The Syndicate

Tbh if I hosted this game again the Portrait would be in for a big nerf.

I assign things randomly but Im not above messing with them if I don't like what the RNG gave me.

That said my preferred method of messing with things is rolling the dice again.

That said if the RNG had given 2 people in Hufflepuff and 1 in Slytherin, for example, I'm pretty sure I would have left it that way.

I actually don't have an answer for that. It was random, but if the RNG had given something like 3 mafia in one house I'm not sure if I would have changed it or not. I went back and forth on that question for months.

At this point I would have probably left it that way because individual houses matter less in this version of the game then they did in previous ones. But that's trying to predict how I would think in an hypothetical scenario, so meh.

My next side mission has a 3P too. I bet nobody is gonna sleep on it this time!

When I hosted my first games I had a trend where all my indies failed spetacularly. I kept building better and better indie roles but they never won.

I think my first indie to win a game was a survivor, in early 2017.

Since then I've had 3 LMS serial killers win. 2 in this site.

I wonder if there was a big change somewhere down the line, or if it's just coincidence.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:47 amso who won?

3P

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:20 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:24 pm
Soneji wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:16 pm Co-hosting Favorites on NF is just a given now.

Is The Syndicate really ready for Favorites? Did this game prepare them enough?
Well they had U-Pick early this year, which is basically Baby Favorites.

Not sure if they are ready but maybe the only way for them to be ready is throw them right into it.

Or we could get Shizune to host a game in the next queue. A good old WoW game with 6 factions and 3 indies should be a good warm-up. I'd be barred from the queue anyway since I just hosted this. Then we launch Favorites at the end of 2019.
LOL we're not babies. We may not be familiar with the set up but that doesn't mean we'll run crying to our mamas unless it's poorly run or poorly designed. Bring it on I say.

(it's just trash talking, please don't mind it)

But yeah I'm pretty sure this place can handle crazy setups just fine. After CC123 I don't doubt anything.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:52 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:36 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:14 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:44 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:42 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:34 pm Oh Speed about the thing about Patronus counting as self-target. I wasn't sure about it, but I had made it count for Dodo purposes (I usually let self abilities be redirected), so I decided I would count it on the watcher for the sake of consistency.
No issue. If I was confused, I could have asked. Coulda asked about the Diricawl, too, since I got a little confused about it. Thought it was more of a busdrive than a deflection.
It was a busdrive.
Thennnnn I should have visited Quin and never seen the kill?
LC uses Diricawl on Quin
Quin uses [Expecto Patronum] on himself, timmer and Sloonei (Quin redirects to LC)
DH super-kills Quin (redirects to LC)
Speed watches LC (result = DH and Quin)

Ooooooh godanmit. You are right. I forgot to redirect your watching from LC to Quin.

Fucking Dodo.

10 points to Hufflepuff for finding an actual host mistake.

Sorry, dude.
Doesn't the diricawl kind of make an infinite loop lol cause if he watches quin he sees LC targeting him for the dodo right but so you stop it after one redirect idk

I guess you choose how deep into the rabbit hole you wanna go.

Soneji wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 5:16 pm Co-hosting Favorites on NF is just a given now.

Is The Syndicate really ready for Favorites? Did this game prepare them enough?

Well they had U-Pick early this year, which is basically Baby Favorites.

Not sure if they are ready but maybe the only way for them to be ready is throw them right into it.

Or we could get Shizune to host a game in the next queue. A good old WoW game with 6 factions and 3 indies should be a good warm-up. I'd be barred from the queue anyway since I just hosted this. Then we launch Favorites at the end of 2019.

Soneji wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:24 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:53 am
Soneji wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:36 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:36 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:28 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 pm Ok so I believe I have dumped all information you guys might want to know. I'm tired so I'll wait until tomorrow to respond to questions and do game comentary.

Feel free to make praises and criticizes to the game, I don't think there is a perfectly balanced role madness game, but I tried. I will reply to everything tomorrow.
you did an amazing job!!! just looking at the list of night actions I'm stressed out lol, it's really an incredible feat that you handled this game by yourself and sorted everything out.
I've been through worse. Favorites 4, one of my first games, had 58 players, bigger roles, 24 hour phases and some very poor communication between me and the other host ( @Soneji ). After that mayhem, everything feels like a cakewalk. It's just a matter of having a template and being organized.
Will I ever escape the shame of this?
It's not a shame brah, that game was super fun.

For me it's more like the initial action scene of a movie where the hero tries to invade the villain's lair but gets his ass kicked. So he has to start over and train so he has a chance of going there again some day.
It's more that it should have been the uncontested GOAT role madness game due to how brilliant it's design was but faltered due to procrastination and miscommunication. Best mafia faction bonuses, a solid set of indies including GOAT HAL-9000, a varied array of unique town roles.

...I want to do another Favorites.

I submitted a draft for Favorites here once, we could try to co-host it. Problem is you are not getting more than 30-35 players here, at best. But could be a cool way to approach it, like do quality over quantity and make global mechanics that integrate better.

Alternatively you can try to see if iwandesu will let you co-host with him next year.

Actually you should have gotten result = LC since he targeted Quin first of all.

linki: thanks Jay.

Yeah I'm not super hung up about it, I was thinking it too strange that I hadn't made any big mistakes in the whole game. I usually make at least one.

Meh.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:14 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:44 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:42 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:34 pm Oh Speed about the thing about Patronus counting as self-target. I wasn't sure about it, but I had made it count for Dodo purposes (I usually let self abilities be redirected), so I decided I would count it on the watcher for the sake of consistency.
No issue. If I was confused, I could have asked. Coulda asked about the Diricawl, too, since I got a little confused about it. Thought it was more of a busdrive than a deflection.
It was a busdrive.
Thennnnn I should have visited Quin and never seen the kill?

LC uses Diricawl on Quin
Quin uses [Expecto Patronum] on himself, timmer and Sloonei (Quin redirects to LC)
DH super-kills Quin (redirects to LC)
Speed watches LC (result = DH and Quin)

Ooooooh godanmit. You are right. I forgot to redirect your watching from LC to Quin.

Fucking Dodo.

10 points to Hufflepuff for finding an actual host mistake.

Sorry, dude.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:42 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:34 pm Oh Speed about the thing about Patronus counting as self-target. I wasn't sure about it, but I had made it count for Dodo purposes (I usually let self abilities be redirected), so I decided I would count it on the watcher for the sake of consistency.
No issue. If I was confused, I could have asked. Coulda asked about the Diricawl, too, since I got a little confused about it. Thought it was more of a busdrive than a deflection.

It was a busdrive.

Oh Speed about the thing about Patronus counting as self-target. I wasn't sure about it, but I had made it count for Dodo purposes (I usually let self abilities be redirected), so I decided I would count it on the watcher for the sake of consistency.

Compiled a list of post-game posts in the first page, so now you can find all post-game info in the same page.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:08 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:07 pm oh galen not angel well whatever
10 points to the house who can find what that is a reference to.

DH plz don't spoil.

poutanko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:50 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:42 am
poutanko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:21 am
juliets wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:07 am And @poutanko again, PLLLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEE go sign up for A World Asunder. LC and BR are excellent hosts and their map games are a scream. We'll all be in the same boat with lots of posters at the beginning so don't let that scare you.
...no 30 players game with activity like this game = RIP me. Easier to read lot of fluff/short posts but not a lot of long posts. As you can see, my English is not that good. Having to translate a lot is pretty tiring.
Bunny please, your English is amazing. I've never seen you say anything that sounded wrong.

This is actually funny because the other Indonesian person I know is a guy who posts regularly at NF Cafe and his English is kind of bad. Like, he knows how to express himself but he doesn't know much of grammar rules. But that doesn't stop him from posting a lot and engaging in all sorts of political discussions. Cool guy.

You are a lot better than him, though.

I think I still confuse people at times
I'll join smaller game

viewtopic.php?f=33&p=497466#p497466

poutanko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:21 am
juliets wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:07 am And @poutanko again, PLLLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEE go sign up for A World Asunder. LC and BR are excellent hosts and their map games are a scream. We'll all be in the same boat with lots of posters at the beginning so don't let that scare you.
...no 30 players game with activity like this game = RIP me. Easier to read lot of fluff/short posts but not a lot of long posts. As you can see, my English is not that good. Having to translate a lot is pretty tiring.

Bunny please, your English is amazing. I've never seen you say anything that sounded wrong.

This is actually funny because the other Indonesian person I know is a guy who posts regularly at NF Cafe and his English is kind of bad. Like, he knows how to express himself but he doesn't know much of grammar rules. But that doesn't stop him from posting a lot and engaging in all sorts of political discussions. Cool guy.

You are a lot better than him, though.

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:05 am DDL have I said congrats on a great game yet? If not, this was awesome. Like dunya, this and U-Pick have been my favorites. This one was just so intricate, so many moving parts, and honestly I never thought about a secret role which just made it more exciting. You did a fabulous job.

And congrats DH, you did a great job. Certainly my pick for Best Indie.

Thanks juliets!

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:32 pm I would agree with you that I wouldn't attribute my win to luck, or to a majority of luck. I got lucky when I needed it, but I was hustling my ass off every other second of the game. I don't win the game if my Long Con case falls through. I don't win the game if I don't connect the dots with Jack, which later led to everyone connecting the dots on you. I don't win the game if I don't use the Niffler/House Cup/Hallows mechanics the way I did.
I got some good lucky breaks this game for sure but I'm not going to lie, it wasn't an easy win.

Oh I don't mean to say you only won this because you are lucky. You really played an awesome game, no contest. I just wanted to talk about your insane luck because it was amazing to behold. But yeah, not getting lynched for 8 days straght was your merit. That's the only thing I really want from an indie, because they can't do much to avoid night actions.

You even had the most posts in the game. [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] maybe that's another exception to that "blow up thread" theory of yours?

I'm trying to figure out how I could boost mafia to prevent them from losing so hard but I can't. Still think it's mostly due to a lot of bad luck. No one could predict DH would hunt them so strongly so early.

I guess I could make polyjuice more efficient (make it instant instead of taking a night), and making the super-kill a Dark Art so they wouldn't spend most of game without it, but those still probably wouldn't have prevented the DH-calypse that hit them.

Now that I think about it, maybe Horxcrux should be a mandatory, automatic thing too, but that's also me babysitting the faction a little. They could have fared better if they made an horxcrux in the first night, though.

Anyway, sorry for the mafia team for getting wrecked early, but I hope you guys had fun at least.

Anyway time for some storytelling.

At the start of the year I was playing with the idea of making a mafia game with no roles, just game mechanics. I've had too many bad experiences with roles that don't work how I intended due to player variance, so I wanted a game where the setup would work the same regardlessly of individual player performance.

I had just played Fire Emblem and it kind of showed me one way the idea could work: show the roles in the thread but give hidden stuff to the mafia, allow role reveal but make it pointless because roles are NAI.

So I am talking about Harry Potter in some chat in March and the idea clicks. A Hogwarts game. The name of the game had a much bigger meaning at the time, because the first version was shaped like an actual school. Players would start with no abilities, but they would be allowed to learn them from ability trees. Each tree representing a subject: Spells, DADA, Potions, Transfiguration, Divination and Creatures. It was also integrated with the house system: houses would have access to classes at different times, and I even wrote a full weekly schedule for it. I also made the drafts for the New Death Eaters, Grindewald and the Hallows at the time, as well as the first house cup.

Well that version didn't work. It sounded fun on paper but letting players pick any ability they wanted led to endgame problems. There were just too many ways town could break the game, by having everyone pick the same spell. Just a measly roleblock would allow them to shut down the mafia if they all used it at the end. I messed around with learning times, and all sorts of restrictions, but couldn't make the idea work. The more I thought about the game the more I realized it was unplayable. So it crashed and burned, and I abandoned it.

I stayed away from it for about a month. In the meantime, I slowly got comfy with the idea that maybe I could just keep some things that worked about that game and make a more linear experience. Actually dictate what abilities players would have, so I could control the setup. But I would make the ability pool public, and give the players an illusion of randomness. They'd never know I had actually set the number of each ability in advance. I would show the houses as a tease, but not tell them if they were related to alignment (they weren't). I eventually settled for two regular and one one-shot ability, which would give the players enough room for decision while still being controllable by me.

In May, I started over by picking up the scraps of the first game. I liked the Potions and Creatures classes too much, so I decided to expand on them, while merging the other classes into a generic "spells" one. I developed the potion system and created an odd/even restriction for creatures which would allow me to make stronger abilities that would be balanced by that restriction. I made one-shots, which the previous system didn't allow. This version actually let me make more abilities than before, and with every player having 3, I was actually forced to use almost every mafia role archetype known in the internet.

This was originally meant to be an NF game, but I was a little burn out of playing there, so I decide to do something different. I had been trying to host a Girl Genius game at TS, and never got voted into the queue. That game is actually less complicated than most that I host, because I assume TS is less used to complicated games. So I decided to invert the logic. Let's go all in. Bring a big, crazy game to TS, get voted in, drown everyone in a huge role madness experience, and use that to present myself as a host to people who don't know me as that yet. Girl Genius can come later, after people know the DDL brand, or maybe even get swapped with Hogwatrs and go to NF.

So I finish Version 2 of the game and submit it here. The rest is history. This is Version 3, after I reworked the House system and reduced the number of mafia from 6 to 5.

Now this is the actual setup, which you guys can count from that excel screenshot, but in a more clear way:

TOWN

spells

roleblock 3
delayer 3
protect 3
jailkeep 3
tracker + spy (non kill) 2
vote silencer 3
cop 1

potions

+1 VP 2
double spell 3
anti-RB/redirect 3

animals

vig 2
watcher 2
self-busdrive 3
commuter (with kill restriction) 3

1-shot

patronum - 2
sacrifical - 2
petrificus totalus - 2
obliviate - 2
amortentia - 2
veritaserum – 2
elixir of life - 1
hippogriff - 2
phoenix – 1
thunderbird – 2

MAFIA

Super-kill
Divination
Protect
Roleblock
Felix
Invigoration
Transfig
Arresto
Wit-Sharpening
Bus

Patronum
Petrificus
Obliviate
Elixir
Hippogriff

INDIE

felix
super-kill
Amortentia

As you can see, no, it wasn't evenly distributed. There was only 1 cop. Other information roles also had restrictions so I could allow the game to have more than one. Tracker didn't see Dark Arts, watcher was even/odd only, lie detector was one-shot. Phoenix was OP, so there was only one. Other spells eppared 2 or 3 times depending on the OP potential. For one-shots, most of them had to appear twice, with Phoenix and Elixir only once, though I gave another elixir to mafia since it's a good scum ability. Amortentia was originally going to mafia, but I thought it fit the indie better.

After this list is done, then came the actual randomizing part, so I don't have to distribute 72 abilities manually. I gave 3 at random to every player. Then reviwed the result and swapped around some broken or repetitive combinations. Finally, I added the actual player names, again at random (so nobody was given an ability on purpose, if you want to know).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:38 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:38 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:33 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:03 am At what point did you realise I was a civ for sure?
When the game ended.
Lol surely you must have at least realised when Poutanko died?
No. I still thought six mafia members was reasonably possible, and you had pushed the counterwagon.

It was almost the case until 1 month before the game started.

Then I played a game where people didn't want to believe a 24 game had more than 4 mafia and thought "man those syndicateers are really not used to big mafias. It might be balanced with 6 people but if it isn't they are going to complain after the game ends".

Also I need to give credit to Superman from Naruto Forums for reviewing my setup and help me decide on that issue, and a few others. Gotta put his name in the first post too.

poutanko wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:28 am
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:03 am Aww, I just realized I could have used the 3p make a lot of posts tell...derp...missed opportunity.
There will be another opportunity (hopefully not me as the 3p, I like the popcorn too much)

LunaleeYou played well for 1st time cop. Checking those not high on sus list is okay. Less likely for them (if they're scum) to use an "active" to fool your result if they think they're not under a threat of getting copped. It's understandable too why people sussed you for not clearing up those high on sus list as it could be seen as an attempt to keep the confusion high. Just do what you think is the best decision and ignore the rest. Tell them to take it or leave it No one will always be right. Sometimes what you did is the right one, sometimes it's the other one who's right. If you think you're right, just do it.

I always play like that when I'm a cop. I don't go for the obvious suspects. Let the lynches sort them out. I go for people who I'm scared about the possibility of being deepwolves.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:51 am I still couldn't believe all those cop checks that weren't questioned in "closed setup mafia game". I don't care what the check says; the game should not be mechanically solvable.

And there shouldn't be a way to be immune to death. (I guess Harry Potter lore would argue with me, but still, it doesn't feel right in a mafia game...imo.)

You mean horcrux? That's the only way someone could be 100% immune to death iirc.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:28 am Not sure, if I should congratulate you, DH, sure I put you as a light town at some point, but that was to appease the others, I was still hella suspicious of you and that's also why I jailkept you n1.

Owner was on fire in my discord. She called poutanko and also DH. She was using image anaysis on DH and everything.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:14 am
That is the prerogative of the host. I think a nice compromise that I have seen in the past is to include *secret role* in the public role list -- it informs players that something else is afoot without any details about what that means. There's no obligation for DDL to adopt that method though and I don't fault him. Sometimes a theme demands total secrecy to respect a host's vision.

Maybe. I won't say the game needed the indie to be top secret, but it would be cooler this way. Some things I do just for the shock value. Shock value is fun.

I kind of assumed it would all boil down to general scrutiny. If DH avoids it for 90% of the game he should win, if he doesn't, being a SK in a game where claiming is allowed could put him in some very tricky situations.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:03 am This was a fun and ambitious game, and I am grateful to have taken part @Dragon D. Luffy. It was an interesting combination of structural norms in the vein of a semi-open setup, but with plenty of closed setup elements.

Thanks!

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:34 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:34 pm I mean I think punishing low activity players is good, it's more a way to incentivize players to be active to get the rewards. But yeah I do think the "use all 3 abilities" was a factor as well since Luna had a good ability she could use every night.
Yeah but we were punished and rewarded in arbitrary groups.

Consider that mafia has motivation to lose the house cup to prevent certain players from getting boosts or that nobody can control the activity of other players.

Cute idea and very thematic, just doesn’t work as a motivating factor imo.

That's a classic case of the flavor dictating the gameplay.

I decided after the game went to the queue that the previous version of the house cup has to be remade, so I had like two months to do it. So it ended up a little rushed.

But I really wanted a House Cup. I mean, it's Hogwarts man. It needs houses and a house competition.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:19 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:09 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:08 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:56 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:55 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:18 pm I was telling the truth when I said I figured out Jack was bad because he pretended not to know what polyjuice was.
And I was telling the truth when I said you were the serial killer.

Well played. That was a fantastic SKer role and you did a damn good job of playing it.
Hilarious to me that because you got outed as a mafia nobody gave two shits about you putting me on blast.

Worthy foe.
Hardly on blast. I was pretty kid gloves about it.

1) You clearly didn’t care about who got lynched several times.
2) Nova was modblocked on N1 and Timmer was roleblocked. This means the only way a townie could have killed him is if there were two odd night vigilantes. There was clearly an even night vigilante. 3 town vigilantes on top of all the protection and investigation is op....unless there’s a sker.
3) Way too many kills with Timmer holstering and so much protection....unless there’s a sker
4) Outed a cop role and couldn’t give an actual reason why that role was bad. Plus lying about what we talked about in btsc.
5) Overstating credit for dead mafia members
6) Quin’s killer was clearly not the mafia kill but also clearly an evil character.

I couldn’t argue the third point without confirming Timmer (my mistake) and I choose not to hammer on the other points because at the end of the day, I was only about 75% sure and it wasn’t worth making Pout more lynchable to get rid of you in my (flawed) calculation. We knew you had the Elder wand and if we could get it, that meant that in addition to my transfiguration, I could give the mafia a 3 vote swing. If you had died and Pout had lived, we would almost surely have won.

But we didn’t and you did. You made the right bets and the right actions while we made the wrong ones. Hats off for a well deserved win.
I told DDL a few times that the civs couldn't see the forest through the trees this game. Like when they lynched you before me.
I should have argued that I was outed and screwed and what was the harm in lynching you first but honestly, I don’t think it would have worked.

I have made the argument as mafia “I am town but even if I an mafia, the correct action is X” several times. The town always chooses Y and the opposing scum team always wins.

Buuuuut I’m pretty sure that would have just resulted in a town win so no regrets on that front.

In your defense I've been on that kind of situation before and it's extremely hard to get out of it. Town doesn't let go of a confirmed baddie for an unconfirmed one.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:11 pm
poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:10 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:03 pm I really needed to find Jack's partner when we did, otherwise I'dve lost probably.
Only if Petrificus Totalus work on you.
It wouldn'tve but I was moreso worried you guys would tunnel-kill me every night until it stuck.

It would. Petriricus Totalus prevents you from drinking potions.

You were in for a stone cold surprise (kek) if you tried to kill poutanko one night later.

poutanko wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:58 pm Also thanks to DH and MacD I was saved from 2 CFDs

INH stopped showing up on maf chat after he's dead too so...

Actually when he got revived I thought DH was fucked because at the very least, he would go to the chat and tell you guys he knew DH had the stone. Also DH said some pretty incriminating stuff.

But INH spent the entire day posting voldemort gifs and went back to the grave with that information.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:36 pm Dragon D. Luffy What would have happened if a civ or a member of the mafia had gotten all 3 hallows?

Also, mid-late to late game, everyone forgot about the Hallows in the thread which was pretty chill for me as far as not having to explain shit.

Nothing. Having all hallows doesn't do anything unless you are the kind of edgelord character who believes they do. Hence the master of death thing being based on "confidence".

Also I was facepalming hard on the later. He last mention of the word "hallow" in the thread was before Quin's death. Town played well in some senses, but you guys kind of botchered on game speculation. You didn't care who killed Quin, you didn't care about hallows, you didn't wonder who had killed poutanko. That cryptic text in the setup about hallows wasn't just for show, you know.

Also I found it weird how nobody ever asked me about a 3P. In Fire Emblem, the game this is inspired on, people asked on like Day 0, so we knew there was no indie. If you had asked me here, I wouldn't have said "yes", but I'd be forced to give an evasive answer that would have given it away. And I was expecting that to happen. I wasn't joking when I said I don't lie: the entire setup is written to allow room for an indie. The use of "guilty" instead of "mafia", the civilian wincon saying "eliminate all threats to Hogwarts" (implying there could be more than one threat), even Quin's death implies he was killed for the cloak.

Soneji wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:36 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:36 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:28 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 pm Ok so I believe I have dumped all information you guys might want to know. I'm tired so I'll wait until tomorrow to respond to questions and do game comentary.

Feel free to make praises and criticizes to the game, I don't think there is a perfectly balanced role madness game, but I tried. I will reply to everything tomorrow.
you did an amazing job!!! just looking at the list of night actions I'm stressed out lol, it's really an incredible feat that you handled this game by yourself and sorted everything out.
I've been through worse. Favorites 4, one of my first games, had 58 players, bigger roles, 24 hour phases and some very poor communication between me and the other host ( @Soneji ). After that mayhem, everything feels like a cakewalk. It's just a matter of having a template and being organized.
Will I ever escape the shame of this?

It's not a shame brah, that game was super fun.

For me it's more like the initial action scene of a movie where the hero tries to invade the villain's lair but gets his ass kicked. So he has to start over and train so he has a chance of going there again some day.

Actually I'm probably being a little too hard on myself, lol.

It's just that I have been bottling this game commentary for weeks now so I need to let it out.

Ok I should be going to bed but can't help myself.

I don't think the Grindelwald role is OP. Serial killers are notoriously underpowered as fuck. Thing is, I don't like that fact. I believe every player should have equal chance of winning, and no player should enter the game as an underdog. But for that to happen, the SK needs some real protection against night fuckery. He needs some bulletproof, some cop protection, some way to bypass enemy bulletproof. When I make an SK, I add all of those, them add a little twist. The Hallows thing was the twist.

What happened in this game is that DH was really, really, really, really LUCKY. Like, he should be praised for playing the game well, but he still might have lost a few times in a normal game. In this game, all the planets aligned to him.

He kills nova at random N1 and gets the Wand.

Day 2 Soneji, who has the Stone, is lynched. DH decides to kill the person who voted last (juliets) and gets it.

Day 2 he uses Niffler on Ravenclaw and finds the Cloak. Night 2 he uses Accio to nail it down. He has like 5 people to pick from. He uses it on Quin and finds the Cloak for real.

By Day 3, he has two hallows and knows where the last one is. I guess then his luck ran out because he took 3 nights to take Quin down.

He also got investigated twice, Night 1 (by the mafia) and Night 4 (by Luna). Guess which two nights he picked to use Polyjuice? Yeah.

Using an RPG metaphor, DH got a 20 on a d20, then rolled a d100 to see the effect, and got one that says he gets a full barrel of Felix Felicis. In real life.

There are maybe a few little things I could change to improve the setup, but I don't think nerfing the SK would be one of them.

I'll discuss this more tomorrow.

Night.

Also the failed Day 3 lynch, as you can see, was the punishment I had to give timmer and Glorf for turning the game into a soap opera.

The mafia was demanding something, dunya was working overtime, and I didn't want to modkill them for a rule that didn't actually exist. So I figured out I could at least stop the lynch that had been caused by that madness.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:39 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:38 pm I want to know what the deal was with the Quin-speed actions. I assume speed was telling the truth, was Quin? Maybe I missed the answer to that somewhere.
DDL posted all the night actions in a big spoilered post. I totally forgot to look at those when I skimmed it but I assume something messed them up lol

LC tried to save himself by using a Dodo on someone.

But the person he picked (Quin) happened to be the guy DH was trying to kill for a hallow.

(

)

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:28 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:23 pm Ok so I believe I have dumped all information you guys might want to know. I'm tired so I'll wait until tomorrow to respond to questions and do game comentary.

Feel free to make praises and criticizes to the game, I don't think there is a perfectly balanced role madness game, but I tried. I will reply to everything tomorrow.
you did an amazing job!!! just looking at the list of night actions I'm stressed out lol, it's really an incredible feat that you handled this game by yourself and sorted everything out.

I've been through worse. Favorites 4, one of my first games, had 58 players, bigger roles, 24 hour phases and some very poor communication between me and the other host ( [mention]Soneji[/mention] ). After that mayhem, everything feels like a cakewalk. It's just a matter of having a template and being organized.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:25 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:24 pm Oh yeah I also need to explain why the House Cup was shitty but that's a whole big post about it. Later.
I'm guessing it had something to do with me Making and Drinking a potion every night for like 7 nights.

Yes your potions helped but weren't the only reason.

The gist of it is that the point system punished heavily any house who had low activity players, and Gryffindor just didn't have any. Maybe INH but he died early.

Slytherin was gimped at first but after they got replacements they started functioning well.

And for some reason all the players who live in the East (Mac/Quin/Pou) had trouble meeting night post and action requirements, I suspect it had something to do with night start/ends. And they were all in Huffle/Raven.

Also Luna being the cop worked against Raven, because she had an incentive never to pursue the triple ability reward. Also that triple ability reward decided most House Cups. It was just worth too many points.

If I ran this again I'd revamp a lot of things to increase variation. Probably remove the potion award and nerf the triple ability one. And maybe not completely compensate factions who have dead members, so they they are not awarded for losing people.

Also Portrait was a little too OP for my tastes, could use a nerf on that.

Oh yeah I also need to explain why the House Cup was shitty but that's a whole big post about it. Later.

Ok so I believe I have dumped all information you guys might want to know. I'm tired so I'll wait until tomorrow to respond to questions and do game comentary.

Feel free to make praises and criticizes to the game, I don't think there is a perfectly balanced role madness game, but I tried. I will reply to everything tomorrow.

Oh you want to see this too:

FInally, the one everybody has been waiting for...

List of Actions:

Spoiler: show

Now you get to respond all your "what happened in Night X" questions and maybe also try to spot host mistakes if you can, though I believe I didn't make any meaningful ones.

Dark Arts (used by the NDE)

All Dark Arts abilities are available to all members of the New Death Eaters, but each ability may only be used once per night by the whole faction.

If there is only one member left in the faction, they may choose to use two Dark Arts abilities at once, instead of one ability of each type.

Regular

[Imperio]: This spell will take control of a student’s actions. Any abilities they use will be redirected to a target of the user’s choice. The student being controlled cannot be forced to self-target. This ability can only be used once in the game on each player.

[Crucio]: This spell will torture a student, roleblocking them for a night and forcing them to reveal what spells they know.

[Avada Kedavra]: This spell will kill a student.

[Sectumsempra]: This spell will gravely injure a student. When it first hits, it will give the target a stack of Bleeding. After the first stack, any other negative abilities that hit them will give a new stack. A student who gets three stacks of Bleeding will die.

Abilities used by the New Death Eaters other than [Sectumsempra], and abilities controlled by [Imperio], cannot give stacks of Bleeding.

[Polyjuice Potion]: The student who drinks this potion will fool [Divination] or [Veritaserum] users into thinking they are innocent for one night.

1-shot

[Horcrux]: This spell will bind a piece of the soul of a player who is using [Avada Kedavra] successfully to the soul of the user, turning the user into a horcrux. As long as the horcrux is alive, the player who made the kill is immune to all kills and cannot be lynched.

Whenever they survive a lynch because of this ability, it will be revealed in the thread, and they will be roleblocked for two cycles.

Becoming a horcrux is such an evil act, the student who does it will become incapable to be protected by other abilities.

[Mosmordre]: This spell will conjure the Dark Mark near a student, fooling users of any [Divination] or [Veritaserum] that target them into thinking they are guilty. The effect of this spell lasts for the rest of the game.

[Dementor]: This creature can suck the happiness of every person in a location. When released in a Hogwarts house, it will roleblock every player from that house for a night.

With Transfiguration tomorrow would have been a tie, assuming all three voted for DH. Which would force me to end the game with a coinflip. Glad it didn't come to that.

Also this is why this night happened. I needed to know if juliets would stop him or not.

As it stands, she tried, but DH also targeted her with Amortentia in the same night.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:58 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:57 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:47 pm maybe it would have just resulted in no death and dragged the game out longer though idk

should've listened to mac
I will regret not listening to Mac for as long as I play mafia.
hahaha

seriously though I probably should've actually diricawled dh and not chickened out about it, once DDL finishes I will need an answer immediately as to whether it would have changed things in the end and then I'll wallow in a pit of self-loathing

He has infinite Felix Felicis so all your redirection is pointless.

The only thing that worked against him at this point was Transfiguration and WSP but he got you and juliets before you could do it.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:07 pm oh galen not angel well whatever

10 points to the house who can find what that is a reference to.

DH plz don't spoil.

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