The Syndicate

Sloonbeard, can you summarize your suspicion of Jack?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:32 pm Marmot

This one intrigues me.

Simon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:22 pm If I made a rainbow list, everyone would be yellow. I mean come on, the game is just starting.

I read Simon's one post positively. I don't think he'd be hard-pressed to pretend he has reads as a mafioso. In this case he looked at all of us like we're crazy for thinking we know what we're doing on Day 0 and yellow'd everyone. He might be right.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:14 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:25 pm Food for thought: Jay reads me better than any other mafia player on Earth. I will arrogantly claim that I read him better than any other mafia player on Earth. We've both called each other "lock town reads" already in this game. How do people feel about this?

Get a room

First nomination for 2018 best quote has been submitted.

Moved my vote to nutella.

[mention]nutella[/mention], a question for you:

In Mountain Mafia, you opened the game with a perspective of just do it on Day 1, allowing yourself to play "fast-and-loose" and voting as your whims inspired. Example

In this game you seem to be playing from a more timid, uncertain vantage point. You played very well in the mountains game and had a lot of success. Why do you think you've changed in this regard?

sig wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:10 pm I'm surprised Made, JJJ, quin ect took the first page so serious it's odd seeing how it is day 0 first page.

What does this mean to you?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:53 pm btw how large is the sample size for glorfindel's "I am town" meta

It's not really a matter of sample size if you ask me. All I need to know is that he was not town in Mad Max, and no matter how hard I tried or how I framed the question, he would not claim to be town (or answer me period). Quin was on his mafia team and corroborates that. The man doesn't lie; that's his moral decision and I believe him completely.

Epignosis is indeed my biggest mafia read.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:42 pm That said, you went from wall posts about things that reflect badly on me to responding to me with "I think you're probably town" and haven't brought me up since. It's as though you were going cold turkey on interacting with me and I'm not sure how to take it. It at least makes me uncomfortable.

Yep. I can spend three pages of thread space calling someone scum, and if I end up changing my mind I am perfectly willing to drop it cold turkey. There's no use wasting time in the gray zone. I have no specific intention to avoid interaction with you, but with a different perspective now I have less reason to specifically seek your posts out.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:39 pm Either I or someone else should go through the relevant people's posts to figure out if this is player salad or not.

When I think of "player salad" it's more of a broad web of players in a suspicion pool (other than one derived by POE). It looks something like this:

"Today I would be willing to vote for X or Y or Z or maybe... W."

In that regard Made's question salad doesn't look functionally like player salad to me. It does look like question salad though. Made should talk about what interest he has in those questions.

I'll answer mine:

Gun-to-head I would call Mac a civilian. We mind-melded a bit early in Day 0 in a way that I doubt was intentional copy-catting from him.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:36 pm What's the case on Dave? I won't vote him on Day 1 to be nice but I still want to understand all the suspicion on someone who has made little impression on me this game.

"Case" is probably not the right word for a guy with two posts:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:18 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:15 am Dave's bad. Discuss.

I'd agree that he's more suspicious than the other minimal-posters. I agreed with your earlier reception of his first post, that it seemed a bit forced, and all we got tonight was a basic response to an @ tag.

I'm not lynching him today either. Same goes for novaselinenever and lapluie and any other first-timers.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:31 pm 3J, why are you town reading me now? I'm wary of how you went about dropping the suspicion on me.

I decided I believed your comments about being lazy and worn out of playing at a crazy level, and in that context your posts don't really look that bad. I actually found myself feeling a bit of the same thing when I started getting shit and that was telling. All else aside and despite that weariness of the game, you've been heavily involved and weren't deterred by heavy pressure right out of the gate. That's a difficult task for any mafioso. Plus there was the thing you mentioned about your Internet screwing up, and I liked that you were still trying to find ways to keep your presence felt here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:53 am Vote 1 Quin.

In what way(s) do you think Quin's responses to criticism have fallen short of being convincing?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:51 pm So while "I had you orange in my rainbow list before you voiced that suspicion" may be technically true, the implication that there was significant independent reason for that suspicion was all in your head if it existed at all.

I was pinged by your tone and your earliest handling of the pressure on Quin.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:38 pmTo what end would bad Jack go halfway on this?

I'm loud. I respond to accusations. When bad guys accuse me, they are aware that I will say something about it. The assertion here is that you were barely dipping your toes into this suspicion of me, creating this negative environment in the game thread for me by meandering around your read (both "suspicious" and "disappointing" simultaneously) in such a way that when the time to vote comes, you can justify voting for me or not voting for me simultaneously. It's borne out that way too as you have placed a vote for me and in the same breath projected your movement from that vote.

I have stated repeatedly that your handling of me has at best been confusing. Do you acknowledge that I might reasonably be confused by what you have done with me in this game?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:40 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:35 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:30 pm If you say so.

Would you say I'm incorrect if I said "A key component of your suspicion (real or fake) on me is my suspicion (real or fake) on you?"

Why wouldn't I care about that?

Your handling of me has contributed to my suspicion of you, yes. I had you orange in my rainbow list before you voiced that suspicion.

In a vacuum, I often find accusations of "no you" "omgus" to be the sort of near-meaningless weak sauce that anti-civilian accusers try to live on. I want meaningful justification for those accusations.

Is that really what you think? That I'm a baddie trying to justify my accusation?

And earlier, I was a baddie lacking the courage to accuse you?

I don't think you think these things.

That's not what I said. You're not reading my posts. I didn't say "Jack is trying to justify his accusations". I said "'no you'" is a weak accusation in a vacuum and when I see it I want to see it meaningfully justified". When you told me that as a civilian I would be less inclined toward "no you", you did not justify that assertion. I asked for a justification. That is the opposite of me telling you that you're a baddie trying to justify an accusation.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:30 pm If you say so.

Would you say I'm incorrect if I said "A key component of your suspicion (real or fake) on me is my suspicion (real or fake) on you?"

Why wouldn't I care about that?

Your handling of me has contributed to my suspicion of you, yes. I had you orange in my rainbow list before you voiced that suspicion.

In a vacuum, I often find accusations of "no you" "omgus" to be the sort of near-meaningless weak sauce that anti-civilian accusers try to live on. I want meaningful justification for those accusations.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:19 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:17 pm Jack, please describe the things you expect from a civilian JJJ which are not represented in this game thread.

More thought. More questions. Less "no you."

The first two assertions suggest to me that you're not reading my posts. The last suggestion requires expansion -- show me where I have committed a "no you" and then tell me why you give a shit about that.

Jack, please describe the things you expect from a civilian JJJ which are not represented in this game thread.

Glorfindel is confirmed town.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:26 pm Even with Jack's elaboration on his vote, I do not feel great about it. The "I could change to X or Y" disclaimer did not convey it as a confident vote and I could the sense that he was more focused on choreographing reads than actually developing them.

It does on some level remind me of The Scummiest Thing Sloonei Has Ever Said® -- I hope this doesn't start a bandwagon

Made wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:44 am Hi friends
Glhf!

Voting Quin for now, but that might change as the day goes on depending on how he responds to arguments against him.

I changed my mind about Made's first post. It can still be called brazen in its opportunism, but I'm not a fan of the Captain Obvious "but..." disclaimer.

Made wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:02 pm EBWOP: what do you THINK is my alignment?

probs indy tbh. i don't think you're last man standing, so probably the other one.

Made had previously called Sloonei red in some hypothetical [at that point] rainbow, and when pressed he provided this "probs indy" read. I wonder about the potential for deliberate goofball WIFOM here. I struggle to imagine a genuine indy read of the thread's highest poster on Day 0. Insincerity doesn't have to be an immediate issue when we're all throwing turds at the fence anyway, but this still represents a departure/backtrack from the declaration of Sloonei's redness.

Made wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:05 pm hmm....my bad then. do you remember the last time you took any heat or got lynched?

He said at one point that it was interested to see Sloonei taking some heat for the first time. Nobody was giving Sloonei any heat except Made, and even that was hard to call "heat". Made's posts are nigh arbitrary.

Made wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:13 pm Reply to Jay re Quin:
As a counter point, fake reads aren't hard. To steal your read on me Jay, I feel like a baddie would be more concerned with appearances than Quin seemed to be, and his reads would reflect that.

Logical reads don't always mean civve reads

I agree in principle. Is that why you're shoving illogical "probs indy" type reads into the thread by force?

birdwithteeth11
Dave
Dom
DrWilgy
Elohcin
Glorfindel
Gumshoe
Jackofhearts2005
JaggedJimmyJay
Kylemii
lapluie
Long Con
MacDougall
Made
Marmot
novaselinenever
nutella
Quin
sig
Simon
Sloonei
speedchuck
TonyStarkPrime

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:27 pm Why do we even include more than the bottom person on a rainbow list?

To have multiple suspects is just dandy. I don't follow the purpose of placing a vote and then relieving yourself of it in the same post by projecting a switch.

linki: okay, that makes more sense.

Now what's your most current beef?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:57 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:51 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:33 pm *Vote Jimmy*

Most likely to switch to Made or Kyle.

Not voting Quin, Sloonei, Speed, Nutella.

I would like an explanation for several parts of this.

Specifically:
why likely to switch to me? or made?

what sticks out to you about speed that would make you not vote for him? same question about nutella?

Also why vote for Jimmy and then mention that it's not likely to be permanent within the exact same post?

To expand on Kyle's question: if you anticipate a switch to Kyle or Made, Jack, why not just place one of those votes now?

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:43 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:23 am nutella I take back what I said about you sitting on the fence. It doesn't read that way anymore. Instead I'm curious why your wafflyness on me is a point in favour of Sloonei's interpretation.

did I imply it was? I talked a little bit more about you in a later post, did you see that? Basically, I'm wary of misreading you or getting too persuaded by a case especially since I tinfoiled you in Mountains and you were town, but I do think the points on you have been compelling and I'm definitely keeping an eye on you as a potential candidate for my vote. I've gotten a more-town-than-not vibe from most of your responses though. So yeah, I'm waffly.

What points against Quin did you find compelling? What kinds of things has Quin said that you've found to be more-town-than-not?

Dave is moderately suspicious. I won't be lynching him today. I refuse to lynch any player in their first game on the site on Day 1.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:19 am I find this question posed by Jay to Quin to be rather odd. MacDougall had commented earlier that he was thinking similarly to Jay earlier but for Jay to be suggesting some kind of relationship between he and Mac out of the blue like this seems ‘unsettling’.

At that point in the thread, Mac and I had both been hounding Quin. I wanted to know what Quin thought of each of us, because one of my favorite ways to read people is to see how they handle their own accusers.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:15 am Dave's bad. Discuss.

I'd agree that he's more suspicious than the other minimal-posters. I agreed with your earlier reception of his first post, that it seemed a bit forced, and all we got tonight was a basic response to an @ tag.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:06 am *immediately goes meta-spelunking to see if civilian Kyle is an ellipsis abuser*

Yep. Ellipses everywhere in Phenon 2 and Mountain Mafia. Okay.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:44 am Jay, what are your thoughts on Quin and Jack?

Quin seems fine. He was obstinate in the face of my bossy ass, something I think is typical of his civilian play, and I like that he has continued to find ways into this thread despite Internet troubles at home which would leave him a reasonable excuse to slank off.

The nicest thing I can say about Jack's play thus far is that it has been confusing to me. I don't understand much of anything he has posted with my name in it -- griping that I didn't answer questions, discovering that they were close to pointless questions, needing prodded to actually click the past-game links I provided after he had asked me for scum self-meta himself, and then drawing parallels to the Phenon game to my early treatment of him that can't make sense with sock accounts. He's south of yellow on a rainbow.

*immediately goes meta-spelunking to see if civilian Kyle is an ellipsis abuser*

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:42 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:05 am If I do have a concern about Kyle, it'd be his continued obsession with Made's little Kyle/speedchuck comment. What is the urgency about uncovering that specific mystery?

Well... part of it is definitely that Made decided to make me part of it, by including me as one of the people that would (eventually?) be able to back up his read on Sloonei. I ended up looking back through both of their posts and interactions and in general I just still feel like there's something off about it. for now i think it can be put on the back burner until made drops in.

Reads on Quin, Jack, and I. Go.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:41 am Disagree. Mentioning a player and then saying they are bad is not progression.

Understandable perspective. I don't judge DrWilgy by the accepted laws of physics.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:27 am Gonna disagree with what I’m percieving as the general consensus on Sloonei here. Someone convince me I’m wrong.

I might take you up on that if you can explain why you feel that way.

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:02 pm oh hey guys

most of the people who have posted so far look civ so far, but then most of them are the people who always look civ to me. Sloonei's alternate interpretation of Quin is interesting though and Quin is someone I'm always waffly on.

Made is zany as usual. Not sure what he's on about but I think he's just being Made.

Out of the so-far-civ-reads I think my strongest 3 are Sloonei, Kyle, and Jack. They're safe from my D1 vote at this point unless something changes.

oh and welcome new people! I'm getting tired of reading posts from the same 6-7 people so let's see some thoughts k

I don't care for this stuff.

If I do have a concern about Kyle, it'd be his continued obsession with Made's little Kyle/speedchuck comment. What is the urgency about uncovering that specific mystery?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:56 am GTH town.

It's not that I wouldn't. I probably could have put you somewhere on the scale based on what I'd read, but I couldn't be bothered with the subsequent "why's" I should expect from you this early. Lazy and unforgivable, right?

You pointed out my correction earlier saying it wasn't actually an impression on you. That's false, it's just not an impression directly reflective of your alignment. You also said it was likely I was trying to cause trouble for Kyle by throwing my reverse-read on him into the wind - that's what happens when the person you're trying to bounce ideas off of drops the conversation on you. I'd have talked about it with anyone if they'd said something about it. Do you have anything to say about it?

You're probably town. Did you make any observations or draw conclusions apart from what you mentioned re: Kyle about how people handled me screaming at you?

I would say that Kyle has spent more time discussing mechanics and the night poll than the average player. I think he has sounded quite genuine in that effort though and don't really view him as a premier suspect. I saw one instance of scum Kyle in the sc2 game he played with dunya, and so far I think he looks more like the town version we've seen on The Syndicate to me.

It's rather vague, but I thought Wilgy's suspicion of nutella (Hazelnut) looked authentic. It wasn't explained or thorough, but it had the feel of the sort of Wilgy poke that develops into a Wilgy read.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:58 pm Hazelnut what's wrong?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:36 pm Bad guys are Hazlenut, Mac, and Sloonster.

Dis is de wae.

Sloonei, whaddya think of Jack?

lapluie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:42 am Hello, thanks for asking. Yes its quite well, a lot of chit chat has happend the past 48 hours. Many accusations of here & such, one thing I wanna point out is at speedchuck for their- "Why not" response in voting. isn't a suffice answer to a killing, we gotta be wise on who we are voting, I read a few replies as to why x is voting for x but just bluntly saying "why not" is a dangerous reply especially if we end up killing a town, now is there a real reason? if so would like to hear.

Hi lapluie. To be clear, do you find this behavior by speedchuck suspicious or merely dangerous?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:52 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:31 pm Long Con can have a vote.

Tell me more

Four or five distinct appearances in the game thread, zero things done.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:29 pm it also seems like maybe this was a bad thing? at least now we know..

It doesn't seem like any secrets have been revealed either.

Given the introduction I get the impression mean words are thematic:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:16 am You weak pathetic fools.

Were you expecting a story?

Vote.

Long Con can have a vote.

Oh by the way, Glorfindel, I totally took advantage of that in the Mad Max game and it was lame of me to do that. I never properly apologized. Sorry buddy!

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:58 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:56 pm Glorfindel never lies. He says he's town, I believe him.

. . . is this actually a thing he does, like, for religious or meta reasons? Because that's awesome. And a bit of a handicap as scum.

It has given him trouble before. I think he would sooner adopt a "never claim an alignment in any game at all" strategy or just not play than compromise his values. He's town.

Glorfindel never lies. He says he's town, I believe him.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:22 pm there's emotion in his dialogue with Jack that I don't think would be there if he was bad

This is why I [try to] kill Sloonei and MP when I'm bad. They know how I work.

I acknowledge that some portion of my suspicions of both Quin and Jack reflects their treatment of me. That invites personal bias. So y'all who disagree by all means talk about it.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:15 pm Well ... after that catch up I find myself relatively concerned by Jimmy. I feel Jack is playing very sincerely and am not buying that Jimmy genuinely feels that Jack is bad.

Oh well. We can't agree on every read.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:05 pm I'm so sorry, everyone. I'd totally forgotten I'd signed up for this as I haven't been here in a while. It's wonderful (so far) being back here with you all and it looks like an amazing game. I see we're already at 11 pages so I guess what I'm pleading for is:
A) your patience and understanding as I try to catch up and immerse myself in this game and
B) A clue about how you respond to someone by quoting their post. Somebody asked me a question and when I reply a name keeps appearing and when I press 'Return' it inserts some bizarre stuff in the middle of my post - sorry, again, I've not played since the redesign of the site. Thank Ye

Hi Glorfindel!

That’s the tagging function at work. It happens when you quote a post that features an @ tag. If you find that “@“ in the quoted material an delete in, that will stop happening.