The Syndicate

This Caps-MP theory could be true, and I do think some posts Caps made today are suspicious, but the whole thing has so much WIFOM I don't want to touch it with a 10-feet pole.

Glorfindel wrote:
Spoiler: show
No one else seems all that interested so - looking at MP's ISO:

Day 0:
0.1 He votes for TheCapsFan and 3J for Prefect after TheCapsFan votes for him.
0.2 He makes (for the first time a reference to the players who are yet to check in)
0.3 Makes a light-hearted throw away line at Dom's campaign for Prefect
0.4 Responds to a remark by 3J about his voting for himself for Prefect
0.5 Remarks that my selection process for voting Scotty and 3J for prefect is not logical and admits that neither is anyone else's approach and also asks DDL for opinions of suspicious Day 0 activity.

0.6 Questions 3J's response to 0.4
0.7 Thinly veiled accusation to 3J of lack of transparency on Day 0 reads and then appears to accept 3J's explanation
0.8 Queries Quin on why he is not interested in his (MP's) interactions with 3J after he (Quin) expressed curiosity at the dialogue between TH and 3J.
0.9 Quin responds to MP saying that he already "agreed with his sentiments" to which MP responds to Quin with

Day 1:
1.1 Invites general discussion around the game's duel mechanic
1.2 Despite critisizing 3J for making early GTH reads in 0.7, MP throws out his own list of 'tentative' Town reads (Boomslang, DDL, 3J, Quin and Turnip Head).
1.3 MP makes his second reference to players that had not checked in - naming (Buubles, DisgruntledPorcupine, LoRab, Rabbit, Soneji and S-V-S)
1.4 Quin objects to MP saying that he hadn't sufficient posts to have earnt a Town read.
1.5 Gets aggro at Mac for criticising his Town reads and then attempts a justification on them in response to 3J's request.
1.5.1 Praises Boomslang for his Day 1 activity and engagement (consisting of opinions around strategy for selecting players to duel).
1.5.2 Gives credit to DDL for a couple of posts (of which the links don't work for me).
1.5.3 Says that he tried to get a feel for 3J and found his response 'genuine' and that hadn't seen anything 'questionable' or 'alarming' in terms of 3J's contributions.
1.5.4 Briefly says that he likes Quin's questioning of TH (refer 0.8) and
1.5.5 Nominates three of TH's posts that demonstrate 'critical thinking'.

1.6 In a response to Bass claims to have suspected 3J but then exhonerated him based on his responses.
1.7 Gets upset at MacDougall for his accusations based on his lack of activity.
1.8 The reconciliation.

Day 2:
2.1 In response to a post by DDL where he suggests that MP is angrier than normal and considers whether it was alignment indicative, 3J summarises MP RL dilemmas and states that he's "fine with MP right now."
2.2 Apologises for his behaviour
2.3 Questions Nerolunar as to whether he followed up his suspicions on MP over his GTH reads with a vote (he didn't).
2.4 3J claims MP as his top Town read based on his interpretation of MP's RL circumstances. Quin agrees and accuses MP of buddying to which MP responds with a request for an explanation.
2.5 MacDougall accuses MP of buddying up to his GTH reads and suggests (I think) that MP's behaviour was manipulative. MP responds with a reasonably calm rebuttal claiming to doubt Mac's sincerity.

2.6 In response to a post by Sig expressing interest in his accusation at Mac, MP replies with a battery of questions as to what Sig means.
2.7 Quin states he'll vote for MP (He actually voted MM and Dom) to which MP indicates confirms his 'Town cred' slightly more.
2.8 Queries why Dom, MM and Russ are attracting votes.
2.9 Claims not to understand Sorsha's suggested approach of voting for Prefects
2.10 Makes some comments to 3J about the case against Russ.

2.11 'Digs' 3J's case on Russ and dismisses the case on MM based on his WIFOM with Wilgy.
2.12 Notices that Dom is "throwing around a lot of suspicion (DF, 3J, Bass) ... But doing so in a fairly assertive manner... On the basis of little, dubious or non existent content" but claims that behaviour is not in itself inherently suspicious for Dom.
2.13 Not five minutes later, MP blows up at timmer for making random votes on Russ and Dom and wants a CFD where he wants to vote for timmer (and continues to pursue timmer until he is removed at EoD 3).
2.14 MP challenges DF on his suspicions of Dom and proceeds with a fairly strenuous defence of Dom.
2.15 Starts an active campaign against Nutella

2.16 At the end of the Day he makes a post nominating Dom and Boomslang as his 'TOP civilian reads'

My observations:
People have made some suggestions so far this Day phase to the effect that 3J may have been one of MP's partners in crime. I personally don't support that view. I believe (again, perhaps naively) that MPs behaviour was genuine and came from a place of frustration. I think from reading the tone of their interactions, 3J was cutting MP some slack as a consequence of his circumstances and in 3J's case at least, he fell for the opportunity that MP took to buddy up to him.

I think MP may have included at least one of his team mates on that list however and I didn't get the same vibe of sincerity from all of them as I did with 3J.

If you look at MP's list of absent players (refer: 1.3 above) do you notice anything unusual? It appears to me (so far) to be the list of the Yellow Turban's NKs in reverse order. Where else have you seen those two names together?

I'm concerned by MP's relationship with Dom this game. I find it odd that MP started off casting doubt on him (refer 2.12 above) and so swiftly turns apparently making him a catalyst for his campaign against timmer and then ended defending Dom so adamantly.

This is awesome! Good job.

I just skimmed though because I don't have much free time. But if someone else can use this list to sport something incriminating, that'd be cool.

I agree with your point about MP's frustration bing genuine. He has said that in other games before, and he said this time that this is not something he would take. There is no point in having such a meta if you are going to betray it the first game you are scum. MP's furstration was the real deal.

Glorfindel wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:This MP thing was the weirdest lynch I've ever seen in this site.

Am I the only one who thinks this may have benefitted the YTs in some way? With abilities and such? Otherwise I can't see why MP would betray his temataes like that. Unless he was really the only active member so he called it quits.
Can you please explain what you meant by that DDL? How do you think MP betrayed his team mates? I don't think he necessarily really expected to be a candidate to duel. He was Strategist class after all and given they make up such a small proportion of the populace of this game (i.e. 18% at the start of this game) that four-sided die of his meant his odds were never going to be particularly good. Also, Soneji died last night at the hands of the Yellow Turbans so there's still at least one running around

"random YT's ability: every time a teammate loses a duel, gains an extra kill that cannot fail".

That's a simple example but it's possibly more complicated.

The entire faction has "secrets". Assume anything is possible.

Quin wrote:ayyyyy I was right for a change!

b-b-but Quin, you haven't talked about MP since like Day 2!

Shut up!

---

Anyway, I support a TCF lynch. Glorfindel is nearly always on the latter half of the major bandwagons. Let's talk about that.

I wish they would stop killing all of the active players

Wtf is a TCF?

nutella wrote:Pleasantly surprised at the lynch result!! Nice.

RIP TH Weird that the YTs have killed another non-player.

Sorsha wrote:I'd like to say I find it notable that MovingPictures and TheCapsFan both voted for each other to be prefects. (and they both also voted for jjj )

I'll likely be voting for CapsFan today since I think he voted for one of his teammates in the prefect poll.
Nice catch.

Everything the YTs have done in this game is weird and my paranoia sensors are going bananas right now.

TheCapsFan wrote:In that case, Sorsha, you have nothing to worry about, because I'm civ.

Why do you keep repeating that? It doesn't make it more likely for anyone to believe you are a civ.

Glorf, will answer it later.

Also someone please analyse MP's Cfd attempt closer.

I am happy that I finally managed to read MP as bad successfully though.

This MP thing was the weirdest lynch I've ever seen in this site.

Am I the only one who thinks this may have benefitted the YTs in some way? With abilities and such? Otherwise I can't see why MP would betray his temataes like that. Unless he was really the only active member so he called it quits.

What just happened here?

Turnip Head wrote:I am by no means an expert on the subject of Glorfindel. I've thought before that I could read him and I was the driving force in mislynching him. That is my one experience playing with him.

And so I don't know how to explain it, but he feels sincere to me here.

We all have been there before. Ive once made a huge ISO post where I concluded he was a civ beyond any doubt.

Then a few days later I had a chance to kill a player abd I killed him.

Something about him makes you want him dead. It's like Sig.

Today is "throw Sloonei's shameful defeats onto his face" day

Spacedaisy wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm leaving for a camping trip soon. I'll be back on Wednesday. Peace!
Oh hey Scotty, I posted this at the beginning.

And to be fair, I probably wouldn't have contributed, even if I was around.
Ah, I missed that. Unfortunately, your input since you've been back is going exactly how you admit it would go.
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Also, my rainbow list looks something like this:

S~V~S
Turnip Head
MovingPictures07

Stay tuned for more.
Stay tuned for more...more what? Beer? Spears? Aneurysms?
What does the blue represent? Why do you suspect MP? Why anything? Why do I keep expecting you to expand upon your thoughts, knowing full well you're just gonna derp around them? Isn't that tbe definition of insanity?

You can't just post colorful words and not talk about them. Here's my rainbow list using your method:
Stalin
The Yuan Dynasty
Andy Richter
Crab People

Stay tuned for more.
Scotty, this post has me all kinds of uncomfortable. MM posted a list of three reads. He listed them in the normal way for a rainbow list. Top are most civ and bottom are most baddie, and they were normal colors. You were quite over the top in your response to it. The only thing that gives me pause is MM's flip. I realize that MM's list was bullsuit, but if you had come in saying, hey can you explain why you put SVS as your civ read or why you think MP is bad, that would be a response I could understand. But instead you act like you didn't know how to read a rainbow list. Which is just silliness, they have been around long for you to know how to read them.

On that note, I have to stop where I am. I've got to go to work shortly. I'll try to vote before I leave or from my phone at work, I don't know.

MM's rainbow list was a joke one too. He basically listed all three site admins.

Btw Daisy, what do you think about MP in this game?

I'm gonna go on a bus travel now wgich means I'll have a lot of free time but also really bad internet signal.

I think my votes are decided. Bomms and Russ.

Boomslang wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:Just another observation here...

As I understand it, part of the case that brought MM undone was his inconsistency in voting for Dr Wilgy for Prefect on Day 0 and then voted to have him duel on Day 1 - is that correct? I note that another player did a similar thing in that Boomslang voted MM for Prefect on Day 0 and then voted him for the dueling ring on Day 1.

The vote for MM's prefecture was mid-poll (i.e. 39th out of 62) so it wasn't really influential and it was MM's only vote for Prefect. I'm not sure what this says but personally, I didn't vote anyone for Prefect about whom I had doubts
Well, if you're not sure what it says, what do you think it says? Or is this one of those baddie "let's plant a seed without actually taking sides and hope it grows into a mighty lynching tree" moves?

Why is it that you always seem to appear only when people mention you?

Sorry bro, I think you must be a really nice person IRL, but I can't bring myself to like the way you play the game.

Glorfindel wrote:Just another observation here...

As I understand it, part of the case that brought MM undone was his inconsistency in voting for Dr Wilgy for Prefect on Day 0 and then voted to have him duel on Day 1 - is that correct? I note that another player did a similar thing in that Boomslang voted MM for Prefect on Day 0 and then voted him for the dueling ring on Day 1.

The vote for MM's prefecture was mid-poll (i.e. 39th out of 62) so it wasn't really influential and it was MM's only vote for Prefect. I'm not sure what this says but personally, I didn't vote anyone for Prefect about whom I had doubts

You weren't the first to notice it:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 59#p296459

Also one think I just noticed: for all the meta talk about how Mac likes to pressure people and play aggressively, I don't recall seeing him do that since day 1. It's like he just attacked people enough to make people say "yep, that's the Mac we all know" then got satisfied and slipped into the shadows.

Having secomds thoughts about MP today. The way I see he is asking for a duel either because:

1- He wants to die and come back to RL. if that is true, I can't see him as someone with BTSC. And in that case, it is in our best interests NOT to help him with that.
2- He wants to duel because he thinks he'll have some advantage.
3- He is playing some kind of reverse psychology gambit.

1 and 2 are reasons not to lynch him and I'm not willing to bet my vote on 3. I think I wanna see more from MP in this game before droping the axe on him.

Having second thoughts about Nutella and Glorf. Nutella looks forced sometimes, but she also looks okay other times and I haven't had the chance to ISO het yet so yeah.

Glorf is kind of obnoxious but I know I tend to think he is bad even when he is not so others (like Golden) saying he is a top civ read make me doubt my own judgement.

Think I'm gonna go with Boomslang (as pointed out in the ISO and also my last post on him at the start of d3) and Russ (seriously, WHY IS THIS GUY STILL ALIVE? He is basically trying to get lynched. Let's end his misery already).

Not sure what to think of Sloonei yet. I've always thought of him as a mini-Jay who always looks like a civ too but nott that much.

Wasnt paying attention. You wanna talk to me?

Sloonei wrote:i just got home from work and i am very very tired but i wanted to say that DDL's string of responses on the last page have me feeling a little better about him. not a top town read or anything, but i think he handled himself well in those posts. it's the ddl i know and love.

Except I don't think I've ever seen his scum game.

Unrelated, but Glorfindel remains my top suspect.

"Guess Who" is my only scum game in this site.

Otherwise you'll have to browse Naruto Forums.

My scum game kind of sucks tbh.

Turnip Head wrote:I'm going to assume that Elohcin has no interest in talking about her vote for me. I don't know what that means yet exactly, but it's certainly noteworthy Maybe she was forced to vote for me or something.

I think if there is one person who can't complain about others not wanting to talk, it's you.

Lorab is playing the same way as in Watchmen, where she was twn. I like it.

Btw, since you guys were wondering, that's the game she played with Sloonei. I remember because I helped lynch you both :beer

@MP

I admit I missed your defense of MM (screw ISOs) but I dont't think that changes my point much. The matter is that you pushed strongly for a CFD during the phase where the bad guy was lynched, and you did in a way that focused more on the CFD itself than the people you were outright saved (which I guess...you did mention... once, in the middle of your long series of TL;DRs that nobody actually read?) I think that could be a viable baddie strategy that you attempted. Your defense of MM wasn't noticeable, your continuous effort to change the result of day 2 was.

And I am not spreading misinformation, because I am spreading no information whatsoever. I am quoting posts from you and interpreting them however I can. If K am wrong, I will only know after your alignment flips. Until then, I can only guess the truth and hope I am right.

Finally, OMGUS is unlike you. Usually when I accuse you and you are a civ, you calmly defend yourself and try to understand where I am coming from. You act humble. You may even get distressed and desperate, but you don't throw shit back at your accuser. This time I made one post accusing you and you jumped into No U. I think I feel a certain tone of sarcasm from you, even. Maybe this is what bad MP looks like?

Last, but not least, we have this series of posts by our favorite sock friend. I only noticed it during Night 3 but it's never too late.

MovingPictures07 wrote:/rant

timmer wrote:Added some votes to the people wit votes. No time to figure things out just yet.
OK, I'm triggered, timmer. This may be the worst possible thing you can do if you're behind. Even BWT's method of self-voting, while meaningless and 100% guaranteed to get a civilian if he were to be lynched and assuming he's self-voting as a civilian (instead of 'randomizing' and potentially catching a baddie), all you're doing is creating a barrier to other players contributing meaningful alternative suspects and making it easier for other players to come in and, without discussion or adding input, do the same thing you just did, making those players effectively unreadable and the game more difficult to solve.

I understand being busy. Trust me. I'm sleeping like an average of 2-4 hours a night, if I'm lucky to get sleep, and working almost non-stop otherwise when I'm not here, eating, or cruising Facebook/politics news occasionally. But you would be better off abstaining or even voting yourself or 'randomizing' (both of which I despise as d1 tactics, by the way, let alone as d2+) than doing this.

I want a CFD and I think timmer might be a good candidate just for this attitude alone. I realize it could be a seriously behind and apathetic civilian attitude, but this is aggravating and I don't like the three major candidates.

MovingPictures07 wrote:For folks who played Transistor when zebra was acting "weird", ignoring people's requests for elaborating upon her actions, and talking like a cheerleader or something, Dom is that this game. This is a BS lynch.

Who's here? Someone get a CFD going with me. I haven't finished catching up yet, but at this point I'm thinking DFaraday and timmer, the latter due to what I posted above and DF because I think he looks the most potentially opportunistic of the people who have already voted Dom, MM, and Russ to me. That said, I'd be cool with anyone who's absent or mostly absent since it seems this will be a continuing problem. Almost anyone but the three people with the most votes, frankly.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'VE CAUGHT UP.

Now I need to go back to work. I'll be back in time to cast my votes and talk some more. I'd like to start a CFD on any of the following players (in order of most preferred to least):
1. nutella
2. timmer
3. Dunny / Jan
4. Inactives (rabbit8, Soneji)
5. Somewhat inactives (BWT, CapsFan DP, INH, leetic nijuu, Spacedaisy, S~V~S)

I'd rather hear back from Mac before considering him today, since the rest of his post history and content seems good, and I realize I may be coming at it from a biased viewpoint since my beef is only with his treatment of me specifically as much as I try to get away from that.

And those inactives / somewhat inactives are off my memory, I'm not sure if it's 100% accurate. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't remember any posts from inactives and remember at least one post from the somewhats, even if it lacked content.

Linki w/ Turnip Head: Can you elaborate on Dom / nutella / timmer and MM being connected / sig (case maybe? )? Thanks!

Did you spot MP's defense of Marmot? Me neither, because it's not there. But what is there is a constant and almost desperate-looking pushing for a CFD.

A CFD, for people who do not know, is a strategy (which I personally despise) that consists in a collective effort to turn the lynch into another player during the last few moments of the day. In theory, it will destroy any organized attempt by the mafias to control the lynch.

Anyway, MM and Russ were leading the wagon at the end of day 2, and MP tried hard to make a CFD happen. Thankfully people didn't listen to him, and the marmot was hanged. But now I think this CFD push looks incredibly suspicious. Specially since it lets MP avoid openly defending MM and Russ, and attempt to change the lynch in a more "impersonal" way.

I am itching to take MP's request and vote for him. Probably with one of Russ, Nutella, Boomslang and Glorfindel.

And now I am finally caught up. Thanks for ypur patience.

Ricochet wrote:If the general feel is to make out of Day 3 a test lynch, I could go with pitting TH and Caps.

Otherwise, I find that nominating TH strictly for WIFOM is a slight gamble (then again, about as much as pinning MM was, for the same reason) and nominating Caps for his lynch-me posts is a big gamble - seriously, Caps, do NOT express resignation if you are civilian, we are not the kind to prioritise "clean-up lynch" as a mindset and it would be detrimental to our hunt.

If sig will post by the end of the day (which he should, unless he's incapacitated), then nominating TH would be a gamble for rolling Turban or indy, because otherwise it'd make little sense for him to be Nanman if he was incapacitated - and I really see no better targets, among active players.

Off the top of my head, I'd pursue a timmer lynch right now: his vote, his DIY-like rebuttal which left me pretty meh, his possible connection via MM's own vote tactic. I don't know if I have clear second choice yet. I should still revisit players that are read baddie, like DFaraday (since Dom insists) or Boomslang (since DDL has a particular badread on him).

Next item in my list (yes I have a list): I found this post to be slightly pingy in retrospect. He evaluates all the current bandwagons, shuts them down one by one, and then ultimately lands on Timmer. The post itself doesn't come across as insincere or manipulative, but in light of Timmer's lynch I can't not suspect it.

Rico is dead though so meh. But maybe this could mean something about the people mentioned in this post (and yes this totally contradicts what I just said about TH but whatever, I'm as clueless as the rest of you)

Nerolunar wrote:
Boomslang wrote:
Nerolunar wrote:
Boomslang wrote:
Dom wrote:Boomslang, does a careless player mean an evil player that needs to be kept on the other side of the wall?
I'd say a careless player needs to be carefully vetted until we can figure out what's going on Case in point is Nerolunar. "I guess you could say I am guilty of saying the same thing, which I kind of am Ugh. I am a goddamn hypocrite." I really don't like this defense. If you're calling your own behavior out as shady, you're asking us to trust your civility on nothing but your word. I agree with the punishment of BWT's self-voting, but that's about it.
That's not what I meant. I am a hypocrite because I voted timmer because of reasons(not being able to understand the game and the different arguments being thrown around) I exhibit myself. It wasn't really a "defense" more like an elaboration of my previous vote. I don't think I am acting "shady" - more the opposite by doubting my own point of view about things. If you disagree, let me know. I think you reached a little here with your interpretation.
But you still made the vote, and you still say that you didn't make it for good reasons. If we can't trust you to make informed, useful votes, how can we trust that you're working the best interests of the town?
In retrospect, no, my vote was poorly made. I know that, but nobody makes completely rational and utilitarian choices all the time, whether it is town or not. I am in no way proud of my scumhunting abilities(again, see transistor) and I have never been. I suck, I really do. But I also try to improve, especially as a civilian because thats the alignment I am worst at.

I value transparency more than anything, and being able to question or criticise my own previous line of thoughts is what ultimately will help me improve and learn from my mistakes. I don't want to cruise along faking false confidence just for the sake of appearing linear or composed.

With that said, lynch me if you want. I trust the dice.

This post makes me feel better about Nero. He is playing the game in a way similar to how I like to play myself.

And the post in the quote makes me feel worse about Boomslang. It looks like he is imposing standards to Nero that are not necessarily alignment indicative. I'd love if every player was as rational and informed as possible, but the real world doesn't work that way and I think Booms's view comes across as too naive.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Hey DDL, do you think most of the the people who are mafia are laying low or are they being active or... Are they in that sweet middle area flying under the radar?

I'd argue it's a little of each, considering statistics. There should be mafia laying low AND mafia being active. Probably.

And that is a fancy way of saying I have no idea.

I made that exercise because at the start of d3 I just felt like my suspicions were either a rehash of what I was thinking before (Russ) or a parroting of other people (Timmer) so I decided to defy that and force myself to pursue new angles. And invite other people to do the same, because why not?

Also that red light thing hurts my eyes so I edited it out.

Posing as substance is not what I normally do. I can give zero shits about whether my posts like substantial or not, I just throw everything into the fan and see what happens.

Sloonei wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also I feel like I want to vote for TH, but cant find any rational reason for it. Something about him feels wrong though.
"Something about him feels wrong". I never ever like that justification. It means literally nothing and opens up the door for baseless accusation. Totally insubstantial claim posing as substance.

Here is the thing: my motto in those games is that I always say what I think regardless of whether I can do it while looking like a civ or not. In this case, I was having a bad feeling about TH while reading his posts, but couldn't be arsed to ISO him, so I said what I thought anyway in hopes somebody would do the hard work for me.

For that matter, TH feels slightly like a civ as of his recent posts though.

Glorfindel wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Hello Glorfindel, I wrote a post about you
Sloonei wrote:I was looking at some of the timmer voters overnight and a found a few questionable things in Glorfindel’s history. First, These two posts represent his only noteworthy contribution to the Day 1 proceedings, and all he is doing is rejecting a voting strategy proposed by others. He does not propose anything of his own and I see no commitment to anything, really. Looks like Glorfindel spent most of the day in the shadows and then stepped out late to position himself against what could be perceived as a bad lynch (Bubbles, aka me, voting for JJJ and Scotty. I assume Jay was town and have no read on Scotty at this point).

That’s one thing. I read that and was feeling a mild tingle, but then I got to his next string of posts and the tingling intensified.
There’s no nightkill Night 1, so Glorfindel immediately jumps to the conclusion that there’s an inactive scum who simply forgot to submit the kill and then proposes the strategy, which he’s normally against, of lynching quiet players because of this. On the following page people started pointing out all the numerous other ways that a nightkill could be prevented, but Glorfindel doubled down on the “inactive scum” theory, even suggesting it’s the most logical explanation. I would not say it is logical to assume that every single scum player (if any scum player is capable of submitting a factional kill, idk how Epi’s doing it this game) simply forgot that there was a responsibility to submit a kill on Night 1, rather than the list of other possible explanations (doctor, unkillable role, roleblocks, etc.). Glorfindel sort of acknowledged this here but also stuck to his guns.

What do y’all think of this? I am not at all familiar with Glorfindel’s playstyle, so any useful knowledge there would be helpful.
Indeed you did, my friend. It was addressed (rather obvious;y to every other player in this game) not to me. I expressed an opinion to explain what I thought was (in a game this size) the rather odd occurrence of there being no NK Night 1. Others expressed their views and I accept the validity of them. As I said earlier, I may very well have been naive in my assumption but from my perspective, in a game of 38 players, I should think that equally, the odds of both NKs being negated through role blocks, etc would be pretty long. Again, it's just an opinion.
It certainly is an opinion, but I can't dismiss the point entirely on the fact of your opinion. So much of this game is built around forming opinions of things, and my opinion is that this particular opinion you expressed gives the impression of something dishonest. It is not unreasonable to entertain the thought that all potential scum killers could have simply neglected their duties, but to jump to that conclusion as strongly and as swiftly as you did seems like quite a leap. It seems like you were trying to work a specific angle or spread an agenda, or avoid something else.
Please elaborate my friend on precisely what "specific angle" I was working or what agenda I was trying to spread or what it was I was intending to avoid by making the comment that I did. For what it's worth, given the number of absent and semi absent players in this game, I don't know that it is necessarily that long a bow to draw. In any case, if you consider that sufficient grounds to suspect me, it looks like the Mafia teams will have an easy ride of it this game.

I dont like the tone of the last sentence. Making threats to civilians as a whole is usually a bad sign in my book.

Sloonei wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:People are focusing too much on the nanman and forgetting web have a second mafia to deal with. And a cult. And a serial killer.
DDL's last post. I don't mind the nudge for people to stay focused. I'm not sure I saw any strong levels of concentration on one baddie team to another, but like I've said a few times, that's hardly something that has been on my mind at all so I could simply be oblivious.

I do not like the silence since this post. At this point it's probably Life things, but some sort of comment on something would be nice. I trust that he'll be back with plenty to say soon.

I've seen Rico calling me out on that too and it's annoying. I have a job, and due to the magic of timezones, I get out from it right before the phase is over. During work, I can grab my phone sometimes and make some quick thoughts, but catching up or making big, complex posts is not possible. My boss sits right by my side and my CEO is about 4 meters away (it's a small office).

Because I know catching up after work will be humanly impossible, I make a point to make my votes right before going to sleep in the night before the phase end.

I didn't have a job last time I played a game in this site so don't bother comparing me to that. The standard is this now and it's not changing anytime soon.

Please don't question my posting times again. I am now going to ignore anyone who does that.

Sloonei wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Honestly the fact JJJ is such an active civ is one reason for me to put him on my "do not trust" list, not the opposite.

Specially sice I've seen him admit he tries hard to make his baddie meta as civ-looking as possible.
I'm not sure I really understand your point. I think most people are voting JJJ because: #1) He is a thorough player and #2) He is an active player and we know he won't flake on us a few days in.

And, don't we ALL try to make our baddie meta as "civ-looking" as possible? I've never known anyone to get a baddie role and try to look bad...well, except maybe MovingPictures that one time
Not exactly. We want our bad metas to look like our civ metas, but a lot of us have civ metas not as thorough or pro-active as they can be, so the baddie counterpart to those metas are easier to make. We don't look that good all the time, so when we actually are bad, people don't detect it that easily.

But Jay? Like you said, he is the perfect civ. He is the town leader, the pro-active guy, the king of TL;DRs. And he tries to make his baddie meta look exactly like that (Ive never seen it myself, but he has described it that way). And that makes him a more dangerous baddie than most. Its harder to pull that metaboff successfully, but if he does it, we have a problem.

So I tend to be paranoid and avoid easily trustingnplayers like him. A good parallel to that is Marco from my forum, who plays a similar way.
This post makes me uneasy. His paranoia about Jay is bordering on malicious, almost. It gives the impression that he's trying to sow paranoia more than he's trying to provoke level-headedness.

Hey DDL, what was your read on Jay during his time in the game?

Started neutral, went to slightly civ later on as he helped lynch MM and such, but I tried hard not to see him as a top civ because people like him (extremely hard to read players) should never be seen as a top civ. It is a rule that I have been following for some time that tends to produce good results.

@Quin

I said role instead of MP himself because at that point he was about yo get replaced.

Oh nvm he already made the iso.

@Sloonei

Bad. But not one of my top ones.

If you give me more time I'll be able to finish catching up and post everything that is in my mind.

Quin wrote:My Luffy ISO is coming along but with the site the way it is i don't think I have the patience to go back and forth quoting posts. I might just refer to things as post 1,2 etc and people can just follow along in another tab.

Just make a general thoughts post. It's not like I made a full iso for you either.

MacDougall wrote:
nutella wrote:Damn. Sorry Timmer and RIP Rico.

I am inclined to go after Sorsha and TH today especially considering Eloh's implication. Russ is still up there for me as well.
This feels a bit fake to me.

Nutella has been feeling fake since day 1, tbh.

I liked her defense when called out on that, but the fakeness has remained.

Sloonei wrote:I was looking at some of the timmer voters overnight and a found a few questionable things in Glorfindel’s history. First, These two posts represent his only noteworthy contribution to the Day 1 proceedings, and all he is doing is rejecting a voting strategy proposed by others. He does not propose anything of his own and I see no commitment to anything, really. Looks like Glorfindel spent most of the day in the shadows and then stepped out late to position himself against what could be perceived as a bad lynch (Bubbles, aka me, voting for JJJ and Scotty. I assume Jay was town and have no read on Scotty at this point).

That’s one thing. I read that and was feeling a mild tingle, but then I got to his next string of posts and the tingling intensified.
There’s no nightkill Night 1, so Glorfindel immediately jumps to the conclusion that there’s an inactive scum who simply forgot to submit the kill and then proposes the strategy, which he’s normally against, of lynching quiet players because of this. On the following page people started pointing out all the numerous other ways that a nightkill could be prevented, but Glorfindel doubled down on the “inactive scum” theory, even suggesting it’s the most logical explanation. I would not say it is logical to assume that every single scum player (if any scum player is capable of submitting a factional kill, idk how Epi’s doing it this game) simply forgot that there was a responsibility to submit a kill on Night 1, rather than the list of other possible explanations (doctor, unkillable role, roleblocks, etc.). Glorfindel sort of acknowledged this here but also stuck to his guns.

What do y’all think of this? I am not at all familiar with Glorfindel’s playstyle, so any useful knowledge there would be helpful.

Glorfindel is illogical as fuck and I've caught myself lynching him for that when he was just being a clueless townie.

Your post makes sense but I'm not sure if it's possible to read Glorf by evaluating his posts as nonsensical. He is nonsensical by default.

I like Lorab's point about him better though. It is more logical and not something Glorf could escape from. I think.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Also, I thought saying I wanted to duel would get more heat then it did but it's like it went unnoticed.

Why did you want to get heat?

Catching up. I have a list of day 2/3 I have to reply to so bear with me.

People are focusing too much on the nanman and forgetting web have a second mafia to deal with. And a cult. And a serial killer.

For all the talk about the post volume being too high thisbgame seems to have way less posts than a game this size normally does. I've seem 20 player, 24 hour games with more posts.

I wonder what those people were expecting when they signed up...

Granted, the average post here has a lot more text than the average post at my home site, but still...

Quin wrote: What do you mean that things make sense from a baddie perspective? I'm not prying for anything in particular, I guess I just don't understand English anymore.

The post itself has some examples. Bascally eery time I commeneted on how you could be trying to hard to look like a civ.

Could be paranoia but posting about it doesn't hurt so yeah.

I'll be busy for the rest of the phase so I'm voting now. Voting for Boomslang and Nerolunar. I've suspected other people before, but I wanna try different things. Let's see those folks reacting to pressure.

Nerolunar

Notice of inactivity. Okay. Says he'll jump on a "reasonable bandwagon". Okay. Explains what a "reasonable bandwagon" is: a wagon well explained. supported by someone he feels good about. Not sure how it makes sense to have town reads this early but not bad reads of your own, but okay. Forgets to vote.

Post about Glorfindel being too nice that is kind of silly because Glorfindel is always nicer than a puppy. But okay, I won't pretend I can read Glorfindel well either. Explains why he missed day 1, then votes for 2 guys who are voting random. As he says, "random votes are no-no".

This guy is a baddie read of mine. He seems to be always around, his post count is not way too low, and he will explain all of his moves, but not make anything more than that. Looks like calculated scumplay to me. Not as bad as Boomslang I suppose, but still fishy. His inability to stay active sounds sincere, but it feels like he's not trying as much as he is able to.

Quin

Finally, the guy with 55 posts nobody seems to care about. Last game I played with him people talked about him so much I got sick of it, so maybe everyone else is sick too? But we gotta face Quin too eventually.

Starts with little activity, due to tooth surgery. Okay. Comments a little on the Jay paranoia thing, then says he can't be active because of his teeth but writes a paragraph longer than anything those other 4 players have done. Someone give this guy a medal.

Is trying to read people as early as Day 0. Either very proactive or trying too hard to look civ. Suspects MP in the middle of MP's meltdown. A somewhat bold move. I like it. Votes Bubbles for inactivity at the end of D1, together with MP.

Bubbles starts posting and Quin suspects her. Well that is consistent, but looks like a coincidence too. Maybe trying too hard to look consistent? But I digress. Agress with the Marmot lynch almost immediately and leaps on the wagon. Unlikely to be part of the warrior mafia. Is also active in the Dommald Debate, and votes for him. Also wants to vote or Nutella. Stays very active for the rest of D2. Was it necessary to vote early, then?

Day 3. Still mildly suspicious of Nuttela. His view on her seems to accompany mine, somewhat. Sus' of Capsfan too, sort of.

Midly civ read in my book, since he is very proactive and unlikely to be a Nanman (I think, I haven't stopped to look hard at that). A lof of things make sense from a baddie perspective, but that's not enough for a baddie read imo.

Bas is another one I could have included in the list. I feel like people only ever mention him when talking about Dom's posts about him.

@Nutella

Go ahead and talk about those others too if I want. I estabilished the criteria in order not to make the list too intimidating, but if you, say, find something useful in Daisy's 4 posts, feel free to point it out.

Not gonna quote stuff unless strictly necessary because the site is too slow.

Boomslang

A lot of talk about game mechanics on Day 0/1. Neutral read. Then votes MM/TH because they "wanted to duel". Somewhat suspicious, since you could have used all the time you discussed duel mechanics to pick a better case. But whatever it's D1.

Shows up on Day 2 again and actually starts playing in more serious way. Goes for both Jan and Sorsha, with some convincing arguments. Votes for Jan/MM "following up on his previous vote on MM". Which one, the one you picked "because he wanted to duel?" What about Sorsha?

This reeks of WIFOM. This guy is in my scum list.

Bullseye

Starts similar to Bullseye. Fluff, game mechanics, meaningless D1 vote. Complains about not having time to play and votes himself on Day 2. Meh.

Dragon D. Luffy

This guy is a civ imo.

Elohcin

Argued with me about Jay paranoia. Then some game mechanics banter and complaining about being left behind. That keeps going until Day 2. At the end of the day, she votes for Russ and MM, exactly the same vote as I made. Rico might tell us how that influenced the poll (I'm too lazy to check). Pretty null play so far, not much to suspect or trust.

More people next post.

The last time I did this I listed 4 players and 3 of them corresponded to the entire scum team. This method works. Let's do it.

I'm gonna look at their posts and see what I think.

Alright I don't have anything to add myself so I'm gonna make a proposition to you all.

Talk about the following people:

Boomslang
Bullzeye
Dragon D. Luffy
Elohcin
Nerolunar
Quin

All those are players with 5 or more posts, which posted on day 2 or later, and yet nobody seems to be talking about them.

Yes I included myself. I fit the above criteria so it's only fair. And it feels awkward when nobody wants me dead, I don't like it. Talk about me more please.

Don't have an opinion on them? Well it's a great time to ISO them. Go.

nutella wrote:Ah I forgot about sig. Those posts do look pretty bad for him and he never really answered when I asked why he didn't want to lynch MM. He's definitely on my nanman shortlist.

I don't wanna drink the Lynch Sig koolaid again. It's too addicting and leads you nowhere most of the time.

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