The Syndicate

@Jackofhearts2005 when did you get your town ID on me?

Oh dear. Fixed.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:30 pm
sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:28 pm Alright cool, I can die happy now

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine
Why Quin? Do you have anything to say about the current events?

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:28 pm Alright cool, I can die happy now

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine

[VOTE: Why Quin? Do you have anything to say about the current events?] aubergine

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:25 pm SLOONEI YOU HAVE AVOIDED MY QUESTION TWICE NOW EVEN WHEN I PINGED YOU. WTF MAN????

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

You have had over an hour to answer

Stop dodging

Right here. And two cops have ID'd me as town since you asked me this.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:25 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:24 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:22 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:21 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:19 pm How in every game do I wind up in the position of trying to convince people that a person who is bad is bad and then they don't believe me and then we lose because they dont believe me lol how
Maybe you should work on convincing us rather than making pleading statements like this. I'm listening. Sell me on the case.
The case is "Jack is bad please lynch him I'm very smart and very good at this game and if you don't believe me check out Firefly and that one LC game A World Apart I think it was and the five million other games I called out the baddies and nobody believed me and we lost lol this is fun"
No thanks then.
You're either bad with Jack or you deserve to lose.

Dude, just yelling at people to listen to you doesn't work when you're not saying anything else. Work me through your process. How did you arrive at this conclusion? I'm not just gonna blindly follow you because you act authoritative. You floo'd with Jack and some things happened. What were those things? Why do they make him bad?

We've been given very few details, from either of you, since all this was revealed.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:22 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:21 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:19 pm How in every game do I wind up in the position of trying to convince people that a person who is bad is bad and then they don't believe me and then we lose because they dont believe me lol how
Maybe you should work on convincing us rather than making pleading statements like this. I'm listening. Sell me on the case.
The case is "Jack is bad please lynch him I'm very smart and very good at this game and if you don't believe me check out Firefly and that one LC game A World Apart I think it was and the five million other games I called out the baddies and nobody believed me and we lost lol this is fun"

No thanks then.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:22 pm My brain is very confused by being convinced that Sloobei is scum and also agreeing with him re: Jack

Jack and luna say they've ID'd me as town, clearly they both can't be wrong.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:19 pm How in every game do I wind up in the position of trying to convince people that a person who is bad is bad and then they don't believe me and then we lose because they dont believe me lol how

Maybe you should work on convincing us rather than making pleading statements like this. I'm listening. Sell me on the case.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:17 pm

I hear you loud and clear. I don't find it to be definitive. Are you telling us everything?

juliets
nutella
lunalee
DharmaHelper
Jack
Quin
timmer
Poutanko
Macdougall
karavalenge
Colin
Sprityo

@Jackofhearts2005 care to share your side of this story in more detail?

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:11 pm My gut reaction is that if one of our cops is lying, it's poutanko. I'm not sure I think any of our cops are lying, but luna's claim is batshit insane if she's bad, and Jack's behavior, now that it's been explained, seems to make perfect sense if he's a cop trying to lay low.
poutanko's claim was proven FALSE. That puts poutanko as the weak cop link, for me. But I'm not voting for any of them. My vote stays on sprit and I'm getting back to my job.

The circumstances of poutanko's claim are also the closest to dubious of the three. She was not in danger, and neither was her supposed town clear (Colin). She came out, somewhat abruptly, to condemn speedchuck when skepticism was mounting around his watcher claim.

I'm still hesitant to say that Poutanko is a liar outright, but if one of our cops is lying it's her.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:10 pm
timmer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:09 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:06 pm "I'm not Jack's teammate I'm just voting to save him while ignoring the confirmed civ telling me he's bad" Wow ok Timmer great point.
Who is a confirmed civ?
Me lol.

Says the guy who wasn't even cleared by two different cops.

My gut reaction is that if one of our cops is lying, it's poutanko. I'm not sure I think any of our cops are lying, but luna's claim is batshit insane if she's bad, and Jack's behavior, now that it's been explained, seems to make perfect sense if he's a cop trying to lay low.

Jack has been speaking in a nonsensical code.

DH, it's pretty important (to me at least) that you tell us what happened in detail. It's going to take more than scraps and fragments to convince me to vote for Jack.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:00 pm
timmer wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:58 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:58 pm Timmer is Jack's partner
Excuse me? Because I'm asking for your proof of Jack's badness?
I told you he fucked up in Flooville and tried to Long Con me with talks of "Oh I'm a cop and such and such and this and that" and with Luna and Pountanko both in-thread claiming cops, I took a real hard think and was like "Wait a minute, Jack is bad."

To be clear: He claimed cop, but then didn't tell you what his IDs were?

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:59 pm God damn it ever since sloonei kept saying "tell me why" that backstreet boys song has been stuck in my head

If it helps, that's exactly what I was going for.

@Jackofhearts2005 you got something to say for yourself, young man?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:52 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:51 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:49 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:48 pm He's bad just do it.
Not until you tell me why.
Because I seriously doubt there are 3 civ cops and the shit he told me in Flooville does not track with what the other two cops have said.
What did Jack say?
He said "If Sloonei keeps asking silly questions with less than an hour to go on the lynch he's gonna get lynched instead of me, Jack, the bad guy."

Good thing we have two hours left. Now tell me what you're talking about.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:49 pm
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:48 pm He's bad just do it.
Not until you tell me why.
Because I seriously doubt there are 3 civ cops and the shit he told me in Flooville does not track with what the other two cops have said.

What did Jack say?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:48 pm He's bad just do it.

Not until you tell me why.

Does anyone else feel like doing this?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:34 pm Operation trustfall:

Colin: poutanko ID'd him as town
DH: Loads of posts and I've never had the sense that he's lying or hiding anything. Allegedly caught Long Con
Jack: Tone these last few days has been helpful and authentic
juliets: Glorfindel, plus she's been one of the most active scum hunters in the thread since she came back
kara: First (or one of their very first) game(s) of mafia. Actions align with what I'd expect from a new civilian
luna: INH went after her hard. Just stuck her neck out to save me.
Mac: Lots of posts, some emotion and eagerness.
nutella: Colossal effort, has been one of the dominating presences in the thread all game.
poutanko: Claimed cop on Day 4.
Quin: Patented GenuQuin attitude. I have trouble beliving Day 4 plays out the way it did if Quin isn't town.
sprityo: He's been too inactive to be scum.
timmer: claimed vigilante.

@anyone else

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:44 pm Wait a minute everyone I just put something together vote Jack with me you'll thank me later I promise.

Tell me why.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:41 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:40 pm I'm gonna stress again that Luna only makes sense as scum if she's my partner, and that luna and I make no sense as partners.
Partners like she came up with a bogus Divination list to clear you last second type of partners or some kind of different partners lol

I just explained this to you directly.

If I am scum, I scum-slipped and told you all that there are only 2 of us left.
Luna has been under no pressure since Day 2 because of the way INH treated her. No one was looking at her today.
Until she sticks her neck out to save me.
If I am scum, and luna is scum, she just sacrificed any chance our team has at winning the game to have a chance at preserving my life for one more phase.

That'd stupid. Anyone who votes for Luna is asserting that she is stupid and, by extension, that I am stupid too. Luna is not stupid.

I'm gonna stress again that Luna only makes sense as scum if she's my partner, and that luna and I make no sense as partners.

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:30 pm @Sloonei can you answer my question?

Do you think hufflepuff has mafia in it?

It's possible. I'm not and have never been operating under the assumption that DDL packed one scum neatly into each house.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:31 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:28 pm It's probably because I have the privilege of knowing my alignment, but Luna makes no sense as scum to me. She was under no pressure at all when she claimed. If she has a reason for claiming, it's because she doesn't want me to be lynched. If she's scum, that makes no sense.

Which, I guess, is to say that you need to suspect Luna and me as a pair. And remember that there's only two bad guys left, I told you all so.
"This makes no sense unless we're both bad Which we could be because there's only two bad guys left lol"

Uh did I slip- into a coma

I'm saying it makes no sense in any universe because why in the hell would Luna, allegedly my only partner remaining, jump into three lanes of traffic to save me from the possibility of a lynch when she's in the clear?

Operation trustfall:

Colin: poutanko ID'd him as town
DH: Loads of posts and I've never had the sense that he's lying or hiding anything. Allegedly caught Long Con
Jack: Tone these last few days has been helpful and authentic
juliets: Glorfindel, plus she's been one of the most active scum hunters in the thread since she came back
kara: First (or one of their very first) game(s) of mafia. Actions align with what I'd expect from a new civilian
luna: INH went after her hard. Just stuck her neck out to save me.
Mac: Lots of posts, some emotion and eagerness.
nutella: Colossal effort, has been one of the dominating presences in the thread all game.
poutanko: Claimed cop on Day 4.
Quin: Patented GenuQuin attitude. I have trouble beliving Day 4 plays out the way it did if Quin isn't town.
sprityo: He's been too inactive to be scum.
timmer: claimed vigilante.

It's probably because I have the privilege of knowing my alignment, but Luna makes no sense as scum to me. She was under no pressure at all when she claimed. If she has a reason for claiming, it's because she doesn't want me to be lynched. If she's scum, that makes no sense.

Which, I guess, is to say that you need to suspect Luna and me as a pair. And remember that there's only two bad guys left, I told you all so.

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:21 pm My connection is poor and I don’t have reasons, I’m useless to the exercise so I’ll pass

Linki: youre doing the lords work dunya

You just need to make one post

@everyone: i’d like to an exercise with all of you. This involves going down the list of players and stating the strongest reason you have for town reading each player. The point of the exercise is that you produce a town read on everybody, so no skipping around because you suspect a certain person. It only works if everyone gets a town read.

Who’s down?

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:16 pm Epi did die at a weird time.

Linki: Luna flipping scum shows sloon is likely bad

Town flip means he’s confirmed town. Unless there’s reveal shenanigans on lynches?

Linki2: something about Speedchuck night actions contradicting Quine night action and neither refused to change their stance saying the other is lying, Speedchuck flipped town. I don’t think any items or abilities were figured out to make it make sense either

For sure on the last bit. I’ve suspended my efforts to solve that.

sprityo wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:10 pm I’m still operating under that there was a blatant controversy that is unsolved still

Which is?

Colin, it’s that you aren’t interested in engaging with me because you suspect me that bothers me most of all. It suggests that your read is final and that you don’t want to talk about why that’s the case. It’s bullshit and unhelpful and I don’t like it. If you’re a civilian you should want to talk about your reads.

But whatever. This is no longer helping and I want hs to be able to look at other options. I still town read luna. I’m interested in her Mac vote.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:57 pm I'm not buying Luna's claim for the simple reason that her targets are shit. [VOTE: luna] aubergine

So INH bussed her?

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:43 pm
Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:39 pm Okay listen up. I have use of the divination spell and here are my results:
N1 - Owner/Sloonei TOWN
N2 - Epi TOWN
N3 - used another ability
N4 - DharmaHelper TOWN

I didn't want to claim already. But it's day 5 and I don't want to knowingly watch a townie get lynched. So @timmer @DharmaHelper @ColinIsCool @Jackofhearts2005 make a better choice and get off Sloonei.

If you need further proof, look at my first rainbow read post. I listed Epi and Owner in dark green, since I had checked them by then.
So do we have consensus on whether Divination can be used in this manner (consecutively)?

I’m able to use wingardium leviosa every night.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:40 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:37 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:31 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:29 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:16 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:48 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:46 pm Sloonei’s putting up a hell of a fight but if he’s not scum I’ll eat G-Man’s dictionary.
You're excessively confident for someone who's not even trying to figure out what's going on.
I don’t know why you keep saying that. I have read every post in this thread, which is more than you can say, and I am very aware of the arguments being put forth. Get outta here with this baseless “Colin isn’t paying attention” shit.
I’m waiting for you to prove it. According to you I haven’t done anything all game. Get out of here with that shit.
No.
Why not?
I don’t mean to say that you’ve done nothing and I think you’ll actually find that’s a misrepresentation of what I did say. To add what I’ve said, though, you’ve mischaracterized most other things I’ve put forth when referring to them and that feels deliberate. We will have to agree to disagree until our alignments are revealed.

No we won’t. My mind can be changed. I am doubting my suspicion of you right now.

My issue is the supposed confidence in your vote, which is paired with a seeming unwillingness to discuss it (which this entire conversation is highlighting again). Your initial accusation was that I’m “doing my best to appear disengaged” and that it’s “an act.” You followed that up by saying I’ve done nothing other than “pop in to say I haven’t read the thread, deflect from Owner arguments, and defend myself.” All of this tells me that you aren’t actually reading my posts too closely. For one, I don’t recall ever deflecting anything about Owner until a moment ago. But more importantly, it ignores all of the things I have had to say, which is a pretty substanital portion of my posts which you’re conveniently not adressing. Sure I’ve defended myself and said that I haven’t read the whole thread. Those are things that have needed to be said in the course of conversation. I’ve said a lot of other more productive things around that.

I’ll repeat myself for clarity: I don’t like the amount of confidence you seem to have in this vote, considering you can’t seem to produce a read about the player you’re voting for. Your read is about something that happened to Owner on Day 1. You are voting for Sloonei on Day 5, and yet your acknowledgment of him is to say he’s done nothing substantial.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:38 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:34 pm For those of you voting Sloonei, please tell me again why you think Owner did not vote TH as self-pres. Why leave it to LC when it would have been so much more understandable if Owner had done it. Just seems like a bad scum move if they are both scum.
I don’t know why Owner did any thing in this game. Why did Owner fabricate a suspicion on D1 if she’s town?

I haven’t spoken for Owner at any point because I’m not them, and I don’t know what this refers to me, but maybe the answer is because that’s what Day 1 is for.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:31 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:29 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:16 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:48 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:46 pm Sloonei’s putting up a hell of a fight but if he’s not scum I’ll eat G-Man’s dictionary.
You're excessively confident for someone who's not even trying to figure out what's going on.
I don’t know why you keep saying that. I have read every post in this thread, which is more than you can say, and I am very aware of the arguments being put forth. Get outta here with this baseless “Colin isn’t paying attention” shit.
I’m waiting for you to prove it. According to you I haven’t done anything all game. Get out of here with that shit.
No.

Why not?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:36 am @Quin @Sloonei

What do you think of my assertion that Colin can only be mafia if Pout is mafia and even then, it requires Pout to play in a needlessly risky fashion?

Furthermore, if this is the case, that’s probably the mafia. Pout and Colin. Your other suspects are all town.

Does this affect your scumread on Colin at all? Is a Pout/Colin scumteam plausible to you?

Anyone else who suspects Colin but is Pout agnostic or pro Pout should answer this question.

I disagree. I’m mostly ignoring night actions and role claims because there’s too many missing pieces and none of it makes sense. I could imagine several reasons why poutanko would receive a false report on colin.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:16 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:48 pm
ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:46 pm Sloonei’s putting up a hell of a fight but if he’s not scum I’ll eat G-Man’s dictionary.
You're excessively confident for someone who's not even trying to figure out what's going on.
I don’t know why you keep saying that. I have read every post in this thread, which is more than you can say, and I am very aware of the arguments being put forth. Get outta here with this baseless “Colin isn’t paying attention” shit.

I’m waiting for you to prove it. According to you I haven’t done anything all game. Get out of here with that shit.

This may be a good time for a game of Operation Trustfall when we have a crowd of people around.

I just realized the "players I'd consider voting for" section might as well read "stranger danger".

My biggest issue with Colin remains is current vote, but I can't deny a little bit of personal bias regarding that. I think it's a messy, low-effort vote and I can't ignore the possibility that it's pre-meditated. But I don't want to get tunnel vision either.

I still don't know if I see scum in kara's posts. They're new to mafia, and apparently know speedchuck IRL, so I don't really question the floo situation all that much. It seems reasonable in this light. They've been kinda quiet and off the radar, but again, that's not something alarming for a first-time player.

Somewhere along the line I saw something from kara that struck me as genuine, but I can't remember what it was off the top of my head. I'd be open to a case on them, but I don't have one and haven't been convinced by one yet.

I've kind of started to ignore a lot of the role claim stuff because there's too many moving parts and pieces that don't seem to fit. As such, I don't know what to make of yesterday's mess and am back to reading Quin on tone alone, which has him as a civilian in my book. If I had any confidence that I could put the pieces of this game together accurately, he'd be a suspect.

sprit's our resident lurker and I've detailed what I don't like about him already.

Poutanko and timmer are two names I keep glancing at. We've all given them a pass for their role claims, but apparently we don't actually have a shred of evidence to confirm either of their claims. Poutanko's ID on speedchuck was wrong and timmer has killed 0 people as a vigilante. My vote was on timmer prior to his role claim. I dropped the suspicion because of the circumstances surrounding it. Maybe it would be worth looking into him again.
I've never played with Poutanko before and was town-reading her prior to the cop claim. I have been wondering if "ballsy cop claim out of nowhere as scum" is something that would be in her playbook. I have no way of knowing right now.

Then that brings me to Mac and Jack. I don't have a solid read on either of them, but have come to a place of tentative trust in each of them for reasons that I can't clearly define. I have not done much digging into either of them. I think of everybody I've just named, I'd be most interested in hearing reads, one way or the other, on these two, because I don't know. On a pure gut level I feel like they both care about solving this game.

The rest (dh, nutella, luna, juliets) are all firm town reads and it would take something wackadoo to change my mind.

This started out as a simple response to nutella's list of names, but then I started calibrating my thoughts on everybody to see how I'd feel about them all. I have a lot of uncertainties. I spent too much of yesterday trying to figure out what was happening with roles and not enough time looking at players. In a more easy-to-consume format:

Players I'd willingly vote for right now:
Colin
sprit

Players I'd consider voting for:
kara
Poutanko

Players I might be convinced to vote for, but am not currently inclined to do so:
Quin
timmer
Mac
Jack

Players I ain't voting for:
dharmahelper
juliets
lunalee
nutella

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:11 am I've gone back and forth in my head on Colin theories so much I just started typing out a post demonstrating why it makes him look like scum and halfway through I realized my argument didn't really make sense and I can't find a reasonable scum motivation for what I was implying him to have been doing. Goddamnit this game is frustrating.

Let's say neither Colin nor me is scum. Who's next?

The best civilian justification I can come up with for that is indifference.

That’s... weird. Weird doesn’t necessarily mean bad.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:01 am Here's a deal sloonei: if you read and educate yourself on colin's lynch-and-rez-me debacle without my help I'll move my vote to him.

how's about you just move it anyway?

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:05 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:59 am
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:58 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 am
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:53 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 am
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am I've played mafia with Sloonei for a long time. In the grand scheme of things, he doesn't have all that much more experience playing with me than you all do, but we've actively forumed on the same site for years. He has a better grasp of my personality far better than anyone else here.

When I said "I don't tell lies when I'm mafia" he should have been the first to support me on that fact, regardless of what he actually thought of my alignment.

He's said nothing and I hate that.
I can't vouch for the validity of this statement. I do not currently intend to vote for you.

Did I scum-slip?
Hell no you didn't.
Thank you.

Is anyone interested in talking about Colin yet?
I stand by my theory Colin wanted to waste a rezz. With the implication of fake flips.
I do not remember this theory. Care to refresh me?
Early on Colin kept talking about wanting to be lynched so he could be rezzed as confirmed town. The logic behind it is counter-productive and wasteful, and it didn't feel genuine as he said it.

Given that Polyjuice potion (a potion that lets you transform into someone else for a time) is such a prominent thing in the series I'm not struggling to see scum Colin wanting to get lynched, flip civ and get rezzed.

I remember this now. I wasn't struck by it in any particular way. "Lynch and rez me" is an easy thing to say for scum who's facing a lynch regardless of whether there's anything behind that plea. The nonchalance of it is a good bet to be enough to turn people away.

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