The Syndicate

This game is awfully slow.

I thought the fact Dom started dropping the gimmick was interesting too, but maybe he just got tired of it.

@Rico

I was missing playing here too.

Its just easier to talk about roles by giving them labels imo. Epi likes to restrict his SKs by not giving them killsnfrom the start, but the classic role is basically the same.

Likewise, the recruiting guy is the cult leader, and Ibagree we should be paranoid about him.

I feel like Sorsha looks so bad it hurt but that's a problem. It seems more like she is not even trying (due to not being able to catch up and such) than she is trying to manipulate people into thinking she's good. Looks more like a neutral read to me.

SK is serial killer. The fact it needs to fulfill requirements to start killing doesn't change what the role is.

Also I feel like I want to vote for TH, but cant find any rational reason for it. Something about him feels wrong though.

I was going to say I suspected Nutella after reading MP's D2 suspicion on her (he basically said the same thing I said about her on D1, but on a larger scale). But then I kind of liked her defense. I feel like admitting to be clueless is better than trying to make it look like they are are sure of what they say, which some players (such as myself) tend to do as scum.

Russ still looks bad as hell and I have little reason not to vote for him again.

I and humbled by the power of vote analysis ater seeing Jay take MM down with it and I'm willing to employ it again after seeing Rico's amazing list. So Timmer is a likely second vote.

Holy shit now Ricochet is in the game too.

This game is probably reaching a record for number of players I'm afraid of reading as civ in the same game.

Then again, I think I've seen at least one NF game reach it too...

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Bullzeye wrote:Not being able to post at night really sucks for me because that's how I usually get myself caught up and claw my way into a game.
If I may make a recommendation...

I've found that dead night phases can offer an opportunity to catch up while the thread isn't simultaneously exploding. It's a nice opportunity to look through things at your own pace and identify posts people make that you want to talk about. You can even prepare your posts ahead of time, maybe in Word or Notepad or wherever, and then whenever you're around during the following day phase you can just dump those pre-made posts straight into the thread. The conversation of the hour may be somewhere else, but who cares. Say your piece.

To be fair nights are usually active enough for that to change much.

I actually prefer night posting becaise it allows you to reply things immediately instead of trying to remember what you are gonna say next day.

Though I'm used to haing night posting at NF and not having it here so that's just my confort zone.

Turnip Head wrote:DDL, were there RL concerns that made you vote somewhat early? Or were you just that sure about your votes?

The biggest RL concern of all. Mondays.

(I saw the following post but wanted to say this anyway)

I see I arrived home in time for the big combat.

<grabs popcorn>

I won't be here for the rest of the phase so I'll vote now.

Russ for reasons already stated.

MM because I pretty much agree with Jay's vote analysis on him and this is MM so I don't expect to be able to read anything more from him.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Considering the visible differences between Nanman and the Yellow Turbans (two more players and much stronger dueling strength for the Nanman), I think it's probable that there is night kill protection somewhere among the Yellow Turban secrets. There aren't many better ways to attempt to re-balance those factions that I can think of. I suspect the secrets for the Turbans are extensive and powerful either way.

It's pretty speculative. I do agree with Glorfindel that there's a better-than-usual probability that at least one of the kills was missed, given the prevalence of quiet players and missed votes we've observed so far. With this many missed votes and quiet players, that's not an illogical deduction. It's not the only possibility, but it's a strong possibility. I'm not really sure how we'd be able to reliably determine which quiet players are the most suspicious quiet players at this point though.

Every time a night 1 kill doesn't happen I see someone deduce that was because inactive players, and I have never seen that come true.

If the mafia has one active player, they will be able to send actions for others. So for this to come true the entire mafia would have to be inactive. That's statistically unlikely.

I'm willing to buy it if night kills keep not happening, but for now I'll just be thankful for our luck and keep playing the game normally.

Glorfindel wrote: That is true DDL but of the eight instances of *secrets that you quoted from Dom's post, three belonged to the Yellow Turbans and I can't personally see them having/using a lynch stop power when they have one of two NKs each night. Another two of the characters nominated are Independents and I can't fathom how either of them might have a power that might do that... I'll accept my original statement on this matter may have been a little impetuous and naive but I don't think (that in a game with a player base of 37 right now when we had 50% of the players fail to vote EoD 1 and a considerable number still with minimal to no posts) it is necessarily prudent to exclude the possibility that player absence could've been a factor in the result we got at the end of the last Night phase.

Nanmans try to kill Yellow Turban.

Yellow Turban has kill protection.

Nanman kill fails.

Don't limit yourself to "would they use it or not?" Think of passive abilities. Some roles are just hard to kill.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think Soneji will show up eventually. He's been here since the game started. He always seems to start silently.

He makes a point to post a little as possible in the first few phases of any game, so there is that.

I mean, this post itself isn't bad, but pile that up with the lack of other posts today and the already suspicious behavior from the previous days, and it feels like he's just coasting.

I didn't like Russ's recent "Congratulations on lynching Wilgy, guys!" It doesn't feel honest.

I think I'm voting for him today.

Oh and the previous post is about Soneji

nutella wrote:(Has anyone tried to tell lorab or rabbit or soneji the game has started? It's been a while...)

I have. He didn't reply. He then went and started hosting a game on NF which he apparently is having a hard time juggling with his RL.

I can't speak for him, but it doesn't seem he's going to play this game.

Simon wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Simon wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Hey Simon, what do you like about Russtifinko?
Clearly I have no reasons.
You are a strange bird.

are you sure you're not a Fletchling?
No, I'm a gym leader training Mewtwo.

Did you really find the secret to catching Mewtwo in Pokemon Go?

Though tbh I missed the drunk guy, while Dom missed the SK.

Oh ffs Domald ninja'd me.

That's what I get for posting before I finish catching up.

Glorfindel wrote:
Dom wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:Given there was no NK, may we assume that Zhang Jiao is one of the non participating players in this game so far? Someone who perhaps didn't post from the latter part of Day 1 onwards perhaps?
This seems presuming !

What secrets do you know ? Or what do you want all of us-- the regular people-- to think?
This is not a matter of knowing any secrets, my friend - it's simple logic. If you can come up with another plausible explanation for the lack of ANY NK well, I'm listening...

Pang Tong
Strategist
Pang Tong likes to use trickery to confuse the enemy.
*Secrets*

Sima Yi
Strategist
A devious man, he is the primary strategist for the Wei faction.
*Secrets*

Zhang Jiao
Leader
The leader of the Yellow Turban Rebellion, he is able to summon the wind and rain.
*Secrets*

Zhang Bao
Strategist
The middle brother of the Yellow Turban Rebellion, he is able to summon apparitions.
*Secrets*

Zhang Liang
Strategist
The youngest brother of the Yellow Turban Rebellion, he is able to summon a rockslide.
*Secrets*

Dong Zhuo
Leader
This notorious warlord has an entourage of bodyguards, protecting him always from assassination.
Cannot be Night killed. Inherits the Yellow Turban kill.

Yuan Shao
Strategist
Military strategist and commander.
Each Night, Yuan Shao will attempt to recruit a warrior (anyone with BTSC cannot be recruited). He may recruit up to three warriors (one from each kingdom). *Secrets*

Lu Bu
Warrior
A most fearsome warrior, and rider of Red Hare.
By the third Night, Lu Bu must decide what faction he will fight for and achieve victory with. *Secrets*

Every intance of *secrets* in the setup is a way those kills could have been stopped.

Plus we know the serial killer is bulletproof.

Yeah I eventually read his posts and realized that.

Sorry MP.

Jan wrote:
Epignosis wrote:

"JaggedJimmyJay is bad."

Looks like a hunty has been EXPOSED

Are you sure you are not Laix from NF?

Because I think I have seen him spamming that gif a million times.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Not to mention both the Scotty and Wilgy wagons seemed to appear in the last 2 hours or something. And that was weird. Thankfully we got Wilgy, but I couldn't help but think something fishy was going on.
It was almost like a... CFD.

UGH

Not to mention both the Scotty and Wilgy wagons seemed to appear in the last 2 hours or something. And that was weird. Thankfully we got Wilgy, but I couldn't help but think something fishy was going on.

Also I'm highly suspicious of all the Scotty voters. I can't believe this is 2016 and people still suspect him for day 1 posts.

He will always do that. Yes, it is annoying. DWI.

I had a civ read on Jay near the end of day 1, now that this came up.

Problem is that I can't remember what my thought process was at the time, just that I thought he was civ.

Gonna read his posts again lol.

Honestly I just avoid analysing anything Scotty says or does until the end of day 1. Because he is always random and illogical during that time, regrdless of alignment. His posts are just for laughing.

Pretty sure DF has posted a few times.

[ytubehd][/ytubehd]

Golden wrote:Mp, come back and just play like me, it's fun.

Don't think mp is scum. Not sure why I'm not consensus town yet?

Why do you think you should be consensus town?

You agree with me about "don't vote Jay" then immediately suggest we give as much power as pissble to Jay?

Im confus.

Oh yeah I totally forgot to explain my post about Quin.

Quin wrote:If I had a third vote, itd be for Scotty. His love for cherry tomatoes is all I need to put him at the top of my rainbow list.

I agree with you Luffy, about JJJ. While I didn't vote that way, Id suggest that one way to deal with a hard to read a character like him is to give him as much power as possible and see what he does with it. It looks like he'll be one of the prefects anyway, though.

I mean, this makes sense in my head at least.

I found this post to be somewhat uncommital. I didn't get whether Quin was agreeing with me or not.

But then he made more posts which felt more decisive so he kind of went to neutral read again.

Anyway, later.

I find myself agreeing with Mac's point on Dunny. And something about him just feels off. Like he is just overly-defensive. I don't feel good about voting for a new player on day 1, but it's the game.

Also I didn't like Nutella's perfectly reasonable post, so away with her.

These are my votes. I might be able to make some posts tomorrow, but not read or write any big ones, so I'm voting now. Good night.

Quin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MP is my top town read. I know frustration can come from either alignment, but it tends to come in different appearances and under different circumstances. MP blew up at the first sign of suspicion while he had no votes on him -- this is not how baddies tend to behave at all. That is how someone who is on edge outside a game behaves.

He was trying to get the thread moving in a productive direction, so he put some reads into the thread. He didn't force any red reads while he had none (baddies would force at least one). I think he'd be a dumb candidate for a duel and I don't envision myself supporting that any time soon.
I don't think that the way he responded initially is how a baddie acts, nor do I think it's how a civ acts. I think it's how someone who is very stressed out acts, and I don't think it's got anything to do with his alignment.

It's not his lack of red reads that I'm suspicious of. It's who he chose for his green reads. I agree with MacDougall when he not-so-delicately said that it looked like buddying.

Personally, I'm projecting my own kind of meltdown on MP, and this is not how my baddie self would react to early game pressure. If I was too busy to play and people were suspecting me too heavily, I'd just turn apathetic and stop posting. Because in a deep level, I know I had it coming. Civ me, however, would react how I described in my big green post.

MP is not me though, so I don't know if its a good idea to project myself on him, but after this episode, I just don't feel like I want to lynch his role at all.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Ok so I just saw MP's bigger post about being busy so what Quin said about him makes sense.

I've heard stories about baddie MP having meltdowns though, so I'm paranoid about that.
Don't you remember the Town MP Bean Dip Meltdown of 2015?
Not sure if I was in that game.
Economics.

Eh... wouldn't really call that a meltdown.

Turnip Head wrote:And damn nutella, that was quite a meaty post with lots of well-reasoned opinions. I like it, even though I'm not sure what to do with it yet

It had so many well-reasoned opinions in each paragraph I found myself skimming them.

Wonder is that was the intended reaction.

Jan wrote:
Scotty wrote:I'm not liking MM's contributions so far this game. He has expressed desire to be a prefect and...nothing else. 1/10 will not prefect.

Hey Jan, I remember playing with you at JTM and I remember you being more active over there. That the game is huge and is hard to keep track is a lame excuse not to give anything. What is "relevant" to your taste that hasn't been posted yet?

Oh hi there hunty, your name rings a bell.

However, I don't remember your playing style. I remembered Wilgy well because we were both scum in that one game we had.

I'll now pay more attention to you though. :P
And in response, what I read so far was just pretty much banter over who wants to be Prefect the most and in practice, it turned out to be a popularity contest. It's meaningless, what happens with these two that won it will be much more relevant than speculation. I cannot make out anything from you, JJJ and that third person getting elected prefects, really.

On my activity, I remember that using excessive gifs pissed off people a lot, so I have to keep it down a bit. I'm not really familiar with this type of mafia game too, so i'd rather be passive for a while and see what happens to get a general grip Also, speaking on JTM 90s Kids, I got much more active at the end of that game when less people were around and throughout most of the game I just pretty much responded to stuff once in a while. That's how I usually act when I'm new to a mafia community.

However, from my general experience of over 20 mafia games played and 3 hosted, Day One lynches are usually pretty much wild guesses and there's more meta and philosophy to them than necessary. I'm rather poor at guessing who is scum, I'd rather have some evidence first. Besides, literally nothing arose my suspicions yet. I reread everything while I'm writing this post and the only thing that made me raise an eyebrow was someone that said "civ reads tend to be more accurate than scum reads". LOL

You need to play a game with Laix some time.

MovingPictures07 wrote:OK, Mac, if you're going to make fun of me, that's fine, whatever. You're proving my point in that yes, I'm always fucking busy, and I'm pretty sure we've never even played a game together where I was civilian because I say the same shit every game I'm in, but whatever. I should have listened to my better judgment when it told me it would be a mistake to get back into mafia, especially now. This game infuriates me way too much; I'm getting out now before I waste more of my time on this. This game is just not fun enough for me to continue, and I'm going to bow out before I can cause any more drama.

Wow MP, sorry for that. I know how you are feeling now, it's just like how I was at that Turf Wars game.

RL happens and you are busy but you kind of have time to play some mafia, so you come anyway. And since you have so little time, you plan your gameplay to be simple and easy: just come, reply some posts, make your reads and leave. But this is mafia, and you inevitably get into a debate eventually, with some super-civ who is playing at their best game.

So debate keeps happening and you want it to end but you have to win because you wouldn't have it any other way. And as the RL stress keeps pilling up and the debate gets heated you start blaming that player you are arguing with for all of it. You think "does this guy even know what I'm having to sacrifice to come here argue with him"? Until eventually you blow up, and the game becomes a source of anger and suffering instead of fun.

(tbh I'm just talking about what happened to myself so sorry if you are different)

Imo, just leave until it feels like you are safe to come back again. Don't fret, the site will still be here when you do (you own it, after all

). We will be waiting for you.

Nerolunar wrote:Im in another game that is very dramatic at the moment, so I will be flying under the radar for now.

There is some good discussion going on though.

MP's reaction to the slight suspicions against him over his GTHs looks way too defensive for my taste. *Ping*

Thanks for repeating my point.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Ok so I just saw MP's bigger post about being busy so what Quin said about him makes sense.

I've heard stories about baddie MP having meltdowns though, so I'm paranoid about that.
Don't you remember the Town MP Bean Dip Meltdown of 2015?

Not sure if I was in that game.

MacDougall wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:My opinion is that we should just lynch the people we want to see dead the most. But in case of endgame situations, putting a warrior on the battlefield against a strategist just to get the strategist killed sounds like a smart move. I mean, look at those odds. Of course, that's assuming we know who are the warrior and the strategist.
Can you show me a circumstance where we would? Is there something obvious I have missed?

- Player survives a duel multiple times (warrior)
- Night actions happen in a weird way and someone is suspicious.
- Someone who shouldn't survive a lynch/kill, survives a lynch/kill
- A player hints (iirc, Epi hardly modkills players for hinting. Though he will find a way of punishing them somehow).

And so on.

This is role madness. Anything can reveal players. The fact this game has a hard no-reveal rule damps that effect, but doesn't remove it from the game.

By endgame most people will have a rough idea of at least someone else (except for me, I'm terrible at catching those hints).

Bass_the_Clever wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Assertion: townies are more likely to think outside the box when it comes to game mechanics, and it sometimes gets them into trouble. I think Boomslang is the example here -- when presented with this unique dueling mechanic, he thought outside the box the same way I did and arrived upon an idea that has a theoretical application even if it might not be the most practical. I might also include Golden in this, because his idea was to pit UTR players against each other instead of merely suspect against suspect. I don't quite agree with that method, but I don't fault him for proposing it.

Baddies however love these moments, because it gives them an easy opportunity to jump into a discussion and bring the more "logical" perspective -- in this case: "shouldn't we just have suspects duel each other?" This is to say that I am more suspicious of the players who have responded to Boomslang with incredulity (Turnip Head and Dunny) than I am of Boomslang himself. Sorsha can also apply, though she was less critical and more personal in her delivery.

The unique idea tends to come from the townie.

The critical response and recommendation that simpler methods be employed are more likely to come from the baddie.
Let me get this straight, you believe that a mafia player would suggest that we should vote for two mafia in the duel polls and a civ player is more likely to suggest we take a risk?
Yes, absolutely. The former option is obvious and easy, the latter is not.
I mean I agree one is easy and one isn't but I feel like a good mafia player would push for the civ against mafia option.

That kind of plan never actually happens (at least not this early) and the baddie gets to appear as the voice of reason.

I don't think this is a reliable way of spotting baddies though, but I certainly think well of people who take stupid risks like that this early.

MacDougall wrote:
Dunny wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MacDougall wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Hey I don't get this bit. How does this work in execution?
I'm not sure it does. Volunteerism here might actually equate to an infodump, and if not it could expose the volunteer to a night kill. My concern is that it will be really hard to eliminate the Nanman faction with their four warriors just by pitting suspect against suspect over and over. They have a very strong dueling arrangement with their 4 eight sided dice. I think my idea would probably only have an application in the event that there is a significant, consensus baddie read. In that instance eliminating the player would be easiest if they are pitted against a warrior -- even if a civilian warrior volunteering (hence the pseudo-infodump).
If someone volunteered to battle a consensus Mafia read I would actually be quite suspicious of that player. Would be a fantastic way to bus for cred would it not? I doubt many civilians would nominate themselves, nor do I think it would be a good idea for a civilian to risk themselves like that, even if they did win, when there is a better alternative. Also you're basically removing the voting right for the civs and the voting risk for the Mafia of all the players by coordinating the votes that way.

Fundamentally, the idea is just nowhere near as good as just putting the top two consensus reads together. It seems like a really convoluted strategy and I don't get it. Let everyone make their reads and vote, the top two battle. It's pure, it's good.
I don't necessarily disagree. It was my initial idea but I will probably be voting solely for suspects until further notice.

By the way, why do you want Wilgy and I to kill each other?
And here MacDougall has basically elaborated on my point, does that make him suspicious also?
I think you're doing that thing where you're defending yourself because you think you've been caught in an illogical manner and that it's not fair.

Oh boy I always do that when I'm bad.

Ok so I just saw MP's bigger post about being busy so what Quin said about him makes sense.

I've heard stories about baddie MP having meltdowns though, so I'm paranoid about that.

MP always gets crap. Yet he is usually very patient. He is brraking way faster than usual.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Yeah I dont get it either. If anything you look slightly suspicious to me.
Why?

Gut read. Will elaborate later after work.

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