The Syndicate

Now seriously, one thing I do is make sure I'm paranoid of you every time I see you in a game. Not enough to lynch you, but I keep trying to feel your gameplay and look for signs of your civiness. The idea is that since we let you be the town leader every time, I gotta make sure that doesn't get used against us.

I usually see those signs, but it also means I also notice whenever something is off.

The real challenge is distinguishing when the "off" is alignment related to when it's not (i. e. Fire Emblem).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 1:53 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 12:05 pm D6: Jay is not being lynched for some reason.
If there's anything I do well it's avoid lynches.

Tree Mafia (civilian)
Mountain Mafia (mafia)
Fire Emblem (civilian)

I believe that's it for my 46 games on The Syndicate.

Looks like there is a direct correlation between the difficulty in lynching you and the amount of DDL in the game.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 12:48 am And feelsbadman, I'm always like the last mislynch before town loses the game.

I think I have the same problem as you do.

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:28 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:06 pm On another news, after 5 years I still have zero idea of how to read @Soneji

And when I complained to him on Discord, he told me my case was good for lynching WPK but not for lynching Soneji (WPK is how he's called in NF)

Because apparently he plays different here.

Godanmit.
I've seen Soneji play a few times and he's a pretty tough read because he minimizes inconsistencies in his meta with low volume but high effort wall posts.

Aside from scrutinizing his reasoning I think a good approach for him or the "analysis" type players is to try and get into their mindset and ask if what he picked out from the thread makes sense. For example, are they not scrutinizing a certain player when they should, or are they focusing on the most relevant situations of the thread? Are they being stiff and non-topical? Do you strongly vibe with their points? etc

Noted.

If I'm a vig I think I shoot inactives, people I want to policy lynch, the guy who almost got lynched yesterday, stuff like that.

What I don't do is try to gamesolve with a vig role. That's why I might not have shot Jay if I was it.

Vigilante is that role you add because it makes large games end faster but it doesn't actually help its faction as much.

On another news, after 5 years I still have zero idea of how to read [mention]Soneji[/mention]

And when I complained to him on Discord, he told me my case was good for lynching WPK but not for lynching Soneji (WPK is how he's called in NF)

Because apparently he plays different here.

Godanmit.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:00 pm Just one thing I want to argue though. Town can adapt as well, or just become better than they did last DP. If mafia is going to adapt to make sure that they will change their play and remove the tells that were pointed out at first, then a townie can notice such awareness by the player and the desire to be a core town. I don't believe a townie should care(for the most part) about their scum tells and scumminess as long as they're still scum hunting and trying to game solve.

Oh of course, all of that can happen. That's why this game is so hard, for both factions.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:50 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:38 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 pm Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.
That's definitely not the mistake you made.

The mistake you made was being overconfident on your baddie reads.
Lol, can't help it. Just what happens when I have a super strong scum read on someone and I haven't been convinced otherwise.

No one will provide a solid argument for why you are wrong because no one is sure of it either.

They'll just say "huh" and leave you to focus on other things.

Until one of them decides to listen to you and a baddie joins the wagon and BOOM, mislynch.

If you can't second guess your own reads, no one can save you either.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:46 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 pm Omg I was so happy about reading Jay and nutella correctly I didn't notice Mac was bad too.

Damn.

I need to scrap my Mac definitions. They suck.
When you think you know the answers I change the questions.

I'm locked in an "agressive Mac = civ" tell which has worked before but it's clearly not an actual pattern.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 pm Omg I was so happy about reading Jay and nutella correctly I didn't notice Mac was bad too.

Damn.

I need to scrap my Mac definitions. They suck.

But I've obtained nutella definitions. This is huge. Nutella is normally hard to read. I now know how nutella feels like when she's part of a towncore, because it wasn't present here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:41 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:32 pm I just need to learn how to convince other people now.
While we're talking about what makes a good civilian, this right here is the most undervalued aspect of strong civilian play in my experience. Producing accurate reads is only half the battle. Other people need to be on board with those reads too.

Unless you're a vigilante. But vigilantes are dumb.
Have good instincts.
Be compelling in your cases.
Know when you drop a bad case and follow someone else.

I personally have always had number one but I only developed number two and three very recently.

I developed 3 first and I think recently I've been developing 1.

Only 2 left I guess.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.
It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.
The only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.

There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.

Ok learn this one thing.

You suck at scumhunting.

I suck at scumhunting.

Everyone sucks at scumhunting.

This thing is not exact science. If it was no one would play mafia because it would be boring. All tells stop working the moment someone points them out, because mafia can adapt. WIFOM is everywhere. All methods are fallible.

The best town players don't make a 100% win chance, they just barely push it above 50%.

That doesn't mean you can never trust your instincts, but if winning as a team is hard, winning alone is nearly impossible. You will get some reads wrong every game, and you need other townies to help you find the right direction. Damn, people are praising me now and I voted for a townie last night.

So you need to learn to doubt yourself. Your instincts could be right, but they could be wrong. Learn to be aware of that at all times. Listen to other people. They may be onto something you're not. That doesn't mean you need to lose your initiative, but you need to learn to control it. Don't be a sheep, but don't be a blind wolf either.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:42 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm That was when I realized being good at NF means shit and I had to work harder to improve.
i dunno, i'm noticing some hardcore mafia players on NF lately.

It's not completely terrible but it's a wide range between solid ones and craptastic ones. And I've won games by just lynching the craptastic ones in succession.

Omg I was so happy about reading Jay and nutella correctly I didn't notice Mac was bad too.

Damn.

I need to scrap my Mac definitions. They suck.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:37 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:16 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.
Believe it or not, what you saw in this game was about 60-70% of what you'd see from me in my civilian body. I feel that I have one of the most difficult civilian metas to match on the entire Internet, and for that reason I often don't even try -- I do enough to stay alive.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.
This is where meta reading is handy. To an unfamiliar observer, he looks like the town leader. To folks who've played with him before, his play was shortsighted and erratic. He ignored things he wouldn't ordinarily ignore and focused on things he would not normally care about.
Pretty interesting. I'm definitely gonna play more games on this site.

You should. In my first year here I lost 7 consecutive games as town.

That was when I realized being good at NF means shit and I had to work harder to improve.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 pm Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

That's definitely not the mistake you made.

The mistake you made was being overconfident on your baddie reads.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

This is nothing, you should read Firefly Mafia some time.

Good job on winning this, guys. This wasn't just town missplays, you did a pretty strong effort in looking town.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:55 pm I have a feeling many of the corpses and neutral observers knew that I was bad. I definitely played this one to my audience -- a game filled with newcomers. To people who don't know me, Diet Supertown Jimmy is still a considerable effort.

People need to learn there is a difference between physical and emotional effort.

ISOs and all the other busywork you did take a lot of physical effort. That's why I said I commended you for it regardlessly of your alignment. But what separates the civs from the baddies is the emotional effort. Actually lying and convincing people you are hunting with a straight face. I didn't feel like you were actually connected with the game like I did in the 10 times I played with civ you.

Welp, 2 out of 3 games I was right about lynching Jay. Not perfect but I guess I'm onto something.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:50 pm DDL you were amazing.

I don't know what it happened but it happened. I finally learned to scumhunt.

I just need to learn how to convince other people now.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:56 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:42 pm nutella's silence is deafening
I'm having a nice day in the sunshine. I think speed is the better choice of course, if you are hoping I will persuade owner I don't know what else to say in this situation. I won't fault anyone for voting rdw at this stage as he has made no effort to prevent it himself.

I'd expect you to be doubting yourself right now.

Especially since there is a lynch going between 2 people you suspect.

nutella's silence is deafening

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:37 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:30 pm Jay: "Do I bus him now? But both me and nutella have defended him. That might lose us the game. Owner and Wilgy are around, they could still flip this for us. And maybe RDW will show up. If we win this lynch there's no way this town can win that 4v3".
I'm considering the scenario in front of me and trying to make the best decision I can. I don't give a shit about any of this.

I apologize, this was just a stab, not an argument.

[mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention] the fate of mankind rests on your shoulders.

No pressure.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:21 pm Try not to let tinfoil in.

Jay: "Do I bus him now? But both me and nutella have defended him. That might lose us the game. Owner and Wilgy are around, they could still flip this for us. And maybe RDW will show up. If we win this lynch there's no way this town can win that 4v3".

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:22 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:21 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:17 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:17 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:14 pm Did we expect anyone to call RDW a civilian before we did a GTH exercise?
I can't say that I thought about that specific fact. Did you?
No. I don't recall anyone supporting him all day though.
Jay, meet Distancing. Distancing, here is Jay. I hope you get along well.
Yes, you suspect me. Thanks for the reminder.

No, what I mean here is that whoever RDW's teammates are, they are distancing from him.

So no, the fact no one is defending him at all is not a good thing.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:17 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:17 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:14 pm Did we expect anyone to call RDW a civilian before we did a GTH exercise?
I can't say that I thought about that specific fact. Did you?
No. I don't recall anyone supporting him all day though.

Jay, meet Distancing. Distancing, here is Jay. I hope you get along well.

I didn't know whether the rest of you were going to scumread him or not, though.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:14 pm Did we expect anyone to call RDW a civilian before we did a GTH exercise?

I had all my answers decided in advance but it's not my fault I'm just paying more attention to this game than usual.

Jay is doubting GTH

I'm telling you guys, he's bad

I don't have such a detailed memory but I remember at least one instance where a GTH completely turned the game around for the civs.

nutella on bussing her teammate:

nutella is on the fence lynch her

(jk)

And this lynch is anything but uncontested.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:22 pm no one thinks it's weird that literally everybody suspects rdw? are we going to just be okay with another uncontested lynch?

"Everyone"?

Don't you suspect him too?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:21 pm I have to get ready for work. I'll try to check in every now and then. Try not to let tinfoil in. RDW is the lynch. We need a mafia lynch to flesh out who the deepwolf or wolves are and RDW is our best shot.

Arrrrr!

[VOTE: RDW] aubergine

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:14 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:13 pm Seems like we are defaulting to lynching the low activity guy and the recently replaced.

I say set it all on fire and take over the Bastille.
And yet RDW has no votes

Mafia controls 1/3 of the votes rn. Why are none of them voting for RDW even though all of them say they suspect him?

(I'm assuming the people who didn't participate the GTH suspect him too based on statistics)

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:14 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:13 pm Seems like we are defaulting to lynching the low activity guy and the recently replaced.

I say set it all on fire and take over the Bastille.
And yet RDW has no votes

CFD?

Seems like we are defaulting to lynching the low activity guy and the recently replaced.

I say set it all on fire and take over the Bastille.

Mac I think you should post the table again.

I think there is a deficit of Owner talk in this game compared to everyone else, yet I don't see how she could fake that early claim.

Well I guess we talk about her a lot regarding Dragomir's cases but that's just it.

I guess I'm used to nutella as part of the big, happy civ family who wins and loses together. She is one of those players who just feel like part of whatever towncore is estabilished. I'm not feeling her that way in this game.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 5:03 pm Dragon D. Luffy Do you have more to go on regarding nutella? I can't hardly read her because she's tunnelled on me so hard this game, which she often does as town to much the same effect.

Instinct. I don't know. I'm terrible at reading her. She just doesn't feel like a trustworthy person to me. There is a quasi-town core I'm feel a part of and she's not in it.

Granted rn the quasi-towncore is probably just me and Mac with maybe Drago. I guess Lux was in it. nutella is around, playing her own game and I don't know what it is.

It seems I have only 3 suspects. Lynch them in any order to win. kthxbye.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 4:59 pm Nutella
Speedchuck
RDW

bad
civ
bad

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 4:57 pm DrWilgy
MacDougall

civ
civ

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