had 5 days and nights already.

It means I'm not wrong.

(although technically the civilians would still have a better chance not lynching me tomorrow. But, unless banana is playing a pretty dubious tactic, it has to be luke.)

I voted Luke.

Yesterday, I narrowed the last harkonnen down to him or floyd. I admit if I'd had the chance to pick either, I probably still would have gone floyd. But I felt like it was a 50/50 shot.

Today, with floyd gone and not bad, I feel this is a 100% shot.

Luke is the last harkonnen. If I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow.

@Mac - if luke is the last baddie, and we keep not having the option to lynch him, what should we do?

I will be so fucked off if the civilians lose this game because of infighting. The SVS/FZ fight was bad enough. Matt, Mac, FZ, bea, eloh, sorsha, me, ninja... the eight of us are all DEFINITELY NOT FEYD-RAUTHA.

There is literally no reason we should be lynching any of us before luke or banana.

Mac, all I can say is...

You are stuck on your own paranoid theory, and you won't lose sight of it. But I've given you SO much evidence to work with that I'm telling the truth. You know, I believe, for a fact that I'm not the last Harkonnen. So you are stuck on the idea of a recruit instead.

How about this - lets get the last Harkonnen, and if the game doesn't end, then lets cut our allies to pieces with accusations of being a traitor.

linki @sorsha - exactly, 'if there was a recruit'. Only if there was a recruit.

Mac, listen to sorsha.

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:I think it means irulan trusts me, and thinks you should listen to me.

I also think a lot of you still think Irulan could be bad, but I'm one of the few people telling you all that they are not.

I'm not talking about FZ, either.

I ... don't agree.

The only one making lists is you.

You may not agree, but you are wrong. I've been a vocal supporter of Irulan for most of the game.

And I am not the only one making lists. I made one list, very late in the day, in a game where night actions are not changeable.

In the mean time, for example:

Elohcin wrote:These are the players, in alphabetical order, that I think have any chance of being the last Hark. Of course I suspect come more than others and one, I don;t even really suspect at all. I will review them as thoroughly as I can before I vote. I still have this nagging feeling that Niju is bad and seeing how quiet she can be before anyone looks at her .

Bea
Banana
FZ
Niju
Sorsha

What is that if not a list?

If I can't vote luke for the second day in a row, I'm going to be really gutted.

Luke is the last harkonnen, and its just going to mean another person dies unnecessarily.

Luke is off the poll AGAIN

And Floyd is on it?

Epi, do you have this correct?

I think it means irulan trusts me, and thinks you should listen to me.

I also think a lot of you still think Irulan could be bad, but I'm one of the few people telling you all that they are not.

I'm not talking about FZ, either.

Bea just wants to lick sting up.

Having said that, my green is more like 'I have two separate reasons to trust them'. Things are never iron clad. But, if people react the way you expect them to react to something, sometimes it confirms your perspective. Does that make sense?

Like how I expected Eloh to tell me she wasn't in House Fremen
I've had one of these moments with Mac
I've had one of these moments with FZ
I haven't with Matt... but I'm trusting it because if things are right with Mac, and with me, then I trust they are right with Matt.

Hope that sort of makes sense.

Unfortunately, that means one of BR and Drac is wrong. Maybe one of them is the smuggler? I'll be honset, the theory I've been working on for days is partly based on the fact that I believed I had correctly identified the house of all nightkilled people.

But here is the living list. Green I trust because I feel I have in thread evidence (beyond speculation - evidence of mechanics at work) that they are working for good. Yellow I trust based on other things, like process of elimination, good baddie hunting, and vouches. This trust has to be less firm than green. Orange I don't have any reason to trust. All of these levels of trust come down to them not being Harkonnen. The only people I definitely trust not to be recruits are Mac and Sorsha, and thats just a hunch based on their baddie hunting skills.

Eloh
Mac
Matt
Golden
FZ
Sorsha
ninja
bea
Luke
Banana

Also, Zebra 1.0 is correct, he was lynched as Gurney Halleck

Elohcin wrote:

Golden wrote:Eloh, if you think there could be 5 Atriedes alive, then it throws everything off, so my list may as well be ignored.

You said at least 4 the day sig was lynched as four people seemed to be forced to vote sig. I say 5, yes.

Golden wrote:Mac's good, but despite his first 17 posts being on point

If we do not lynch luke tomorrow, we will not be lynching a harkonnen. Unless svs is wrong about bea. I'm going to have a second look at bea tomorrow.

House Atriedes

Mac
SVS
Matt
Golden
Draconus
Black Rock
Zebra 1.0

I believe those in green are correct plus one other.

Golden wrote:I will say, I just checked and it does say banana last visited yesterday.

It's slightly tricky if banana isn't posting or appearing to be playing in any way but is still actually present.

Could be the case. Is banana playing any other games? But....do you think Bea would kill SVS to throw us off or her? Its something I can see myself doing if I were a baddie Bea.

I did say at least 4 HAD to be alive, but I also assumed from sig lynch day that the number could be no more than 4 as well.

I will say, I just checked and it does say banana last visited yesterday.

It's slightly tricky if banana isn't posting or appearing to be playing in any way but is still actually present.

Irulan, I knew I liked you!

I won't be voting FZ. I will be holding on to my vote for now. I want to have a close look at bea, before I feel for certain that luke is the right answer. SVS dying despite vouching for bea only makes me more confident, though. I doubt bea would be killing SVS right now.

I thought you were meaning luke had motive to kill me.

Oh, I get what you mean. You think I had motive to kill zebra.

But Zebra had come to the view I was civilian. And I had to fight hard to achieve that.

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Aside from you right?

Aside from me what?

Having more motive to kill Zebra.

Golden wrote:

MacDougall wrote:The fact that you are still alive is also a little bit confounding. Just a tad.

Why? It's only been since zebra died that I've gone on the offensive. It's why I asked for protection tonight, if it exists. Before that, we had no kill on night three so do you think I was so obviously and clearly the best target on nights one or two?

That's not true. You have been a significant contributer since the start. You and Zebra interracting prior to her lynch was a lot of the volume of the thread. No you were not obviously and clearly the best target but compared to who was removed I would have picked you over them. Albeit I did say just a tad. The same argument can be made for a number of players. We shall see who survives this night then.

Golden wrote:No kill on night three is also why I believe protector DOES exist.

Or the scum targeted a recruitable that night.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate all of your effort truly. And either way you would be playing a great game. I just feel the need to keep you under scrutiny lest you run away with all this supatowning you are doing to win the game as scum either recruited or original.

Well, you should have a look at how much I talked about LUKE before zebra was killed...

Since your response was about my theory as to why LUKE would kill zebra.

Because there is a difference between being a contributor, and correctly identifying baddies. If FZ is the last baddie, for example, why would she kill me right now?

Eloh, if you think there could be 5 Atriedes alive, then it throws everything off, so my list may as well be ignored.

SVS, I'm not sure why you are so determined. You yourself have said 'results can be falsified', so why do you feel so strongly?

@eloh - knowing floyd was not atriedes... and with seven atriedes alive at the start.... and with only zebra 1.0, BR, Draconus dead.

That means at least 4 Atriedes still had to be alive. At least four.