The Syndicate

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:22 am ....Mac is voting for me? I guess I have a lot to discover in these five pages lol

It's been a ride.

For the first time in a long time, I am genuinely having fun playing a Mafia game. The zen approach is a keeper.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:57 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:53 am Dragomir could kill him.
I repeat, Turnip Head town read Dragomir. If Dragomir just lost a teammate Rej, why would he kill an ally? Not to mention Rej probably spewed him town in the "I don't get the case" post. Which also spews me town tbh. I'm clearing Dragomir off all of that straight up.

I'd been operating off of the same notion of spew. I think you'd called it NAI earlier? Describe the inside of Mac's brain here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:57 amNutella would 100% kill him. She fell victim to Turnip Head's skill in a big way in Firefly. Long Con probably just wants you, me or Epi dead most of the time. Especially you if he is scum and you are town, after that EOD. I don't think newcomers come to the decision to kill TH without help from at least someone who knows him well enough to talk about what a threat he is.

[mention]nutella[/mention] can speak for herself here. Off-hand I wouldn't discount her. I think two newcomers could still kill him, but by the raw numbers it's unlikely to be two newcomers anyway so okay.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:57 amWhy are you ruling out TSP?

Night and day difference from Persona 5. This isn't the same guy. I don't think he killed TH because I don't think he is a cat.

I don't think TSP killed him.

Dragomir could kill him.

I do grant though that a Turnip Head kill gives more avenues for analysis than most Night 1 kills do. I don't think Dom did that. I don't think Epignosis did that. It's a question I can ask about anyone I have suspicion for.

speedchuck may have done that.
sprityo could have done that.
Any newcomer could have done that.
I think Long Con would oppose it, though he is mostly absent and may not have the voice.
I don't really know how to answer with nutella.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:44 am I am not wrong about any of the case. All of those things are absolutely facts. There is no other reason for #5 aside from you hoping to gain some town cred from it and you are 100% lying about 6. TH is a POE kill and you are mister POE. At best you are lying as a townie.

I promise you that I am not lying. If I am to even be generous in this arena, I could say "no I don't think I would do that", because I haven't actually faced the situation. I would not want to kill him, that much is absolutely certain. And yes, I believe that I would outright oppose it. Otherwise I am robbing Turnip Head of a return game and everyone else of Turnip Head. As much of a robot as I might be, I do have a soul. Or whatever that shit is that dictates moral behavior.

I am going to leave this here, because the dialogue has long since failed to be productive.

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:34 am So Rej grouped me and michelle together based off of our absent-ness?

that's all i got from that

I can't do much with this. That's not your fault. I need to know what you think of people.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:38 am My "dumbest case on you ever" is:

1. You defended the dead wolf right before he flipped.
2. You voted with him on the counterwagon.
3. You put a microphone in his face.
4. The TH kill profiles as driven by you and very few others.
5. You posted your insignificant TH/Rej analysis to gain distance cred from the TH kill.
6. You are 100% lying about the fact that you would never kill him. 100% lying.
7. All of the aforementioned and you have the audacity to dismiss it as the stupidest case ever.
8. Now you're OMGUsing.

I was referring exclusively to #4, #5, and #6, the Turnip Head things. Those are very poor. You clearly don't agree. I think something used against me is stupid, go figure.

The previous points are the more obvious infractions that got me into shit with other non-Mac people first.

You're wrong in any event. So it goes.

I'm not interested in a Mac lynch, to be clear to the viewers at home.

And of note in that scrimmage from which you're pulling words, Mac -- despite my real desire to keep us all alive, when it became clear that Ultra was going to be in trouble: I bussed him. I know how to land on the right side of history.

What really happened EoD 1 was actually close to a carbon copy of the TSP lynch in Persona 5. I started on the right track, got into various other dialogues, and veered off it [barring a mafia LC]. I ended up voting TSP in that game, though my vote was meaningless atop a larger heap. Sometimes I'm a doofus.

Whatever, have we bitched long enough for me to earn a take on sprityo?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:31 am For those playing at home Jay watched the recent game in which I was emotionally manipulated off my reads by wolves who called be dumb and I subsequently failed to lynch them btw. So if you don't agree that my points against him are bad then perhaps consider that he is using actual knowledge of my weakness against me here.

I have no desire to emotionally manipulate you or anyone else. I don't think that kind of thing is honorable Mafia play. If you've felt emotionally affected by something I have said, I am genuinely sorry. Your read can be whatever, but I am absolutely serious about this. I play the game above the belt.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:28 amRight, let's just shut the fuck up for a second. Like, you in particular.

I was a major proponent of the day 1 wolf lynch and you hard defended the motherfucker just before he flipped.

Easy to get the gold sticker when you know the answers before class.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:27 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:26 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:25 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:24 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:23 am Oops sorry I let my Australian slip for a second.

But seriously, you wait til I drop my shit on you to put that out there? You are being an antagonist Jimbob.
You killed TH, and in anticipation of the accusation you stepped in front -- and parlayed it into a reason to join the JJJ lynch bonanza. Wet fart.
Fuck, right, off, with, that, shit, you, basic, ass, motherfucker.
No. Your read is so terrible that it can't be real.
You are 100% now taking the piss.

If your read is real then it is the single worst read you have made on me in our long and storied time together. MacDougall. Mac Q. Dougall. Marcus Querilus Dougall III. Think about it for eight seconds.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:27 am It's not a case of would not. I CAN not kill Turnip Head after making these posts. It is a brick wall of logic. There is no realm in which I can proceed past this point. It's like video game boundary.

Well none of that means any damned thing.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:25 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:24 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:23 am Oops sorry I let my Australian slip for a second.

But seriously, you wait til I drop my shit on you to put that out there? You are being an antagonist Jimbob.
You killed TH, and in anticipation of the accusation you stepped in front -- and parlayed it into a reason to join the JJJ lynch bonanza. Wet fart.
Fuck, right, off, with, that, shit, you, basic, ass, motherfucker.

No. Your read is so terrible that it can't be real.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:24 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:23 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:22 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:21 am I mean actually, the entire premise that I am the only person who would kill TH, regardless of whether my claim to morality is believed, is quite silly. The most obvious name to tie to that kill is MacDougall. Mac can be a cat.
Oh really cunt?
Yeah. You veered too far from the reasonably out-there theoretical space and into the stupid theoretical space.
Oh do tell me which space was stupid smart guy?

The first guy to speak out against the dead mafioso was killed. You used that to go after me. It is stupid. If the kill is so "optimal", then it can be assigned to a ton of people.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:23 am Oops sorry I let my Australian slip for a second.

But seriously, you wait til I drop my shit on you to put that out there? You are being an antagonist Jimbob.

You killed TH, and in anticipation of the accusation you stepped in front -- and parlayed it into a reason to join the JJJ lynch bonanza. Wet fart.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:22 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:21 am I mean actually, the entire premise that I am the only person who would kill TH, regardless of whether my claim to morality is believed, is quite silly. The most obvious name to tie to that kill is MacDougall. Mac can be a cat.
Oh really cunt?

Yeah. You veered too far from the reasonably out-there theoretical space and into the stupid theoretical space.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:33 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:24 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:18 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:20 pm Agreed with concern about Rej take. Potential TMI on Dragomir.
Why? What about it strikes as TMI?
I'll answer for him. Firstly, you have been actually pretty scummy. So for Rej to defend you is TMI. Rej has no reason to feel like you have been civvy enough to question the people casing him.

Rej is taking the opportunity to gain your trust by dismissing the case as incredulous, which is invariably how you would feel as a civ. In the event of a civilian flip of you he is distanced from the case making of a bad lynch, which is where people first look for wolves (even though it's usually never that simple).

Now, onto Fayt, who we have common ground on.
This post smells like a litter box. Paints quite a big picture of events. "Actually pretty scummy"? Mac is purring like a devil

"Let me tell you eight thousand ways that JJJ would kill TH"

I mean actually, the entire premise that I am the only person who would kill TH, regardless of whether my claim to morality is believed, is quite silly. The most obvious name to tie to that kill is MacDougall. Mac can be a cat.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] why did you read me as a civilian in the first place?

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:15 am JaggedJimmyJay where is this rej post i can start at?

Here's something to look at

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:15 am I am going to proceed to spam Jay is Mafia in the thread every time I have a moment to post and do nothing else until you are dead. Thanks.

Cool just make sure you check my posts afterword, k? Everyone always fucking ignores my dead posts except that one Mountain game (heh) and it makes me a sad panda.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:11 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:09 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:08 am Well you played yourself and your team if you are a townie and really thought that I'd buy that defence Jay.
Oh stow that junk, Mac. It's your job to listen to what I say and give it fair consideration. If you still decide against me, that's fine. If you just sit on your hands and say "I am Mac, I don't believe these things, it's Jay's fault", then you can go choke on a chode my dear boy.
You would 100% kill TH if you were a wolf and it was an optimal kill. The longer it takes for you to recant the more I will tunnel you.

I don't care if you tunnel me. Tunneling is your weakness, and I think you know that. I will not recant the truth. How about sprityo?

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:11 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:10 am Meanwhile can I get some more feedback about sprityo please? I don't think anyone said anything but Dom.
ive said approximately nothing and done approximately nothing

any other questions?

To be true I am not sure you can say much. It's about Rej's treatment of you.

It's good to see you anyway sprityo. It's been a fun Day 2. You should take a dip and see what you think.

Meanwhile can I get some more feedback about sprityo please? I don't think anyone said anything but Dom.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:08 am Well you played yourself and your team if you are a townie and really thought that I'd buy that defence Jay.

Oh stow that junk, Mac. It's your job to listen to what I say and give it fair consideration. If you still decide against me, that's fine. If you just sit on your hands and say "I am Mac, I don't believe these things, it's Jay's fault", then you can go choke on a chode my dear boy.

Ain't never gonna be a game in all of the world where my mafia team loses two men, myself included, on the first two days. I'm awesome.

Most annoying part is that even when my role is revealed you still won't believe me on this point.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:04 am "Alright, crew. At a glance, I think the best advantage we enjoy from the gun in this setup are the numbers. 4 of us and 13 of them represents a manageable situation. For that reason, I think it's paramount (more than it would be in most other games) that we all survive Day 1.

Our collective task is to ensure that at least one civilian is more suspicious than we are."

That is wolf Jay distilled into it's essence. Does a player with that mindset have any room for sympathetic kill choices?

Never not voting Jay. Self vote.

Go figure we lost a mafioso Day 1 in that game.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:02 am Jay's kill methodology is always "what is optimal". I don't believe for a second that he'd override the game experience of his wolf teammates in the interest of "site health". It's bunk. It's bullshit.

It is a great personal relief to me that this is untrue. I understand the perception, because in most cases I am all about optimality. I do make exceptions though. Just like I don't lynch newbies on D1.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:02 am He killed Sloonei in our game on Bubblegarden, that's all I need to know

He's the only guy that actually knows how to read me. Maybe MP too. So yeah they can die.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:55 am Jay, present take on Mac?

I still lean green. He's living in the theoretical space that I have come to associate with him -- ideas that are at face value perhaps improbable because they require numerous moving parts and conditions. The ideas are not, however, ridiculous to the point of absurd tinfoil etc. I think he looks the part.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:54 am Just btw I 100% believe Jay would absolutely kill TH if he thought it was the right move, "site health" be damned. I have wolfed with Jay and cannot in a million years imagine him saying "let's not kill TH because he's only just came back" if TH was empirically the best kill to be made. He'd be like "exterminate the prick and even better because I can say that I'd never do it and dumb shits would believe me muahahaha". Jay is absolutely cold and pragmatic as scum and him even trying that on as defence is scummy as shit.

Pragmatic certainly, cold nah. If you don't buy it that's fine. I want Turnip Head to stick around and killing him immediately is not the way.

Thanks for expanding [mention]Fayt[/mention]. The points you make are valid, and again I don't think you seem like you're making them up. That's good.

I just have to contend with the surprise that you're the one defending me right now. That's the last thing I would have anticipated entering this day phase. There's a certain degree of instinct that most people face when hounded as a suspect as I did with you entering this phase. To look entirely past that and see me as a civilian, even considering my LC vote and general EoD activity, is... a miraculous display of restraint.

I'll just keep mulling. That's what JJJ does, see? He mulls.

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:48 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:41 am There's also the general fact that there's literally nothing to say about sprityo and Rej still said things about sprityo.
I think this is the best point you've got.
And it's the last one you made.

There can be no slam dunk case against a man with four posts.

He can still be a cat, and I'm inclined to explore that.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:46 am About JJJ, Rej's read on him made no sense at all and I don't know why he didn't grill him for it. Rej had him as civ yet he thought his suspicion of Drago were forced, then he had him as a scum read. Reminds of the scrimmage game with Ultra and Jay when they were bad together and he had a scum read on him.

No offense to ol' Rej, but honestly: very few of his posts made sense. That can be called suspicious (rightfully in this case), and I did find some of it suspicious. It can also just be called "I fundamentally do not understand how this guy's brain works, how he conveys his perspectives, and there may even be a language barrier". There was a bit of that in Persona as well.

The latter interpretation gave me doubts. I was never really comfortable with a Rej lynch.

[mention]novaselinenever[/mention], present take on Fayt?

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:38 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:38 am
Dom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:36 am Why are you singling out sprityo and not Michelle?
Michelle has already responded to me, and I think she sounds pretty genuine for the most part. I got nothing for sprityo.
That tracks.

But... why would rej link them, then?

I'm just not sure what the point you're making is.

When he spoke of them as siamese twins (get it?), the implication tended to be vague and negative. He voiced some suspicion early, and then recalled it repeatedly later without developing or acting upon it. I think there's utility there if one of them is a teammate, as it wrongly forges a connection to the other (a civilian). If the civilian goes down, it looks good for the teammate. If the teammate goes down, it looks bad for the civilian.

There's also the general fact that there's literally nothing to say about sprityo and Rej still said things about sprityo.

I really want to know what nutella thinks about everything in general. She can respond to queries herself; that's what I await.

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:36 am Why are you singling out sprityo and not Michelle?

Michelle has already responded to me, and I think she sounds pretty genuine for the most part. I got nothing for sprityo.

tbh the TH kill could also be in Dom's favor. How long has it been since they've played a Mafia game together? That would be a lame choice.

Obviously all of this stuff is subject to "but maybe the other mafioso overrode!". I'll consider that player-by-player. I don't think Epignosis gets overrode. I think Dom would be reasonably animated about it too.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:32 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:16 am I suspect sprityo. What do you guys think of that?
I got nothing there, what you got? TSP is my non-poster suspicion.

I suspect sprityo infinitely more than TSP.

Rej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:20 pm I don't get the scumreads on Dragomir. Sounds a bit forced by JJJ and novas, also it was quite a speedy jump.

Mac is looking OK

There was a thing with Sprityo and Michelle that bothered me. They just quoted each other and then dropped the D0 fluffing. It gave me a "picky" vibe.
I really wait for @sprityo and @Michelle post to deduct further about their alignment in the game.

Again about the above tizzy I feel like JJJ is town. It fits with his previous townplay of engagin agressively to collect as much data as possible from something, I like it and I wanna see more of it through the course of the game!

I am too tired to read a wolf in Drago or novas, in best case I want them to be town with us.

I will go sleep now, I hope I won't have to catch up that much pages when I am at work after I woke up.

Rej wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:07 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:35 am @Rej what is your absolute favorite thing ever about sprityo in this here game thread?
Gimme a break I cant ISO posts on mobile, can I?

Anyway its first impression, besides fluff they show a readyness to set a vote or move a vote as seen when approached Michelle.
All in all Sprityo seems like one who tries to bait other players with fluff posts.
Gutfeeling is good. I didnt saw a low ammount of posts comming from them either when skimmed through.

Why do you see them as cat?

Rej wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:55 am @Dragomir we must be the best mafia players on earth when people always try to get us dayoned.

Yare yare I come and I have to catch up as fuck on mobile.

Ok switch in scenes: I am sitting on the toilette and have time now:
@JaggedJimmyJay I was neither civ nor scum reading Dragomir. Until you bring me a vital slip I wont scumread Dragomir that easily simple as that. Get used it.

Back to JJJ : I feel you are way too agressive to get a clear civ read from me. I dont know how scum profits from this but we got 2 fast wagons started up. And I feel town does not profit from these wagons. We still have time and need to wait for some replies.

So I have 3 votes on me. And I threw soft suspicion on Michelle and Sprityo. I feel like scum is voting me up in hope that my wagon becomes stronger EoD when others join up to generate an easy mislynch.

I will revisit novas post brb.

Rej wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:01 pm OOOOOOOOOOOH, I didn't knew what "spew" means until I read your explanations below. Omg thanks, now I can read the situation better.
This is my bad and a new interaction I should consider.

As for nutella I don't find any scum tells or scummy approaches by her towards some other player.
Now I think Mac and Fayt are getting more interesting for me.

I can't get more reads at this point as I rely on Sprityo and Michelles reads.

I will look at Long Con and then I looked at everyone.

No need for Dom ISO, that guy looks pretty townish since he became active in the Drago suspicion train.
But I ask myself if @Dom has some other reads, like some read on Mac (bringing back Mac because I think Dom was asked about Mac before and he had no read about him back then).

Rej wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:10 pm I am torn between a pressure vote on Michelle/Sprityo and solidifying the lynch on Drago. But if I won't like the flip I will pretty much feel bad.
Another option is voting @Turnip Head because I feel they haven't given enough reads this DP to read them back properly.
Turnip do you have some input on others? Votes have been moved to Speedchuck for example. I didn't like how he voted me so I question @speedchuck if his vote on me is locked?

okay addition after Michelles read on me:
@Michelle I would always @ you, sadly we haven't played much games fully together, I often leave in the early stages. xD
I need more reads from you tho, and I sadly know nothing about your scumplay I feel.

Rej treated sprityo and Michelle like they were conjoined at birth.

Why

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:24 am Mac, have you flipped to maybe Jay is bad?

His vote is on me. U dipping those tippy toes in the lynch JJJ water

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:25 am GTH nut is civ. Her reaction EoD feels genuine and how she was flip flopping. Feel like she came in late without any prep and everything caught her by surprise. There was that post where she reacts to someone else's take on the Rej's/LC thing and switches from Rej to LC.

Felt the same way.

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