The Syndicate

Oh was a bit ugly but it was pretty fun imo.

Thanks for having those games, guys. You guys really make my life more interesting especially when it is boring or lonely. It's a pleasure to come here and play games like this one, even if I get grumpy sometimes.

Lmao so the random animal didn't even exist?

I think I also kept speculating a lot about Dark Worshipper, then later kind of forgot about him.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:44 pm I felt like the remnant played very well in this game. Timmer and Bob were so hard to read as Mafia in the end I had my own POE and that's the only reason I figured them out. DDL got stitched up by info. TH killed n1.

Thanks, man. You guys did pretty well too. I thought you were very civ-like at the start.

Sorry guys I'm insisting on this argument because I'm stubborn like that but I will stop before I offend anyone. I apologize if I already did.

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:21 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:49 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:12 am

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:14 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:14 am I think "Mac played a good game and deserved a win" and "the balance of this setup was off" can both be true statements.

true but i think the latter has its own place and it's not 5 minutes after the game ended

That's literally the best time to discuss a game's balance.

Because that's the first thing the winner wants to read after a month of fighting for a win.

Yeah I double triple agree with this and it's not because I'm a winner (I mean I got killed too early to really contribute to the win). If it were me and I had a problem with the balance of a game and my objective was to give feedback to the host so they could improve in their next game I would give them the feedback privately. Why call out the host and winners publicly, what is the objective there?

We all learn from each others' games. Posting feedback and discussing it helps with that. It's not about complaining about the results, it's about making the best use of whatever knowledge we gained here.

The point here isn't "make Mac feel like a loser". He played amazingly and deserved to win. It's "unlynchable baddies are a bad idea, don't use it".

What were the 2 roles that were not in the game?

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:05 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:20 am LC I hope you don't see this as an attack to you. I really enjoyed playing this game and appreciate your effort in making and hosting it.

But I'm not just gonna sit down and say everything was perfect just to be political. If I have (constructive) criticism to make I will make them.

No, I don't feel attacked, I think we just have different ideas about what is balanced. For me balance is achieved when every faction has a decent chance at Victory, as opposed to something like Doctor Who Mafia, where a viral recruiter had to be killed immediately, or the game was 100% going to be theirs.

Well I also think the same, I just don't think the winning chances were that even in this game.

But this is a hard argument to prove since there are so many variables, and I think I already made the main points.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:15 pm I'm very leery of changing win conditions, and I agree that -5 votes might be a little much (Though Mac only ever needed -2 to win the game in the end, victory well deserved regardless).

I also dislike silencing, and only ended up using the role for its vote utility after Mac took over the targeting for me. You guys got 4 days of no silence. Yer welcome.

I spent half the game chasing unicorns, who then (I think) died in the cataclysm. Then I got outted, died, rezzed, died, had surgery, and won the game.

Um. GG guys.

Wait those unicorns actually did something?

They were in C8 btw. And yes, they died.

LC I hope you don't see this as an attack to you. I really enjoyed playing this game and appreciate your effort in making and hosting it.

But I'm not just gonna sit down and say everything was perfect just to be political. If I have (constructive) criticism to make I will make them.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:50 am
When the balance is off, the Civs don't come within one wrong vig-kill of winning the game.

On the contrary. If vigs are required for the civs to win, it clearly means something is wrong.

Town's main tool is the lynch. If the lynch doesn't work, then town is underpowered.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:14 am

colonialbob wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:14 am I think "Mac played a good game and deserved a win" and "the balance of this setup was off" can both be true statements.

true but i think the latter has its own place and it's not 5 minutes after the game ended

That's literally the best time to discuss a game's balance.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:32 am When I got my role card it honestly never occurred to me that the role was OP. Nobody pointed at it in the role list as OP before or during the game either and all the roles were revealed. I never felt like this impervious super role at any stage even up until the final flip.

To be fair I barely knew how map targetting mechanics worked until I had a one or two nights of playing with them under my belt.

And I remember some talk both in the thread and btsc speculating who the kraken was. But we are not psychics, we can't just guess who they are and wipe them out. Assuming the kraken even was in the game. I recall two roles were not, right?

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:35 am i mean mac literally didn't have a win condition for half the game if you're gonna talk about how easy it was for his role to win just remember he literally almost didn't

Which doesn't matter much because he was guaranteed to get his wincon back after Epi died, and his role made it extremely easy for him to outlive Epi.

I think it's more like if Mac's role didn't exist, civs would have a 90% chance of winning, due to SVS's role being immortal. But since Mac's role countered SVS, his faction had 90% chance of winning instead.

Those two roles defined the game just be existing.

Mac I don't think anyone is arguing you couldn't have lost, it's just that it was much difficult for that to happen to you than to anyone else.

It would have required some very unlucky event like you being outed as a role too and not just player, and then get voted because you are the kraken. Or maybe you not learning the other faction's names and not being able to dump us in the thread, which would give us more leeway to avoid lynches.

Of course your effort counted, particularly the part where you dumped our roles. But the stars were on your side. In a normally balanced game no one gets to dump anyone's entire teams, and people die when there is a crowd wanting to lynch/kill them.

Mafia is a game of information hunting. Information should be hard to obtain, and kills should be easy. This was a game where information was easy, and kills were hard, which made it feel less like mafia overall.

I think our faction is the one who got the short end of the stick balance-wise, since we had a bunch of kill protections but no lynch protection. And what makes a mafia OP is lynch protection (as opposed to kill protection for civs).

That said I'm not complaining. I've played games less balanced than this one, and it was a pretty fun game. Could have been done better, but it's not like here are a bunch of map games around to compare.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:34 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:32 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:30 am Epi don't poo on our win.

I'm not. I already said this. I'm criticizing the setup.

You're basically saying that I shouldn't have even bothered to make any real effort and still would have won, which ... I hope isn't true.

I'm not sure if you would have won because SVS's role was about as OP as yours.

A civ who can't be killed is invincible just like a mafia who can't be lynched.

Then again in the end your role was the one who proved to be more invincible than hers, so there is that.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:57 am ive never played d&d but if that's the kind of thing that can happen id be all over it

I've never see anyone's limbs being cut but teammates hitting each other every 5 mins is a common occurence in D&D.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:56 pm Speedchuck is unfortunately very unwell and is going back to the hospital today so please keep him in your thoughts and direct positive energy his way.

Hope you get better soon, speedchuck!

Hey folks I wonder what happens if we lynch Sig again.

He's appearing in both the poll and the list of living players.

I still don't trust Sig's result.

[VOTE: Sig] aubergine

According to the OP poisoning doesn't kill you directly it just makes you get votes.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:21 pm @Dragon D. Luffy

That's the face I made at the start of Day 5.

I left this piece of info. Jack is a liar, and depending on how the thread goes and what other info appears, I think there is a good chance he might turn out as darkness. If not, at least some other non town role.

I fear I can't say anything else without fearing a modkill.

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:05 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:06 am My point is I wouldn't be surprised if Jack was darkness.

I don't have ACTUAL INFO that points in that direction but I have my reasons.

Oh?

I don't think I'm allowed to go into actual details tbh. I already broke the rules once.

But I think the main thing is that Jack is flat out lieing about having been poisoned. That I'm sure of. Now why he lied about that is anyone's guess.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:49 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:45 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:38 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:25 am Nah no indie claim here. I'm a civ.

You’ve got two confirmed civs saying otherwise.

You are confirmed civ since when

Since sig confirmed me.

I mean this is circular logic. Either you believe all of Sig's results can be trusted or not. I'm not gonna waste my time here yelling "No they can't" for 72 hours.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:38 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:25 am Nah no indie claim here. I'm a civ.

You’ve got two confirmed civs saying otherwise.

You are confirmed civ since when

Nah no indie claim here. I'm a civ.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:48 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:43 am Mac I'm on square next to you if you go left-right-left-right-forward-right-left you will find the Ocarina of Time.

Gee thanks now I have to play Ocarina of Time again.

You're welcome.

Ok caught up and I feel like I wasted my time since some dude lie detected me and now everyone is after my head.

I guess I can do nothing but assume Sig was recruited into the mafia and is a big fat liar.

Mac I'm on square next to you if you go left-right-left-right-forward-right-left you will find the Ocarina of Time.

LoRab wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:05 am

I lol'd

Enrique wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:50 pm "ddl is bad because hes brasilion" - epicnoses, expert player

Ok I'm fine with being smeared if I keep getting posts like this

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:41 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:40 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:37 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:36 pm Start changing your votes to speedchuck and see what happens. Go on. Give it a shot.

What’s your read on DDL?

Bad, but I'm prejudiced against him as I am with certain people.

I can relate.

Linki: I don't get how saying RIP to Kylemii means he killed him?

I feel like I am being smeared her.

My point is I wouldn't be surprised if Jack was darkness.

I don't have ACTUAL INFO that points in that direction but I have my reasons.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:58 pm This is the only headass CFD I’ll ever endorse.

I feel honored

sabie12 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:16 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:27 pm Btw since I think speedchuck commented on it so I'll reply. What I said above doesn't mean I always think it's the person's fault for being lynched, in all situations. I just think that in a game, you are supposed to use the tools you have available to you. If you were given a choice to and said no, and if you do that due to an external reason like spite, then yeah, sorry, I don't think it's anyone else's blame for it.

I get what you're saying here. I get the feeling sometimes people just give up. Like they feel like they cant do anything about it anymore.

What are your thoughts on jack then? Do you think hes being helpful or not?

I'm 7 pages behind but I'll reply. I'm iffy on Jack. I think he has released a lot of actual information and I'm not sure if the Sig info was completely fabricated on his side. Yet he is giving me some 3P vibes. Like he is playing all sides.

sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:07 pm

Enrique wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:05 pm you fucking know what i've been the one saying it has to be sig today but i actually wouldn't mind if the wagon turned to ddl

I mean lets compare.



Very evil looking, smokes, has a weird hat, and from one piece.

VS



A super cute kitty, with an amazing hat, and from Kentucky a state that's not as bad as Mississippi or One piece.

To be fair if I ever made a role from the guy in my avatar he'd probably be 3P.

Enrique wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:29 pm Dragon D. Luffy oh my god dude you're fucking lucky sig committed suicide or i woulda beat your ass!!!

Wow where did this come from

Also I could swear you were the psionic ninja.

I just meant to point a difference between whatever you or Jack saw last night, with whatever anyone saw in previous nights, just so that people don't mix up night info to accuse me wrongly.

Sorry guys I am not supposed to say who I had BTSC with. I had thought it was only related to the content.

Sorry [mention]Long Con[/mention]

Oh fuck I think I broke a rule.

sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:26 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:23 pm

sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:21 pm I've got a Christmas Party to attend so imma be out for a bit, but I was reading over DDL he has to go. Ik for a fact i'm not mafia he was within the area that Jack saw, plus ik I was targeted to be killed and he was within the same area based off what we know. DDL is mafia, read over his posts and it becomes clear.

You need to get your facts again. I'm not in Jack's PoE. I'm only in that Sloonei 5.

You were within his map info or was it Sabs? Someones the night that DH I believe was targeted correct?

Which is how it was narrowed to you, myself, and timmer.

Also we can see DDL setting up that my claim, if I decide to do so, would be meaningless since who knows the alignments a very scummy move imo.

As a matter of fact, I was in BTSC with Jack last night. But the reveals he has made so far aren't related to last night, they were related to previous nights. Specifically who targeted DH early and who poisoned Jack.

sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:26 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:23 pm

sig wrote: ↑Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:21 pm I've got a Christmas Party to attend so imma be out for a bit, but I was reading over DDL he has to go. Ik for a fact i'm not mafia he was within the area that Jack saw, plus ik I was targeted to be killed and he was within the same area based off what we know. DDL is mafia, read over his posts and it becomes clear.

You need to get your facts again. I'm not in Jack's PoE. I'm only in that Sloonei 5.

You were within his map info or was it Sabs? Someones the night that DH I believe was targeted correct?

Which is how it was narrowed to you, myself, and timmer.

Also we can see DDL setting up that my claim, if I decide to do so, would be meaningless since who knows the alignments a very scummy move imo.

If you think claiming will save you, then do it and save yourself.

If you think it won't then maybe don't bother.

I'm trying to solve the game. You screaming NO YOU and painting me as the villain will not accomplish anything in this day phase.