The Syndicate

Holy shit my scumdar was terrible this game.

Well ggwp mafia.

Oh I see the suspicion on Wilgy is that he not dead yet. But that doesn't mean much. So far they killed players who were not being suspected much, either, so those make sense. There is no rule that mafia has to target the talkative ones first.

I want to do ISOs for Eloh and Daisy too, as they are possible suspects. But I don't think I have the patience for more rounds of this (I'm not JJJ, lol). Wilgy could be an interesting one too, as I read him as civ but you can never be sure. If someone else wants to gets their hands dirty, be my guess.

Ok let's do some work here.

ISO on Scotty

Scotty's day 1 is usually worthless. He can say some useful stuff, but he will always vote for a random low poster by default, so forget about doing any vote analysis here. Let's see if there is anything useful here though.

Scotty wrote:I think Elo looks pretty genuine here.

I thank DDL for explaining the show to me. +1 for that.

I thunk about voting MM like old times sake, but will probably end up voting a low poster (though it's looking more and more like I Amgoing to be hypocritical low poster

Civ read on Elo 1.0. Says he'll vote for a low poster right off the bat (nothing new here). Says he might be a low poster himself. Something that did not end becoming true, btw.

Scotty wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:is character claiming allowed?

Yo, I'm sure baddies received an alias so it doesn't become unbalanced if everyone just outright claims. That you are readily claiming a character makes me suspicious of you.

Goes after INH for a seemengly inocuous post from him (the "daredevil claim", but that remark ended up becoming the basis for the INH suspicion early game.

Scotty wrote: Wow, a rainbow read already and wow, I'm at the top? I don't think I've ever been at the top of a rainbow list. What have I done to deserve such an honor and why is INH at the bottom of your list?

Scotty wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:DrWilgy is my top civread.

Why?

Mike Tyson is my top civread.

Questions MM and WIlgy's reads, so no issues on activity from Scotty here. He is participating and doing his job as a civ. Not that making those questions is a difficult feat, though.

Scotty wrote:Dammm I missed the vote because the daylight savings wasn't updated on the site.

I would have voted INH

Guess a lot of people missed it tho

Interesting, no vote on a low poster this time? I'd expect him to vote for Dom or Sorsha. Or myself.

Keeps his suspicion on INH as voiced earlier.

Scotty wrote:I think INH is bad

Yeah it's possible to guess that, Scotty.

Scotty wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Scotty wrote:I think INH is bad

is there anything you want me to respond to, or is it just a tone/feels read type thing?

Yes

Not sure what he means by "yes" here, that's not the right type of answer to that question.

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Interesting. I'm looking forward to Timmer answering INH's question.

Zebra, now that powers are in play, can I have a role/character list?

INH, I stated thus previously, my vote wasn't random. Should I have not broken the tie? Should I have not voted? This "single-handed" meme is dumb, 8 people missed votes and I feel like I'm getting flak for it.

Scotty would you mind explaining why you are suspicious of INH?

Not until you answer my question:

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:My condolences Indiglo.


Rainbow time:
Scotty
Daisy
DDL
Sriracha
Dom
Timmer
Eloh
Indiglo
DF
Epi
MM
INH

May vote for DF, Epi, MM or INH...

Wow, a rainbow read already and wow, I'm at the top? I don't think I've ever been at the top of a rainbow list. What have I done to deserve such an honor and why is INH at the bottom of your list?

Wilgy wants an explanation on the INH bad read, Scotty deflects and demands an explanation on WIlgy 's INH bad read. I don't see the point of tyhat, you guys share a suspicion, why not talk openly about it?

Scotty wrote:

indiglo wrote:@ timmer - Are you surprised you survived the lynch? Do you know why you survived?


The way timmer was posting after the poll was closed and before the post went up struck me as very civ, off hand. But hearing from him about it will be helpful.

See, I saw it as a person that knew they were going to be looked at as civ on the flip, and not necessarily an actual civ. I think he knew he was going to survive, and because the roles are hidden, his anonymity is a strong boon for his game. I know it would be if he were bad, shoving blame at Wilgy.

Granted, I'm feeling less than great about the prospects of Wilgy being civ.

Whether timmer is a civ or mafia aligned, he is definitely a power role. The other option is a possible 3rd party lynch pardon, but that would be a wasteful use on day 1 without info and I'm willing to rule that out completely.

Suspects Wilgy. Apparently because of WIlgy's unexplained INH read? Scotty keeps being vague and it's annoying. His opinion on Timmer is vague too, as could be th opinion of someone who might have to bus his teammate at any moment. Or he's just not sure.

Scotty wrote:Oops, ignore that last post quote

DrWilgy wrote:Why do people think I'm not civ? At least call me bad...

Sorry, I must've missed the question Scotty. The reason is that INH is willing to say things without purpose.

Well I'm not going to limit myself to just calling someone bad or good in this game. Could be an indie role as one of the 3 power roles.

Unless that advent was removed in these heist games.


Your reason for suspecting him is...slightly parallel to your own style, methinks.

Ok so now you two are in the same page? I guess? COnsidering Scotty never gave a reason for suspecting INH before other than the Daredevil BS, it's hard to say if this is honest or fabricated. Was he waiting to see if he should jump on Wilgy or INH? Or is Scotty just being his usual weird self?

Scotty wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Scotty wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Scotty wrote:I think INH is bad

is there anything you want me to respond to, or is it just a tone/feels read type thing?

Yes

So, both?

If the first part is correct, could you please share the thing you want me to respond to, so I can then respond to it? Looking through your post history, the only thing I can find is you thinking my Daredevil joke was an actual claim.

Ah, I didn't know daredevil wasn't in this show. Totally thought you were claiming.

As for any other reason for suspecting you- day 1 gut. Nothing you can really respond to or anything I can substantiate

Alright then. Gut.

Scotty wrote:There's not a lot of voting analyses to be done on day 1 because we were missing 8 votes (me included). I would like to say that Wilgy looks better in this game than he did as a baddie in the War of the Dynasties or whatever that was called. Wilgy is much less WIFOM Pie and more of a Messy Salsa this game.
I attribute that to him being antsy and ready to go after being unceremoniously lynched in Mad Max.

Not a whole lot to go on from a lot of people. I think Wilgy is attracting slight ire from people because he is the most vocal person in thread now, putting shtuff out there but then again, vocal does not a baddie make.

Elo, would a bad Epi normally kill you off if he knew you were on to him day 1?
I remember being on a baddie team with him once where he said he would rather end your time on the game if you had a lot on your plate and mafia was only getting in the way (paraphrasing, but he general idea is there). Do you think this constitutes?

Now he is fully in WIlgy's side. Also some speculation on Epi's alignment which doesn't mean much.

Scotty wrote:I want to believe that one of the power roles afforded us is a 1-shot civ lynch stopper in timmer and not some BS kill surviving baddie. That would be a pretty weak dynamic IMO for the baddies and would expect a GF or role blocker at least. But then again, I'm not zebra, I'm only an ass

I'm putting timmer in my temporarily civ portfolio right now, and would not like to lynch him.
Timmer, any more reads besides Wilgy? Not a lot to go on, I know.

And Timmer is now a civ. If Scotty is bad, maybe he was waiting to see if someone would out Timmer and since they didn't, he's more confortable with suspecting him? If Scotty is civ his reason for trusting TImmer is reasonable.

Scotty wrote:Because I don't have a lot to go on, and don't know if I'll be around before the day ends, I went ahead and placed a vote on INH. It's pretty weak reasoning, and it's just a hunch, but I'm sticking to it.

Votes INH. Admits it is weak reasoning.

Next is some suspicions on a bunch of people. MM, DF, etc. Not much to say here.

Scotty wrote:Okie dokie. Good try, MM.

So we still know nothing of Epi's alignment except if he is bad he has to be Kilgrave. Whoever that is.

I don't want to jump on timmer just yet, but I would fathom that in no way is he Kilgrave.

Let's look at this logically. Would zebra give a bad timmer the ability to lynch stop AND have a baddie that can't die until his minions are dead? I think that's overkill in favor of he baddies. I think timmer is a civvie role.

For all intents and purposes, in this heist game, we've basically already been given info on all 3 power roles, and none of them are protective or investigative. MM was our vigi, timmer could stop a lynch (maybe just his own) and the baddie godfather is fucking lynch proof until the others die before him. I almost feel Kilgrave is TOO OP in this small game, and therefore (now that I've typed out this logic) that we must assume timmer is civ. This is going to turn into simple deduction at this point.

Timmer, would you feel comfortable saying who your role is?

Elohcin wrote:DF was killed AND MM is dead?

Yes. Do you have anything else to add to discussion, fair Elo?

He makes a wrong assumption about how Killgrave works and uses it to explain why Timmer can be bad. I correct him. He immediately admits his wrongness and embraces the Timmer = evil side.

Not sure if a mafia would have done the former tbh, since at this point Timmer is as outed as he can be. So this can be a civ sign. If this is not faked too.

He then goes and makes one elaborate quote post on why Eloh 2.0 is suspicious. I kind of agree with it.

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Baddie team is: Timmer, INH and Elo 2.0

This is what I was gonna say. But I'm still open to suggestions and can change my mind.

Though I think the option exists still to switch INH, who I have parked my vote on twice in a row now, to Epi as well.

Either way, timmer must not get votes until his teammates are dead.

Scotty wrote:I forgot Sorsha was even in this game. She's been busy petting Mickey Mouse or something and hasn't posted since Ray 1.

She can't be ruled out of discussion as an MIa timmer teammate.

Scotty wrote:Just reread Spacedaisy's big meaty sausage of a post.



She might be on to something with INH. I formally would like to nominate her for civ grand wizard. and president of the United States plz

Somewhat flip-floppy here, but then Daisy comes and makes her entrance and Scotty joins #teamlynchINH for good. Also makes his first suspicion at Sorsha.

Scotty wrote:

Spacedaisy wrote:

Scotty wrote:Okie dokie. Good try, MM.

So we still know nothing of Epi's alignment except if he is bad he has to be Kilgrave. Whoever that is.

I don't want to jump on timmer just yet, but I would fathom that in no way is he Kilgrave.

Let's look at this logically. Would zebra give a bad timmer the ability to lynch stop AND have a baddie that can't die until his minions are dead? I think that's overkill in favor of he baddies. I think timmer is a civvie role.

For all intents and purposes, in this heist game, we've basically already been given info on all 3 power roles, and none of them are protective or investigative. MM was our vigi, timmer could stop a lynch (maybe just his own) and the baddie godfather is fucking lynch proof until the others die before him. I almost feel Kilgrave is TOO OP in this small game, and therefore (now that I've typed out this logic) that we must assume timmer is civ. This is going to turn into simple deduction at this point.

Timmer, would you feel comfortable saying who your role is?

Elohcin wrote:DF was killed AND MM is dead?

Yes. Do you have anything else to add to discussion, fair Elo?

Scotty had this quasi-defense of timmer, but then followed it up with:

Scotty wrote:Ohhhhhh I just blundered in my logic. Damned morning logic before coffee.

Timmer could very well be Kilgrave. Sorry bout that, DDL.

Basically ignore what I just said defending timmer. He's definitely scum.

after DDL pointed out the flaw in his logic. I really think this was just mistake, but it's not the first time he has soft defended timmer:

well, technically I posted that less than a minute after, but I came to that on my own before reading his response. Sort of like how I'm now remembering I literally just posted that I assumed Epi had to be one of the non-lynch proof baddies which is the complete opposite of what I meant. I just shouldn't mafia in the morning. I need to pee

Scotty wrote:

indiglo wrote:@ timmer - Are you surprised you survived the lynch? Do you know why you survived?


The way timmer was posting after the poll was closed and before the post went up struck me as very civ, off hand. But hearing from him about it will be helpful.

See, I saw it as a person that knew they were going to be looked at as civ on the flip, and not necessarily an actual civ. I think he knew he was going to survive, and because the roles are hidden, his anonymity is a strong boon for his game. I know it would be if he were bad, shoving blame at Wilgy.

Granted, I'm feeling less than great about the prospects of Wilgy being civ.

Whether timmer is a civ or mafia aligned, he is definitely a power role. The other option is a possible 3rd party lynch pardon, but that would be a wasteful use on day 1 without info and I'm willing to rule that out completely.

Again, I don't feel sold on his being bad though, just not as confident on his being civ as I am about you and Epi.
i totally did defend him because I found the prospect of a baddie being lynchproof silly and timmer looked authentically annoyed with how it went down. Oh man I need to pee..stupid car rides

Daisy accuses him of defending Timmer. He explains he is confused about the game mechanics, which is plausible.

He then votes INH without saying anything more.

Next is some OT posts, as the INH bandwagon steamrolls him.

Scotty wrote:With INH "legacy" post it occurs to me that perhaps I am being bamboozled by both wilgy and Spacedaisy. But if we are wrong and INH is in fact good, it might be a moot point anyway if this is as close to LyLo as I think it might be.

I can see a SD/Wilgy combo with timmer's WIFOM vote for Wilgy, but also wouldn't be surprised at a SD/Elo 2.0. She was my first choice of lynch today but figured consolidation was best under the circumstances.

As the lynch becomes inevitable, a possible bad Scotty ancipates the result and prepares the finger pointing in advance. Bamboozled by Daisy, you say? What about the fact you have been all over INH since day 1?

I do not like this. He is avoiding responsibility for his own decisions.

THough INH's big post did make it look like he was a civ, so Scotty is maybe being super-proactive?

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Did we know about Kilgrave at the time INH?

Also the fact that INH thought votes were changable when that post was made makes me feel alittle better.

Agreed.

I also think that if INH flips bad, it may not be a bad idea like you said to murk Sorsha. I think Elo has more going against her however, like this late bandwagon vote.

More speculation on who to lynch here. The Elo thing is NAI. The Sorsha thing is a little pingy though, as a wagon on an inactive at this point could cost us the game, and Scotty is softly pushing it.

Scotty wrote:Well fak.

I'm almost inclined to vote Wilgy tomorrow just because he has the most posts and hasn't been NK'd.

If there is a tomorrow.

You have been "almost inclined" to lynch everybody in this game, Scotty.

Scotty wrote:I'm more just ciurious what awesome power that last PR has on the civ side. I hope it's the doc or something.

Because I sure as hell don't know anything.

But i also think a Sorsha vote is the last thing we need right now. I'm usually on the side favoring low posters, but certainly not at LyLo with other info available to us.

Wilgy, why shouldnt we lynch you?

I explain why I oppose the Sorsha lynch, and he immediately does a 180 on it. This is the most important post of this ISO. It's the reason I decided to do it in the first place. It came across as incredibly disingenuous. It's like Scotty lacks and opinion of his own, and is just going around testing the wagons to see if any of them might start moving.

And now that he has been "bamboozled" by WIlgy into lynching INH, he is ready to blame it all on him. He doesn't go and build a case though, and rather asks a empty question to him. Why should we lynch Wilgy, Scotty? What is the case here? You tell us that.

Overall, Scotty can be a civ, but I see too many non-commital posts to believe that. I'm not easy about this because Scotty has been a pretty common civ lynch in this site, and he tends to rub people the wrong way, but I don't like how he has acted with the INH thing, and I don't like his recent finger pointing after his death. If he is bad, he is playing a stellar game, being pro-active and doing the textbook civ behavior, so I could be just paranoid. But I think there is malice hidden behind all that.

I oppose lynching Sorsha tomorrow if she is still inactive. At this point it doesn't matter what order we lynch the two Killgrave lackeys so I might as well go after the one we have a hope to read, and that will give us more information to help us find the second obe. It lso gives it extra time for Sorsha to become active, or for zebra to find a replacement for her. Also if Sorsha is a civ, this is a winning lynh for the baddies which she can't even defend again. I don't want to make that bet now.

So I say ignore Sorsha and lynch one of the active players next day.

Sigh.

There is no such thing as an obvious baddie at Mafia Syndicate.

If IHN bothered to write that post even though he is bad Im gonna lmao

Never underestimate Epi's ability to bus people.

Im only hesitating to call him bad right now because MM's hint is just that convincing.

Timmer, Eloh, one of Sorsha/Scotty/Daisy

I'd go with Eloh. My gut says INH is too scummy to be scum.

And yeah I missed the MM hint. Sorry I'm terrible at catching those.

I hope people don't tunnel vision on these two players though. That may be exactly what mafia wants. I've nwver seen a syndicate game where the baddies were obvious and I doubt this will be the first one.

DrWilgy wrote:I agree with DDL regarding Timmer. DDL, how is Epi bad? I think Marmot suggested that he wouldn't target INH or I, but did target Epi, thus meaning he's immortal or civ.

Where did he say he targeted Epi?

You are overcomplicating it. There is only one ability: it makes Timmer completely immortal until his teammates are dead.

Voted epi thinking votes were still changeable, then realized they were not.

<facepalm>

Epi it is, then.

Epi and Eloh: right now, what do you think of each other in this game?

Timmer is as good as confirmed scum at this point. Even disregarding MM's hint, what is the chance two players can survive lynches in a classic game? I mean...

I'm not feeling the INH lynch right now. I think for a bad, he is trying too hard to piss people off. Ive cpme to learn bads in this site are seldom obvious like that, and in general try to be likable way more than IHN are rigt now.

Im feeling Epi and Elo as bad though. Maybe Scotty or Sorsha, but mostly the former two. Eloh for the reasons Daisy said, Epi because I can totally see him and timmer bussing each other like that, especially in a game where timmer should be expecting to be confirmed bad at any point. Then again, the fact he was expecting to be confirmed adds a thick layer of wifom to all his interactions with other people.

Oh I thought it would include other people's posts, now I get it.

<posts>

insertnamehere wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:INH has some posts that look like textbook scum. He sounds manipulative. The whole "I would vote Wilgy is I could" is pingy, following the RNG vote trend is pingy, saying there is nothing useful to read on day 1 is extra pingy.

How is me wanting to vote Wilgy after the vote closes pingy?

Because saying you want to vote for someone doesn't have the same weight of actually voting, and is a good way of saying something without taking responsibility.

insertnamehere wrote:How is randomly voting on a quiet Day 1 pingy?

How is having a different opinion than you on Day 1 suspicions extra pingy?

Because the whole "day 1 is useless so I'm not gonna do anything" is the ultimate excuse for not hunting bads.

And the ones who don't want to hunt bads are, by definition, bad. The only way for civilians to win this game is if people read whatever posts are available and try. Random voting produces no lynches, no leads, and no information.

Wait, votes are changeable?

I'm okay with this Indiglo lynch.

*votes*

Sorry my friend, I know you are going through a hard time, bit thia is about what role you drew.

indiglo wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

indiglo wrote:RIP Elo, and welcome back.

No one has mentioned it, so I will. Does it mean anything that she was immediately pinged by Epi, and she was obviously a civ?


@ INH - regarding roles, iirc, when the role list was up, all 3 of Kilgrave, Jessica and Luke were listed as the baddie team. I'm 95% sure that's right, because it struck me as very odd, and really stood out in my mind. She could have changed the role lineup of course, but nevertheless that's how she had it set up previously.

I am assuming that in a game like this, role claims are all not to be believed... so I'm deciding not to even think about Ruben. I've not played a closed setup game before, but for my money not believing any claim is the way to go. (Especially if the claimed character isn't even on the show. )

Couples have a mystical ability to scumhunt each other, so I'll keep that in mind. I've seen both BR and Silverwolf destroy their significant others in games before.

Not sure what to think about Epi myself though. He is awfully quiet in this game, but I'm not sure if that actually means anything.

Do you think it means anything that after replacing back in, she completely backed off her original Epi suspicion and pretty much did a complete 180 on him?

I didn't see that. She was mildly suspecting him before, and she is mildly suspecting him now. Probably a little less, bit far from a 180.

Where is everyone? Do the people have something more important to do this night?

Porbably voting between MM and indiglo, because I have a bad story of going after obvious suspects in this forum and having that backfire.

Ok, let's go to the suspects.

INH has some posts that look like textbook scum. He sounds manipulative. The whole "I would vote Wilgy is I could" is pingy, following the RNG vote trend is pingy, saying there is nothing useful to read on day 1 is extra pingy.

Something is off about MM. I mean, more than usual. Can't put my finger on it. But I guess I didn't like how he said Wilgy was his top civ read out of the blue, and that question to me about Epi's bussing rubbed me the wrong way.

Indiglo still feels suspish. She is talking about game mechanics almost all the time (which is a classic tell), and her friendliness seems forced at points. She is there, and she is posting, but she is not doing much.

I should have enough time to vote tomorrow, so I'm gonna wait.

Epi, what do you think of Elo in this game? Post-replacement, of course.

indiglo wrote:RIP Elo, and welcome back.

No one has mentioned it, so I will. Does it mean anything that she was immediately pinged by Epi, and she was obviously a civ?


@ INH - regarding roles, iirc, when the role list was up, all 3 of Kilgrave, Jessica and Luke were listed as the baddie team. I'm 95% sure that's right, because it struck me as very odd, and really stood out in my mind. She could have changed the role lineup of course, but nevertheless that's how she had it set up previously.

I am assuming that in a game like this, role claims are all not to be believed... so I'm deciding not to even think about Ruben. I've not played a closed setup game before, but for my money not believing any claim is the way to go. (Especially if the claimed character isn't even on the show. )

Couples have a mystical ability to scumhunt each other, so I'll keep that in mind. I've seen both BR and Silverwolf destroy their significant others in games before.

Not sure what to think about Epi myself though. He is awfully quiet in this game, but I'm not sure if that actually means anything.

indiglo wrote:I've never seen Wilgy as real-game-talk-oriented this early in a game as he is here. I don't know if it's alignment indicative or not though.

And I agree, I think it has to be a native protection. The only other option I see as possible is if he were a baddie and someone else on the team had a save and used it. Seems most likely to me that it was a native protection, and not entirely alignment indicative.

Wilgy comes across as a civ that upon seeing a very inactive town, decided to take the mantle. I've seen players do that before, when in other games they would be happy with staying in the sidelines.

A mafia Wilgy would have little reason to change his meta early in the game like that, and attract attention. Unless this is some sort of crazy gambit.

I see people talking about Timmer being a power role and I believe it's simply more likely that there is s governor in town (a role that can stop lynches). Probably some civ who was distressed at the crappy d1 we had and wanted to stop a random lynch.

I don't believe in mafia having the power to redirect lynches, nor in a role that can passively stop lynches, because that's incredibly OP for a generic game.

Though this is the first time I play a generic (classic) game in this site. Do they tend to have very powerful roles?

Zebra, can we have a record of previous polls so we can actually analyse vote patterns?

Thanks.

I see people talking about the timmer lynch but it's hard to understand who vote for whom since I wasn't active day 1.

indiglo wrote:I just found out an old friend of mine died in a fiery car crash due to a drunk driver. Leaves behind his wife of 17 years and 4 sweet kids. I gotta log off.


I randomized, and got DDL.




Dom, I hope you're ok sweetie. Let's all hug our loved ones a little tighter tonight, yeah?

Wow, sorry for your loss. RIP.

Catching up.

Scotty wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:is character claiming allowed?

Yo, I'm sure baddies received an alias so it doesn't become unbalanced if everyone just outright claims. That you are readily claiming a character makes me suspicious of you.

I see what you did here.

Sorry for the lackluster activity guys. I have a game I'm hosting ending right now and had a somewhat busy weekend so haven't had the time to post much or vote. This will change soon enough.

Oh nvm I see it's actually Day 1.

Not voting now then.

I'm gonna jump on this indiglo wagon. Have a gut feeling too. I think she feels too nice.

Well this is a silly reason but this is a Day 0 poll so whatever.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Scotty wrote:What is this show.

I am here?

Woman with super-strength gets kidnapped by villain with mind control powers. VIllain spends months making her his sexual slave or something like that. One day she breaks free, and the show focuses on a few days later, where she tries to live life as a private investigator while dealing with the PSTD from what happened to heThe villain then comes back and no she has to decide if she will face him and become a hero, or just run away.

EBWOP: few months later, not days.

Also hi guys.

Scotty wrote:What is this show.

I am here?

Woman with super-strength gets kidnapped by villain with mind control powers. VIllain spends months making her his sexual slave or something like that. One day she breaks free, and the show focuses on a few days later, where she tries to live life as a private investigator while dealing with the PSTD from what happened to heThe villain then comes back and no she has to decide if she will face him and become a hero, or just run away.