The Syndicate

Like I'm pretty sure the table is just about whether we save nanook or not. But if we don't then we are free to protect whoever we see fit.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:51 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:39 pm I guess there is a lesson to be learned about finding an "optimal" mathematical solution that disregards the social aspect of the game and ignores that the game is designed with much higher winning odds for the mafia faction, which town can only overcome through social cohesion.
There should also have a mechanism solution that allows town to attempt to save other players besides the Red Panda. Like, the Marmot and NotAnAxehole kills were pretty predictable and someone could've saved them. I guess I might leave this discussion for postgame because I'm not sure how beneficial it is to talk about it right now.

Uh... but we can protect whoever we want?

I guess there is a lesson to be learned about finding an "optimal" mathematical solution that disregards the social aspect of the game and ignores that the game is designed with much higher winning odds for the mafia faction, which town can only overcome through social cohesion.

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:28 pm This game feels like freelo for wolves because of the level of apathy. All I can do is try to figure out who is wolf taking advantage of it and who is town underplaying.

The setup, plus the way nanook decided to play, causes this state. It's very hard to see the connection between what we say and the game's outcome, since we have no idea what the red panda is thinking of it, and easy to fall into a "I can afford not to post and that won't change anything" mentality. And even if we want to help, the lack of feedback or consequences (actual votes) makes hard for the discussion to gain traction.

Like I've already said what I thought of my main suspects, why should I reinforce anything or try to bring up new points? If I knew nanook was going to shoot Sig (and if I wasnt having some issues myself tbh) I might have fought much harder against it. His next shot may be someone nobody expects and we can't focus the discussion on that because he's not telling.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:57 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 5:57 am
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:39 pm First of Creature, I didn't do anything discreetly, I flat out explained the only reason I had him in my PoE was because I had no reason to eliminate him.

I don't know you, but I can see how you are acting in this game and it is so beyond shady.

I'm positive of only Dizzy, and I feel really confident in Guillo town, based on how his posts read to me. Urist I feel fairly confident in too, but not fully able to dismiss.

Everyone else is in my PoE.

Wilgy, do me a favor and give me a little bit more to chew on from you. I fully suspect that when they took out those two posters, the wolves are stepping in to fill the void. When the night ended I sat back to watch and see who did that. Unsurprisingly Creature and DDL. Two people are already felt suspicious of.

I would like to hear some thoughts from you so I can work out where to put you in my reads. I want to trust you, but I have no reason to eliminate you. Help me out. Who all do you still have in your PoE and why?

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Every time I say to myself that the most logical wolf behavior would be XYZ, Creature is doing exactly that.
There are some serious theather vibes coming from this post.
I don’t even know what that means

It means it feels fake.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:08 pm nope what's up?

You have been found by the cop and now you are being yeeted, what are your last words

Has hollowkat even posted today

Quote above broke.

But the answer is he just feels right tbh.

Also the thing you are describing can be easily explained by Creature not being sure of his reads, which is well, normal.

[VOTE: hollowkat] aubergine

For the towncore.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:35 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:19 am guillo if you and creature can stop fighting we can form a towncore plz and thank you
I cant form towncore with someone who both “suspects” me and townreads me because that is an indication of fabricated pushes.

Why is Creature good for you?

Creature wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:48 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 12:31 pm
Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:56 am I had a good all analysis on Dizzy and lost it because the site had logged me out against my will and when i tried to log in using my credentials it failed the first time so i lost it all. I did it on my phone which was difficult to do.

Im pissed! I need to cool off before i do it again. Fuck this site
I first made a complaint about that in maybe 2017-2018. I have long since lost hope that bug will ever be fixed.
I thought it was only me who logged out whenever I had internet problems.

For me I think it's impossible to send a PM on phone unless I'm quoting someone. If I try to send the first message, the site logs me out automatically every time. For that reason I don't even try to host games in this site if I only have mobile access.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:56 am I had a good all analysis on Dizzy and lost it because the site had logged me out against my will and when i tried to log in using my credentials it failed the first time so i lost it all. I did it on my phone which was difficult to do.

Im pissed! I need to cool off before i do it again. Fuck this site

I first made a complaint about that in maybe 2017-2018. I have long since lost hope that bug will ever be fixed.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:13 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:01 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:32 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:30 pm GTH scum team is hollowkat, daisy and dizzy. Maybe wilgy in place of one of them.

Undecided on Urist, I'm now entertaining the idea that mafia would at least make a more balanced act than whatever hes doing.
Talk to me about Daisy plz

What do you mean by a more balanced act re: Urist?
Like, what has she even done

As for Urist I tend to think mafia won't pick playstyles that go out of their way to piss people off.
It only matters if it pisses me off, yeah?

Hmm maybe

guillo if you and creature can stop fighting we can form a towncore plz and thank you

yeah I kinda like creature, wouldn't shoot

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 9:32 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:30 pm GTH scum team is hollowkat, daisy and dizzy. Maybe wilgy in place of one of them.

Undecided on Urist, I'm now entertaining the idea that mafia would at least make a more balanced act than whatever hes doing.
Talk to me about Daisy plz

What do you mean by a more balanced act re: Urist?

Like, what has she even done

As for Urist I tend to think mafia won't pick playstyles that go out of their way to piss people off.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 11:39 pm First of Creature, I didn't do anything discreetly, I flat out explained the only reason I had him in my PoE was because I had no reason to eliminate him.

I don't know you, but I can see how you are acting in this game and it is so beyond shady.

I'm positive of only Dizzy, and I feel really confident in Guillo town, based on how his posts read to me. Urist I feel fairly confident in too, but not fully able to dismiss.

Everyone else is in my PoE.

Wilgy, do me a favor and give me a little bit more to chew on from you. I fully suspect that when they took out those two posters, the wolves are stepping in to fill the void. When the night ended I sat back to watch and see who did that. Unsurprisingly Creature and DDL. Two people are already felt suspicious of.

I would like to hear some thoughts from you so I can work out where to put you in my reads. I want to trust you, but I have no reason to eliminate you. Help me out. Who all do you still have in your PoE and why?

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Every time I say to myself that the most logical wolf behavior would be XYZ, Creature is doing exactly that.

There are some serious theather vibes coming from this post.

Creature last time I played with you, you were grossly scummy, like actually refused to do anything and was almost begging for a policy yeet. You were town. The fact you are doing things now is making my tinfoil senses spin like crazy.

I will die before I learn how to read Wilgy.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:47 pmFart

Ew.

[VOTE: Dizzy] aubergine

Self-meta: I don't think I'm 100% immune to having meltdowns as mafia, but I think that pretty much only happens if I'm town, because if I'm mafia my actual social interactions are in wolfchat and everything I say in the thread is for appearances.

I did fabricate a meltdown as a jester once, though. But jester has a reason to do that, mafia doesn't, really.

Like this has happened so much in TS it's a meme.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:28 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:25 pm Also I told you guys Sig was in his classic town tinfoiling meta and nobody listened. People always yeet him because he says things they disagree with, even though that is NAI for him. Double meh.
tea

ehm

eye

Also, I don't get it...is it in his classic town tinfoil meta, or is it NAI? Cuz' it can't be both

Sig makes a bunch of crazy theories.

People say "a townie wouldn't have those theories!"

The theories aren't actually scummy and shouldn't be treated as such. Opinions aren't inherently alignment indicative.

And if you know scum sig, he actually makes them less often as scum.

GTH scum team is hollowkat, daisy and dizzy. Maybe wilgy in place of one of them.

Undecided on Urist, I'm now entertaining the idea that mafia would at least make a more balanced act than whatever hes doing.

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:26 pm DDL, I think Dyslexicon is wolf here. What's your take?

Leaning wolf since day 1 but not super confident. He stopped looking "mean" to me but nothing about his day 2 awed me.

Also I told you guys Sig was in his classic town tinfoiling meta and nobody listened. People always yeet him because he says things they disagree with, even though that is NAI for him. Double meh.

So I've been waiting the whole night phase to post this.

I want to apologize to both @Urist and @NotAnAxehole for my outburst yesterday.

To sum it up, I started arguing with Urist about gameplay and then NAA started taunting me and bragging about the fact I wouldn't do anything to them, and that set me off in some way. I started treating the two as an unit and feeling like they were bullying me as well as the rest of the players. To be honest I still think NAA acted mean to me in a way that is unecessary that was unecessary, and I still disagree with Urist's gameplay choices, but neither of those warranted my exaggerated reaction. So for that I'm sorry.

I'm not going to ignore Urist on purpose from now on, and I won't boycott his night plan eiter, cuz yeah, that's stupid. I likely won't interact with him much either though, because I still think his playstyle makes it impossible for me to engage him normally. But that isn't spite, it's just my assessment of the game situation.

Sometimes I get incredibly mad for a few hours (usually in the internet), and that tends to happen when I think I'm being victim of injustice, or someone else is. Then later I realize I was wrong and have to apologize. I hate that it happens, but it's something I have been trying to control, with varying results. Meh.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:10 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:04 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:04 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:02 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:00 pm If some/most of you guys could give four person POEs, that would be super helpful for me to organize how everyone is viewing the game. Or your confident lock town reads, either is helpful. Tyty.
the problem with giving a public PoE is that it tells the mafia whether they should gamble on a nanook shot tonight.

We're going to have to play mafia at some point.
We are playing mafia. Not every game of mafia is required to have the same style of play.

I do believe it behooves us to have Nanook hold his cards close to his chest, as he's doing. I don't believe that everyone else should do the same, at least in regards to giving reads. (They probably should when it comes to talking about night targets).

But Nanook playing discretely means that the rest of us still have to work to give him information to work with. Otherwise we might as well just let him rand his shot every day. I haven't run the numbers on that, but town's odds of winning are likely pretty low if we do that.

I once ran a simulation for some setup I was making and it was 27%.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:07 pm Btw, what was the other game with this same setup?

Space Invaders. I was the host.

It's a game designed at Pokemon Showdown, which I've adapted to have a higher player number (the original was like 9 I think).

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:04 pm This setup seems so weird now. I feel like last time, it was super easy to get reads and discussions going. Maybe because Nut had the gun and jumped on everyone and everywhere.

Now I'm just like waiting for whatever Nook is going to do and in a general meh mood.

If we need it later, maybe infuse this with a whoever gets the most votes gets shot or something, to make something more happen. Or at least pretend. Dunno

I mean that is kind of the dream setup for nook.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:57 pm There has been literally zero sense about why I’d be mafia at all. The only reasoning anyone has given was because of some assumptions about what drives the mafia kill and then presumption it is me by people who have literally never played with me before so I have no idea how I’m even in this list in the first place.

I'm not gonna dispute this but so far I've seen little reason to think you're town either.

Also the timing of this post is weird, I'm not seeing you get attacked that much tbh.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:57 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:41 pm Dude, I made that disclaimer because I want to stop discussing this. Can we stop discussing this before the mods come here again and ask me to stop discussing this? Thanks.
Are you gonna follow the night plan

No. I'll protect you whenever I feel like it, based on my own criteria.

If you want to policy kill me for it, go ahead. I'm town though, so I don't think it will be good for our faction anyway.

Dude, I made that disclaimer because I want to stop discussing this. Can we stop discussing this before the mods come here again and ask me to stop discussing this? Thanks.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:35 pm For some reason I thought you were a fairly rational player

Oh I am, it's just that my reason isn't strictly used to winning or losing the game I'm playing. The things I believe in outside the scope of the game are also things I use my reason to deal with.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:30 pm I don't understand the vitriol towards urist and axe? They're both contributing and playing the setup, regardless of their alignment, so I'm not sure i see an issue

And threatening to ignore a night plan cosigned by the IC just for spite is like

Not something I expected from you lol

I've done worse.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:22 pm I'm glad you're willing to approach the game in a way that you can contribute.

That said, I honestly don't understand the argument that NAA and Urist are trolling.

Imo, NAA is stating reads, interacting with players, and pushing a night-action strategy that he thinks is optimal.

Imo, Urist is advocating for players to play in a manner that gives scum little information to plan around. He thinks that's optimal. I completely disagree, and think it's kinda scummy he's pushing that.

But I don't understand how you see it as trolling. If you don't want to talk about it, feel free to ignore this post. I'm stating what I see, and it's clearly not what you see.

Ok sure maybe they aren't trolling and the word is unwarranted.

(I did not use that word in my last post btw, so that isn't really the angle I'm going with anymore).

But they are playing in a way I am not interested in doing myself, even if it's the objectively best way to win the game, and that gives me no way of talking to them besides begging them to interact, which, as we have noticed, makes me angry and emotional. So it's best for everyone involved if I only engage with the people who want to engage back. The two can stay in their corner doing math if they wish, I'm not going there myself.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:47 pm I reread Dizzy's ISO. Mean is not the word that I'd use to describe him, where did you see that @Dragon D. Luffy?

Dizzy's posts where he called myself and Michelle "ok" doesn't look good in light of Michelle flipping wolf.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:00 pm Ok, I can actually vibe with Michelle + Marmot as pretty ok though.

In particular because this is Dizzy's only mention of Michelle, and it's a very mild read at that based on nothing in particular (though vibe reads are very real thins, I just don't see a reason for it here). I'm gathering that Dizzy is calling us both town in this post, can you clarify @Dyslexicon?

The main indicator was his overuse of "I don't care". Felt pouty. I also felt a tone of sarcasm coming from his posts I didn't like much.

Alright, I've cooled my head down so I have a disclaimer to make.

Since NAA and Urist have stated they do not intend to scumhunt or interact with people in a way related to scumhunting or solving alignments, and since, as they have pointed out, I cannot vote or kill them myself, I have decided I will not interact with them whatsoever for the rest of the game.

This forum doesn't have an user blocking function afaik, but I'll be acting like it did. As far as i'm concerned, NAA and Urist don't exist. They have decided they won't give their time to the game, so I'm not giving them my time either. I hope Nanook sorts their alignment out orthe mafia kills them (if they are town), and if those things don't happen, there's nothing I can about that.

I also announce I will disregard Urist's table when deciding my night actions, because he does not deserve the satisfaction of telling me what to do after announcing his intent of being antisocial with me. I don't care if this ends up being suboptimal: I'd rather lose this game than play it in a way that invalidates the main reason I play Mafia in the first place, which is socializing with other people. Some things are more important than winning or losing.

This policy currently applies to this game alone, and no other places.

Thank you players, and mods, for your patience. I will now resume reading the game's posts and trying to solve the alignments of the people who came here to play mafia.

I caught up most posts since my last one but this game is making me angry. I'm making a lot of effort not to flame Urist and NAA for the fact they apparently signed up just to troll people.

I need time away from this game.

I guess if you guys need some reads, Sig looks like classic tinfoil Sig. Do not shoot there. Urist/NAA could be mafia and I don't care. Hollowkat probably mafia. Guillo def town. I like Creature and Marmot now. No opinions on the rest. Me not having opinions on someone is a worse sign than otherwise, but not strongly.

Yeah this game isn't gonna be fun to play if half the plauers are gonna go "nothing matters just let nanook do everything"

I guess I gonna stop posting for today then and let nanook do everything.

See you next phase.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:55 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:51 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:49 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:44 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:42 am Sorry, but this is objectively false, Nanook has the gun. LOL
And he has no way of making informed decisions unless people post and participate.

Also if you are gonna just spend the game quoting people and telling them "lol all you said don't matter since you don't have the gun", I'll just ignore you because that isn't useful and isn't funny.
My point isn't that your opinion doesn't matter, it's that... Assume Urist knows he's not getting shot, his posting so that people can read him better is really meaningless.
And you think he knows that because... ?
I mean, I can say with 95+% confidence that Urist is not getting shot today.

I don't want you to take my posts the wrong way, I was simply saying you're wrong because you don't have a good grasp on how Nanook is viewing the game. I'm not saying that what YOU post doesn't matter because you don't have a gun. I did earlier say that Falcon's read on me didn't matter because he didn't have a gun... You can expect me to continue to not reply to people's reads on me this game.

I don't haver anything to reply to your claim that you can read nanook's mind besides "Okay".

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:49 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:44 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:42 am Sorry, but this is objectively false, Nanook has the gun. LOL
And he has no way of making informed decisions unless people post and participate.

Also if you are gonna just spend the game quoting people and telling them "lol all you said don't matter since you don't have the gun", I'll just ignore you because that isn't useful and isn't funny.
My point isn't that your opinion doesn't matter, it's that... Assume Urist knows he's not getting shot, his posting so that people can read him better is really meaningless.

And you think he knows that because... ?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:42 am Sorry, but this is objectively false, Nanook has the gun. LOL

And he has no way of making informed decisions unless people post and participate.

Also if you are gonna just spend the game quoting people and telling them "lol all you said don't matter since you don't have the gun", I'll just ignore you because that isn't useful and isn't funny.

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:34 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:07 am
Urist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:43 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:31 am
Urist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:02 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:11 am
Urist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:08 am

Don't claim your shots.
Who says im not lying.
It doesn't matter. Just don't claim.
So you are saying im town now?
I'm saying if you are town, don't claim.
Do you have any opinions on anything that are not mechanics?

Of your 25 posts, only 1 talks about people's alignments, and it's from yesterday, so for Day 2 you are at zero. If participation in scumhunting was to be used as a criterium for who to yeet, you are the first option.
i already said that guillotine is mafia, what more do you want from me

There are 3 wolves in the game, so you need to do more than at least 3 people. Currently you are doing more than 0 people.

Guillo I see a nonzero chance Nanook shoots you out of annoyance that you keep saying he's sheeping you.

[VOTE: Urist] aubergine

Since votes don't really matter, I want to highlight this.

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:43 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:31 am
Urist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 10:02 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:11 am
Urist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:08 am
Guillotine wrote: ↑Fri Feb 11, 2022 1:42 am LOL

Get wrecked Michelle, don't ever say that I don't have a god read on you.

Also, @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME it took me gaslighting you to finally sheep me on my scum reads, if I knew that is how you roll I would have done it before.

By the way.. I holstered my doctor shots last night so I might or might not self protect tonight.

Now, let's kill [VOTE: Hollowkatt] aubergine shall we? The guy tried to pocket me yesterday and defended Michelle when I asked him to vote her with me.

Why did I ask him specifically? Because Hollowkatt knew this wolf tell from Michelle and town!hollowkatt would have supported my push on her.
Don't claim your shots.
Who says im not lying.
It doesn't matter. Just don't claim.
So you are saying im town now?
I'm saying if you are town, don't claim.

Do you have any opinions on anything that are not mechanics?

Of your 25 posts, only 1 talks about people's alignments, and it's from yesterday, so for Day 2 you are at zero. If participation in scumhunting was to be used as a criterium for who to yeet, you are the first option.

I have no idea what to think of Marmot and that scares me, usually I have Marmotopinions soon enough, he feels a bit contained here. Lean scum.

falcon looks a little better after I made the post where I said he looked bad, like I can't read him well but he feels somewhat similar to last game?

Did Urist do anything besides math

GTH scum team is hollow, Urist and Marmot.

I agree Creature's mechanical rampage following by his declaration to drop mechanics looked bad as hell but here's the thing with Creature, he tends to look too scummy to be scum.

Between him and Hollowkat, I can see maybe one being acum that opportunistically joined the mech talk last day, but two scum doing that is unlikely (since it was just them and NAA for the bulk of it).

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:54 pm I'm struggling to figure out how to talk about alignments though

Also this feels kinda bad, as if scum realized he needs to talk alignments and not just mech son they spit this empty excuse.

Why was he struggling? What were his gut reads? Etc.

Yeah ok I can believe the teammate theory.

[VOTE: Hollowkat] aubergine

The lack of ISO links is a crime against humanity.

@dunya

I feel like sheeping Guillo but I don't wanna sheep.

Help.

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