The Syndicate

This game is updated in the Hall of Fame.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:44 pm The biggest flaw in the setup was that I didn’t provide the mafia with an avenue into the role claiming fiesta. Quin had to pull some baloney out of thin air to get by. But all of their roles had standard bad guy abilities with no clear civilian function. This could have made it possible for the civilians to essentially clear everybody mechanically.

I honestly don't think this was a flaw. In a game like this, is the job of the mafia team to have claims ready to go, baloney or not. They may not *clear* themselves (indeed if they do that I would call that a flaw), but they may delay their own lynch. That's all that matters.

I've also come to a new perspective on closed setups with this game, the Socky game, and Hogwarts. Even if the roles are not revealed, I am starting to think the alignments should be (in the OP and/or when a faction is eliminated, or at the least within the roles). Otherwise it's a lot to ask of a civilian faction, and I would assert too much to ask, to figure out which factions they should even be pursuing.

This isn't a criticism of any host, because I have not implemented that policy myself before apart from some roles like FBI agents. I will probably do that in the future.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:01 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:39 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:36 am I think DDL making a fuss over SKs makes him look needlessly suspicious at a crucial time.

You may not be wrong. That's how I felt about you making a fuss over confirmed tracker Mac.

Mafia don't have trackers to detect cops? Get out of here. I know that much.

I may have seen a mafia tracker once in seven years.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:36 am I think DDL making a fuss over SKs makes him look needlessly suspicious at a crucial time.

You may not be wrong. That's how I felt about you making a fuss over confirmed tracker Mac.

DFaraday wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:33 am I think the biggest takeaway here is that if I didn't keep getting hit with additional Mafia powers I'd have been the undisputed civ MVP of this game. 100% prediction rate y'all

Nice thinking with the N2 self-protect. You were aware that the mafia might catch on to your soft claim the way I did.

Really though I think the civilians' greatest blunders in this game came on Days 2 and 3, not the final two. Whatever the reasons, lynching a cop-confirmed civilian with a dead godfather and then lynching the cop himself when there was no counter in the thread -- that's asking to lose.

I do think the credit relating to the bob lynch carried on far too long. At LyLo especially, who cares about that anymore? Everyone got there somehow.

No stones unturned.

This is no criticism. My preferred lynches were Epi then DDL.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:58 pm There's no need to go off on wild speculation. You know someone is killing. If he's the last mafia or the serial killer, WHO GIVES A SHIT? It's the same thing from the civilian perspective, is it not?

I don’t think so. The methods one employs to find a mafioso are often entirely ineffective for a serial killer.

Interactions? Irrelevant, no teammates.

Hunting sincerity? They don’t know who’s bad either.

The only “reliable” evidence available is who was killed.

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:41 pm Oh yeah, the vest claim happened because I suspected JaggedJimmyJay roleblocked me the night nobody died. He made that one cryptic post and I thought if I didn't do something quick he'd ruin me.

Yeah, that was me not wanting to out DFaraday.

I better never hear about Quin's butthole again.

Good game, gang.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:30 pm What if nova is the last scum, claiming indie?

If he's mafia I bet he has a teammate. That's the gambit. Not sure that's where I lean though. His behavior is indy-compatible. It'd explain why his hunt seemed genuine.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:29 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:28 pm What kind of indy are we talking, nova?

The one that has done his duty.

Are you saying you've already met your win condition?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:28 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:28 pm Okay so nova claimed indie. He's either mafia or indie then. Solve accordingly.

That sure was a pretty chart you made.

You know why I'm so great? I spent 2-some hours on that shit and don't even care.

What kind of indy are we talking, nova?

Okay so nova claimed indie. He's either mafia or indie then. Solve accordingly.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:24 pm JJJ, you watched Mac Night 1 and then me Night 2? Did anything happen for you to see Night 1?

Nothing.

Mac hit you N2.

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention], a quick argument on vigilantes for you to marinate on (whether your claim here is true or not):

Apart from eliminating a suspect with your role, which is a great benefit even if it's a civilian, there's an added gain that is often not considered: shooting someone apart from the mafia team and claiming it as a vigilante shot are difficult to dispute. It enables clarity in one's read of you.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:18 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:15 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:14 pm I'll let you figure it out

It seems considerably more likely that I'll just lynch you after failing to operate my crystal ball.

It'd be a waste tbh. I don't have any incentive to fight it anymore though, so I'm good with it.

This sounds rather independent?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:18 pm I think I left enough little hints.

Show them to me.

You don't necessarily have to claim [mention]novaselinenever[/mention], but your tight lips still demand some explanation. You're not one of the most powerful roles (e.g. cop, vigilante, doctor), so?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:14 pm I'll let you figure it out

It seems considerably more likely that I'll just lynch you after failing to operate my crystal ball.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:07 pm If only one mafioso remains, I ignore my analyses earlier and then probably look to nova's lack of any claim as the glaring problem.

Did he give a reason why he didn't claim? I'm sorry I'm not looking these things up myself. I'm doing a hundred things at once. Well, being awesome is one of those things, so I'm doing 99 things at once.

I'm not sure he has been pressed on the matter.

[mention]novaselinenever[/mention], you're pressed.

If only one mafioso remains, I ignore my analyses earlier and then probably look to nova's lack of any claim as the glaring problem.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:01 pm I'm trying to sort out something Mac was saying about you and him not meshing night action-wise.

He misunderstood me by thinking I'd targeted him N2, which would be illegal as a double-target. I targeted you.

Only claimless individual remaining is nova, I believe.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:58 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:56 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:55 pm What is Mac's claim again?

Tracker.

An ordinary "I pick Player A, and player A targets player B, and then I see Player A targeted Player B" tracker?

Yes. He says these were his actions:

N1: Track JJJ (targeted Mac) -- I affirm this.
N2: Track Epignosis (targeted Mac)

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:55 pm What is Mac's claim again?

Tracker.

[mention]Epignosis[/mention], if Colin is telling the truth then who is the final mafioso?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:25 pm I do. If the mafia has a "godfather" slash "forger" (which I still apparently don't know what that is), and we know there's a cop (who apparently wasn't told there was a godfather slash forger), then three mafia to nine civilians doesn't make sense to me.

Two is now moot.

I believe there is a minuscule chance that this game opened at 10 vs. 2, and I cannot imagine you believe it. A two-man mafia team is plausible, but that implies the presence of independent(s). This civilian team does not appear to lack strength in its roles.

Sloonei explained the forger. It's a good ability, but it isn't ruinous.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:44 pm Nobody else seems to think I should use my shot.

Nobody said that.

People answer this fecking query please. Should Colin use his vigilante shot tonight or not? Here are some scenarios.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:10 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:01 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:47 pm Here's where JJJ's sciency-schmiency chart fails sciency-schmiency class:

"Colin might be a vigilante."

Congratulations. You have just unlocked the secret of Castle Rackrent. Here's three bucks. Buy yourself a Zima. You've earned it.

You think Colin is bad. Who else is bad?

Why must there be three?

1) Do you think we opened at 10 vs. 2?
2) If not, who is bad and who is independent?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:31 am I'm confident sabie is bad.

I'll continue with my charts, thanks.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:47 pm Here's where JJJ's sciency-schmiency chart fails sciency-schmiency class:

"Colin might be a vigilante."

Congratulations. You have just unlocked the secret of Castle Rackrent. Here's three bucks. Buy yourself a Zima. You've earned it.

You think Colin is bad. Who else is bad?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:33 pm The mafia team is colonialbob, Epignosis, and Dragon D. Luffy.

I didn't read any of this yet except the last part.

You are bad.

In one sense or the other.

Weak. Die.

Colin:
3 Yellow
2 Orange
1 Red

DFaraday:
2 Green
4 Yellow

DDL:
3 Yellow
1 Orange
2 Red

Epignosis:
2 Green
1 Yellow
2 Orange
1 Red

MacDougall:
2 Green
4 Yellow

nova:
3 Yellow
3 Orange

Quin:
6 Yellow

Epignosis and DDL look the worst at face value consistently. Colin might be a vigilante. DDL and Epi look very much like teammates.

Because they are. The mafia team is colonialbob, Epignosis, and Dragon D. Luffy.

Please go win if I die.

Quin and nova

~ Quin accuses nova of being a vegetarian on D1 / Expanded
~ Quin includes nova in his D2 POE
~ nova likes Quin for his bob vote on N1.

Compatibility: There's less to talk about than I figured. Whatever. Yellow

Mac and Quin

~ Mac appreciates the warmth of Quin's Aussie butthole on D0.
~ Mac calls Quin 90% town on D1.
~ Still a fan on N1. This read never changes.
~ Quin has no idea about Mac on D1.
~ Quin questions Mac's love for the warmth of his Aussie butthole.

Compatibility: Technically sure. It's not much, and Mac has been his teammate's best friend before. Judge them at face value. Yellow

Mac and nova

~ No read from Mac on D0 (no posts)
~ Mac gives him a 50% meh on D1.
~ Mac supports my D1 suspicion of nova.
~ Mac's top N1 suspect is nova.
~ They disagree on N1 about DDL.
~ Mac thinks nova might have TMI on DDL.
~ Still Mac's top suspect on N2 / Expanded
~ Mac voted nova on D3 before eventually going with leetic.
~ nova initially doesn't like Mac
~ nova thinks Ma looks the best on N1.
~ don't worry

Compatibility: I don't really see it, but it's unclear. Yellow

Epignosis and Quin

~ Epi calls Quin good pn D1 / Repeated
~ Epi is ambivalent on Quin on D3.
~ Quin gives Epignosis civilian credit for a stupid-ass reason on D0 / His explanation
~ Quin didn't include Epi in his POE.

Compatibility: I guess so. Meh. Yellow

Epignosis and novaselinenever

~ Epi is highly critical of nova on N2.
~ Epi is ambivalent on nova on D3.
~ Epi saying some bullshit about his leetic vote over nova.
~ nova likes Epi's tone on D1.
~ nova still likes Epi on N1.
~ nova responds pretty calmly and carelessly to Epi's N1 beefs.
~ nova lists Epi among three potential suspects after leetic.
~ nova stood in the way of my assertion that Epi slipped.

Compatibility: Epi's suspicion had little follow-through. nova was his pal. It's pretty plausible. Orange

Epignosis and Mac

~ Anchorman gifs. Bob said this is not w/w.
~ Epi calls Mac a good nacho on D1 / Expanded
~ Epi is supportive of Mac in review of bob. Who wasn't.
~ Epi suggests that a mafioso Mac would be better served letting himself die instead of bob.
~ Epi gave Mac the microphone.
~ Mac likes Epi and I on Day 0 / Repeated.
~ Mac includes Epi in the POE, but weakly on N1.
~ Mac has suspicions of dunya and Epi in cahoots on N1.
~ Mac suspect Epi had a clear reason to kill dunya.
~ Mac calls Epi 45% civilian on D2.
~ Mac is quite displeased with Epi on N2.
~ Mac hates Epi's early defenses of him.

Compatibility: Not really. Mac's progression is very authentic, and a mafioso Epi looks like he's in buddytown. Green

DDL and Quin

~ DDL is going with Genuquin on D1 / Expanded
~ DDL calls Quin fantastic but less so on N1.
~ DDL still loves Quin in trustfall
~ DDL calls Quin 99% town on D3 for his claim.
~ Quin isn't impressed with DDL on D1.
~ Quin includes DDL in his POE on D2.
~ Quin is comfortable with a rey vote and not a DDL vote on D2.

Compatibility: The two treat one another quite differently and it looks uncoordinated to me. I'll be safe. Yellow

DDL and nova

~ DDL excludes nova from his discussion of low-posters, though he wants to lynch them all.
~ DDL reviewed the votes and EOD1, and determined nova isn't helping but could just be wrong. Bleh.
~ DDL is not sold by nova in trustfall.
~ DDL places nova with Epi on his N2 scum team.
~ DDL nova in D3 before the leetic wagon took off.
~ Somewhat softball bickering between the two during the leetic lynch.
~ DDL includes nova as a vig target
~ nova can't read DDL
~ nova doesn't like sabie's DDL suspicions
~ nova still kind of likes DDL on N1 / Attributed to his defense of Mac
~ nova is less pleased with DDL's EOD2
~ DDL was one of nova's weakest reads in the trustfall.

Compatibility: It doesn't scream at me, but it does them no favors either. I could see it. Orange

DDL and Mac

~ DDL likes Mac but is trying not to be biased due to defense. He agrees with Mac's dunya case.
~ DDL waffles around on Mac for a paragraph that goes nowhere.
~ DDL gets a civilian vibe on Mac but with trepidation. Always the disclaimer. D1.
~ DDL hates the Mac lynch. This measures oddly against the prior comments. He claimed on N1 it was about chaos.
~ DDL believes in Mac after trustfall.
~ Mac initially supports DDL against bob.
~ Mac reads DDL as a civilian on D1. He's quite confident.
~ That drops to 40% town.
~ One of Mac's five scum candidates N1 / Second worst.
~ Mac reinforced his theory of DDL TMI in response to nova comments.
~ Mac supports nova's point against DDL here.
~ Mac asserts DDL and leetic are using a fake claim to lure out the real cop.

Compatibility: Eh. A lot of it looks bad, but it's more DDL on his own than as a collaborator with Mac. Yellow

DDL and Epignosis

~ DDL agrees with Epi on DF, says he's alright, and validates bob's anti-w/w comment.
~ DDL says Epi is leaning bad on N1 for having ignored the bob case.
~ DDL gives Epi a well fuck off then.
~ DDL is not impressed with Epi after trustfall.
~ DDL validated one of my concerns with Epi on D2.
~ DDL is not huge on suspecting Epi on D2. Ew.
~ DDL generates a two-man team of nova and Epi on N2 at my request.
~ DDL is affirmed in his disbelief of leetic via Epi's point on D3.
~ DDL includes Epi as a vigilante target for Colin.
~ Epi says DDL and dunya aren't bad together on D0.
~ Epi has a mild suspicion of DDL, but "nothing worth voting him over". Ew.
~ Epi gives DDL a civilian point after reviewing bob's corpse / Promptly thereafter he shat on DDL's vote analysis over a few posts.
~ Epi doesn't believe DDL is bad on D3.

Comaptibility: Sure. Suspicions are exchanged, but they are fucking weak on both sides. Neither of them does anything with it. Red

DF and Quin

~ The two engage in some neutral chatter about Epi and Mac on D1.
~ Quin follows Epi in a vote for DF on D1 / He later suggested it was a reactionary tactic.
~ Quin leaves DF out of his POE after trustfall.

Compatibility: Barely. Nothing much to discuss. Yellow

DF and nova

~ DF never mentioned nova.
~ nova likes DF on D1.
~ nova is looking at DF as a suspect on N1 / Again on N2, each time in little groupings of suspects.
~ nova credits DF for the soft claim in his trustfall.

Compatibility: Technically sure. It's mostly inconsequential stuff. Yellow

DF and Mac

~ Banter
~ DF doesn't think Mac looks as bad as Epi for his treatment of my mechanics post. He later reversed his view of the two.
~ DF votes Mac on D1, suggesting he didn't do anything to answer dunya's accusations.
~ DF disagrees with Mac's perspective of the night kill.
~ Mac calls DF suspicious on D0.
~ Mac calls DF 70% town on D1.
~ Mac calls DF one of four scum candidates on N1, and added rey later / reiterated here
~ Mac likes DF's tone on D2 for 55% town points.
~ Mac asks DF if he's a cop.

Compatibility: Nah. If DF is a mafioso, then I think he was trying to mislynch Mac. Green

DF and Epignosis

~ 43 results for "Epi" in DF's 16 posts. Edit: actually it's a lot of repetition
~ DF suspects Epi for his response to my mechanics post on D1.
~ Banter
~ Epi called DF his top suspect on D1.
~ Epi agreed with my positive reaction to DF's claim on D2.
~ Epi believes DF is not bad, but waiting and seeing, on D3.

Compatibility: Nah. I think Epi would have been happy to lynch DF on D1. Green