I know that the Tony voters were me, sabie, Dom, Epi, and Michelle.
I know that G-man and LLD did not vote.
I don’t remember how the other two wagons looked, but the voting record should still exist in the thread.
Return to “An Australian Country Murder Mystery (Day 4)”
I do not follow. Nutella did not vote for Tony, and I find it a bit of a stretch to assume that Jack was killed for the purpose of silencing his criticism of nutella. Plus, we now know that Jack would have been a perfectly viable counterwagon yesterday if nutella was bad and the mafia team wanted to save her. There wouldn’t have been a need for any of them to push to Tony (and no reason not to. My point is that I don’t see how this pair of deaths reflects poorly on nutella specifically). Is there more to this suspicion?sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:39 pm Hmmm the plot thickens. Jack and tony both felt pretty confidently that nutella was bad and now they both have flipped civ. I've been iffy on nutella from the beginning and am inclined to believe maybe tony and jack were right about her. Putting my vote there for now.[VOTE: nutella] aubergine
What do you think Michelle’s alignment is in this game? What do you think nutella’s alignment is?
Why? Can you tell me a time in another game where you caught mafia specifically doing this?Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:02 am Every time I see someone doing in day 1 the math of gow many mislynches are needed I see it as a red flag. Because usually mafia are doing so, to show they care about the game and they focus on it. It's also a way of posting something. Yes I didn't make an essay about it, I posted only raw thoughts. For me writing more is not easy and I am usually catching wolves for the wrong reason. I was wrong this time but also Tony didn't cooperate with me.
I know. That is my point. If Tony was bad and you were good, there would have been no strategic reason for him to try to shade you there. In that moment, you are voting for him and he is in danger of being lynched. He is interacting with you directly. If self-preservation is his top concern, he's going to try to get you to change your vote. Instead he accused you of being bad. That is a good look.The green part: he didn't do this, he was not voting me but I was from the posts understading his first suspect just he didn't move the vote. That means for me he was pleased with the wagons and I had a town read for both Jack and Nutella after their fight.We now know that Tony was not nefariously angling to shade Michelle, and I don't think this was an accurate read in the moment either. Tony is being lynched here, with the counterwagons of Jack and nutella. He's hard defending Jack and advocating for a nutella lynch. There isn't much reason for an evil Tony to start devoting energy to shading and antagonizing a civilian Michelle in this moment. He would be trying to convince her to change her vote.
If I'd been awake I expect that my vote would have moved, but there's no use saying that now. I'm not a fan of Michelle's progression here.
@Michelle why did you feel like Tony's actions were "wolfy"? What specifically made you feel that way about him, and why did you think his agenda was visible? Who are your next suspects going into Day 2?
I believe this. The Day 1 deadline was at an unusual time.This is underexplained indeed and if you notice I posted after the mod posted the lynch, I was still in the idea of interactimg with him.
I didn't notice the Eod is so close. Midday Eod never happened for me. Even European friendly at 11 pm for me are extremely odd because MU has horrible Eods at 2-5 am for me. I thought we still have time to play.
Feel free to ask me any questions you have about my Day 1 vote. I'm not capable of investigating myself and I know what my motivations were anyway.I see the point of asking the lynching wagon about their votes and I saw you posted your own guilt about this mislynch. You passed though quick over it. Isn't the way you are accusing everyone a way to cover your own skin?
I notice sabie seems to support Michelle's point about Tony's lynch math being "sketchy", but I continue to not know why that is the case. Sabie, what did you find suspicious about Tony counting the number of mislynches? And how does this lynch change the way you see Jack and nutella, if at all?sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:33 am I have suspicions on all three of the people with votes. In looking through Tony's posts a lot of his focus is on jack. He makes it a point to say "if I'm nightkilled jack is scum" and that he needs a few days to figure him out subtle ways of saying dont lynch me im town without actually saying it. When he was mafia in the past his main focus of discussion was his own teammates so if they got killed off he could be like see I'm not bad. Ive seen jack do this as well. Also his post making it a point to say how many mislynches we can have was a little sketchy. I see a lot of fair points on him and he hasnt done much to counteract these points.
Jack I've expressed my suspicion on him. There's a fair amount of back and forth discussion on him but I'm still leaning towards thinking he is mafia.
Nutella can be very difficult to read as she does often follow the waves of the thread but her response to things so far hasn't made me feel confident about her being town.
This day 1 is hard there are fair points on all three. Voting tony as I feel worst about him and his efforts thus far.
Why does Tony's supposed lack of an answer to that question warrant a final critical vote in the Day 1 poll? Does it mean anything that Tony had indeed answered the question?Dom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:17 amNo.Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:04 pm Some Tony things:Why does this post exist? Michelle also called him out for this but my beef is slightly different. It's not that he's doing math, it's that he's putting these words into the thread. They're isolated, not really attached to or inviting in any further discussion. He just plopped some cursory mechanical chatter into the thread and moved on.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:19 am I haven’t played a game with a setup like this is a while lemme recap for myself. Three bad lynches allowed, find scum within six days.
His progression on Dom also looks strange. Is strange bad? Let's see.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:48 pm I don't want to lynch Dom right now. That makes me paranoid.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:55 pm nutella, you've said that you're good at reading Dom in the past I think. What should I think here?I do not know what the initial stance on Dom is supposed to reflect. Do Tony and Dom have a particular history together where the former tends to suspect the latter? He then calls on nutella to offer her allegedly expert read, indicating that Tony doesn't have a particular history with Dom, but then beckons anyone else to disagree with her. In all of this, Tony has done nothing resembling independent work to read Dom. He has observed Dom's presence in the game and asked a specific player to comment on it, then he has sought dissenting opinions all across Australia.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:07 pmOkay thanks for your opinion.nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:10 pmI think he's town. He's doing his typical thing of gathered reactions to lots of little things.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:55 pm nutella, you've said that you're good at reading Dom in the past I think. What should I think here?
anyone want to dissent?
What is your read on Dom, Tony? Does something stand out about him one way or the other? Why are you so interested in him here?
And I don't like that I didn't see a response to this.
[VOTE: Tony] aubergine
Spicy
There is nothing here. Epi gave us nothing to work with Day 1. I could go either way with that. I could see evil epi skating by on the knowledge that people aren't going to lynch him Day 1, knowing that the small size of this game means that he (and his team) don't need to keep us fooled for that long. This allows him to just be a stick in the mud for a few days while the civilians struggle to get off the ground. Or he's just busy and is moving his vote around whimsically as he sees fit.
No. I name them because in order for the Tony lynch to have made sense as a mafia team orchestration, that would have to mean that there were no civilian bandgwagons available prior to him. Therefore nutella and jack were both mafia wagons. I do not believe that to be the case.Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:57 pmAnd so I don't know why you only name those two players in the scum orchestrated Lynch, shouldn't your name be on that list as well?
I believe this.
Michelle's progression on Tony loses me a bit. She deems my play "townish" while contrasting it to Tony's "wolfy" play, but I don't know what qualifies either of our actions to earn those labels. In particular, I'm not sure why it's suspicious for Tony to have an eye on the math involved in this game. It makes sense to want to know how many mislynches we have available to us. (Preemptive note: I called Tony out for the apparent emptiness of his mechanics talk, not for the mechanics talk itself).Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:04 amYes about me.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:37 pm I’m pretty sure this is solid reasoning. I think on probability people who take lines like Michelle are more likely scum and people who take lines like Sloonei are more likely town.
Disagree? Y/N
I thought is wolfy that you're doing the math day 1 because this may be a thing to pose in town carring.
Also I disagree with any playstyle comparison.
Sloonei's post was townish by itself and the mention of him being probably asleep at Eod and honestly pointing that his vote will last, I think this is villagery.
So you take my post and his post, make a comparison and find me scum? This is scumtactic from you and I notice a bad progression of you on me.
I could say the exact same about you, Michelle.Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:27 amSloonei lower than DF in these reads comes as odd for me, Tony never said nothing about DF as town iirc while he had a post comparing me and Sloonei.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:17 pm There is so little to pry on here.
Rainbowish from memory:
Me
Jack
Dom
DF
Sloonei
Sabie
LC
G-Man
——————————
Epi
Michelle
Nutella
And Quin is missing
Lot of reads coming out of nowhere, and his agenda for me is visible.
We now know that Tony was not nefariously angling to shade Michelle, and I don't think this was an accurate read in the moment either. Tony is being lynched here, with the counterwagons of Jack and nutella. He's hard defending Jack and advocating for a nutella lynch. There isn't much reason for an evil Tony to start devoting energy to shading and antagonizing a civilian Michelle in this moment. He would be trying to convince her to change her vote.Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:36 amyour agenda is to shade me. I think your attitude towards Sloonei is pockety .TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:37 am I didn’t know Quin was in the game until after I posted the list. And I really appreciate how you think my agenda is visible because of the positioning of two people. What’s my agenda? Save my teammate DF? Lynch Sloonei? Well if my agenda is lynch Sloonei then why did I say he was townier than you? That would have been a mistake.
CrikeyQuin wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:54 ammate its hard to roleplay and make choc a bloc posts at the same time
i reckon i'd call the coppers on nutella for starting the DF beef against jazza, that whole thing was a pissup.
[VOTE: nutella] aubergine
I’ve read or skimmed most of the thread and my responses have been such that I came out feeling this way about things. I’ve expressed nothing firm or concrete here. Why do you object?nutella wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:30 amHow are these real readsSloonei wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:43 am I’m unconvinced by the things Tony has said in response to me, but I don’t want the discussion to end there.
Long Con and G-man are the other two players I’ve felt directly suspicious of for more than a brief moment this game. I’ve held off on G-man because he hasn’t played in forever and he’s good company. And some of my pings could just be derived from his eagerness to get back in the action.
Long Con has felt a little flat. I may or may not be able to substatntiate that.
I am sympathetic to players who ask questions before offering views.DFaraday wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:28 amI just went through her posts, and noticed a lot of questions and very little in the way of offering her own views. I've never played with her that I can recall; is this normal behaviour for her?
(I spelt "behaviour" the Australian way for the game. Also "spelt.")
Why do you reckon that, esteemed Australian Quin? Who do you reckon ain’t such good blokes?
Long Con’s ISO is a few jokes and some posts shoveling coal in the engine of the Jackwagon, like this one here. If he’s bad, he entered with a forced casual air and then pounced on an obvious and easy bandwagon. But as I type this out I have to ask if I really think LC would kick the game off like that.Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:55 am DF plays that way enough of the time that pinging him to play is fake because you already know from experience that he'll play how he plays pings or not. Filler content not real content. Flush Out Fillers, as they say. Done. "Answered" Wolf motivation: early seemingly useful but no really content.
People who think syntax doesn’t mean anything are wrong.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:28 pmI think scum tends to take an explosive response because it can generate more discussion and town will tend to take a more genuine line. “This post isn’t solving” is a cop out argument in general, but here I think it functions as a sign that Sloonei doesn’t have an agenda. I also liked Sloonei’s phrasing but I tend not to delve into syntax cause 1) people think it’s stupid and 2) it makes future syntax arguments more WIFOMy.
[mention]MacDougall[/mention] any chance you could toss these up in that there OP?
Why does this post exist? Michelle also called him out for this but my beef is slightly different. It's not that he's doing math, it's that he's putting these words into the thread. They're isolated, not really attached to or inviting in any further discussion. He just plopped some cursory mechanical chatter into the thread and moved on.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:19 am I haven’t played a game with a setup like this is a while lemme recap for myself. Three bad lynches allowed, find scum within six days.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:48 pm I don't want to lynch Dom right now. That makes me paranoid.
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:55 pm nutella, you've said that you're good at reading Dom in the past I think. What should I think here?
I do not know what the initial stance on Dom is supposed to reflect. Do Tony and Dom have a particular history together where the former tends to suspect the latter? He then calls on nutella to offer her allegedly expert read, indicating that Tony doesn't have a particular history with Dom, but then beckons anyone else to disagree with her. In all of this, Tony has done nothing resembling independent work to read Dom. He has observed Dom's presence in the game and asked a specific player to comment on it, then he has sought dissenting opinions all across Australia.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:07 pmOkay thanks for your opinion.nutella wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:10 pmI think he's town. He's doing his typical thing of gathered reactions to lots of little things.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:55 pm nutella, you've said that you're good at reading Dom in the past I think. What should I think here?
anyone want to dissent?
What are your thoughts on G-man and Tony?sabie12 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:53 pm So right now I'm feeling suspicious of both Jack and nutella. Jack specifically commented on everyone in response to g man's post except me. He would have actually had to delete my name from the original post because now it's not there. Jack has played multiple games with me so why leave me out? Accidentally forgot me? Maybe... So far whenever I've played a game with jack and he's been mafia he makes it a point not to accuse me and ends up lulling me into a false sense of security just to come out and win in the end. Last time I realized just one lynch too late that it had happened again. He said hi to me in the beginning of the game so he knows I'm here. Also, I'm not sure how to take the whole making a big deal about DFs playstyle in the beginning.
I know nutella can be waffley a lot of times but some of what she's said kind of pinged me such as saying she didn't even know that Jack already votes and thinking tony would have tmi this early in the game. Some of her posts are just contradicting statements.
Prodding DF the way he did probably isn’t a thing scum jack does. Overreacting to initial concerns over it definitely is not a thing scum jack does. He’s a player that people treat with skepticism fairly often because his style of play doesn’t change much between factions. I sense that his frustration today stems from being tired of being misread, especially this aggressively so early on in a game.
I clarified my position so as to not be mistaken for commenting on that which I have made no comment on.Dom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:22 pmSo you commented on something you have no comment on?
I should clarify that I thought jack was talking about you because that's where his vote was. I have no comment on whether or not I would agree with that assessment of you.
Because we're 12 hours into Day 1 and nothing else is happening. Why are you concerned?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:51 pmAnd wolf Jack doesn’t need to do it either.Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:48 pmAnd I appreciate that. But it doesn't necessitate town jack in this game right now.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:37 pmSeriously. When is the last time DF wasn’t just “resolved” by the town without anyone even scumreading him?Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:34 pmI don’t see why not.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:04 pmNo you.Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:58 pmYou're mafia.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:28 pm @DFaraday
You have a history of missing day phases and ending games with under 10 posts. I understand that irl stuff happens but It has become a pattern.
I would absolutely love to play a mafia game with you but that’s going to require you to play a mafia game with me as well.
Please post.
If I was mafia, I wouldn’t start the game with a push on a guy who tends to get himself lynched all on his own.
[VOTE: Jackuvfarts] aubergine
I’m trying to for once have a read on him before it gets to that point. That starts with him posting.
Glad we agree it’s nai at worst. So why are you voting me, mate?
And I appreciate that. But it doesn't necessitate town jack in this game right now.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:37 pmSeriously. When is the last time DF wasn’t just “resolved” by the town without anyone even scumreading him?Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:34 pmI don’t see why not.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:04 pmNo you.Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:58 pmYou're mafia.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:28 pm @DFaraday
You have a history of missing day phases and ending games with under 10 posts. I understand that irl stuff happens but It has become a pattern.
I would absolutely love to play a mafia game with you but that’s going to require you to play a mafia game with me as well.
Please post.
If I was mafia, I wouldn’t start the game with a push on a guy who tends to get himself lynched all on his own.
[VOTE: Jackuvfarts] aubergine
I’m trying to for once have a read on him before it gets to that point. That starts with him posting.