The Syndicate

Sig.

Here is the drill. i'm not fully convinced at my Golden suspicion. While I believe it's very possible that Golden could be bussing (I always assume there is no limit to what baddie Golden can do), and while his draconian approach to the lynch result is stupid at best and opportunistic at worse, I'm finding it hard to justify how he is actually bad in this game. The fact he could be doesn't mean he is. As such, I'm willing to give him more time.

Also I don't like how fast the Golden wagon grew. I was expecting more resistance when I was writing that post. There was resiatance, but the people being attacked by Golden and Sloonei jumped on the OMGUS train too fast for my tastes. SW is a civ read of mine, but Quin is a neutral one. And Sig has been also saying Golden is bad without actually voting for him.

Also upon reading the day 2 end more care, I can see a tone of despair in Sig's reaction to the lynch. He seemed on the fence about the CFD, until it targeted Fuzz and he freaked out. I can buy the case on him being bad.

Plus, it gives me the perfect chance to get a better read on Golden. If Sig flips bad, I'm willing to read him as civ. If he flips civ... I'll think about it.

As for the other main suspects, Quin has some bad pings here and there with some OMGUS posts, but I don't think his EoD2 looked really bad. Enrique's looked worst, but I'm skeptical of suspecting players who weren't able to keep enough focus in the game, to the point Enrique was even asking to be lynched at some point. I'll give booms time to prove himself.

Still need to read LC.

Quin wrote:I don't see how this matters. There was like 30 minutes left in the day when the CFD got rolling so naturally he would feel rushed to say what he needed to.

Why was he rushed? It shows he was possibly emotionally distressed at what was going on. It's possible for the day to be almost over and for one not to be distressed, and just take the time to say whatever needs to be said. 30 minutes is a lot.

Turnip Head wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:This post looks better. He's no longer defending Fuzz.

I also think his subsequent explanations after the lynch, here and here read as much more convincing and believable responses than any of Quin's. I'm still feeling a bit uneasy about gleam, but he's not presently in my top tier of suspects.

Arguably opposing the lynch for a while then being okay when Fuzz already has a bandwagon on his back reeks to me as classic bussing. Specially when he didn't even vote for him.

Is this not what you did? Except you did vote for him :P

I never opposed a lynch of Fuzz. I was one of the first people to suspect him in the game, I started a lynch on him and switched back to gleam when nobody wanted too.

I opposed the CFD. Heck, I still do, I think it's russian roulette at best. But once the CFD directed the lynch from one of my top 2 suspects to the other one, I went along. it was that or ika, and I didn't want to lynch ika.

sig wrote:Thanks for saying I should be lynched, why not make a case why you shouldn't be? Also if I said his name wrong sorry not really a big deal when speed typing no need to get huffy about it

And know They are saying since I'm going agaisnt the Fuzz lynched I should be lynched next before he even flips classic scum techinicque to try and get someone to shut up and stop talking in fear of getting lynched and I very much don't appreciate Ika using such underhanded tactics if he is civ

@DDL quote your reasoning please


Linki: I dislike the speed of this wagon I dislike how quicly everyone jumped on it, I dislike both Silver's and Ikas posts. The lack of good reasoning and the fact no one ever voiced anything about fuzz until know.

Again here. Right after ika calls him bad. He types this really fast.

Notice how this isn't a regular thing, Sig is perfectly capable of writing better constructed post in other situations.

Reading on the end of the day 2.

sig wrote:Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

Is it just me or this post was typed really fast? Look at the typing errors.

Sloonei wrote:This post looks better. He's no longer defending Fuzz.

I also think his subsequent explanations after the lynch, here and here read as much more convincing and believable responses than any of Quin's. I'm still feeling a bit uneasy about gleam, but he's not presently in my top tier of suspects.

Arguably opposing the lynch for a while then being okay when Fuzz already has a bandwagon on his back reeks to me as classic bussing. Specially when he didn't even vote for him.

Catching up.

[quote=Sloonei]I don't know who Fuzz is quoting here, but whoever it is gets a slight town ping from me. I'm not sure how to feel about his interactions with Turnip Head down the stretch yesterday. Fuzz kept telling him to vote for him. I interpreted this at the time as Fuzz feeling comfortable that he wasn't going to be lynched, so if someone didn't know where to put their vote, they could just throw it away on him. I'm not sure what to make of this strategy, but I am still slightly inclined to feel like that's what he was doing.[/quote]

ME! ME!

Thanks for the slight town ping. I'm always pleased to serve.

(seriously though, that ISO is awesome. Good job.)

Back to catching up.

I'm gonna look at Enrique and LC and at night. Maybe a few others. I'm not completely confident about this Golden lynch. I think I've done a fine job at proving he is capable of what i'm saying he did, but not that he actually did it. I need to see if I find other suspects though.

I don't think Quin's explanation for his Day 2 behavior is that hard to understand:

- He saw people talking about starting a new wagon. He was okay with the idea. At this point, he didn't know what "CFD" meant. He was expecting a new lynch where everyone explained their suspicion, not a collective act of turning brains off.
- I opposed it. He thought I was full of shit. To be honest, the argument I used was kind of shitty.
- The lynch on Fuzz started. He didn't suspect Fuzz so didn't want to lynch him. Also he was expecting something less rushed and more well explained. His BS detectors went bananas. He started voicing against it.

In a way, it's kind of the inverse of my reaction to the CFD, in which I opposed the whole thing from the start, but since I had been suspecting Fuzz before, I was okay with the lynch itself.

Nerolunar wrote:@ DDL Can you point a finger at something that makes my post give off a weird vibe? I will try to answer as well as possible

Later.

Sloonei wrote:The last point is the one on which I disagree with you most strongly. I was in the exact same boat as Golden post-Fuzz. I still am. I just didn't show my enthusiasm as much in the thread. Shortly after the flip I tried to go for a jog but I was too amped and couldn't control my breathing at all and ended up wearing myself out about halfway through my route. If you're reading me as town, then I have to say that Golden's attitude after the Fuzz lynch was nearly identical to my own. If that means you're gonna read both of us as scum, so be it.

No, you two are different. When I called you out on using absolutes, you backed down. When I called Golden out on the same thing, he went "You damn sure this is absolute, there is no way I could be wrong!" When I posted my ISO on Golden, you didn't spout this black and white crap he is saying since the lynch, about how the people in the lynch are 100% confirmed civ. Instead, you trying to convince me voting for Golden is bad because those 3 people you mentioned are more suspicious. "More", instead of "100%". You want to use the results the CFD provided, but because you believe in their statistical power, not because you are sure you just won the game.

You are being rational. Golden is not. You are trying to solve the game. Golden is trying to rush it.

Quin wrote: breakdances away

I don't think Golden wants to get me lynched.

Nice find lol.

Or they just have a hidden ability we are not aware of, which likely doubles as the way to kill the don I've been looking for since the start.

I think that was probably the 20% arrest that (thankfully) failed.

The secret role is submitted be the player. It could be anything, from "bulletproof roleblocker investigator" to "Zombie John Nash".

Golden

I'm open to lynch other people too, though. Let's see how the day progresses.

Golden wrote:@DDL - I simply disagree. The behaviours of all of those five people makes me see them as confirmed town.

None of my busses are simply 'going with the flow'. In Economics, as I pointed out, I SET the flow. I realised TH had checked them, and I knew I had to bus them. Like - there was literally no way that I was going to stop them being lynched. They had been caught by the cop. They were gone.

You don't set the flow because you don't know when the cop will investigate your teammates. You know it is likely to happen, but it only becomes obvious when the cop posts his suspicions. Then you anticipate the flow and make sure you are one of the first people pushing the wagon.

Not so different from how you act here. You are very fast at reacting, and you make sure you are one of the first people in the flow. When TH mentions CFDs, you get ready to react to one that hits a teammate. When multiple people suspect Fuzz, you get ready to vote for him.

S~V~S wrote:What do you think of the ika voters? Or do you only suspect the people who voted for the baddie?

I feel like answering this even though it's not for me.

I like Quin's defense. Felt like legit "looking for bullshit" behavior. Nerolunar gives me a weird vibe but up to this point I haven't seen anything terrible against him. Gleam has been worse than bad until now, but the lynch result has to give him some cred so I'm giving him a pass for now. Soneji I'm torn between seeing his lack of activity for classic Soneji, or being bummed that this is low even for his standards. I can see myself lynching him if he doesn't step up soon. Serge is fishy, it feeels like he's in the sidelines. Enrique has been fishy the whole game and last night didn't help. No idea about LC, I need to look at his posts. Sig feels legit.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I know you didn't add DDL to the pool. I even said you didn't. You called him scummier and scummier based on his posts right after bringing up Fuzz's name, so I think it is relevant to the current topic.

This pinged me too, because of the choice of words. Prior to that Golden had never called me scummy, then suddenly I post one thing he doesn't like and I'm "scummier and scummier every time I post"?

Too dramatic for my tastes.

Sloonei wrote:And trying to spin this AGAINST the Fuzz lynchers, if you're town, is just rampant paranoia and a refusal to beliebe that sometimes things can go well in this game. Day 2 was a major victory for town, whichever Family you belong to. Let's not squander it.

There is no method good enough that mafia can't subvert and turn against town.

No situation favorable enough that can't be used by mafia to give towncred to the wrong person.

No player too innocent to be bad.

No lynch result too obvious to be wrong.

No read too good to be wrong.

No act of bussing too suicidal to be impossible.

There are no absolutes in mafia. Ever.

Golden wrote: Thats because its black and white DDL. When they flip there will be no ambiguity about their role cards, and every one of those five will be town. Religion is not.

Bullshit.

The day I accept there is a 100% guaranteed way of finding if someone is good or bad will be the day I stop playing mafia.

There is no black and white in this game until the player flips. This is a basic notion you should know by this point.

Golden wrote:What possible stupid logical reason is there for me to bring up a CFD to suddenly bus my own teammate?

There isn't, because that's not what happened.

You didn't bring up the CFD. Turnip did. You didn't bring up Fuzz being suspicious. Silverwolf did. You didn't point out how Fuzz saying he wouldn't touch Ika when he did was fishy. SVS did.

All you did was stay with the flow and play along. You watch how the game is moving and react to it as things happen.

I'm not stating the CFD was some master plan by engineered by the cops to produce towncred. What I'm stating is that it is perfectly possible for individual cops to see what's going on and react to it by bussing their teammate. That doesn't require prior planning or even BTSC. It just requires fast thinking. And you are perfectly capable of that. As soon as TH mentioned CFD, you saw what was coming (even better than me, who had never seen a CFD in action before) and braced yourself for it. You presented multiple lynch options to look like you were helping, including a teammate for some light bussing (because providing scum lists with one or two teammates is something we all do). You said you were okay with voting Fuzz after others did. And as soon as someone voted for him, you followed.

The way you bus is not voluntary. You never start the lynch against your teammates. You just keep watching the scenario, waiting for it to happen, and when the flow starts moving against a teammate, you jump in. You are a fast thinker, able to change your plans on the fly.

And if I'm wrong about you and this is just a huge tinfoil (because I haven't discarded that possibility), then it's perfectly possible someone else in the wagon is a cop. It just requires fast thinking, and boldness. Heck, there have been instances where I harshly bussed a teammate (or even myself) with less than 5 minutes to think about it. And I was looking up to you for inspiration while doing it.

In my view, the only people who left this lynch with a lot of towncred are Turnip, Silverwolf and SVS. Everyone else is debatable right now. And even those 3 can become debatable if we later find good evidence against them.

Also Epi, what is your opinion on the CFD that happened last day and whether its results can be used to find scum or not?

I know you've had some strong opinions about CFD in the past, so I'm curious about what you think of it in the context of this game.

Golden, what do you think about Epi?

Don't have time to answer to your posts right now but I wanna leave this question anyway.

@Wilgy:

Maybe. I was unwilling to vote for Epi last day because of his point on being less aggressive because he bleieves the forum is too aggressive lately. I agreed with that so I decided to give him a pass. But I don't know what sense to make of Epi's alignment,

Golden wrote:I do not understand how anyone who reads that whole thing can honestly take away from it that the people who set out to form that wagon, any one of them, was bad. It makes absolutely zero sense.

This shit I'm talking about.

I've seen more black and white views in internet religion arguments.

Giant post ahead. I'm gonna post a wall of quotes about what happened at EoD2. See if I can make some sense of this mess.

The CFD idea starts here. No suspects are pointed out yet.

Turnip Head wrote:I want to lead a CFD counterwagon because I don't like any of these 3, but I have no idea where to go. My vote is accomplishing nothing but I don't know where else to put it. I really hope Epi doesn't get lynched, I haven't played with him in forever and I'm liking his new approach this game.

Golden promptly agrees.

Golden wrote:I'd love to, too, but we would need to get enough people on board, and preferably including some of the current voters on the existing 3 wagons.

So does the bear:

S~V~S wrote:Talk to me. My vote is based on a ping, and I am not sure why he has other votes. When I looked in here this AM, it seemed that he had more, so if new info has come up I want to act on it, but I don't know that I can totally catch up in the time that I have.

Sloonei is open to it.

Sloonei wrote:My mind is open.

SW points out Fuzz's opportunistic vote. Ika agrees.

Silverwolf wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:Breaking the tie, voting for ika.

ika

This is a very opportunistic vote and probably scum.

ika wrote:I agree, when i flip town it should be looked into

Golden throws two possible names. Matt and Wilgy. Not Fuzz, but he says he is open to ideas.

Golden wrote:Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

Says he is also open to Serge and Fuzz. Doesn't vote them or the other two yet.

Golden wrote:Serge and Fuzz votes both opportunistic, I'd be open to either of them too.

Sloonei supports a CFD on Matt.

Sloonei wrote:Matt is probably my dark horse lynch option, if we're all gonna start throwing names into the Chinese Fire Drill pool.

Linki: I see we have started doing that! And Matt has other takers.

Jar delivery girl is on board with the whole CFD idea.

indiglo wrote:Ditto.

Sloonei disagrees with ika. Not clear whether he is against lynching Fuzz or just doesn't like ika's particular point. Looks like the later.

Sloonei wrote:

ika wrote:I agree, when i flip town it should be looked into

I do not agree. At this point it only makes sense to vote for one of the three of you, so any vote can be said to be "opportunistic".

Next, I voice against the CFD. Argument ensues. Not gonna post it here because this isn't the point of this post.

The bear makes a big point against Fuzz. Brings up the matter of Fuzz refusing to touch Ika. SW disagrees on the CFD. She had priorly agreed on lynching Fuzz, but not the CFD.

Silverwolf wrote:

Golden wrote:Let me throw out two names for this counterwagon and see if Sloon, SVS, TH, indi, silver and ika could all be behind either.

Matt
Wilgy

I'm open to other names.

I don't like this. I never like the idea of a last minute flash wagon at the end of the day.

Your latest posts are not really sitting well with me.

Radical Fuzz, Golden need to be looked into more tomorrow IMO.

Golden congratulates the bear. No vote yet.

Golden wrote:Good find, SVS.

Sloonei agrees with the Fuzz lynch. That gives us 4 people wanting to lynch Fuzz: him, ika, SW and SVS.
Golden states he is willing to vote for Fuzz.

No vote yet.

Golden wrote:I'm willing to do a Fuzz vote.

Ika states he also wants to vote for Fuzz. Again, no vote yet.

ika wrote:

Golden wrote:I'm willing to do a Fuzz vote.

i can do that

Sloonei opens the flood gates. The poll doesn't show that because Sloonei would later change the vote, but he is the first to vote.

Sloonei wrote:RadicalFuzz is the crooked kind of player.

TH prefers to vote for Scotty though.

Turnip Head wrote:I voted for Scotty on the basis of the points I made in this post. It's not as strong of a point now that the Gleam wagon slowed down and two others popped up, but I still get a word feeling from how he used his vote today.

Golden votes second.

Golden wrote:RadicalFuzz

SW wants to join, but wants more support.

Silverwolf wrote:I'm willing to lynch Radical Fuzz right now if there's enough support for it.

Enrique is confused about lynching Fuzz. So is TH.

Enrique wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I am starting to feel more inclined to vote for Epi, and if I reach a point where I'm confident enough to do that, I will do it.

Is that gonna happen on its own? Are you looking for encouragement?

also why is everyone voting fuzz now wtf i wasnt serious

Turnip Head wrote:Why Fuzz? I've got linki up the wazoo

Ika votes.

ika wrote:Changed my vote

pedit: well we are @riki

Enrique agrees with my point against the CFD. The Fuzz lynch is fully moving at the time.

Enrique wrote:

Spoiler: show

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.

Every post you make is making you look more scummy, imo. Why shouldn't we try to push one now, when so many people think all of the current wagons don't have a lot of merit?

If people don't like any of the 3 wagons then sure, go ahead.

But inviting people to look for a fourth one reeks of an attempt to deflect this lynch into something else.

I don't like the timing of this at all. Because all the scum who are seeing their possible teammates get lynched will take the chance to jump out.

Good post.

Enrique votes for one of the movers of the Fuzz wagon:

Enrique wrote:Golden I really don't like this.

SW votes. Then the bear. Then me.

Silverwolf wrote:Radical Fuzz

If this doesn't happen today, I'm voting it tomorrow.

S~V~S wrote:I went to Fuzz

Tied it backup.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Fine.

RadicalFuzz

I hate this plan but if we are not lynching gleam, the Fuzz is the next in line.

I'm not lynching ika today.

Okay I'm gonna stop here with the votes. The rest is history and can be seen in the poll.

The point is this post was to provide a way for people to look at the flow. Who started the CFD, who pushed, how the idea for lynching Fuzz was developed, who came up with it and who pushed it too. This is useful for the point I want to make next.

Also Sig's post against the lynch hadn't come yet, but would eventually come. Will quote it here since he seems to be a big suspect:

sig wrote:Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

Ok here is the point. I think Golden is bad.

The reason: the way he moved in this lynch is VERY similar to how he handles bussing in other games where he is bad.

Let me explain how the fiende operates: he is never the one to start the wagon where his teammates are lynched. He waits for someone to bring it up and stays on the fence, looking contributive. But as soon as he smells the wagon, he makes sure he is one of the first to jump on it, in order to keep appearances. He won't jump unless he sees the clear flow of the thread going against the teammate though. But when they do, he will act fast and secute the towncred that lynch will provide. Golden is capable of lynching his entire team, then winning the game alone on a mountain of towncred he carefully obtained along the game. He did it in Economics: got two of his three teammates lynched and made sure to look responsible for it, even when he was never the one to bring the lynch up. He was the first to vote on both lynches, even though he wasn't the one starting the suspicion (TH, the cop, was).

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 85#p148585

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 51#p147451

So it matches with this game. he didn't bring up the CFD. He agreed with it after TH did. He didn't bring up the Fuzz lynch, he actually brought up 3 counter-examples before and attempted to push wagons on them. He only said he was going to vote for Fuzz after four other players did.

And now, he is acting like if everyone on that lynch is automatically town, and the ones who opposed the CFD the most are automatically mafia. A dangerous and absolute view, which doesn't fit an intelligent and questioning person like him. it is perfectly possible for that lynch to contain 1 or even more cops. They could be sacrificing their teammate. Heck, that wasn't even clear it would happen, since the day ended with more votes on ika than on Fuzz. It's likely this was a coordinated job, with some players voting for ika to counter the wagon and some voting for Fuzz in order to split the team. They took the risk, and it didn't pay off since they lost a teammate, but now they are trying to reap the benefits of towncred and/or creating new suspects.

I know this whole thing is a huge tinfoil, but it feels right to me. I'm willing to act on it next day.

That doesn't mean I don't have other suspects though. The ika wagon is probably full of them. I don't like the way Soneji has been playing, for example, and I see the points on Enrique and/or Sig. But I'm gonna pursue this theory first.

I don't like Golden's absolute views. Only siths deal in absolutes. This doesn't sound like a civ wanting to figure out the game.

I'll finish catching up to see if there is anything else worth replying to then disappear again until Day 3. Bye.

Catching up.

I'm gonna lower my activity level from now, and until the end of the game. RL is calling. The only reason I'm not getting replaced is that the hosts don't have people available to replace, and I don't wanna screw up this game.

CFD = Computational Fluid Dynamics imo.

Will reply to everything tomorrow. Bye.

Sloonei wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:So now you are gonna witch hunt everyone who didn't agree with the CFD? That's what we're doing?

Because I still think it's a sloppy idea. Would've preferred if we've had a few more hours to do it.

And for the record, I'm against reading any of the people in the Fuzz lynch as civ automatically. Because if gleam or ika is also scum, this could be a great bussing job. The guy who started this whole thing is famous for his bussing skills in this forum, don't forget about that.

I'm not reading anything today though. Night.

We just lynched a bad guy and you're saying it's a bad idea to try to gauge reactions to and from it?

Also, for the record, I was the first one to vote for Fuzz. I don't think I have any history of bussing teammates anywhere.

no. i'm saying it's a bad idea to create a TOWN FOREVER group for the people who accepted the plan and a THOSE PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY HITLER group for the people who opposed to it.

This is the kind of shit that wins games for the cops in the long run.

We should totally analyse everyone's interactions with Fuzz and the lynch, but keep open minded about their alignments.

S~V~S wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:So now you are gonna witch hunt everyone who didn't agree with the CFD? That's what we're doing?

Because I still think it's a sloppy idea. Would've preferred if we've had a few more hours to do it.

And for the record, I'm against reading any of the people in the Fuzz lynch as civ automatically. Because if gleam or ika is also scum, this could be a great bussing job. The guy who started this whole thing is famous for his bussing skills in this forum, don't forget about that.

I'm not reading anything today though. Night.

Do you mean me? I am a she.

No. Golden. He was the one who started the CFD think iirc.

(if I'm wrong then screw that, this shit was too fast for me to form any rational thoughts).

So now you are gonna witch hunt everyone who didn't agree with the CFD? That's what we're doing?

Because I still think it's a sloppy idea. Would've preferred if we've had a few more hours to do it.

And for the record, I'm against reading any of the people in the Fuzz lynch as civ automatically. Because if gleam or ika is also scum, this could be a great bussing job. The guy who started this whole thing is famous for his bussing skills in this forum, don't forget about that.

I'm not reading anything today though. Night.

Sloonei wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I'm not even catching up with this thread until this crazy speed stops lol.

Good job civs. Holy fuck.

Why are you addressing the civs in the third person?

I like to say "good job town" (or civs in this case) when a lynch is succesful.

Do I need to show links?

I'm not even catching up with this thread until this crazy speed stops lol.

Good job civs. Holy fuck.

sig wrote:Someoen explain the Fuzz thing to me please if you bring a good point maybe I'd vote that way though Im not seeing anything

Rarely if ever do experienced players slip like that. Everytime I've "slipped" it turned out mafia was behind my lynch the same is happening here for Fuzz.

Ok, putting this "slip" aside, there's the fact he has barely given any reads for the whole game, and has acted pretty noncommital. The only time he ever gave reads was when I voted for him early today.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Quin wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:Because at the moment that I voted Gleam-ika was 5-5. As for why it wasn't Gleam, you're not gonna like my answer, but I honestly didn't care which one got lynched.

Luffy I said I wouldn't touch the ika/Silverwolf situation. I said nothing of lynches except that I wanted to avoid ties.

This is the interpretation I got from his post about avoiding them. I think you are really reaching if you're twisting it in the way that you are, Luffy.

Okay I'm just repeating what someone else said (not gonna quote it now), Fuzz was never a strong read, just a slight one, but between him and the guy I absolutely don't want to lynch, I take him.

Happy?

I barely understand what's going on right now. Honestly. This EoD is moving too fast for my tastes.

Quin wrote:

RadicalFuzz wrote:Because at the moment that I voted Gleam-ika was 5-5. As for why it wasn't Gleam, you're not gonna like my answer, but I honestly didn't care which one got lynched.

Luffy I said I wouldn't touch the ika/Silverwolf situation. I said nothing of lynches except that I wanted to avoid ties.

This is the interpretation I got from his post about avoiding them. I think you are really reaching if you're twisting it in the way that you are, Luffy.

Okay I'm just repeating what someone else said (not gonna quote it now), Fuzz was never a strong read, just a slight one, but between him and the guy I absolutely don't want to lynch, I take him.

Happy?

Sloonei wrote:

sig wrote:Why would mafia Fuzz pop in at endgame and vote Ike unless he was saving Gleam/Epi if this was the case why ditch both those wagons? This is the scummiest CFD since the one I lead to stop me from getting lynched when I was almost confirmed mafia

@Epi he didn't

because he needed to vote, and maybe all three of them are townies and he just wanted to send any one of them to jail.

also i put my vote on Matt. How do we all feel about that?

No.

Godanmit guys, this isn't turbo mafia.

agleaminranks wrote:WHOA whoa whoa. I go to take a shower and I come back and everyone that had voted for me all of sudden switched bandwagons entirely??

I don't understand this at all. I take it that it was in response to some questionable action that Fuzz took to tie a vote? In wondering whether or not it's to save a teammate?

I'm reading over the posts now and yeah, it does seem like Fuzz is flipping a bit on some opinions. I truthfully haven't examined him at all prior to this point. I will try and examine some posts before the day is over but I don't know if I'll get to it in time.

But I recall a few instances of a couple people wanting to use their votes to break some ties, even being said so in this forum. What am I missing that was special about Fuzz's vote?

LLLLLINKIIIII

He said he wouldn't touch the ika lynch.

I still support a gleam lynch if you guys wanna go back to that though.

Sloonei wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Point is: I'm more worried about the people currently on the wagons wanting a way out, than the ones outside of them who are not satisfied wanting to create a new one.

are any of them suggesting a Chinese Fire Drill? I'd certainly love to hear their thoughts on the issue.

You're late. Look at the poll.

Yeah sorry Fuzz. My suspicion on you is not strong, but I'm not wasting my vote. You are still the guy who only posted reads when people asked you to.

Fine.

RadicalFuzz

I hate this plan but if we are not lynching gleam, the Fuzz is the next in line.

I'm not lynching ika today.

Quin wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:Oh, so do we have another hour until day ends? I thought it ended now.

Pick a name that's not Epignosis, ika, or Gleam and tell us why we should all vote for that person.

Luffy. I did not agree with the original suspicion of him in the 'maf will struggle to win this game' argument, but now hearing him explicitly try to control a lynch by essentially threatening us with scumreads has changed my mind. There was a point made about him trying to control all discussion in the thread, and I'm not opposed to that way of thinking either.

I'm not threatening anyone. Don't put words in my mouth.

Point is: I'm more worried about the people currently on the wagons wanting a way out, than the ones outside of them who are not satisfied wanting to create a new one.

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.

Every post you make is making you look more scummy, imo. Why shouldn't we try to push one now, when so many people think all of the current wagons don't have a lot of merit?

If people don't like any of the 3 wagons then sure, go ahead.

But inviting people to look for a fourth one reeks of an attempt to deflect this lynch into something else.

I don't like the timing of this at all. Because all the scum who are seeing their possible teammates get lynched will take the chance to jump out.

I don't like the idea of starting another wagon, when we already have 3, with less than an hour for the phase to end.

This is the PERFECT opportunity for scum to save each other if they need to.

If you don't like the current wagons then tough luck. Try to push another one earlier next day.

ika wrote:the seconde one was at luffy.

trust me, there doesn go a moment where we have at least some parnaoia about each other. if we live for too long it does kinda make it odd. but this is also common for sucms to discredit our town reading.

like i have had a game where i was a cop and i was light town reading her but didnt trust her and was going to check her n1, she know nothing about it. so we may start wrong but in the end we always get it right

I believe in you, but we have to look at our side. We know nothing about you two. We are trying to get reads on you - separate reads - taking into account playstyle, possible meta, the way you deal with each other, and the fact one of you or both of you could be mafia. And we are trying to do that while not being unwelcoming or rude. It's hard. We are walking on a thin line here, trying to read you two while not giving you guys a reason to leave our site because we don't want that to happen.

And every time one of you defends each other, we have to put that under scrutiny and try to understand whether that's sincere, or bussing, or appeal to emotion, because those are all possible mafia strategies.

And people are not used to that. There are other couples in this site and they tend to distance from each other more in games. Maybe even to avoid this scenario that's happening with you two. The way you guys play is not wrong, but we need some time to get used to it, just like you two need some to get used to us.

ika wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
This kind of relates to the point I made early about how the two acting like they are a single organism instead of two separate players rubs people the wrong way. Nobody knows how to deal with that, myself included.

Well if that's what irks everyone it can easily be explained. we share a thing called empathy. where we can feel each others emotions and how we feel towards one another

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

its why sometimes we look like we act as one

The problem is that it doesn't guarantee you two will roll the same alignment.

It's awesome for you to be like that in real life, but here, there is a high probability one of you is manipulating the other one. And the rest of us.