The Syndicate

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:JJJ why do you think some one would come out and call you bad in the right up?

The only person who knows the answer to that is the person who did it. I can do as much as guess:

This person suspects me to be bad, realizes that I tend to be difficult to lynch without behind-the-scenes influence, and tried to use his/her role power to motivate other people toward making that happen instead of compiling a case (which might genuinely be less effective for that objective).

I'm not going to lie to you, right now you are a slight mafia read on my list, but that's because of of the volunteering a strong civ in a dual thing.

I can understand that people disagree with that strategy. I have not endorsed actually applying it yet myself either, it's a circumstantial thing. Do you suggest that there is no circumstance that could possibly happen in this game where it might be prudent to consider an alternative to the obvious suspect vs. suspect dynamic?

sig wrote:Okay, I think it is an equal probability, or it is possible that it is more likely for mafia to do that. True a townie could come in and screw it up, but I think that is highly unlikely. If it was planned ahead of time.

Frankly I think it's already unlikely that a baddie team decided in BTSC to concoct a "Buscemi eyes" scheme in the first place. The entire conversation starts with that complete speculation.

Jan: are sig and DrWilgy the only players on this roster that you are familiar with?

sig wrote:I disagree with you here JJJ how do we know INH's vote was random? Assuming they have BTSC Wilgy and INH could've easily preplanned this. I believe I mentioned that early in day 0 as well.

We don't "know" it was random, but I do think it's a higher probability of being random than MM's or Bullzeye's votes which were placed independent of any in-game conditions. Even if there's a BTSC plan to post Buscemi eyes, it's plausible for a townie to still post them first and screw that up. This doesn't exonerate INH; I just think his vote is less suspicious than the other two.

@Dom

I'm also surprised to see any assertion that me deliberately pursuing a spotlight position in a game is "out of character". Are you confusing me with someone else? :P

Dom wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dom wrote:Folks, don't trust Lyin' Scotty and Tricky Jay. Lyin' Scotty looked for an opportunity to seize power without any sort of content. Tricky Jay has used bad thinking all game. Not good, folks, not good.

I don't necessarily think you're bad Dom, I'd just like to have a conversation. What have I said or done that you haven't liked?

My distrust of you, Tricky Jay comes from you campaigning for yourself for prefect. That seems wildly out of character for you.


(c) Paid for by Dom/Nju 2016

I volunteered myself for prefect, but I did not campaign for prefect. Show me what you're talking about.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:JJJ why do you think some one would come out and call you bad in the right up?

The only person who knows the answer to that is the person who did it. I can do as much as guess:

This person suspects me to be bad, realizes that I tend to be difficult to lynch without behind-the-scenes influence, and tried to use his/her role power to motivate other people toward making that happen instead of compiling a case (which might genuinely be less effective for that objective).

TheCapsFan wrote:I'm due for a reread. I'll try and come up with some thoughts on active players. Is there any way I can find the past vote count?

Here is a unique thread where all poll results are saved.

Considering the visible differences between Nanman and the Yellow Turbans (two more players and much stronger dueling strength for the Nanman), I think it's probable that there is night kill protection somewhere among the Yellow Turban secrets. There aren't many better ways to attempt to re-balance those factions that I can think of. I suspect the secrets for the Turbans are extensive and powerful either way.

It's pretty speculative. I do agree with Glorfindel that there's a better-than-usual probability that at least one of the kills was missed, given the prevalence of quiet players and missed votes we've observed so far. With this many missed votes and quiet players, that's not an illogical deduction. It's not the only possibility, but it's a strong possibility. I'm not really sure how we'd be able to reliably determine which quiet players are the most suspicious quiet players at this point though.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:I didn't like Russ's recent "Congratulations on lynching Wilgy, guys!" It doesn't feel honest.

I think I'm voting for him today.

Speaking of Russ:

Russ, it'd be groovy if you could talk to me about my Day 1 case against you. It's a new day and I am not one to cling to old material, but I need inspiration to change my mind. Let's chat. We've already talked some about the first point, so please focus on the other two.

I think Soneji will show up eventually. He's been here since the game started. He always seems to start silently.

Bubbles wrote:hi all to explain the last post, yeah i wasnt exactly sure what a duel was ! I figured it was just a battle of wits, where the players had to solve some kind of puzzle backstage or something to that effect, im just stupid didnt read through everything before hand, to be honest my heart is really not into mafia i probably shouldnt have signed up, if you guys are ok with it and if there's a replacement available i'll be happy to bow out otherwise just going to play in this way & hope you're okay with that

I'm inclined to believe you Bubbles. I'm not sure it means you're town, but I don't think it means you're bad either.

Dom wrote:Folks, don't trust Lyin' Scotty and Tricky Jay. Lyin' Scotty looked for an opportunity to seize power without any sort of content. Tricky Jay has used bad thinking all game. Not good, folks, not good.

I don't necessarily think you're bad Dom, I'd just like to have a conversation. What have I said or done that you haven't liked?

Turnip Head wrote:Also JJJ, though I'm reading you as town right now, I was surprised to not see your votes used for self defense when you showed up at deadline.

Yeah I got here at literally XX:58 and had to phone vote, I didn't even look at the tally. I'm surprised I even got my votes in on time.

Hey Simon, what do you like about Russtifinko?

Dom's votes are both bizarre. He should talk about them.

Bubbles votes were based on the notion that "Scotty and I would put up a good fight" based on what she has seen in past games. This makes me wonder if she didn't understand the dueling concept or what she was actually voting for. Bubbles, please talk about that.

Golden wrote:Jj is a noob. Hoping Simon doesn't realise I am as well.

Asked why I wasn't consensus town to see if anyone was taking my posting seriously. Only ddl, and I think that's probably par for the course and not suspicious.

I kinda think you're town. How about that.

Dom wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dom wrote:Do I even have to explain why this is bad?

Yes.

Don't trust this guy. Folks, we got another liar on our hands !

(c) Paid for by dom/Nju2016

We really gave this dialogue a great effort.

Simon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Simon wrote:JaggedJimmyJay is my first target because he makes me think he is a noob.

Sometimes I feel that way Simon.

What makes me look like a noob?

Your name.

Yesterday I got beat badly with the same name in a computer game, so you're right.

Simon wrote:JaggedJimmyJay is my first target because he makes me think he is a noob.

Sometimes I feel that way Simon.

What makes me look like a noob?

Dom wrote:Do I even have to explain why this is bad?

Yes.

Hey Marmot, please talk about those things I said about you related to Wilgy.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Here, let me help.

Epignosis wrote:Shu – Virtue

Zhuge Liang
Strategist
He is the primary strategist of the Shu faction.
Zhuge Liang may post his thoughts in the thread each Night through the Host.

Hi Zhuge. I'm good. Bye Zhuge.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Epignosis posted it, and he knows your role.

Next time I'm hosting you and you're town, I'll find a way to do that to you.

Clearly someone thinks I am bad and has sent a message to the thread (or a baddie is fudging me). Okay, neat. Whoever you are, just make a case against me or accuse me of something and I'll talk to you.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm only sad that I couldn't face DrWilgy in a duel myself.

Nobody died, there are two mafia teams that can kill. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of them missed their kill.

And in other news, JaggedJimmyJay is bad.

What's yer beef, Marmot?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Not to mention both the Scotty and Wilgy wagons seemed to appear in the last 2 hours or something. And that was weird. Thankfully we got Wilgy, but I couldn't help but think something fishy was going on.

It was almost like a... CFD.

I think the last three Wilgy votes are pretty telling. Would any of those three (nutella, Elohcin, Glorfindel) help throw him into a Day 1 duel at the last minute when he wasn't really under that much heat otherwise as his team mates? I doubt it.

So, we have two baddie factions that are supposed to kill each night and neither of them did. Is an entire team filled with inactives?

There are obviously other possibilities, but this game is as lurker-loaded as anticipated so it could be.

Things Wilgy himself said in isolation:

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Golden wrote:Jay, why did you vote for yourself?

Because he skipped the rules section on page one. Lol

The rules say that self-voting is permitted, but it doesn't seem like a very Jay thing to do to give himself a potential reward.

I disagree Golden.

I think what's actually most striking here is this "Why didn't everyone vote for themselves"?

No - I mean, I'd expect it from a Wilgy. It seems odd from a Jay. Particular a Jay in a close contest for the lead.

I've got an idea though - how about others stop speaking for Jay, because I want to hear what he has to say about it.

Speak for Jay? Was that my intention?

This looks to me like Wilgy talking to someone not on his team. Golden was a little uncertain of my prefect self-vote, and Wilgy took the opportunity to engage Golden in a little fake discussion while also buddying me (and perhaps trying to generate a false JJJ-Wilgy link). Golden's annoyance at people speaking for me and Wilgy's response reinforces that perspective for me.

DrWilgy wrote:Im very suspicious of Lorab now that you mention it Marmot friend!

Well this looks incredibly fake. One must determine whether it's distancing-fake or just fake-fake. At the moment I lean toward the latter. LoRab has no posts, there's no basis for suspicion -- not even for distancing. Why even try?

Posts about Wilgy after Day 0:

MacDougall wrote:I would like to see Wilgy and JaggedJimmyJay in a duel. Who wouldn't?

Mac's vote was the first for Wilgy, and it seemed more randomized than informed (Mac can contest or affirm that). This could be a flier bus vote or a lucky vote. I don't think there's a good way to determine which. I am no more or less trusting of Mac than before.

Jan wrote:However, I don't remember your playing style. I remembered Wilgy well because we were both scum in that one game we had.

Jan expanded a bit on his experience playing with Wilgy.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Here's a list of people who haven't posted yet:

Bubbles
LoRab
rabbit8
Soneji

Eventually, I want to have a showdown with DrWilgy though.

This Wilgy mention seems rather arbitrary.

nutella wrote:Oh I also want to hear more from Wilgy. I feel like he's usually a lot more active than this, but I keep forgetting he's even in this game and I don't think that's a good sign. Likewise with sig, to a slightly lesser extent.

nutella brought up Wilgy, noting his absence during Day 1 up to that point. Wilgy actually appeared out of nowhere two minutes later, which is somewhat curious. I don't think that necessarily reflects poorly on nutella though, and I like that she was willing to specifically bring him up in a critical way. There was really no need if they're team mates.

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

nutella wrote:Oh I also want to hear more from Wilgy. I feel like he's usually a lot more active than this, but I keep forgetting he's even in this game and I don't think that's a good sign. Likewise with sig, to a slightly lesser extent.

How could you forget about me LoRab? I was at work and had dnd night, but never left...

wat

It's like you just woke up from a bad dream at precisely the time someone talks about you

Scotty noticed how quickly Wilgy responded to that and pointed it out. It's a decent touch for Scotty, though I do think some baddies might do this to their team mate (since it isn't a scathing accusation and can be easily subverted). I'll still say it's a somewhat positive reflection for Scotty.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I should just start playing like MM. He has more fun than I do.

Are you not having fun?

Stay determined friend.

DrWilgy wrote:

nutella wrote:Oh I also want to hear more from Wilgy. I feel like he's usually a lot more active than this, but I keep forgetting he's even in this game and I don't think that's a good sign. Likewise with sig, to a slightly lesser extent.

How could you forget about me LoRab? I was at work and had dnd night, but never left...

LoRab hasn't posted yet DrWilgy. Does that bother you?

Softball question which doesn't really have the potential to lead somewhere meaningful.

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

nutella wrote:Oh I also want to hear more from Wilgy. I feel like he's usually a lot more active than this, but I keep forgetting he's even in this game and I don't think that's a good sign. Likewise with sig, to a slightly lesser extent.

How could you forget about me LoRab? I was at work and had dnd night, but never left...

wat

It's like you just woke up from a bad dream at precisely the time someone talks about you

Marmot friend told me in btsc that I was being talked about.

Im very suspicious of Lorab now that you mention it Marmot friend!

Wilgy plays WIFOM, projecting MM as his team mate.

Elohcin wrote:Done with work (for now) and I realized I gotta choose two people pretty quickly. So, another 3 pages to read, but I don't have time. I voted wilgy and bubbles.

I had 4 votes when Elohcin voted for Wilgy to put him within range of getting into the duel. Nice look.

nutella wrote:Surprised JJJ has so many votes.
Anyway I'm going ahead and voting for Scotty and Wilgy.

Similar deal for nutella. Glorfindel also voted Wilgy to secure him as a duelist. Good look for him.

~~~

The player emerging from this looking iffy is the marmot. Wilgy did well to throw a wrench in that with his WIFOM though. I'll also acknowledge that Marmot placed the second vote for Wilgy overall. I don't remember for certain, but I think that put Wilgy among the pile of people with 2 votes while nobody yet had 3.

Wilgy had 4 votes in the prefect race. I found the posts denoting each of those votes:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I give my votes to DrWilgy and JaggedJimmyJay, in hopes they will perform as they did in Talking Heads mafia.

I'm leaving for a camping trip soon. I'll be back on Wednesday. Peace!

insertnamehere wrote:

leetic wrote:Voted for my fellow Bulbagardener as well as INH from my first game on this site.

Since nobody else submitted any gorgeous Steve Buscemi's Eyeballs to the thread, I'm gonna reward Wilgy and pay Leetic back with a tip of the hat and vote his way.

Bullzeye wrote:Scotty's pitch won me over. I am also voting Wilgy in honour of our epic Attack on Titan victory a while back. If Gleam were here I'd have voted the both of them.

Jan wrote:I'm voting for Sig and DrWilgy, both of whom I know.

Don't vote for me, people. I'm not familiar with the concept that much and I won't be very active probably either.

The reasons offered by MM and Bullzeye are both references to different Mafia games, which strikes me as a nice excuse to promote a team mate's candidacy for prefect. INH's vote was motivated by something totally random (Buscemi eyes), which alarms me a bit less. INH had less direct control over who would post Buscemi eyes. Jan limited his votes to people he knows, which may or may not be accurate (I dunno who he knows, this is my first game with him).

I think there's a decent chance a member of the Nanman team propped up Wilgy for prefect, and if that's the case I'd lean to MM or Bullzeye.

Okay.

Anyway, I was looking through Wilgy-related stuff during the break and I'll post it now.

Just about slept through this accidentally. Voted Dunny/Russ.

I should just start playing like MM. He has more fun than I do.

We have 2 hours left. It'd be groovy if some other folks could give feedback regarding Russ. I know I sound hardheaded, but I do value other perspectives.

Turnip Head wrote:Russ specifically asked that more people use his same rationale, so it makes sense that he took the time to explain what his rationale was. I don't really know why you have a problem with him explaining his rationale, it sounds like you didn't read the rest of his post.

Yeah that's kind of what I'm saying. I see this:

"I'm going to place completely random votes for prefect, it's actually a strategy though, you should all do it too."

I'd have thought much less of his post (less as in I literally wouldn't have thought about it) if it was just "I'll vote for whoever shows me a platypus."

I am more bothered by his response to my accusation than the post that inspired the accusation anyway.

Who do you suspect most, TH?

Turnip Head wrote:Well, Russ said he liked the idea of random offers for prefect votes. He said he liked the idea because it discouraged (in his mind) baddies from easily giving votes to their teammates. Then you took him up on his offer by posting a platypus picture. Then you said that you didn't think his method was helpful, because it allowed people who wanted power to gain it while holding no accountability himself. I think you missed his point completely when he said "Well YOU got power from my offer" (paraphrased obvs). I think what he's saying there is that you should be looking at his behavior as a good thing, because if you're a civ, then Russ helped the right person.

I'll let Russ himself state whether that's what he meant.

I would assert that my capitalizing on the opportunity he presented does not make his idea inherently sound. I capitalized on it because I was there when he said it. If a baddie had been here instead, he/she could have done the same thing. Moreover, it wasn't the idea itself that I found suspicious -- it was that I found his presentation of that idea laborious. If he wanted to relieve himself of the responsibility of investing in his own votes, he didn't really need to tell us all that with any actual rationale. It was Day 0, people vote for random reasons more often than not in that situation.

Turnip Head wrote:Russ reads pretty sincere to me. I thought he made a fair point re: JJJ's reaction to his offer.

Please describe his point to me as you felt he meant it, because I don't see how it's relevant to what I said or even sensible.

Dunny wrote:Does that make sense? I feel like this post lacks sense

I got you mang.

I may not vote for you today. I can't quite decide whether you're being too earnest, but that I am experiencing cognitive dissonance on that is a better thing than flat suspicion would be. I'd need an alternative though.

Dunny wrote:Im still kind of at a loss for who I wish to vote for, unless someone can correct me in my comment about DDL i will most likely put 1 vote there and 1 on Russ for JJJ compelling Day 1 case.

Could you try to tell me in your own words why you're willing to vote for Russ?

sig wrote:I disagree with JJJ for thinking mafia are more likely to say lets target two pingy people.

What do you think they'd do instead?

I'm not voting for MM on Day 1.

Hey, let's make a Day 1 case.

Russtifinko
DDL was the first to bring this post up, and I agree with his assertion that appears a bit forced. I don't think the context of Day 0 demanded that an explanation be generated for people's "if you do X, I'll vote you for prefect" activity. Russ provided an explanation anyway, and it's laborious, and it's actually completely wrong too. He acknowledged that after it was pointed out.
He did that thing where when faced with an accusation, he returned another one upon his accuser -- without clearly stating that it's accusatory. I don't think "No U" is inherently a suspicious thing, but when it comes in this form, where the return-fire is indirect and doesn't net a concrete accusation, it's more of an issue. Moreover the shade he threw at me doesn't make sense. The highlighted portion is Russ essentially telling me that I was hypocritical because I didn't distrust myself.

Separately, the response he gave does not address the original accusation. Instead of more thoroughly explaining his mindset, or attempting to discern my own motives for accusing him, he simply said "if you didn't like it, you shouldn't have posted a platypus". This is inadequate because my decision to post a platypus (am I really typing that?) reflects my trust of myself, not on my perspective of Russtifinko. Instead of addressing the point in some way or another, he turned the conversation against me.
This is too dismissive for my liking. When confronted with my assertion that baddies would be more likely to propose the more obvious dueling strategy (suspect vs. suspect) to look like the logical parties while townies discuss wilder ideas, Russ doubled down with this strong language.

Sorsha wrote:You sound scared.

I don't give a rat's ass.

Turnip Head wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sorsha wrote:I'm one person and at most can give you one vote.

I think too many people adopt this mindset on Day 1, thereby ensuring Day 1's lynch is close to random if not entirely random, thereby ensuring the likelihood of a productive lynch is minimized, thereby perpetuating the impression that Day 1 is a pointless crapshoot, thereby churning the wheels of the self-fulfilling prophecy, thereby causing JJJ's head to explode, thereby rendering him dead.

RIP

Who do you want to vote for?

If I had to vote right now, it'd be for Dunny and Russtifinko.

I think the former has been guilty of "why mes", something I associate more with baddies than townies. By that I mean "you suspect me for doing X when this other guy also did X who you don't suspect, WTF mate". Mac put it nicely when he suggested it might be an example of Dunny being correctly suspected for reasons that he considers to be incorrect or unfair.

I've been underwhelmed by Russ's handling of the suspicion he's faced so far from a few sources including myself. I've gotten the impression he's been more interested in shutting down the accusations than exploring the motives of the people rendering them.

Sorsha wrote:I'm one person and at most can give you one vote.

I think too many people adopt this mindset on Day 1, thereby ensuring Day 1's lynch is close to random if not entirely random, thereby ensuring the likelihood of a productive lynch is minimized, thereby perpetuating the impression that Day 1 is a pointless crapshoot, thereby churning the wheels of the self-fulfilling prophecy, thereby causing JJJ's head to explode, thereby rendering him dead.

Sorsha wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sorsha wrote:I think I'm going to vote for two of the prefects. Jimmy, Scotty, INH... See who's the toughest.

What is the advantage of doing this?

What's the disadvantage? Scared?

Annoyed.

The disadvantage is that you'd be threatening the people who were just named prefects without actually suspecting any of them (or at least you haven't claimed to). That is counterproductive. It's a pointless usage of your voting power. I think you're aware of that. Why aren't you trying harder?

Sorsha wrote:I think I'm going to vote for two of the prefects. Jimmy, Scotty, INH... See who's the toughest.

What is the advantage of doing this?

Scotty wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:OK I won't be around much before the end if the poll so I'm going to go ahead and vote.
My first vote will be for Scotty because most of his post have seemed like filler to me then and that of substance besides him trying to be prefect . Then his votes seems like throw away votes to me.
My second vote will be for MM because he has been active and not really added anything to the thread beside enough to look active. That seems like flying under the radar to me.

That's fair. It is what it is. But at least I have a reason for voting as opposed to someone swooping in, and random.org'ing it up without rhyme or reason.

What is that reason for voting? You've said DF doesn't "inspire" you among the players with few posts. What makes him worse than the other low-content people?

Scotty wrote:Yuck??
JJJ have you never played a game with me? Why do I have to find something fishy about people that are posting? They're posting. That in and of itself lends to a more substantive game. Even if they're talkin of drivel. Talk to me again after this phase about other suspects.

If I HAD to pick someone, you come to mind as someone I could see myself suspecting down the road. But I would rather keep you around to gauge you better in case you are actually civ.

I have played games with you. Indeed I just played one about phobias in which you pushed the easy button eternally and you were bad. So when you do it here you can expect to hear about it.

What do you mean "you could see yourself suspecting me down the road"? Am I suspicious now to some degree?

I'm going to hold an online seminar on Mafia Day 1 philosophy.