The Syndicate

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2019 10:28 am Why you got shoot the players I wanted to protect the NIGHT AFTER I protected them? JaggedJimmyJay Nutella MacDougall

We definitely had to be evasive with all of our kill choices. We could never take the most obvious options (until the actions were expired on Night 5).

The mafia didn’t kill me because they loved me like a brother

Half of our game here was linking ourselves to the wrong people on purpose. At the end of Day 5 when people were tacking RDW with nutella and I, I was just like excellent, my pretties

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 4:11 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 12:05 pm N1: Jay is jked and there’s no kill
D6: Jay is not being lynched for some reason.

Gg mafia. You earned it.

He was also doctor protected, but yeah, I should have revisited it. Wasn't there also a roleblocker in the game somewhere, but they didn't claim, or I don't remember them claiming. oops

That was Ultra.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 2:06 pm Now seriously, one thing I do is make sure I'm paranoid of you every time I see you in a game. Not enough to lynch you, but I keep trying to feel your gameplay and look for signs of your civiness. The idea is that since we let you be the town leader every time, I gotta make sure that doesn't get used against us.

I usually see those signs, but it also means I also notice whenever something is off.

The real challenge is distinguishing when the "off" is alignment related to when it's not (i. e. Fire Emblem).

"Feel" is a good word to use when making that judgment. It's something that I think the people who both know me best and also play the most like I play (Sloonei and MP) know better than others -- there's an emotional element of play that may not be tangible, but it's clear when it's missing. It's the most difficult thing to replicate. I barely even tried in this game, but if it had been populated by more people who know me well I'd have definitely needed a different approach.

Granted there were a couple cases where I led or tied the tally and survived though (GOC 2015 and GY!BE).

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 12:05 pm D6: Jay is not being lynched for some reason.

If there's anything I do well it's avoid lynches.

Tree Mafia (civilian)
Mountain Mafia (mafia)
Fire Emblem (civilian)

I believe that's it for my 46 games on The Syndicate.

Hall of Fame is updated apart from the spreadsheet, which I'll get to shortly.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2019 1:17 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:55 pm I'm actually happy that Jay won. He needed that boost given his streak. I mean that in all sincerity. I realize he was bad, but so what- he's a good player.

That's very nice of you. @JaggedJimmyJay update the hall of fame please I want to look at my lead.

Oh yeah. Alrighty.

Yep! Blocked completely.

I really prefer not to bus, but sometimes one must react to the game at hand.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:55 pm I'm actually happy that Jay won. He needed that boost given his streak. I mean that in all sincerity. I realize he was bad, but so what- he's a good player.

We've both had a shit go of it in recent memory. Feels good to get off the schnide a bit.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:38 pm Sounds impossible.

It's very hard and nigh impossible to get them all in every game. Reads accuracy is pretty finicky even for the most intuitive players. Some of it though translates to every game, even when your reads aren't on point -- avoiding mislynches and facilitating a good climate don't require one to be "on" -- they just require strong effort.

I also wanted to get Night-1-kill vengeance on Jack for Shockheaded Peter.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:17 pm I had Jay as Town past N2 'cause I was role-cop and copped him as Voyeur. I figured if he performed the kill, it'd have been spiked as strongman, so the failed kill wasn't him getting blocked rather him getting protected.

I guess he didn't modify it on N1

Yup. We targeted Jack on N1 thinking it was a high-productivity kill with less likelihood of being protected. But then I got jailed instead of Jack. So.

I think it is one of the most powerful roles in the game. It just has immense swing depending upon the shot. I was legitimately annoyed when the N3 vigilante didn't kill another civilian for us.

I love being a vigilante. Such power. In the absence of a better idea I usually just shoot a lurker. It can be a great weapon though to use against someone who is good at getting out of lynches. I'm glad DDL wasn't a vigilante.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 11:00 pm Mafia also won the first preliminary game, though I believe 100% of that can be attributed to nutella's early death.

Thank you for the reminder.

[mention]nutella[/mention] did an awesome job representing The Syndicate in her game on MU. Her team didn't fare well, but that's because they lost her to a mafia team that couldn't handle her on Night 2. She is a firecracker of a civilian, and her style is one that I struggle mightily to contain if I am bad. No read she makes can be taken as gospel because of her capacity to see the other side of the matter, and it makes her entirely unpredictable. Mafia teams like to know what to expect. It's impossible with nutella, and they shot her for it.

Y'all are raising good points about the composition of an ideal civilian. I have a five-pronged image now:

1) Make good reads / have good instincts (the dunyas and Macs)

2) Pursue those reads in such a manner that others will be compelled to follow (the Jays and Goldens)

3) Avoid the noose (the Epis)

4) Promote a thread climate conducive to effective hunting (the Slooneis and MPs)

5) Know when to play the role of the follower (numerous)

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:52 pm I also think that the build, at least in this sites meta, favoured us. No night chat was a big deal.

I have mixed feelings. On balance, I don't like the setup. Randomizing alignments to this set of roles means that the game can be super skewed in either direction depending upon the dice.

In our case, I think the mafia team had one significant disadvantage: we couldn't kill anyone we wanted to kill until Night 5. Two jailers, two doctors, one JOAT, two trackers, and two watchers -- holy hell we had to tip toe around every damned thing to get anything done.

Locked nights were a huge advantage for us though. Just imagine if DDL had been able to rip us a new asshole on Night 5 before we killed him. That made a big difference in this game.

Best Mafioso Team socky is going to be a bloodbath.

Yes, I am absolutely plugging my own team.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:45 pm The Mafia played on this site is some of the most competitive on the Internet. People come here to get better. I hope this community takes pride in that.

I thought they came for Wilgy's cactus ass.

Tourism is also on the rise.

Mac did a great job to pivot completely away from Steely Dan and do everything here in a way that can be traced to nothing but the civilian we all know and love.

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:44 pm I felt bad getting lynched D1 especially because I didn't give it my best effort - I could have saved my own ass but I wasn't in a great mood that day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Playing scum for me is very exhausting but also very rewarding so my performance really depends on my mindset.

But at least my interactions were obscure enough to lead to a couple of mislynches.

Continue to play with us! I look forward to seeing the civilian side of Ultra, for one thing.

The Mafia played on this site is some of the most competitive on the Internet. People come here to get better. I hope this community takes pride in that.

[mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention], I'm sorry for the way this one ended. I'm so glad we got to play a game together again though. You always make games better.

[mention]Luxurious[/mention], my greatest lamentation in this game was that I didn't get to be on your team.

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:39 pm Fantastic performance by the rest of my team

Another scum win under my belt zehaha

And a win earned, sir. The grief you gave me on Day 1 made a difference.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:33 pm Trying to suspect Jay or Nutella was legitimately annoying. I did not enjoy it.

I think I benefited some from that Bulbagarden game we played in. Despite the grisly serial killer end, it got me freshened up for a better run as a mafioso in this one. I really don't get opportunities to be a bad guy very often. The randomizers want me to be good.

Thanks again to [mention]nutella[/mention], [mention]MacDougall[/mention], and [mention]Ultra[/mention] for giving a great effort and securing this sucker. I've never had a better set of mafia teammates.

This will probably be my last game for quite a while.

Thanks for a great game, Sloonei.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:28 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:24 pm @Sloonei can we publicize scumchat as well?

I was gonna ask if you guys are okay with that. You're the ones who were posting in it, for the most part. It's up to you whether that gets published or not.

I don't object.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:21 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:19 pm I also think that if I do too good a job matching my civilian meta, it can hurt the rest of my team. I don't want the thread to catch fire. I want it to look like I want it to catch fire, perhaps.

Yeah lol. You were so incredibly meticulous about making it look like you were actively discussing while actually not stoking activity and timing things so that the thread wouldn't get too excited about anything. So calculated.

Every single minute was counted and calculated.

Y'all saw me plotting every corner of this thread in the mafia chat so that it would form in the image I desired. I'm a nerd.

Objective of a mafioso:

Lynch civilians

Not an objective of a mafioso:

Look like civilian self

I've been following this doctrine for years.

I also think that if I do too good a job matching my civilian meta, it can hurt the rest of my team. I don't want the thread to catch fire. I want it to look like I want it to catch fire, perhaps.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

This is where meta reading is handy. To an unfamiliar observer, he looks like the town leader. To folks who've played with him before, his play was shortsighted and erratic. He ignored things he wouldn't ordinarily ignore and focused on things he would not normally care about.

I absolutely capitalized on the fact that this game was populated by many people who don't know me as well.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 pm I don't understand what was scummy about Jay. Dude provided all these big posts on player interactions and whatnot(albeit, didn't really lead anywhere), actually tried being a leader to some extent and was trying to game solve. The man was straight up powerwolfing. He was busting his ass to become a deep wolf. I'm surprised he didn't get that privilege.

Believe it or not, what you saw in this game was about 60-70% of what you'd see from me in my civilian body. I feel that I have one of the most difficult civilian metas to match on the entire Internet, and for that reason I often don't even try -- I do enough to stay alive.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:56 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.

The only reason for those lynches being avoided was that I viewed as a scummy town, someone too scummy to be a wolf. What's there to be proud of in there? All of my reads were wrong and I literally town read the entire mafia squad. Even Ultra I leaned more on civ than scum. Kept pushing for the wrong ppl, never voted for a single scum and my play was detrimental and a distraction to town.

There is nothing respectable or to be proud of in my entire play this game.

While some people may have felt that way, there's a reason they ended up at "too scummy to be scum" instead of just "scum". It was because you never failed to fight for yourself, and you sounded authentic in the effort to do that. And that authenticity outweighed the suspicions people had of you for various little things.

It might not feel like it right now, but trust me: there's more to good town play than just making good reads. Indeed, many townies who make great reads don't actually contribute anything of substance because they don't pursue those reads with any effort. In my opinion, there are three core elements to playing a strong civilian game of Mafia (in no particular order):

1) Make good reads

2) Don't get lynched

3) Be a leader who promotes an environment conducive to productive hunting

You had a bad outing for #1. That happens to everyone. You nailed #2, and I think you were very much on target for #3. You did good things in this game.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:55 pm I have a feeling many of the corpses and neutral observers knew that I was bad. I definitely played this one to my audience -- a game filled with newcomers. To people who don't know me, Diet Supertown Jimmy is still a considerable effort.

dead/spectator chat was tearing its hair out when no one was touching you at the end.

You have no idea how much pleasure this brings me. Everyone can have that right friggin' back after my civilian games this year.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:55 pm I can hang with JJJ.

JJJ can't hang with me.

Night 2 payback for Vanilla Mafia, punk.

Until DDL we exclusively killed people who trusted me at the time of their deaths.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:51 pm They really did bus each other.

It didn't go your way in the end, but you played a super respectable game my dude. You faced suspicion every phase of this game and you were never lynched. That's no easy feat, and you should be proud of it.

I have a feeling many of the corpses and neutral observers knew that I was bad. I definitely played this one to my audience -- a game filled with newcomers. To people who don't know me, Diet Supertown Jimmy is still a considerable effort.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2019 9:50 pm DDL you were amazing.

Fa 'sho. Half of my strategy across the latter half of this game was be just good enough to get around DDL. It was very frustrating.

Great game everyone. I'm so glad we got to have so many new faces for this game, and I hope to continue to see y'all around The Syndicate. You brighten the place.

LOCKED

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:53 pm but speedy saying "to lynch jay if he dies" sounds more like a plea to jay that jay if town should not be voting him?!?!? But I wish I knew them better.

That really doesn't mean anything to me. I've seen mafia members make leave parting ultimatums like that more than once.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:42 pm jay's emotes worry me, can you be less happy 'cause I feel nervous..

Here's an emoji depicting how I feel about hearing about emojis at EOD5.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:37 pm When I close my eyes and feel RDW I feel emptiness and apprehension.

When I close my eyes and feel speedchuck I feel all that is good in the world. The laughter of children etc. etc.

Oh, well in that case

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2019 6:30 pm Jay: "Do I bus him now? But both me and nutella have defended him. That might lose us the game. Owner and Wilgy are around, they could still flip this for us. And maybe RDW will show up. If we win this lynch there's no way this town can win that 4v3".

I'm considering the scenario in front of me and trying to make the best decision I can. I don't give a shit about any of this.

I'll acknowledge too that his vote still being where it is at 34 minutes to the deadline is whacke