The Syndicate

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:10 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:07 pm I think Quin is bad.

I'm currently deciding whether I'm more suspicious of his game mechanic posts or your opportune ISO at the end.
I assume you've said elsewhere why you believe he's bad, but quickly provide why you think so if you don't mind?

What is your beef with my investigation specifically? You have now implied I'm doing this opportunistically twice. I came into the thread, saw I had a few votes which I can't say I know the reasons for, and I have limited time to make a decision, so why the fuck would I ISO someone with no votes before someone with multiple?

I do think you could be doing it as a civ.

I just think it's too much of a coincidence.

Out of all things to deduce, you decide Quin has been bad all along, after not suspecting him for the rest of the day.

I don't do post by post analysis anymore. I used to do it, then I lost 7 consecutive games as a civ in the Syndicate. It taught me where my strengths lie, and it's not at dissecting someone's ISO like a science project. I prefer to try to spot one little detail everybody is missing.

I think Quin is bad.

I'm currently deciding whether I'm more suspicious of his game mechanic posts or your opportune ISO at the end.

Socky, I'm sorry if I'm wrong because you're awesome and I know you are so busy.

But I can't help but feel this ISO of yours is staged.

I could see you voting for Quin at the end of it as you wrote it. Because that's the self prervation vote you have to make.

So it's very suspicious that you come here near the end of the phase, ISO Quin, and slowly but steadly realize he has been bad all along. Seems like you don't want us to think this is just a self defense vote.

I'm not you, but if I were a civ, I'd just be blunt and say it was a self preservation vote.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:48 pm No, it's 1:15 left. According to your own 2 hours post above, DDL

Yeah this stuff is confusing.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:47 pm Prioritizing ISO digging into people with votes.

Oh, damn, NT still hasn't showed. Didn't even realize that. That sucks.

I'll look into Quin next.

Actually I'm wroing. You do have over an hour and I suck at tiemzones. Sorry.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:45 pm Fuck. I'm here. Sorry. This was the worst possible time for this game to start. I'm so behind; I think I left off on page 4 and it's now page 11.

You will be lynched in 15 minutes. Good luck.

I've been doing it for quite some time without realizing it and I suddenly got worried someone might be thinking "look at this asshole abusing his mod powers" so I apologize if I accidentally gave that impression"

I just realized the reason I'm allowed to edit posts in every game is because I'm a mod. I've been doing it to edit typos and the like, because I usually do that in the other site I play in.

I'll refrain from doing it from now on, for fairness sake.

2 hours left

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:03 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:01 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:23 pm 1. MP pressure voting me is a fucking joke. It's one thing for someone to pressure vote jevwho doesn't live in the same house as me, but cone on. You know I'm not even caught up to the thread, it's not like I'm lurking and hiding. It's a joke, and really easy. Don't get me wrong, it's not definitely suspicious it's just teally easy to look like he's doing something when he's not. Don't let him get away with such a soft pressure vote in the future without questioning it.
I'm pretty sure he did the same thing in a recent game and he was a civ.

Or you did it to him.

Not sure, I just recall you both voting for each other.
Yes he did this recently and it elicited a very strong suspicious response from me. Not because of the vote but because he specifically at that time said quiet daisy makes me nervous, when he knew perfectly well I hadn't had time to be in the thread. So the fact i was quiet shouldn't have been scary in any way. But his response to my very strong reaction to his post read civ to me and I moved my vote off him and didn't suspect him after that.

This is a different situation. I am not saying I suspect him. He did not say I made him nervous. I just think it was a lazy and easy vote. I don't suspect him for it, but I don't trust him either. I have no read on him yet. I jsut think in future games when he makes this move, you all should be asking him why. It will not move me for him to vote for me. So it's stupid and useless. So I can only wonder if he is doing it because of how it looks to everyone else, rather than for what he claims he is doing. Because I didn't come in here because of his vote, and I didn't post as a result of his vote either.

I'm finishing my ISO on DDL right now

I think you need to come to terms that you've married a scummy individual.

I always appreciate the discussion turning towards theory. Helps me spot the folks who are using it to blend.

(i. e. Quin)

This isn't a rainbow. Needs more green and purple.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:42 pmI don't like lynching no-posters on Day 1.

You're my new favorite player.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:39 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:35 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:17 pm MovingPictures isn't playing as his usual self. I've been town with him in both games we've played together, so this game seems off for him.
When was your last game with him. His playstyle has had a lot of changes in the last few years.
So are you saying that his playstyle looks like Civ MP?

I'm not sure. I've never learned to read MP well. I just spotted a possible misconception that I've seen people make before.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:17 pm MovingPictures isn't playing as his usual self. I've been town with him in both games we've played together, so this game seems off for him.

When was your last game with him. His playstyle has had a lot of changes in the last few years.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:54 pm Oh I see I’m joining a wagon

Still going ti keep my vote there but I don’t think we should let anyone become a consensus or avoid putting pressure on as many people as possible. Spread the love around. Lol

We have an 8-way lynch tie right now.

That is a lot of spread.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:46 pm What specifically is respectable about it?

It's the first rainbow list we've had in this game.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:44 pm Fake claiming is a legit strategy. I vehemently argue that, I feel done well, it can win the game for town.

Turnip Head and I assisted the cop (Daisy) in Arrested Development with fake cop claims which resulted in Dais being able to singlehandedly solve the entire game.

Fake claiming isn’t without risks, but I can’t fathom why anyone would argue against it in principle.

I'll have to give it to you. I don't think I've ever seen fake claiming as a civ being used in a good way.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =28&t=1358

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... f=28&t=799

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =27&t=1134

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =27&t=1217

Also I'm a very prolific host and I have a total of 11 games I either hosted or participated in creating. Only 1 of them here, but I intend to make it at least 4 before next year is over.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:55 pm DDL, what is your mafia history? How long have you played on each site?

Played a fun real life mafia night once in 2005.

Discovered it again in later 2014 at NF. Got addicted to it and have been playing it ever since.

Discovered the Syndicate around May 2015. Played a lot of games here, though not as much as NF.

I think I have about 15 games here and 30-40 at NF, give or take.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pmDragon

https://www.narutoforums.org/search/8347121/?page=7

How do I make a link

Not sure if you can link to your own searches. Just to pages from the thread, or posts from the thread.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:23 pm 1. MP pressure voting me is a fucking joke. It's one thing for someone to pressure vote jevwho doesn't live in the same house as me, but cone on. You know I'm not even caught up to the thread, it's not like I'm lurking and hiding. It's a joke, and really easy. Don't get me wrong, it's not definitely suspicious it's just teally easy to look like he's doing something when he's not. Don't let him get away with such a soft pressure vote in the future without questioning it.

I'm pretty sure he did the same thing in a recent game and he was a civ.

Or you did it to him.

Not sure, I just recall you both voting for each other.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:17 pm Why are you back peddling.

Because I doubt my own ability to read you. It's usually wrong.

Ok cool.

Though if you want an example in this site, I was bad in The Search for Quin

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 106&t=1405

But I died in like day 3, so not a perfect example.

Tell me if you guys have further problems at making that ISO, btw. I'm afraid you need to make an account, but after that it should be very straightforward. Just use the search button and pick the "search in this thread" option. Then start writing my name in the author field and the forum should complete it for you.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:57 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:54 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:59 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:47 pmAre you suuuuuuure that scale isn't 2-4? Because these reads look very soft.
It's day one, friendo. Anyone who says they feel confident about anything is lying.
The question was about whether you should be reading those people as more baddies than just 2-4, not about confidence. Right now it seems you are reading all of them as civs.
why does it seem like that to you?

If in a scale of civ-bad that goes from 0 to 10 everyone is 2-4, doesn't it mean they are all civs?

For example, there was this one game where I made a heartfelt apology to a player for a fight I had with him in a previous game. The apology was heartfelt, but I chose my words wisely to make other people watching think it was coming from a civ perspective.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:54 pm I'm not going through 83 pages of that game unless I can do ISO's, but I at see that his activity over there was more 'burst-like' than his scum game in Felt. His activity there was significantly lower and less involved. What's your scum game like DDL? I'll take your word for it.

I can't tell you what my scum game is like precisely because it was absolute garbage about a year ago and since then I've been trying to change it. I'm going to say what I've been trying to do.

I can tell you I make an effort to be friendly and honest, and say any thought that comes to my mind that helps me look town, so people believe I'm sincere. I'm a naturally empathetic person, so I make sure whenever I get the urge to act like a decent person, it's used to my advantage. I try to make my reads feel natural and I randomly make civ/baddie reads on everyone, with not much regard for whether it fulfills my scum agenda, because the point is looking like I'm acting naturally.

In the past I would look too careful and nervous, and people would catch it, so now I'm trying to flip a "cool" switch when I'm bad. I think it's working.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:11 pm
sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:05 pmKyle's post seems to be very careful, but there's also a fair amount of content and it's still early in the game to have concrete reads so I like that
i also want to point out, this is my first real mafia game in 3-4 years so i am still kind of in the awkwardly climbing back onto the horse stage

Yes to whoever asked this is common of Wilgy regardless of his alignment.
so he just.... does this? the whole game? every game?

Nos specifically this, but he likes to add in weird ways that vary each game.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:55 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:52 pm Quin is focusing so much on the merits of fake claiming I'm getting the feeling he's doing that as an excuse not to hunt baddies.

*votes Quin*
That conversation ended an hour ago. I've moved on.

Allow me to rephrase the sentence then.

Quin was focusing so much on the merits of fake claiming an hour ago I'm getting the feeling he was doing that as an excuse not to hunt baddies.

[mention]Kylemii[/mention]

There is, but you need to create an account first, I'm afraid.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:59 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:47 pmAre you suuuuuuure that scale isn't 2-4? Because these reads look very soft.
It's day one, friendo. Anyone who says they feel confident about anything is lying.

The question was about whether you should be reading those people as more baddies than just 2-4, not about confidence. Right now it seems you are reading all of them as civs.

Quin is focusing so much on the merits of fake claiming I'm getting the feeling he's doing that as an excuse not to hunt baddies.

*votes Quin*

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:47 pm @Dragon D. Luffy

please help me stalk you on naruto

please

Elaborate? What do you need?

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:27 pm Fake claiming provides decent cover for the real role to provide information, as far as I'm concerned. All parties just have to be smart about it, or yes, there will be a mess.

I don't suggest roles with ambiguous results out themselves ever.

One thing is fake claiming, the other is posting fake reads so once the cop dies the players know who they investigated.

The former is just confusing, the later can be a viable strategy. Though here the chance of a cop even existing is 25% so I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble.

Also i'm getting deja vu on the Sig thing. From other times where he did things that looked silly but he was just being himself.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:14 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:05 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:00 pmEach directed question pushes people in a specific way that puts pressure on them.
can you give some examples of this happening? I was noticing the exact opposite during my read but maybe you saw something i didnt?
He pressured MP about the lack of scumreads.
Pushed Dunya for questioning him.
Didn't give LC any slack for his D1 No Lynch bit.
Pushed Sig over his cop-claim bit.
Voted out in the thread to make a statement.

It's more of a tone-read to me, but I feel like DDL is going around and flicking everyone on the nose. MP is bad about not doing scumreads. LC was getting townreads from his gambit. Same for Sig and his asking the cop to claim.

The generally towniest or most dangerous players in the game are making things happen, and DDL is going around to bop them on the nose. Not a huge amount, but hey, it's D1. And I want to keep that around.

For all it's worth I'm actually reading LC as moderate civ now.

(it has 2500 posts. Enjoy)

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:07 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:03 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:00 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:50 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:52 pm 3 minutes later:

Nah, DDL's good. I'm going to vote to make Sig our first wagon of the day.
Why is DDL good?
Check his ISO. He's been very straightforward, unafraid to say what he thinks. Each directed question pushes people in a specific way that puts pressure on them. I agree with his way of looking at things. From what little I've seen, DDL isn't someone I want lynched D1 this game.

He's not confirmed town or anything. I'm just not wanting to lynch him

linki: good question

linki'd again, but I'm going to go ahead and post.
His straight-forwardness is something I'm used to from town DDL (though I haven't seen scum DDL yet). It keeps himself in the spotlight, which in itself isn't something I'd readily expect from a baddie.
Actually, I think I have seen scum DDL once. He died Day 1 though. I remember him being more absent than he is here. @Dragon D. Luffy, any idea which game I'm talking about? I want to fact check.

Moongose's pants's game.

Though if you want an example where I survived longer, I give you this:

https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/di ... p.1112953/

Had my entire (6 person) team eliminated by day 5, and then had to fight in a 15 vs 1 battle. Survived until Day 10, when the last 3 civs decided to lynch me with 30 minutes left for votes to lock.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:03 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:00 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 3:50 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:52 pm 3 minutes later:

Nah, DDL's good. I'm going to vote to make Sig our first wagon of the day.
Why is DDL good?
Check his ISO. He's been very straightforward, unafraid to say what he thinks. Each directed question pushes people in a specific way that puts pressure on them. I agree with his way of looking at things. From what little I've seen, DDL isn't someone I want lynched D1 this game.

He's not confirmed town or anything. I'm just not wanting to lynch him

linki: good question

linki'd again, but I'm going to go ahead and post.
His straight-forwardness is something I'm used to from town DDL (though I haven't seen scum DDL yet). It keeps himself in the spotlight, which in itself isn't something I'd readily expect from a baddie.

Scum DDL is a very rare sight in the Syndicate, for reasons only the RNG gods know.

I think I've been scum maybe 3 times here.

For that matter, I believe the sweet spor for claiming is 2 scum, or 1 scum and a few townies.

But I believe this matter is very subjective and I don't think I can prove what the sweet spot for claiming is. And is not grounds for lynching someone. The problem is when I see someone asking for a cop to claim.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:00 pm So you basically agree with me then, buuuuut you're lynching me.

I made my case of 1 not fake claiming and 2. only claiming if you have a red check to be very clear. However, this is obviously speed just messing around and poking me.

Also my original sites were super heavy on role claiming, games that allow claiming are my bread and butter. This is quite literally the best strategy for a watcher/cop/info role to use if claiming is allowed. Otherwise you end up sitting on a red check for to long and the other players either miss it or the mafia can manipulate your posts after death, I've done it successfully countless times.

Whether the cop claiming is a good thing or not is irrelevant to my read on you.

What forms my read on you is the fact you are fishing for the cop's role. I think that is suspicious.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:48 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:27 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:15 am
sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:10 am Right now I'd rather lynch a player who isn't contributing then someone who is, unless we have a strong reason to suspect they're mafia, and I'm not seeing anything very obvious yet.

Also and I should've brought this up sooner, but If we have a cop and they get a red check I suggest they role claim immediately, with only 3 mafia members sacrificing the cop to get a mafia member is worth it, also other civs should take advantage of role claiming if they have useful information that will catch mafia members, AND I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH AS A CIV DONT FAKE CLAIM COP!!!!!!!!!!
Hello this is cop.

We have a three day D1. I don't like you pushing toward a non-contributer with such a hefty timeframe. Look at the reads in the thread. We have plenty of time to find a scummy swabbie today.
Why the hell did you just claim?
AND I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH AS A CIV DONT FAKE CLAIM COP!!!!!!!!!!

That was fake?

What the hell?

I mean, you could have said "EDT" isntead of "EST", but I've noticed you Americans like to pretend everyone knows when your DST starts.

/rant

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:32 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:30 am When does the poll lock? I'm not seeing a time here.
6 PM EST tomorrow. I am making this post at 11:30 AM, so the poll closes about 30.5 hours from now.

The problem with you people just naming timezones is that I have no way of guessing whether you are using daylight saving time or not.

sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:23 am I see nothing wrong with the cop claiming when they've got a red check. Why wouldn't they claim? I'd also like to add in if the watcher targets a player who ends up targeting someone who dies they should also claim it. We might have lost a powerful civ role, but one civ is worth one mafia member no matter what power the civ has.

One cop is more valuable than just "one civ".

Either way, I don't want to argue this. I'm more interested in the fact you are trying to get the cop to clim early rather than later. Mafia's #1 priority should be to find the cop, assuming there is one, so this is line with what mafia would want.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:15 am
sig wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:10 am Right now I'd rather lynch a player who isn't contributing then someone who is, unless we have a strong reason to suspect they're mafia, and I'm not seeing anything very obvious yet.

Also and I should've brought this up sooner, but If we have a cop and they get a red check I suggest they role claim immediately, with only 3 mafia members sacrificing the cop to get a mafia member is worth it, also other civs should take advantage of role claiming if they have useful information that will catch mafia members, AND I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH AS A CIV DONT FAKE CLAIM COP!!!!!!!!!!
Hello this is cop.

We have a three day D1. I don't like you pushing toward a non-contributer with such a hefty timeframe. Look at the reads in the thread. We have plenty of time to find a scummy swabbie today.

Why the hell did you just claim?

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