The Syndicate

Black Rock wrote:

Golden wrote:

Black Rock wrote:Congratulations. I was going to go after Golden but I was killed a night early. I even tried to leave like I somewhat believed him so maybe he wouldn't kill me. I knew he must be Mafia when Llama turned civ.

I was always very wary of you. But on that last night epi asked me who I was most worried about and I was very clear - timmer. So you did a good job with that one.

You should have killed him.

We thought he wasn't gonna be active again so early.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also lol at MM having the info to take down Golden but never doing it because timmer was alive.

I've felt the fool quite a bit recently in endgames. Flash, RYM 86, this game... I don't know why you all keep my around so long. I've yet to win a game when making it to lylo as a civilian.

I'm not making fun of you about the shades thing though, you really had no option. You have 2 people with shades and didn't know who to pick. :P

But yeah, sometimes we have a rough streak in this game. It's okay though, I think you are pretty good at this game.

Epignosis wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Epi planned to to bus me hard since d1 to gain cred, and I played along. Getting me lynched was not the goal, but we figured out that if I managed to survive long enough it would give Epi enough cred to win us the game in the long term. He was worried the question system would make the game really complicated for us so he wanted to make strategic bussing from the start.

On d2, when I made that slip with G-Man and he voted me, it became clear I was going down. So the team literally threw me under the bus. Again, I just played along.

Golden wasn't bussing me from the start like Epi was, but he did it on d2 after we decided to sacrifice me.

My friend DDL has pretty much summed it up.

Except that we did not literally throw him under a bus.

That would be painful for him.

f****** English teacher. :P

Golden wrote:It wasn't that we didn't want to.

Brazil is just a long way away.

Epi planned to to bus me hard since d1 to gain cred, and I played along. Getting me lynched was not the goal, but we figured out that if I managed to survive long enough it would give Epi enough cred to win us the game in the long term. He was worried the question system would make the game really complicated for us so he wanted to make strategic bussing from the start.

On d2, when I made that slip with G-Man and he voted me, it became clear I was going down. So the team literally threw me under the bus. Again, I just played along.

Golden wasn't bussing me from the start like Epi was, but he did it on d2 after we decided to sacrifice me.

He had about 1 in 2000 chance of doing it lol

Exactly, that's why I was complaining about the tie one page ago.

You were my shield in this game.

Actually the best player in the game was Sockman, who named the entire scum team on d1 to his fiancé without even reading the thread.

Too bad he wasn't actually in the game.

Golden played the entire game while only being able to talk to us at 2 times in the day, and not at the phase end.

We had to coordinate the d1 votes and pray for Golden to do the right thing. Thankfully he did.

Also lol at MM having the info to take down Golden but never doing it because timmer was alive.

@Rico: you were pretty active on night 1, building big posts against llama and all, so we assumed you were a likely receiver of the question. We decided pretty much every kill in the game based on that.

I TOLD YOU GUYS. I TOLD THE GODAMN TIE WAS GONNA BE MY DOWNFALL

We shouldn't have killed Ricochet on D1.

Well, I'm not complaining, we won.

VICTORY

My first win on Mafia Syndicate

Good work team.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I have come to the conclusion that at least two of these players are mafia.

• Epignosis
  Golden
  Hedgeowl
  nijuukyugou
  timmer

OMG, you cracked the game. My team can't possibly win now

We have a master detective in our presence, folks

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Hey, where you flying?

I've never been on a plane in my life.

Florida --> Chicago --> San Fran --> Eugene. Though now I've got some down time because the flight is delayed.

I don't recommend flying. It's expensive and usually not fun. Oh and it's near impossible to find a good meal.

I like flying, except for the turbulence. I always get dizzy when there's turbulence.

The thing I like the most is getting to the place I'm going to, though, not the trip :P

Hedgeowl wrote:

I lol'd.

G-Man wrote:It's kind of hard to have a raucous party with only three people (again, TurnipHead just kind of lounges about), so we're hopeful to get some company in here soon.

Oh yes, I really do hope that too. The more, the better.

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I'm kind of typing fast here so I can keep arguing with everyone and I'm making some mistakes.

That mistake was a pretty big one, no?

In any event, you weren't hearing arguments anyway. I said you were "refusing to see other perspectives even when people are making legitimate counter points". Thats my point. People WERE making legitimate counter points, and I think economics DDL would have considered them more carefully.

The biggest black mark against you, though, from my perspective, was jumping on the G-Man comment about there being momentum in voting for me yesterday. Because no matter how you slice it, if you read the thread it's clear that there just wasn't.

I may listen to your counter points but I have no obligation to agree with them. Yes, I'm a stubborn person. Deal with it.

Roxy wrote:Dragon - I do not remember you scraping together a list that you say is not completely objective - I do remember you giving thoughts on players with quotey posts and linkys that *was* objective. What you posted in this game is very different than that game.
Sure you change targets everyone does in mafia but that has nothing to do with your mudslinging post imo. I have nothing against how you play (I would even say you are more subdued in this game) what I am noting is this is a very different game than Economics for you.

Your response to me and Epi (and Gman for that matter) feel like a baddie being caught out.

I did come up with a read on everybody during D1. I did not outright say it was subjective, but nobody had called me out on that so I did not feel the need to.

I'm kind of typing fast here so I can keep arguing with everyone and I'm making some mistakes.

sorry I said "votes" I was actually meaning to say "arguments"

Golden wrote:DDL, you style does feel different to economics. In that game, it felt like you were quite perceptive to me, and you set out making perceptive posts to shine a light in different directions. I'm not seeing that here, it feels more like you are fighting arguments in your corner and refusing to see other perspectives even when people are making legitimate counter points.

I'm not gonna change my opinions just because somebody said they see them as evidence for me being scum. If you wanna convince me of something, do that with otes, not just threatening to lynch me.

Enjoy the read:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I don't think you've been calling people "scummy" left and right. I think you've been downright blendy. Posting a lot, but saying little. And yes, planting outs for yourself.

Well, if you think my posts say little, then there's nothing I can do. I'm saying what I have to say. Now, posting a lot is something I always do in those games, I'm not afraid of saying everything that comes to my mind even if I think it has a low chance of being useful. Imo, more information is always better.

As for the outs, I guess it's just how my style is. I've been spending the last few hours thinking about that, and I think it's because of a few things:

First I'm an analytical person. I like to consider every possibility when I say something, and I like to mention every possibility because I don't want to leave room for mafia to do something I don't expect them to do. So if I say I think someone is town for a reason, I'll also mention the possibility that they are faking it or something else, because I don't want people to miss that possibility and trust my read 100% (and I want to remind myself not to do that either).

Second, I'm a person who feels very bad about offending others. Doesn't mean I never offend others, but when I do I tend to feel bad about myself almost immediately, and I will avoid doing it if I can. So when I accuse someone, there's always a voice in my head telling me that I may be offending the guy, and that I should probably leave a comment to show that I'm also considering the possibility of them being town. You may think that as a bad thing in mafia if you want, but that's just how I am. It doesn't stop me from accusing people when I think it's necessary, though.

Well this is starting to look like some kind of therapy. I think we got to the point where either you believe that's how my style is, or you don't. There isn't much I can do to prove it.

Epignosis wrote:Yes, this shit again.

Then I suppose I gotta dig into that thread and quote one of the one million posts where I explain why I like to explore multiple possibilities when I talk about things? Points which you did agree with?

Roxy wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:The whole thing wasn't completely objective, to be honest. I tried to find things in people's posts that could mean something, and then gave my general impression about them. There is logic but there is also the gut feeling element. The whole point was to see if I could throw some points on the wall and see if anyone sticks, than actually making an objective spreadshit of how people are playing.

Spreadshit is right.

Throwing mud to see what sticks is a classic baddie ploy. you even admit yourself that it isn't completely objective lol

I did the exact same thing in economics. I even remember using the exact same words. It's about trying to put new ideas on the table to see if anything could produce reactions that would make someone get lynched, or change the game flow to a direction that could hit mafia. It's how I operate, I keep changing targets so I can explore every possibility.

Epignosis wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:One possibility is that you're mafia trying to get me lynched. But if you're town, then at the very least it means you're being sloppy.

And the other possibilities are...? That G-Man is independent? Nope. Don't see any of those.

It's equivocal posts like this that I look for, especially early on. "Maybe this, maybe that." That, plus some of the unscrupulous claims you made Day 1, like fingersplints being a defeatist?

I've already said I am most suspicious of Black Rock and DDL.

Guess who got my vote?

ffs Epi, you're claiming I did the same thing you were calling me out for in economics. This shit again?

Honestly it feels less like you guys are reading my alignment and more like you have something against my playstyle.

The reason why you changed your mind isn't what is important here, it's the fact you are accusing me being bad for holding an opinion you held yourself at some point.

One possibility is that you're mafia trying to get me lynched. But if you're town, then at the very least it means you're being sloppy. Because your whole reason for lynching me is based on the fact I said something you disagree with, even though you said the same thing a little before. Sure, the context means you weren't as informed as you were when you changed your mind, but you can't just declare every person who says something you disagree with a mafioso and do it again every time you change your opinion.

Golden wrote:Vote anaylsis. Thread analysis. Two different things. It's great to see where they align and where they don't.

I'm more and more seeing a vote for DDL as a possibility here.

Sure thing. But the one I'm talking about is the former, not the later.

And the former is the one that gets baddies killed, not the later. The former would require a save from mafia if more people listened to Roxy and decided to take you down. Talk about the thread all you want, if one or two small voters suddenly showed up and said they wanted you dead, you'd be dead. You can't hide that.

Yes I did, but you're even worse in this game. You pretty much only started playing it one hour ago.

Golden wrote:I want to vote MM, and would do so if I thought I could definitely do it safely right now. But I'm wary of the possibility of needing to use my vote in self-defence again, so I'm holding it for now.

@DDL - I was third to get to equal two votes, which I suppose you could call 'leading' but really I believe momentum is better judged by the thread.

The whole thing is subjective, but you can't say there was "zero" momentum. There was some, and THEN it died down.

And seriously, G-Man, this time you're contradicting yourself. You can't say this:

8. There was never any momentum for a Golden lynch- just weak or non-stated reasons.

After saying this:

6. Whatever momentum there was for voting Golden stalled out halfway through the votes.

You clearly said you think there was momentum for a Golden lynch. Yes, you admitted it was stalled, but that's the exact same thing I'm saying. Now you're going back with it to implicate me?

You can't say something and then pretend you didn't so you can get someone lynched. If anything, that looks like a cheap way from your part of trying to start a bandwagon.

DId you actually make your technicolor thingy because you wanted people to read it, or did you make it just to try to make it look like you have opinions and then hopefully use it to drive the thread in the direction you want?

I disagree with you guys, there was, at some point, a momentum for a Golden lynch. Call the reasoning for the posts random if you want, but he was leading the lynch at a point. The votes were there, and at least Roxy was fully on board with it, arguing with him and calling him mafia.

The momentum was short-lived though, which could mean that mafia managed to change the attention of the game to other targets, or could be simply mean the momentum was not strong enough.

Alright I think I've already made every point I could. Time to get this poll rolling before the phase ends.

votes BR

Interesting points G-Man, other than the fact you're suspecting me. Not much I can argue against since it's a full-team read and I can't speak for other people's votes.

What I can say is that since the start of the game, I did not want to lynch inactive players just because they were inactive, and I wasn't gonna change my mind. I'd rather make my vote useful and stick to my own beliefs, even if that put me into a little risk. But I figured out the vote was close enough that it was worth taking that risk and trying to make a more useful vote. If anything, not to get lynched later because of being an hypocrite and doing what I'd said I wouldn't do. So I voted MP not because of the inactivity thing, but because of his posts which I perceived as suspicious (and still do).

Anyway, looking at your other points: now that I look at it, the suddenly loss of momentum on Golden's lynch is certainly fishy, and could show an attempt of his teamates, such as BR, Splints, or Daisy, of saving him. It will be a good idea to keep paying attention at those players' interactions.

Right now I'm thinking of voting either BR, G-Man or MP, depending on how the phase plays out.

Sorry, spreadsheet*

The whole thing wasn't completely objective, to be honest. I tried to find things in people's posts that could mean something, and then gave my general impression about them. There is logic but there is also the gut feeling element. The whole point was to see if I could throw some points on the wall and see if anyone sticks, than actually making an objective spreadshit of how people are playing.

Look, the point is, she could have came up with an excuse for her lack of activity and bad vote, but instead she openly came out and said "yeah my vote sucked". Even if she is mafia, there is a degree of honesty to it, because she is admitting her vote sucked.

The problem is that if she is mafia, this is an effective strategy to get people's sympathies without having to come up with an excuse.

Continuing the previous post:

Missing Person: The name of the last phase, due to his very late avatar upload. Also a guy who seems to love tunneling. He has been tunneling on both splints and llama since the start, posting quick comments on people without explaining much and seeming to be very sure of his reads. But overall, the whole play sees forced. Less like a guy with actual conditions and more like someone who is just throwing stuff on the thread to look like he's paying attention. I'm reading him as mafia.

nijuukyugou: Not a big poster, but she had some useful things to say. She vote on me based on "a vibe", according to herself, which sounds legit but is also a pretty easy way out for a mafioso. She opposed the TH lynch, which is good. I'd like to see more posts before I make a read, but for now I'm leaning slightly town.

Roxy: Pretty active poster, having opinions on everyone and suspecting multiple players. I didn't understand much her reason for voting Golden, seems like a small thing, since he could be legitimatelly trying to pressure her to gauge reactions. Most of her suspicions, in fact, seem to be based on small reasons, such as G-Man's joke vote. This could be an easy way for a mafioso to voice suspicions, or even to bus her partners. Leaning slightly mafia on this one.

Spacedaisy: She had exactly one useful post in the game, but at least it's a big one, so it's likely just her playstyle. Her vote is problematic, being a late vote on TH, but she explained it and made some seemingly honest points. A mafioso could fake it, though. Leaning slightly mafia on her.

llama73: Another pretty active poster, he was the main driver of the inactive hunt yesterday, leading to a bunch of arguments and gaining the support or suspicion of everyone. His vote, although misguided, is pretty consistent with his behavior along the phase, even though I did not agree with his positions. He was Ricochet's Arch-Nemesis, which could provide him a reason to night kill Rico, although that goes into WIFOM territory. I'm leaning town.

timmer: Not the most active poster, but made some interesting points in his posts. His vote was pretty weird, being a possibly very easy vote for a mafioso, or even a bussing, but he said so little it's hard to get a read. I'd like to see more before making a read.

It is honest because if she is a townie, then it is believable. She admits her vote is easy and says she only did it later because she forgot. It can happen.

But that doesn't mean she can be called a townie, because as much honest as it COULD be, it is still an easy excuse for a mafioso to make. Honest =/= civilian-like. Her vote was still one of the worst in the phase, together with her post history.

The game is kind of dead so I'll try to post some quick reads on each player. Hopefully this will get some discussion going.

Black Rock: Didn't post much, jumped on TH's lynch wagon late and didn't do much other than agreeing with others said. Looks bad. I called her out on that and her defense at least looked honest, but it's not that hard of a defense to make.

Epignosis: Started the wagon on me, and has been tunneling on me since the game started. That can be risky behavior for a mafia player imo, which would make him likely town in my eyes. But I've noticed he has been posting little in this game compared to the other game I played with him, which seems weird. Something about him feels calculated. Then again, it's Epi, I think being calculating is his whole thing.

fingersplints: Pretty active poster. Had some posts that felt weird for me and others, but had mostly genuine reactions, and feels like she is trying to solve the game. She seems to react emotionally to some things, but that's how she was in economics where she was town. Was the third last player to vote on me, which could be opportunistic but also consistent whith what she was saying before.

G-Man: 90% of what this guy says should be green or orange. Seriously. Other than that, there's some discussion on whether to lynch inactives or not, followed by the second vote on TH. Consistent, but lacking any bigger contribution to the game. Well, this is a guy who claims not to take the game seriously, but I can't help but think he was a lot more active and useful in Economics. There, he was posting reads and arguing with people everyday, which I'm not seeing much here. Leaning baddie on this one.

Golden: One of the most active players in the game, despite his multiple claims that he is not having time to play. Has argued with other players a lot, specially Roxy, and then voted MP after a lot of spceulation about him. So far seems to be a player who is trying to look at the game from multiple standpoints and solve it, which looks civilian at first hand. But I know Golden is more than capable of faking civilian behavior, and following other's opinions to stay with the flow of the game. I'll be careful before I label him town again. So far looks neutral to me.

Hedgeowl: Barely no activity, and no votes. No read for now, but if this keeps up she might become a lynch candidate down the line.

Metalmarsh: Came early on d1 and voted Golden, not explaining much why. Lots of fluff, a somewhat silly argument with Golden about yesterday's lynch, and not much else. I remember MM looking a lot more useful in Economics, where he was replying to multiple posts and asking difficult questions. Here, he just seems to be cruising. But it seems his whole nonsensical d1 vote thing is his meta, so that might still be consistent. Leaning slighly mafia, but I'd like to see more.

I'm breaking the post in half and posting the rest later.

Bummer. That was some really solid play you were making here, Ricochet. Hope I play again with you some time.

I'm reading through day 1 posts and BR's ones caught my attention. It feels to me her vote on TH was pretty oportunistic. She only agreed with what splints said then jumped on the wagon later in the phase, after waiting for two players to do it first. And did not say much more. I'm leaning mafia on her.

Meh, that's why I don't like to lynch inactives.

I'm still suspicious of MP. I don't like how he keeps tunneling on llama and splints, despite not having voted either yesterday (sure there was the RL reason, but like I always say, RL problems can be exploited). He quickly decides there is scum between them but doesn't elaborate much, and doesn't risk getting his hands dirty lynching them.

I was leaning slighly town on llama yesterday, now I'm not sure. His posts feel legit to me, but I have to admit the whole pushing of the TH wagon was fishy as fuck. There is certainly mafia among those four, and it might as well be llama.

But for now I'm leaning on voting MP again, unless someone more scummy shows up.

Epignosis wrote:Also, does DDL look like a young Tim Curry or is it just me?

I googled the dude and I think this is BS

nijuukyugou wrote: 3) Dragon's pinging me the most out of anyone, mayhaps because of the confident-sounding "guess" that MPerson (god dangit, that looks too much like A Person) would be modkilled/replaced, and claiming that FS was being "defeatist" so soon. There's a vibe about him I don't like in his posts. Hi, Dragon! We haven't met

Hi. I think we almost met in BoB but I left that game. Nice to meet you!

Not much to say about your suspicion, since you didn't say much other than having a feeling.

What I can say is that I'm usually pretty foward in these games, and that tends to rub some people the wrong way. I've been lynched more often as townie than as baddie, if you believe me.

I'm sticking to my guts here. vote MP.

I'm not voting TH because I disagree with lynching inactives this earlier, and I'm not really feeling the Golden lynch. I mean, I'd be stupid to trust the guy after economics, but his posts feel genuine until this point. I don't know whether he is legit defending me or just trying to get on my good side, and I'll keep a look at that.

I'm leaning on voting MP right now. Not much because of the avatar thing, but I didn't like the way he compared Roxy and splints, or the way he set a lynch between splints and llama. The whole thing felt forced to me.

Splints is somewhat suspicious for that matter, but my main reason for suspecting her was kind of shitty so I'm giving her a pass. Still not sure what to think of her sudden defense of MP.

I'm leaning town on llama. I don't agree with his logic, but he managed to explain it well and seems to be willing to come foward in this game.

Ricochet wrote: Both DDL and Llama repeatedly call MP a "she". Oh, and then Timmer too. Are they trying to impersonate me? Splints got it right, apparently a woman can tell.

He's a guy? I think I mistook him for someone else then.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:One thing that bothers me a little is that some people are a little quieter than I'd like - epi, hedge, daisy and ninja come to mind for me here. Although it could be because of the conflated timeframe by which to make our first vote. I think I might seem quieter than usual too. But I have my eye on this going forward.

I'm a little tired of this. When I post a lot, people say I'm distracting. When I don't, people say I'm "a little quieter" than they like. I post when I have something to say. Sometimes that's a lot. Sometimes it's not.

I've questioned DDL on a few points here and there. The former item makes me wonder if DDL asked in BTSC what would happen if Missing Person didn't post an avatar, and the host told. He says it was a guess. I don't believe that. The second item exaggerates fingersplints' attitude and makes it into something it isn't.

Is there anything else you like from me, Lord Golden?

Well I think I already explained all of my posts and answered your questions. What else do you want? You haven't done much in this game other than asking me questions.

Not sure if you're town or mafia. This tunneling reminds me of how you played in economics, where you were town. But Golden has a point that you seem to be posting less. I'm leaning slighly mafia on you.

timmer wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
If she puts an avatar or gets replaced, we'll then be able to ask questions about her avatar. Problem solved.

I'm more suspicious of people who try to direct the game's attention into lynching inactives.

Hey Dragon, to get serious for a second here, you ARE aware that you made this post before Missing Person had posted, right? So technically, you were trying to direct the game's attention... into lynching an inactive.

No, I was trying to direct the game's attention into suspecting someone who was suspecting the inactive (llama).

Technically you could say I was helping make more people pay attention to MP, but that was the side effect, not the goal.

@splints

Forgot about that one. You're right. I still think my theory works most of the time though, you aren't gonna make me change my mind about that.

But I'm gonna give you a pass for now since it seems I misinterpreted your post this time.

And I wasn't deliberately jumping on G-Man's suspicions. I saw something I agreed with and decided to pursue it. I take responsibility for my own suspicions, regadless of whether someone said the same thing or not. I'm very aware that mafia can use that kind of play to makes townies lynch each other, and I wouldn't fall to that if a townie got lynched.