The Syndicate

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I mentioned Fuzz at least once before that, marmot.
I did a search on your posts with Fuzz as a parameter.

I forgot that it doesn't check for quote names.

If you want an explanation on how I read him:

- I read Fuzz as bad for his unwillingness to scumhunt.
- I pointed that out and voted for him.
- He asked me to ask him questions.
- I asked him to post his reads.
- He posted a wall of reads. It didn't convince me, but didn't make me suspect him more.
- We got close to EoD and nobody had followed me on my Fuzz wagon. I switched back to gleam not to waste my vote.
- The CFD started. I opposed it because I didn't like the concept.
- Almost all the gleam voters siwtched to Fuzz. I siwtched along because Fuzz had always been one of my suspects.

a2thezebra wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:A Sig baddie lynch would be a strong indicator for Golden being town.

And it could be argued that getting a realiable read on Golden is more useful to town on the long run than lynching a baddie, imo.
I would like to see that argument.

A Scum Golden who can't be read is a steamroll waiting to happen.

I don't think I'm lynching Sig today, though.

I mentioned Fuzz at least once before that, marmot.

A Sig baddie lynch would be a strong indicator for Golden being town.

And it could be argued that getting a realiable read on Golden is more useful to town on the long run than lynching a baddie, imo.

A Nero bad flip would be a strong indicator of LC being civ.

A nero civ lynch would indicate nothing.

As for Nero, it's more of a gut read, but it feels like he is not trying to play as hard as his post count suggests he could. Similar to how I felt about Fuzz, actually.

Nero.

Sig is giving me "too scummy to be scum" vibes, and I think I have an history of being right when it comes to these vibes. Nero is not leading, but at the speed these wagons are changing it's still possible to lynch him.

a2thezebra wrote:Ask yourself DDL, was sig's not-lynching of Fuzz unnatural? Did it even feel unnatural?

linki @ Matt -

That's the thing though, it felt natural... as someone who is seeing their teammate get lynched and wants to save them.

It didn't feel natural for a civ. He was too worried about Fuzz dieing when he had never given any prior indication of reading him as civ.

a2thezebra wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:And my point has been made, thank you very much. Maybe a lack of skimming would clear the fog on that issue.
I'm looking at your posts. i'm not seeing a single one where you explain why you voted for LC.
Others have explained it for me. I'm playing a secondhand game.

Translation: you are making a point not to ever be an asset to town, so you can avoid being lynched in a game where surviving isn't even the goal.

Beautiful.

Turnip Head wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
a2thezebra wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Don't feel like lynching LC though. It's Sig or Nero.
You are so wrong. You are so, so, so wrong.
Stop spamming one liners and make your point.

I'm an open minded person, but I haven't seen any convincing arguments against LC yet.

(though I skimmed a lot of shit so yeah).
How about the fact that he's fine with a sig lynch despite the fact he voted in defense of Fuzz much the same way that sig did? That strikes me as malicious. He hasn't overtly gone after sig, but he said he's okay with that lynch, and he's not trying to discuss sig to see if he's town or not. He wants that thing to just slide right through.

I don't know, I think a player can be self aware enough to know they did something wrong by mistake while other people did it for malice.

I find that better than what the likes of Sig and Quin are doing: OMGUSing anyone who accused them for not lyncing Fuzz.

Your point on not discussing things is valid though. Though Nero is doing roughly the same imo.

a2thezebra wrote:And my point has been made, thank you very much. Maybe a lack of skimming would clear the fog on that issue.

I'm looking at your posts. i'm not seeing a single one where you explain why you voted for LC.

Open-minded doesn't equal having free time.

a2thezebra wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Don't feel like lynching LC though. It's Sig or Nero.
You are so wrong. You are so, so, so wrong.

Stop spamming one liners and make your point.

I'm an open minded person, but I haven't seen any convincing arguments against LC yet.

(though I skimmed a lot of shit so yeah).

Like, if Sig is bad there should be a BTSC screaming at him right now.

Don't feel like lynching LC though. It's Sig or Nero.

Sig is being so ubleavably scummy I'm having second thoughts.

Should I switch to Nero?

@Soneji

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewforum.php?f=156

Just click the POLLS thread.

sig wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I think I'm gonna make sure I don't come during the last hour just in case there is another CFD.

I've had enough of those for 2016.

Why when the last one went so well? Why avoid them?

Just because a russian roulette went good for you once doesn't mean it's wise to keep doing it over and over.

Also I recall you opposing it. Why the 180º?

I think I'm gonna make sure I don't come during the last hour just in case there is another CFD.

I've had enough of those for 2016.

Did anyone notice chaindeath just voted for Nero?

Scotty wrote:All you people that get uncomfortable any time a "train" happens- why? Is there any time you would be comfortable with a train? 6 votes does not a train make anyway, so I don't see the reservation here. It's not runaway yet.

Yet.

But so far, literally every time someone gets a lead of 2-3 votes, someone comes out of the woodwork and exclaims that they "feel uncomfortable with the train".

Sometimes, the train is going to the station and it will be right on time.

Dude it's the Syndicate. Mafia has a what.... 90% win rate here? I'm always uncomfortable with any lynch.

Matt wrote:I'm not sure where I'm voting but I think the sig train is a bad one.

Could be wrong, but I figure, why is sig still making accusations at Golden? I'd think if sig had teamies, they would be telling him that accusing Golden at this point is just wrong and foolish so please stop. Haha.

I think sig is civvie. I dunno where I'm putting my vote, though. I've been reading the current thread off and on, but still have like 10 pages to catch up on.

Part of me is afraid this is actually true.

Thinking of switching to Nero.

Decisions decisions.

At this point I've given up trying to make sense of Soneji.

Specially in Syndicate games.

sig wrote:Wow the voters on me are so conspiratorial as is BK. I also think it is so funny Golden is completely ignoring LC vote and actions yet because I did the same thing he did PLUS being active I'm scum? I also like how LC is joining the wagon agaisnt people who voted to save Fuzz or for Ika just like he did. LC is mafia imo as is Golden.

There are only 5 mafias left in the game you know (maybe 4 if we're lucky).

Okay, skimming LC's posts, I can say that, if he is bad, he plays a very safe bad game. He is aware of his Day 2 vote being suspicious so he doesn't confront the "town leaders" and just admits it's bad. He seems pretty rational and chill. And his reasoning for opposing the Fuzz lynch wasn't really wrong, though I don't completely agree with it.

I can see a cop playing like that, but I can also perfectly see it from a town standpoint. As in, he has his read on Nero that makes sense and is playing in a way not to be a protagonist, but just to be helpful.

Also if he is bad, Nero is almost surely civ, and vice-versa, barring some outlandish bussing.

I don't suspect him more than Nero or Sig though, so I don't feel like lynching him.

Golden wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Golden wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I feel like if I have to pursue another gleam lynch I'm gonna have an aneurism.
Do you feel like it would be a good lynch? would be ironic if heaps of us shifted from one cop to another lol.
I do. And that's really possible. Could lead to some interesting information too.

But I'm having nightmares of the times I pushed lynches on a single player for half of the game only to have them flip civ. I don't feel like doing that again.
Ah, see, I think you need more arrogance

(I think my arrogance is more a front... for knowing you HAVE to lynch someone no matter what. Take sig, for example. He cast the vote that 'saved' Fuzz. How can we ever get to end game without ever lynching him? At some point, he is going to be lynched, you know? That's just TOO objectively suspicious.)

I know I keep coming back to that game (what can I do, it was a great game), but that is the EXACT logic that made the civs lose Economics. We made a list of players who HAD to be lynched early on and went through them like a checklist. All you had to do was insert one more name in the list and you won.

That game actually taught me to never believe a specific player has to be lynched for the game to progress. It's never too late to change reads.

Golden wrote:So a view from people he hasn't played with would be excellent.

I think he looks bad, but there is a little voice in my head saying "playstyle". Like, his flip-floppy ways and the fact he doesn't seem to be very involved in the game could be bad, but could also be just playstyle.

Silverwolf wrote:
Silverwolf wrote:
Quin wrote:I think I'm in info vomit mode here, but I've just thought of something worth considering.

Could ika be the don? He can only be lynched if the majority are from his own family, and since he had the most votes total, it's possible that the loan shark had nothing to do with this, and he just wasn't lynched because of the role criteria.
No, I highly doubt ika is a don.
To expland on this, I would expect the don to be playing super obvious town. Based on that alone, it isn't ika.

I dunno, I always try to play super obvious town and results are pretty variable.

Golden wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:What I mean is, try to look a little more like you are aware you could be wrong. It shouldn't take 48 hours of pressuring for someone to make you admit that.
Here is something you have to understand about me. You spend the first year of your legal career having words like "I think" deleted from everything you write. My opinions will be expressed as facts, because it is how I am trained to write. The facts of how I see the game. I expect everyone to understand that they are my opinions, unless there is a role that knows everything at which they think I am hinting. Because obviously I do not actually know very much.

Oh you are a lawyer. I think you can be excused then.

For now.

So the lynch is between the one who is always scum, and the one who is always scummy. Interesting.

sig wrote:Obviously I thought Fuzz was civ, and in fact I said so in thread.

Can you give me an example from before the CFD started?

Golden wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I feel like if I have to pursue another gleam lynch I'm gonna have an aneurism.
Do you feel like it would be a good lynch? would be ironic if heaps of us shifted from one cop to another lol.

I do. And that's really possible. Could lead to some interesting information too.

But I'm having nightmares of the times I pushed lynches on a single player for half of the game only to have them flip civ. I don't feel like doing that again.

What I mean is, try to look a little more like you are aware you could be wrong. It shouldn't take 48 hours of pressuring for someone to make you admit that.

@Golden

Mafia has made me paranoid. I think that's a good thing, imo.

I think you need to work on your presentation of reads better though. You have been giving me an arrogant vibe, specially since right after the lynch. And I hate arrogance with a passion. Please do not take this as an insult, just a criticism.

I spent half of college doing research on Computational Fluid Dynamics, and now you people come and turn CFD in a mafia acronym. I can't help but giggle every time I have to use it.

Also I have a problem with your opposing of the CFD:

sig wrote:
Golden wrote:Serge and Fuzz votes both opportunistic, I'd be open to either of them too.

Serge another new player?

linki: Good point from Sloonie, however I can also see what he means CFD usually are lead by mafia imo. It has saved me more then once getting worked up then someone else suggesting it

The previous post from Sloonei, which I belioeve is the one you were referring to in the link, is this one:

Sloonei wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.
I don't feel great about any of the options (I feel decent about Epi, okay about ika, a little resistant about Gleam) and a number of my strongest town reads have now stated a similar sentiment.

I can read this as a cop who is nervous that the changing tide will sweep away one of his partners.

So... "good point"? It feels to me that you didn't completely oppose the idea of CFD. You were pretty on the fence. Then they pick Fuzz and you start panicking?

sig wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Reading on the end of the day 2.

sig wrote:Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.
Is it just me or this post was typed really fast? Look at the typing errors.
I'd rather not see my typing errors, though it is probably giving Epi a heart attack. :P

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Again here. Right after ika calls him bad. He types this really fast.

Notice how this isn't a regular thing, Sig is perfectly capable of writing better constructed post in other situations.
Thank you? I think.

Why do you bring this up? EOD was close and I was typing quickly to get my points across are you saying this is an alignment indicator or? Your case agaisnt me has little to no bearing it seems your just tone reading and saying I'm bad since I was typing fast to get my point across? That makes no sense what so ever. I'll address Golden's points in a second, but you seem super scummy. Tell me what happened to your Gleam suspicions?

WIll you cut with the OMGUS, plz? Not everyone who votes for you must be bad.

I posted the quotes about spelling errors because I felt nobody else had pointed that. There are so many other points about you being bad in this game I felt no need to repeat in detail. Instead I summed up everything in a post.

You feel like you were trying to put down a fire. Tell me, did you actually think Fuzz was a civ during that lynch?

Linki: why don't you vote for Golden then? You have been calling his bad over and over since Day 2, I'm not seeing your vote.

I feel like if I have to pursue another gleam lynch I'm gonna have an aneurism.

Yeah I had that feeling about Sig. He was conspiracy theorizing at every step, while Quin seemed more focused on his suspicion of me.

Quin wrote:Well, I've completely run out of things to argue my EoD2 actions with, so have at it. If you have something new you want to discuss, feel free to do so.

I feel as though this is either a not-so-subtle orchestrated attempt from the mafia to have me lynched, or else a bunch of civs who are tunneling on EoD2 specifically and making a mistake in looking at my actions in that moment, and not considering my actions previous to the fact. People keep saying 'I'll ISO Quin' but it's yet to happen outside of a Fuzz context.

ISOs are annoying. And I've found them to be extremely susceptible to confirmation bias.

Trust me, you don't want people who already suspect you doing ISOs on you.

I have a similar problem, but with pants. I'm very tall and very skinny. As such, it's hard to find pants of my height that are not too wide.

Golden wrote:OK, loook, DDL - at the end of the game, if any of the list of six civilians I said were 'black and white civs' are not, I've already said I will eat a camel.

For me, it's black and white. It's not an approach. You've taken it that way. You've taken it as me saying 'no-one would bus', which I've never said. For me, every single read I've made has come from the conduct of the individual players concerned, not from some kind of 'approach'.

i'm not discussing this matter with you again unless I need to for game purposes. I'm getting emotionally involved and you seem to be too. This won't end well.

Turnip Head wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I'll never accept the existance of a failproof method to finding mafia.

I think seeing each players reactions to the lynch is valuable. Labeling them as bad just because they opposed it is not. I need more details than that. Actual posts, actual reading of their intents, observing their thought proccesses.

Sig looks bad for the tone of his posts. Quin doesn't look bad because I see where he was coming from. I'm actualy trying to understand how each one of them was thinking.
I disagree that sig's tone makes him look bad. He looks like normal opinionated sig. Look at his posts from the perspective that he's town and that he thought someone was being saved. Is there any inconsistency there? He just happened to be wrong about the result.

Hmm I don't know. You have a point, but would he be that distressed if it was just some random person being lynched? Had he read Fuzz as civ before that?

I'll admit I was pretty angry at the end of that day myself, though. I had to force to stop posting because I felt like punching all the parties involved.

I'll keep thinking, might change the vote again if another good target appears.

I'm gonna stop this discussion before someone has to call the hosts/MoD to stop it, because it's starting to look like the case.

Dude you said, and I quote: "you damn well sure this is black and white".

If that is not draconian I'm not sure what it is.

I'll never accept the existance of a failproof method to finding mafia.

I think seeing each players reactions to the lynch is valuable. Labeling them as bad just because they opposed it is not. I need more details than that. Actual posts, actual reading of their intents, observing their thought proccesses.

Sig looks bad for the tone of his posts. Quin doesn't look bad because I see where he was coming from. I'm actualy trying to understand how each one of them was thinking.

*team

Golden wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Heck, I still do, I think it's russian roulette at best.
I don't understand, especially if you are town, why you keep saying this. It is russian roulette at worst. At best, it's an opportunity to get half the baddie team to out themselves. If you pick the right target and move from a whole lot of town wagons to a baddie one with nearly no time left, it is one of the most extraordinarily effective and reliable strategies that exists. Even if you pick the wrong target, you might be able to learn a lot from who jumped, especially if it turns out one of the prior wagons that existed was actually on a baddie.

I can't think of many tactics that have as much opportunity to create as much information.

PS I don't think anyone has asked me how I feel about Scotty but I feel good about Scotty.

Assuming half of the baddie thing is incapable of quick thinking.

Scotty wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:

Black Rock do you have any thoughts on Scotty?
No on ever asks me how I feel about Scotty

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