The Syndicate

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:13 pm Undeniable fact- at the tail end of the lock-down, part of me was considering the possibility that DDL was the mafia half of a corrupt masonry kind of like what I did in Red vs Blue.

The best strategy for a scum who wants to win the game is to put you and me at lylo with the last scum.

100% guaranteed mischop.

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:49 pm Uberplanning for every possible scenario of rule-breaking and modkill is infeasible. If we have to set an expectation for hosts to plan around every negative possibility, it’s time to close shop. I’d rather hold players to be better (like we do) than to ask the impossible of a host.

To be fair I don't think I've ever had to deal with someone getting banned in lylo of my game so that's a choice I've never had to make, and might have done it like nook explained.

But otherwise, if I control modkills, I try to do them in a non-disruptive way. And they don't stop the day, or I wait until the day is over to make them. I have modkilled players in the middle of the days, for breaking my own rules, and the show kept going.

Btw changing subjects, theres something I've been dying to say.

I really like what Urist did with the setup. I don't really see it as satire, I see it as playing with a framework to manipulate players' expectations and force them to analyse a list of potential rules. I think I might host a Normal game myself sometime, or maybe design my own version of normal game and host multiple games with it, because the idea of a standard list of roles that allow for surprises like this is really cool.

That said, NAA's mason role wasn't normal.

To be fair I yeet LC 90% of the time at the last day.

It's hard for me to let go of that delicious teammates post I made.

Also I think I'm never reading nanook town in any game until the end of time, cuz at this point I just feel like an idiot.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:36 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:29 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:28 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:25 pm I don't get it, doesn't LC's death put us at 3v2?

Day ending modkill, nk can't be blocked

Why is the modkill day ending?

Literally never seen a modkill work like that before.

Different people do it differently

Personally I tend to make it case by case. In this case a non-game ending modkill would've rewarded town, and town shouldn't get rewarded for being modkilled at f6

Hmm ok you have a point.

Kind of wish there was more notice for this, though.

Well whatever, GG to the mafia, I'm not gonna make an argument about this. They did play better than us (case in point: they got more yeets that benefitted them).

Just uh... next time make the modkill rules clear beforehand, cuz apparently that's now a thing players need to strategize about as they play.

Like I saw the notice of the ban in the staff subforum and was actually happy because this put the game at an odd number. Lmao.

Where I come from, modkills happen and the day keeps going.

PSA: if you play at a game I'm hosting, modkills don't end days. I thought that was the default but apparently it isn't.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:28 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:25 pm I don't get it, doesn't LC's death put us at 3v2?

Day ending modkill, nk can't be blocked

Why is the modkill day ending?

Literally never seen a modkill work like that before.

I don't get it, doesn't LC's death put us at 3v2?

Let me guess TSP is the power role isn't he

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:20 pm Low key don't feel like sending in an action. Not gonna lie.

Relax kid, we are yeeting your teammate not you.

Actually I really like what you're doing Gman, keep up.

Love when someone does the rereading work for me.

The common thread that links LC and TSP is they both think the other one is mafia but they both want us to exhaust every other option before we go yeet them.

Pack up guys, we solved it.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:14 pm ok teams

nanook/gman
nanook/LC (can afford to clear gman)
ddl/falcon
LC/gman
LC/sprit
sprit/gman

and that's it?
any of these seem not plausible?

Going by this post, TSP's top suspects are LC and Gman.

This is also the first time TSP mentions LC in the context of the game. Day 4. Until then it was just early game fluff.

The second time will be in Day 5. TSP has a hard time acknowledging LC's existance, despite thinking he's in more possible scum teams than others.

If you look at my previous post, you will see the vice-versa is also true, though not this strongly.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:46 pm Unless it’s LC/Nanook which is possible but not really

Nanook's partner could be LC, it's possible but "not really". It's probably Gman.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:41 pm Anyways Nanook and LC claiming the same role makes me think that that team is now possible and something went very wrong in scum chat because that’s just funny

Nook and LC could both be bad.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:43 pm It’s probably just Nanook / GMan though

But probably not.

So I've been rereading this day phase and I believe there is a pattern.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:14 am Lime Coke - ME!!!
Dragon - Claimed backup mason in a chat w/Falcon
Falcon - Claimed backup mason in a chat w/Dragon FUCK THOSE DRAGONS
G-Man - Fake inno'd by an RPS'ing cop that was night killed

TSP
Nanook
Spirit

This is POE.

I have it ordered like this mainly because of the FingerSplints analysis that was her talking about TSP always being wolfy to her, which I feel spews him town off of her having a "no accountability" misyeet available where she has an excuse as to why TSP wouldn't be correctly read by her.

This game is simple.

LC thinks TSP is bad but wants us to yeet nanook and sprityo first.

His reason for liking TSP over the others is pretty interesting too:

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:42 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:21 pm Tsp is always wolfy to me

TSP probably spewed town.

Splints said something noncommital about TSP and LC concluded she spewed him town. What a coincidence.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:57 pm I'm honestly not sure if TSP is real or not but Nanook is the safe bet.

If it's not him then fuck this game.

Could be TSP but definitely is nook. And if not, blame the game, not the players for not going after TSP when they had the chance. That's a comfy position to be in.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:08 pm It's probably just TSP and Nanook. I already claimed fucking jail keeper why does mafia have a roleblocker for no reason?

It's TSP and nook.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:57 pm I'm honestly not sure if TSP is real or not but Nanook is the safe bet.

If it's not him then fuck this game.

But he wants to know we are fucking up by yeeting TSP first.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:16 pm You literally just said it's me and TSP. What has Nanook done to be removed from the pairing? Existing?

But when questioned about that, he asks "why not nook". No comment on "why not TSP" from Lime's part, he just wants us to go back to nook.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:04 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:56 pm Also, LC you have TSP/Nook as teammates, so yeah Nook's already been bussing TSP and vic versa. Why are you voting beside your scum read?

I literally just explained this. They're going to bus each other to try to avoid being teamed together by voting the unclear villager and losing if one of them is yeeted.

I'm literally going more by preference.

I'd rather kill Nanook because he's going to be a bigger pain in the ass to get yeeted than TSP.

It's TSP and nook, but he would rather kill nook first since nook is annoying to yeet (did he miss we almost yeeted naook two times)?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:10 pm [VOTE: TSP] aubergine

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:11 pm Whatever, this'll flip mafia and then I'll have a shot at blocking the night kill again, then we'll have a misyeet back and it'll be auto.

ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT, I'LL VOTE FOR MY TOP 2 WOLF READ, GEEZ, WHAT IS UP WITH YOU PEOPLE?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:44 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:39 pm Ok so you may pick one of me or falcon tonight.

Now nook is restricted according to himself, so he has to pick falcon. So if falcon dies tonight thats's a sign nook is lying.

Meanwhile you can protect me again. So if I die tonight, it means you are lying.

And if nobody or someone from the poe dies tonight, well, good for us!

What do y'all think of this plan?

Only fails if mafia has a strongman, I suppose. Or a roleblocker, though we killed that one so it's unlikely they have two.

Oh.... holy shit that's an amazing idea.

I jail keep you.

Nanook jail keeps Falcon.

Whoever dies with that person protecting them is outing the fake.

Fucking Jailkeep testing!

Then I point at my plan (which has at least 2 possible flaws, strongman and roleblocker) and it's like christmas just came early. I guess since TSP is going down this is a good way to ensure nook next?

I no longer trust my plan.

Scum already realized they are never yeeting me and falcon and they have moved to making fake claims against the rest of the poe.

I gotta say, scum may have jumped the gun. Never underestimate the sheer potential of leaving me alive in lylo, it always makes people tinfoil. Especially if with Gman. There are only 3 things certain in the world: death, taxes, and Gman will read me as scum.

There is one scum in TSP and nook because TSP says he got a red check on nook.

There's most likely one scum in LC and nook because they are claiming the (almost) exact same role and I seriously doubt there would be two jailkeepers in this town.

So the consensus seems to be scum is either TSP/LC or nook and you.

But there's also room to discuss TSP and nook pairing, imo.

G-Man wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:16 am Upon re-reading the first two game days in full, I've made some observations:

DAY 1:
-Lime Coke started the game pretty punchy and was quick to challenge folks as to whether they could read him one way or the other. There were also a few posts that, in retrospect, look like they could be a little too knowing.

-Nanook is about as prickly as I remember him being.

-Tony is such an at-the-radar player that I get a null read.

-I see the point at which DDL eases up on his pursuit of Falcon after the latter claimed backup mason. This is just another piece that helps me feel at peace with their masonry claim.



DAY 2:
-Nanook suggesting NAA didn't have a mason partner made me

-Tony was quick to embrace Falcon as mason-legit after NAA's flip. Makes sense, but it's also a little loud for him considering his D1. He also became more talkative once he racked up some votes. This is curious.

-Lime Coke seemed more cautious/intentional D2. Kept a decent-sized mischop player salad available for his POE.


Going to pick up from there tomorrow. As of right now, I lean toward the two remaining baddies being Lime Coke and Tony.

Gman I know you are contractually obligated to always tinfoil about me in every game we play until the end of time.

But here's one strong reason me and falcon are confirmed:

LC, nook and TSP are currently claiming red results on each other and counterclaiming each other. Like, at the very least, one of them is bad. And if one of them is bad, me and falcon can't also be bad.

Not sure how I feel about LC being extremely excited for my plan after I said exaclty why it's not perfect.

Well the possibility of strongman makes this unviable, I suppose. Like we can still plan it that way but we'll never be sure who is lying unless TSP just happens to flip strongman.

Ok so you may pick one of me or falcon tonight.

Now nook is restricted according to himself, so he has to pick falcon. So if falcon dies tonight thats's a sign nook is lying.

Meanwhile you can protect me again. So if I die tonight, it means you are lying.

And if nobody or someone from the poe dies tonight, well, good for us!

What do y'all think of this plan?

Only fails if mafia has a strongman, I suppose. Or a roleblocker, though we killed that one so it's unlikely they have two.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:32 pm Like my role is super nerfed but I did what I could with it.

Are you allowed to target the same person consecutive times.

Oh yeah nook and LC can just jail each other tonight (well, one will pretend to be jailing each other, but it's the thought that counts!)

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:42 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:41 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:40 pm He is getting CCed by two different people

Who's the 2nd person?

I claimed a role cop on him as not his role which is basically a CC

You can also be scum with him and this is just you two helping the other one win when the first goes down.

TSP is scum and then we can analyse which one of LC or nook is telling the truth.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:40 pm He is getting CCed by two different people

So if nook is scum, either he randomly claimed the same role LC had (with the loyal modifier), out of hundreds of role/modifier combinations, or he knew that role was in the game (because his team has a role cop).

Uh... is there a role cop in the game?

Oh wait, there is!

All paths point to you.

Ez.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:44 pm I’m a role cop, Nanook’s a goon

A Role Cop is an investigative role that learns the role of its target, e.g. "Cop", "Doctor", "Roleblocker", etc.. There is no indication of the target's alignment; if a Mafia Goon or Vanilla Townie is investigated, they return "Vanilla". Role Cops are actually a somewhat popular Mafia role, but have also been seen aligned with the Town.

ez indeed

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:16 pm He said goon don’t ask me

At this point either you are scum or host made a secret bastard game, advertized it as normal, put the Heist queue and told everyone he's be following a set of rules without meaning it.

I'm not losing a game to that level of speculation and if it turns out to be that that's a discussion for syndicate mods to have, not the players of the game.

They go away from the definitions too since they say a mason cannot be alone.

To be fair Gman proved early on that the game is not normal.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:16 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:15 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:06 pm ...do I need to explain what loyal jk means?

I'm a jailkeeper, but it only works if I target town. So functionally a doctor.

Obviously it's non-consecutive or wilgy would still be alive

Why didn't Urist just make you a doctor

Why did he make two backup masons and one mason

At least the mason has a mechanical effect. Seems like a clever way to nerf the role.

Yours is just a more complicated role for the sake of complication.

The only benefit for the setup I see is hiding the fact theres no townies to block.

Is anyone else sitting on PRs? Cuz now it's time to claim.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:06 pm ...do I need to explain what loyal jk means?

I'm a jailkeeper, but it only works if I target town. So functionally a doctor.

Obviously it's non-consecutive or wilgy would still be alive

Why didn't Urist just make you a doctor

Not a particularly hard claim to fake if nook scum, but not hard at all to believe in if he is town. So his claim is whatever.

It does change the chessboard a bit though, because if nook is town and we don't yeet him today, mafia really has to shoot him next or they risk giving us extra days. So leaving a JK Nook alive puts extra strain on the mafia and makes our next day more comfortable.

All that is, if nook is town. If hes maf, and we don't shoot him, the other scum is harder to hit.

I'm leaning on killing tsp over him and the other options, though.

[VOTE: tsp] aubergine

Ignore my previous post lol

Everybody sleeping on the fact that even with a poe, we lose if we don't yeet one mafia until tomorrow.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:31 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:11 pm How will tony look if nanook goes over?

like if town looks X and if mafia looks X?

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:12 pm because the votes are split:

1 mason
1 self preservation

with G-Man being functionally cleared and on my wagon and TSP who is in the PoE on Nanook

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:15 pm because I know for a fact, I am town. and when I flip town Nanook can claim self preservation and try to push lime coke since that's the only other person on the wagon who isnt viewed as really town

I'd still like this answered regardless of my fate

Uh... TSP is voting nook so I don't think they are super likely to be both wolves.

Like yeah bussing but there have been a lot of changes today I think a wolf could find a chance to protect their teammate here.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:33 pm also for consideration, it'll be MYLO tomorrow considering I am lynched so any and all interaction would be nice

LYLO, actually. We have odd numbers here.

@Lime Coke I know you aint feeling it but if you can start feeling it soon it would be fun and games.

I like that argument.

You live.

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:50 pm Like if you have questions or whatever that's fine and I'm happy to answer or engage or whatever

But I mean

I'm not gonna pretend to care about the order when the order does not matter at all for me lol

I could argue but if you don't care why should I

See you next game I guess.

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:52 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:26 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:18 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:29 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:14 pm Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

Sure.

I was told I was backup mason. After NAA died, I was put into a BTSC w/ DDL, the same one NAA had before they died. He talked to himself a little, and then DDL & I joined and have been chatting since

Under this premise, you are also suggesting that NAA did not have a BTSC partner in his mason chat prior to death?

He did not

Unmodified mason is not a possible role for NAA in light of both responses by DDL and Falcon.

According to the MafiaScum Wiki that this game is based on, a "Normal" mason is as follows:

A Mason group is a set of players who can communicate (via a shared Private Topic), and who know that every member of the group is Town. In Normal games, Masons are absolutely 100% Town; just as with the Mafia's private communication, it is up to the moderator whether the Private Topic is usable both Day and Night, or at Night only (although an Encryptor in the masonry will of course allow it to be used at any time regardless of the decision).

It is possible for multiple independent masonries to exist in the same game. A masonry must contain at least two players (as players know their own alignment and can already talk to themselves).

A solo mason with no partner, whose death creates a new masonry, isn't a mason at all. They are simply an enabler. If this is a "Normal" game, then I would expect it to follow the "Normal" structure for a "Normal" role. If NAA was this enabling role, then either his classification as a mason is incorrect and misleading or this game's classification as "Normal" is incorrect and misleading.

As such, I can't eliminate from my mind that DDL and Falcon could be running a gambit as the last two remaining mafia. This makes winning the game much harder.

Heh.

@Urist you got exposed.

G-Man with the OCD vote.

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:43 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:36 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:53 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:44 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:14 pm Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

The theory:

There may or may not be one or more masons in the game.

If a mason dies and I'm still alive, I become a mason. If there are any other masons in the game when that happens, I join them in BTSC and get mod confirmation of their innocence. If any other backup masons exist, they also join the same BTSC.

The practice:

Me and falcon are backup masons. NAA was a mason. So his death triggered us both being added to the BTSC chat that NAA originally belonged to.

Normal games may only have townie masons, so I'm 100% sure falcon is town.

Under your premise, NAA (the known mason) did not have a BTSC partner with him in the chat?

He didn't. He could have had, the rules allow for it. But Urist only made one regular mason role.

Meaning town got super lucky since mafia's first NK was aimed at a role that needed to die to become useful.

Until NAA died, did you know that either NAA or Falcon was a fellow mason?

@falcon45ca- until NAA died, did you know that either NAA or DDL was a fellow mason?

Nope.

Nanook is giving me "too scummy to be scum" vibes.

The last two times I thought he was too scummy to be scum, he was scum.

Being fooled 3 consecutive times by the same play is not something I intend to allow.

[VOTE: nanook] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:02 pm It doesn't matter what order they go in as long as they go

Even if you know you are town, we don't, so going out of your way to make it harder for us to trust you doesn't help your stated goal of not being yeeted to win the game.

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:53 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:44 pm

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:14 pm Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

The theory:

There may or may not be one or more masons in the game.

If a mason dies and I'm still alive, I become a mason. If there are any other masons in the game when that happens, I join them in BTSC and get mod confirmation of their innocence. If any other backup masons exist, they also join the same BTSC.

The practice:

Me and falcon are backup masons. NAA was a mason. So his death triggered us both being added to the BTSC chat that NAA originally belonged to.

Normal games may only have townie masons, so I'm 100% sure falcon is town.

Under your premise, NAA (the known mason) did not have a BTSC partner with him in the chat?

He didn't. He could have had, the rules allow for it. But Urist only made one regular mason role.

Meaning town got super lucky since mafia's first NK was aimed at a role that needed to die to become useful.

Also if you look at MafiaWiki, the way masons work here is pretty strict. They can only work the way I described. You feel free to believe if me and falcon made a double fake claim or not. Or to try to spot if we are claiming something different from the official role. But the official role is pretty much unable to lie to players.

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:14 pm Unsure of my direction after some ISO work. There are seven of us left. Two of us are mafia. I know that I am town. That leaves two mafia among the six of you. All I need is a POE of three and we win. If the backup mason duo of DDL and Falcon is legit, then it reduces my POE to four. This would mean I just need to identify one more town role and we will be on the path to victory.

@Dragon D. Luffy and @falcon45ca: explain to me (preferably one at a time) how you know your role to work.

The theory:

There may or may not be one or more masons in the game.

If a mason dies and I'm still alive, I become a mason. If there are any other masons in the game when that happens, I join them in BTSC and get mod confirmation of their innocence. If any other backup masons exist, they also join the same BTSC.

The practice:

Me and falcon are backup masons. NAA was a mason. So his death triggered us both being added to the BTSC chat that NAA originally belonged to.

Normal games may only have townie masons, so I'm 100% sure falcon is town.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:43 pm I thought NANOOK was town leaning because of his interaction with Axe? Did I miss everyone flipping their opinion on him?

Did you?