The Syndicate

I do not feel like Quin and Jack are the same alignment.

Fredwood wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:INH was self-aligned, and his interests were purely his own. It wasn't the best lynch, it wasn't the worst lynch. Most importantly, in the eyes of the Hive team, he was not one of theirs. In that vein it can be treated as a mislynch, particularly during the day prior to INH revealing himself as an LMS independent role. The votes that preceded that claim:

Golden
speedchuck
JOH
Fredwood

I would appreciate if the four of you would at least briefly state or restate what motivated your INH votes when you placed them.

Dizzy and Quin voted for INH after his claim. It is more difficult to ascertain ulterior motives there as INH provided an obvious motive. I will still each of you though: what made you feel that the vote was still worth making?
He was one of 3 targets I was comfortable lynching. I still would not have voted for Jack at the end of the phase, and of my suspects he was the only one that was reasonably being pressured.

I wasn't 100 percent sure he was Mafia, but I felt the chances he was town was much slimmer. If he came on sooner and explained his theory, I don't know if I change my vote because his logic didn't make sense. He loses the game if Dys get's lynched, so there was still plenty of things that were red-flagging me about his claim that I don't know if I would have given him the leeway to get away with it.

Who were your other two suspects?

I believe you have the most experience playong with JOH of any of us, so I should probably pay attention to your opposition to his lynch. Why do you see him as a bad lynch candidate?

Quin wrote:I am sorry for being curt. I'm just upset that 3J is going to reclaim his title for most posts given his newfound motivation today.

I was worried I was about to surpass the two of you.

I have apparently voted to travel West. I do not recall doing this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sloonei wrote:How are we all feeling about JOH today?
Please tell me your own read, based on whatever content you have read, before others answer your prod.

Nothing has changed since I left the thread yesterday.

RIP nutella, thanks for playing a hell of a game.
I've only skimmed the EoD events from yesterday so I'm not too sure what happened, but the results could have heen worse. I'll get caught up and say things tomorrow.

How are we all feeling about JOH today? Did he convince everyone not to lynch him, or did INH make himself too lynchable to miss?

Can a brother get a tally?

Speedchuck is intriguing me. I see nothing but an exuberant townie when I look at him, but then he's a leading suspect for a number of other people. I am wondering if there's something I am overlooking.

And the more I think about it, the less I like some of JOH's waffly posts on the marmot. How do others feel about their interactons?

Awesome, Dizzy is here! Do yo thang, Dizzy.

Dyslexicon wrote:Omg. Reading Quin vs Sloonei and then INH vs Sloonei:

This isn't meant to be rude. And I don't know if I'm right or wrong. But I definitely have a different take on this. I think it's very much possible thatn Quin is town. Unsure on INH. (Will continue reading).

@Quin - I don't know your alignment, and I don't know if I'm right about thinking Sloonei is town, but I do in this instance. Anyway. You mentioned something to the effect of "If you did not say you were opposed to wagon X, you were not opposed to wagon X", and I think this is a very flawed argument, although I can see how it would make sense to you. It's just, people are different, and therefore game play is different - not saying you don't know this cause I'm sure you do. But in this instance I think you're missing that for some players a lot of the "process" is actually internal, and not everything shows "on paper". I think this can be said for Sloonei in this instance, and to me his process doesn't look that weird. For me personally, a lot of my actual (attempts at) conclusions is internal and I need to make an effort to articulate them, which I don't always do. You had a problem with my flipping read on JJJ, and I think it stems (at least in parts) for this reason, and I think the same thing is happening with Sloonei. I had been constantly debating JJJ's alignment in my head for a myriad of reasons, actually to the point that I was tired with it and decided it would be best for me to just "conclude" that he was most likely town and I needed to just hope that to be true for the sake of my sanity and efficiency. My long-winded point is that some people extravert their thinking and conclusion process more naturally than others. I hope this made some kind of sense. And for clarification (if you're town), I'm not saying any way of going about things is wrong, I'm just trying to express something that I think is creating a misunderstanding that isn't productive. I can't guarantee to be right, but I believe I am enough to put this out there.

For context, Quin and I have known each other for a fairly long time both in and out of mafia context. I got the impression that his skepticism of me was based more on Sloonei the Person than Sloonei the Mafia Player. His suspicion against me was incorrect, but I ultimately felt that it was coming from an honest place. I think he's mostly come around to understanding my point of view by now. I can't speak to how he has acted toward you in this game, though.

Fredwood, Elo, and juliets are supposed to be null yellow, but I was trying to avoid the plain yellow shade because I've heard it can be difficult to read on certain backgrounds.

A rainbow list. There's still a lot of uncertainty for me and I don't consider myself fully up to speed. I've paid virtually no attention to Soneji and Fredwood, and the Strawhenge read is partially motivated by my desire for him to be town.

nutella
JaggedJimmyJay
speedchuck
Dyslexicon

Quin
Strawhenge
Golden
Soneji
Insertnamehere

Fredwood
Elohcin
juliets

Long Con
Scotty
Jackofhearts

I don't want today to stagnate and I think there's still plenty of work to be done, even if we do end up lynching JoH today. Chances are high that at least one townie won't be here tomorrow, so we should all be working as much as we can in the time that we have to get as much information into the thread as possible. Keep talking about suspects. I won't be around, but I would prefer to have lots of pages to catch up on later.

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I have no idea where these similes come from. Have you been leaving pomegranates in the sun? It's winter and you're in Canada.
Nah it's basically summer here. Or so I'm told. It was 0 degrees here last week-

I'm looking at these fucking ten foot snow drifts and the locals are like, "yea, I've lived here for 30 years and don't even know what the ground looks like anymore."

Why live here? I don't get it.
I am currently trying to move there.
vote: sloonei

Sorry bud

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I have no idea where these similes come from. Have you been leaving pomegranates in the sun? It's winter and you're in Canada.
Nah it's basically summer here. Or so I'm told. It was 0 degrees here last week-

I'm looking at these fucking ten foot snow drifts and the locals are like, "yea, I've lived here for 30 years and don't even know what the ground looks like anymore."

Why live here? I don't get it.

I am currently trying to move there.

The last time I was in Canada I bought a blue pomegranate flavored Gatorade because the French packaging labeled it as "Bleu Grenade" and I thought that was funny.

I have no idea where these similes come from. Have you been leaving pomegranates in the sun? It's winter and you're in Canada.

Scotty has felt authentic today. I'm not prepared to call him a town read, but I think I'm starting to feel better about voting Jackofhearts than Scotty today. That is partly a deferral to others. I trust nutella, and she suspects him. She also has a Town ID on Jay, so I trust his analysis which points to JoH as bad. And I am skeptical of his Marmot interactions, as I just detailed above. That's enough for me, at least right now.

vote Jackofhearts

I'll be leaving for work in about an hour, but it's Monday night and I work in a restaurant so it might be slow enough for me to check in occasionally. If I see something I like I might change that vote.

I just remembered this is a hammer game. I doubt we're approaching a hammer at the moment, but let's all be careful not to end the day early. Use the full 48 hours we're given please.

JoH RE: Scotty:
I just quoted these two posts in the above ISO. I am dumb:

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:And for my next trick, I will ignore Fred's last post.

Currently reading Silver, Jtrips as slight town, Scotty and Sorsha as slight scum. Might change those reads when I get further. Like Silver's growling at Quin. Dislike Scotty's fake read and redirect thereof. Dislike Sorsha's two almost random map nominees and defense thereof. Like Jimmy pointing it out.

Wilgy and Marmot are being amusing. Null read so far.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Jackofhearts2005 wrote:And for my next trick, I will ignore Fred's last post.

Currently reading Silver, Jtrips as slight town, Scotty and Sorsha as slight scum. Might change those reads when I get further. Like Silver's growling at Quin. Dislike Scotty's fake read and redirect thereof. Dislike Sorsha's two almost random map nominees and defense thereof. Like Jimmy pointing it out.

Wilgy and Marmot are being amusing. Null read so far.
Caught up to this point. Still feel this way about all these players.

Feeling positive towards Fred but that may just be because I want him to play more better (i.e. more scumhunting, less waiting around for night results) and I know he's capable of playing more better cause he's a bright fellow (falling into the middle of the "clutch realmser" tier who can solve games once all the clues are out but rarely gets out there and creates the clues during the day) and I see him trying to play more better.

But does that make him a townie? "Probably" says other people. "We'll see" says me. Same for Silver but with the added fearless townie bonus.

I don't like Nachos's "okay, I've found scum" and "these folks are obviously town" posts. Like, bro, you had me fooled last game but I don't get the impression you're THAT good, know what I mean? Has Sorsha/Sonjei's problem of me only ever playing with scum Nacho (and 10 years ago over the top bulldog townie Nacho) so I can't answer "but would he do this anyway as a townie?"

Loving everything from JJJ and Nutella

Half rainbow:
GREEN
Jack
JTrips
Nut
Silver
No avatar guy. Speedchuck?
LIGHT GREEN
Quin
Fred
Golden
YELLOW
Marmot
LC
Sig
ORANGE
Sorsha
Nacho
Sonjei
That guy who looks like Scotty but isn't Scotty. Who was like "I lied about my town read"
RED
Dizzy

Scotty is a very early suspect. But then this later rainbow comes along:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Left off Wigly

Jack
Quin
Golden (deserves iso)
Nut
Silver
Marmot
JTrips (deserves iso)
Scotty
Fred
Sig
*basically everyone else who hasn't posted much* aka Eloh and DFaraday?
Dizzy
Sonjei
Straw
Sorsha
LC (deserves iso)
Nacho
Wigly
Speedchuck (deserves iso)

Scotty is green. I believe this is related to fake slip reactions.

In this big post he references Scotty as one of Nacho's leading suspects prior to his nightkill, which I suppose lays some framework for a suspicion. But then in this post he provides some analysis that favors Scotty. After this the only mention he makes to Scotty is an indirect reference to Speedchuck's ISO of Scotty, then the vote. I don't see a ton of basis for Jackofhearts to suspect Scotty. This isn't condemning, but it's not terribly inspiring either.

I recognize the irony of me being critical of a player for voting against their stated suspicions in this game.

Hybrid JoH/Marmot interactive read and general ISO:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:And for my next trick, I will ignore Fred's last post.

Currently reading Silver, Jtrips as slight town, Scotty and Sorsha as slight scum. Might change those reads when I get further. Like Silver's growling at Quin. Dislike Scotty's fake read and redirect thereof. Dislike Sorsha's two almost random map nominees and defense thereof. Like Jimmy pointing it out.

Wilgy and Marmot are being amusing. Null read so far.

This post has a little bit of player salad. I am not sure how to view that on early Day 1. Generating reads and content is good. But spreading oneself thin like this is something that I've seen as a valid cause for suspicion in the past.
This was the first result when I Ctrl +F'd marmot/metalmarsh. He expresses a null read on marmot because he's "amusing". Hm. Acknowledgment without substance.

Spoiler: show

Sort of kind of fleshed out thoughts on Fred, but not really. This is essentially a paragraph of JoH shrugging at Fredwood. I'm not a fan of that. Then he gives a colorblind rainbow list with Marmot still in the nullish area.

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
speedchuck wrote:Dizzy's slip options:

A. The slip was an accident. Dizzy covered it up by finding an example from a previous game.

B. The slip was on purpose to win town points.

C. The slip was on purpose, to cause an uproar on D1 and provide actual discussion, as a sacrificial catalyst. AKA For Teh LOLs

In option A, the following would have to be true:

-Dizzy happened to slip, as well as slip twice more in the same post: a. calling for lurker lynches early in the day, and b. claiming reads but not giving them. This is BLATANT slipping, so we'd have to assume Dizzy has no idea how to mafia.

-Dizzy happened to remember an insignificant post among all posts, one that didn't garner much attention. He did this while under pressure.

-Coincidentally, the mafia number in this game would have to be the same as the fakeslip from the other game (which, by the way, didn't reveal the number of mafia either)

-Coincidentally, the slip in this game would have to be the same as the type of fakeslip in the other game, but yet real

Possible? I guess. Not very likely at all. Imagine:
"Oh crap, I messed up. Luckily, I remember a time when I made an almost identical post under similar circumstances, but completely on purpose. WHAT A STROKE OF LUCK!"
This sounds ridiculous.

Option B is viable, though a stupid strategy, as we see how well that went.

Option C allows for the fakeslip to be a plan, without giving Dizzy too much credit for thinking everything out.

Explain how Option B is not a viable scum move.

Current players with heavy suspicion of Dizzy: Silver, Marmot, LC
Current players with heavy suspicion of Dizzy that is actually related to slipgate that has not caused others to suspect them: Silver

Current players defending Dizzy: Speedchuck, JJJ
Current players calling it null or giving a slight town read on Dizzy: Quin, Nut, JoH, Golden, Fred, Straw

I call that a net win if Dizzy is scum, especially considering the general trust placed in JJJ, Nut, Quin and Golden.

Additionally, there was never a danger that Dizzy would be lynched for actual slip as he had the exact same move from another game in his back pocket to link to.

Explain how Option C is a good town move.

The only gain the town has gotten from all of this is maaaaybe a lead on LC for going at it when he should have backed off ("It's the dishonesty of it that gets me.") and maaaaaaybe a lead on Marmot for not reacting enough to it. Both of those are fairly large stretches and certainly not definitive without a flip.

Do you think Marmot or LC are scum?

This post is more about Dizzy and Speedchuck but Metalmarsh is referenced as a "maaaaaaybe" suspect after a "fairly large stretch". I don't object to the commentary about the fake slip here. It looks more like Devil's Advocate than true suspicion. There could be an argument that he's framing Dizzy in a negative light but, again, that's just the nature of playing Devil's Advocate. But then his next post appears much more like genuine criticism of Dizzy. I am less fond about that, but I don't think it's totally bogus.

His next post after that is a revised rainbow where marmot is suddenly green. A few posts ago he was teetering on the brink of maybe just maybe being a suspect, but now something has changed and he's shot from null-or-worse to green.

Spoiler: show

He alludes to some stuff about how players reacted to the fake slip, but I don't recall there being anything in Metalmarsh's post history that looked good in regards to that, and I'm pretty sure JoH just acknowledged that his behavior was a little fishy. This looks ungood.

Marmot and Dizzy are not compatible wolf teammates. I agree.

Spoiler: show

Nothing Marmot-related here, but it's interesting. He likes Golden's pro-Dizzy analysis, but only uses it to affirm his town read on Golden and later keeps Dizzy yellow, near the bottom of his rainbow (marmot is still green and I'm still not sure why).
This post also spurred this curious chain of questions from JoH about sig. They seem kind of directionless and flat. He would end up voting for sig. I'm uninspired.

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Golden wrote:I have to have a vote that can work as my final vote done in the next eight hours, because there's no guarantee I'll be able to get back (and an absolute guarantee I won't be able to be current with the thread) for at least the rest of the phase after that point.

So, to this end, while I do a bit more of a detailed reads list, I'd really like as many people as possible to give me gth reads or, preferably, a short precis of why they think each of the following people is a good or not good choice for a vote. As things stand right now, these are the people I have any level of active suspicion on.

Jay
Eloh
Marmot
inh

(No, I'm not looking to go with 'most popular vote', but I am already having trouble keeping up with everything due to my limited time, and this will help me make sure I have in the open points in favour and against these choices).

Also @Jay - I saw you said we don't know wilgy is dead, but it looks like he is dead from OP. In any event, because of the way polling works during the day, sprit I think it's worth clarifying whether or not someone who appears dead can actually be alive, and voteable. I'd assume not.

Jay I've touched on a lot.

I've played one game with Eloh where she didn't participate a ton early and she turned out to be scum. Is this scum Eloh I'm seeing or just Eloh? I don't really like the pile on, here, cause it likely won't go anywhere. Assuming she doesn't give us anything to go on, she's a better vig kill than lynch, imo, but others who know her meta better may have a stronger opinion on that.

Marmot looked bad to me early, then benefited from going after Dizzy a bit while I was semi tunneling (and semi devils advocating) on Dizzy. In hindsight, it doesn't look great. Like in Unfortunate Events, I'm seeing some chaos and messing but not a ton of hunting. Scum?

INH. Probably not w/w with LC, which is in his favor since LC looks bad to me. His rigidity on the train direction thing did him no favors. Speed and Silver sure make him look bad (he makes himself look bad). Need to reread his back and forth with LC. I'll get back to you on this one.

Wasn't I supposed to ISO somebody? Oh yeah. Nacho. Maybe later. LC and INH probably higher priorities. Been through Nacho's posts twice already and he's dead. Wish I knew why he changed his tune on Sonjei.

Here he does a double reversal on Metalmarsh. First he claims he "looked bad early", a claim which I've seen no evidence is true to JoH's beliefs, then he explains that he's reversed his prior opinion that Marmot looked good for going after Dizzy's slip. As always, I do not suspect a player who changes their mind, but I do if I don't think it's authentic. I have doubts about this.

Spoiler: show

This is an EoD 2 post that's a little all over the place. A vote for Scotty (I should try to trace that suspicion through his posts next. Could be an opportunistic vote), shade thrown at Speedchuck, and a confession that he "can't read marmot" as well as Eloh, but that for some reason he sees them as potential baddie teammates. My head is spinning.

I can see justification for a Jackofhearts vote.

unvote JaggedJimmyJay

I still go back to my initial moments in the game when I asked Jay for some general analysis of a number of things. Everything he looked at pointed toward Jackofhearts being scum. He's done nothing overwhelmingly good or bad since I got here, but the very first look I had at him was as a big red target in some meaty JJJ analysis, so I've had that little bit of doubt about him for a while. I've not talked about him because I have no developed read of my own to share. I should probably quickly ISO him. Work is in a couple of hours and I'll be there through the deadline.

nutella wrote:Scotty: ~2-2.5. I think you're civ.

And jjj is clean bc I copped him. It was a one shot ability and I'm already kicking myself for wasting it. Keep those items coming so I can continue to be useful.

I was 50/50 on Jay and my vote was mostly a reaction test. I have no reason not to trust you, so I do not doubt the claim. When did you receive this ability and when did you use the shot?

Scotty wrote:Actually, screw it.

I have an exercise for everyone. I actually want as many people's opinions as possible.

On a scale of 1-6, 1 being civ and 6 being pondscum, where would you rank me? In one sentence, what brings you to that read in particular?

4. You've said yourself that we shouldn't read your frustration as alignment-indicative, and to me that has been the strongest point in your favor.

Scotty wrote:You're mixing up the order. My normal meta is to vote low posters because I suck at identifying baddies early.
I voted Dys at that point because it looked like an obvious slip.

Two separate thoughts. If Dys hadn't made that slip, I wouldn't even be talking about this right now. Idve peobanly voted for Soneji or whomever looked to be laying low on Day 1 (I don't even remember)

I suppose I just don't understand how or why the comment about voting no-shows was relevant given that you seemed highly confident that Dyslexicon was bad.

And also thank you for that explanation, Fredwood.

Fredwood wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Fredwood wrote:But I wasn't misdirected, Golden was. If Eloh is a Controlled Misdirector I guess that's a possibility, but you're essentially suggesting another Busdrive, with both explanations. There's no indication on whether or not there's a MD.

With the Busdriver being in play, there's no reason to assume a Controlled Misdirect, particularly a town one, and if someone randomized Golden's result they wouldn't show up targeting me.

My guess is that Eloh has a persistent ability not a one shot. Spending the one shot doesn't make sense on a day 1 unknown player. As for a CMD...shrug...I guess only Eloh can answer that.
This is all terminology that is foreign on the Syndicate, I'm afraid.

Well a controlled Misdirect is exactly that. Eloh would have targeted Golden to specifically target me. Where a standard misdirect would have just targeted Golden, and then his results would have been randomized.

You were suggesting that someone switched JJJ and me as targets for...which has been established by Spirit to be a Busdrive, so you inference that Eloh is a misdirector because they switched me and JJJ indicates that you think Eloh is a Busdrive, but doubling up on powers seems unlikely.

My point is really, I didn't view it as a Misdirect and that Eloh probably has a persistent power.

I can see there being two bus drivers if they are opposite alignments.

Scotty wrote:
Spoiler: show
Sloonei wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Assignment #2 is complete.

Remember when I said this?:
Sloonei wrote:A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior.
Well...

I'll reiterate an initial part of my beef with Scotty because I don't know if he's given it a proper response yet:
Scotty wrote:I see I missed a lot in being gone from the thread. I'm real busy y'all, Donny participation is highly dragging on all fronts going forward.

I'm caught up, and realize that this is why I prefer to vote no-shows on day 1. I'm not sure who's bad. I thought Nutella was playing the fences early on with her first few posts, but I like her recent posts. The golden thing seems like a pretty good place to continue down I guess.

Not liking Wilgy's entrance. Any time he plays the WIFOM card my eyebrow twitches. Both he and MM.

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.
If Scotty earnestly believes that Dyslexicon slipped on Day 1, why is he also lamenting the problem that he can never tell who's bad on Day 1? If that was a slip, isn't it plain as day that Dyslexicon is bad?
What do you have to say to this, Scotty? I'm interested in hearing what your thought process was when you made this post, if that's something your memory even has access to. You've dismissed it, I think, but not in a way that actually addresses it, unless I'm misremembering things.
Yeah I've explained it but that's ok, I'll explain again. I'm grown into a tree since making this post.

If you never met your parents and a man walks into your life and proclaims he is your long lost dad, what would your initial reaction be? Then if your "dad" says "Eh no I'm not I just wanted to see your reaction!" Would what you do?

In this case, I usually target low/no posters because I'm shit at reading people without a vote. and instead was presented with a pretty obvious looking slip, so of course I would vote that way. You understand my post now?
I do not. I understand that you thought Dyslexicon's slip was a true slip. Is this correct?
Yes.

And you also expressed a desire to vote for a low-poster because you couldn't identify any baddies?

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I want to shift the focus of all the discussion onto Scotty. Everyone talk about Scotty. I command it.
What were you saying about not leading discussion yesterday?
What does yesterday have to do with today?
You're leading discussion today. It's like the beaches of Normandy all over again.

Sloonei wrote:
Scotty wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I want to shift the focus of all the discussion onto Scotty. Everyone talk about Scotty. I command it.
I have no reason to town read him. I don't know that a blank interactive analysis necessarily means he's evil since I do see those often with civilians when I take on the same workload.

But there's nothing in his posts that I have seen that say to me "oh, there's civilian Scotty". I'd lynch him. He actually just gave me shit for my tracker claim not being accountable when I believe he soft claimed exactly something very early in the game. I don't know what it was. Did that ever become a hard claim? I haven't read everything.
That's fair, except...did you read anything I've posted RE: speedchuck today? What would make me look civ in your eyes?

Guys I don't wanna bring discussion all about me again today. I can. But that Sloonei has declared martial law on the thread in my name makes me pissed off more than anything.

Is it because I'm not following you blindly?
is this not what we're supposed to do when we suspect players? I'm not telling everyone they have to suspect you. I'm telling then I want to talk about you, because maybe you're town and someone can convince me and others of it.
I do not mean to frustrate you.
Nah dude you're demanding they talk about me. There's a difference.

I'm fully embracing my role as discussion leader today. I didn't do that yesterday. I do not get why this is a point of contention. And yeah, I am insisting we talk about you. I suspect you. What am I supposed to do?

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I might be willing to vote for Jay.
Speak, my child.
I'm tired and on my phone, but that big post he made responding to my interactive analysis of him felt off, particularly the section nutella highlighted. He spent a good chunk of time explaining why he wouldn't do something (express a null read on a teammate) instead of simply explaining why he had a null read. He was focused on explaining why he's not scum instead of sharing his thought process.
coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool beaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaans

I'll come give some updated thoughts later. Pretty sure I've given him plenty of attention in my posts if you want to look. I do think the Nacho kill is a point in his favour, but he doesn't dictate the kill so it's only a little one.

The nacho kill is definitely one of the main reasons I've given him a pass to this point.

In defense of speedchuck, he is in a game with a bunh of strangers. He can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think he's ever played with any of us before. With that in mind, I have no problem with his uncertainty ("flip-flop") yesterday or at any other point in this game. He mentioned this directly in his Scotty suspicion. He provided his own investigative work and came out with a legitimate case, but backed off it when I said things about Scotty's meta. So then when I later came back with my own suspicion of Scotty, it restored his confidence in his own read.

We can apply the same line of thinking to his read on metalmarsh, or anyone else in the game.

unvote Scotty

Vote JaggedJimmyJay

Fredwood wrote:But I wasn't misdirected, Golden was. If Eloh is a Controlled Misdirector I guess that's a possibility, but you're essentially suggesting another Busdrive, with both explanations. There's no indication on whether or not there's a MD.

With the Busdriver being in play, there's no reason to assume a Controlled Misdirect, particularly a town one, and if someone randomized Golden's result they wouldn't show up targeting me.

My guess is that Eloh has a persistent ability not a one shot. Spending the one shot doesn't make sense on a day 1 unknown player. As for a CMD...shrug...I guess only Eloh can answer that.

This is all terminology that is foreign on the Syndicate, I'm afraid.

That's a phone post if ever I've seen one.

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I just started scrolling through Scotty's Day 3 posts. He said this initially:
Scotty wrote:Them MM voters lookin real good right now by the by

Well done on catching him y'all
And then went on a tirade against the two people who hammered on metalmarsh.
Correct.

And actually, speedchuck was one of my top town reads going into the day. It wasn't until I started dissecting the EoD THAT I WASNT EVEN AROUND FOR that I picked up on a few inconsistencies.

I feel very alone and isolated in this game. This isn't a pity post, I don't do that shit. But I'm also clawing my way from a ditch while you guys throw rocks at me from above.

Would it help you if I just told you what my role is? Probably wouldn't believe me. It sure wouldn't help me reveal because I haven't been able to activate it. I chose not to activate it night 1 because I didn't think I'd be able to utilie it. I couldn't activate it last night.

I do not wish for you to reveal your role unless you want to reveal your role.

And I apologize if you feel discouraged. I can't help that I find you suspicious, and I am going to bring that up as much as I can. It does not mean that my mind is made up. My mind is never made up.
That said, I've been similarly frustrated at the suspicion I have received. I felt like we just caught a huge break wit yesterday's lynch and then immediatwlg started moving backwards today.

I do not agree with your speedchuck case and I know that I am town. Who else do you suspect?

Scotty does point something else out to me that is disconcerting about Jay: he agreed to vote for Scotty without any hesitation or suggestion of serious thought. I know he's busy right now, but that's highly uncharacteristic.

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Assignment #2 is complete.

Remember when I said this?:
Sloonei wrote:A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior.
Well...

I'll reiterate an initial part of my beef with Scotty because I don't know if he's given it a proper response yet:
Scotty wrote:I see I missed a lot in being gone from the thread. I'm real busy y'all, Donny participation is highly dragging on all fronts going forward.

I'm caught up, and realize that this is why I prefer to vote no-shows on day 1. I'm not sure who's bad. I thought Nutella was playing the fences early on with her first few posts, but I like her recent posts. The golden thing seems like a pretty good place to continue down I guess.

Not liking Wilgy's entrance. Any time he plays the WIFOM card my eyebrow twitches. Both he and MM.

I see the slip as what it was: a slip. Going to continue to defend me voting Dys. Could be difference in culture, but I don't like the bait tactics and choose to believe it were really that easy to bait a response out of someone with an "obvious" fakeslip, it's just as easy to scumslip.
If Scotty earnestly believes that Dyslexicon slipped on Day 1, why is he also lamenting the problem that he can never tell who's bad on Day 1? If that was a slip, isn't it plain as day that Dyslexicon is bad?
What do you have to say to this, Scotty? I'm interested in hearing what your thought process was when you made this post, if that's something your memory even has access to. You've dismissed it, I think, but not in a way that actually addresses it, unless I'm misremembering things.
Yeah I've explained it but that's ok, I'll explain again. I'm grown into a tree since making this post.

If you never met your parents and a man walks into your life and proclaims he is your long lost dad, what would your initial reaction be? Then if your "dad" says "Eh no I'm not I just wanted to see your reaction!" Would what you do?

In this case, I usually target low/no posters because I'm shit at reading people without a vote. and instead was presented with a pretty obvious looking slip, so of course I would vote that way. You understand my post now?

I do not. I understand that you thought Dyslexicon's slip was a true slip. Is this correct?

Scotty wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I want to shift the focus of all the discussion onto Scotty. Everyone talk about Scotty. I command it.
I have no reason to town read him. I don't know that a blank interactive analysis necessarily means he's evil since I do see those often with civilians when I take on the same workload.

But there's nothing in his posts that I have seen that say to me "oh, there's civilian Scotty". I'd lynch him. He actually just gave me shit for my tracker claim not being accountable when I believe he soft claimed exactly something very early in the game. I don't know what it was. Did that ever become a hard claim? I haven't read everything.
That's fair, except...did you read anything I've posted RE: speedchuck today? What would make me look civ in your eyes?

Guys I don't wanna bring discussion all about me again today. I can. But that Sloonei has declared martial law on the thread in my name makes me pissed off more than anything.

Is it because I'm not following you blindly?

is this not what we're supposed to do when we suspect players? I'm not telling everyone they have to suspect you. I'm telling then I want to talk about you, because maybe you're town and someone can convince me and others of it.
I do not mean to frustrate you.

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I want to shift the focus of all the discussion onto Scotty. Everyone talk about Scotty. I command it.
What were you saying about not leading discussion yesterday?

What does yesterday have to do with today?

Scotty wrote:
Sloonei wrote:The following is a complete compilation of all interactions between Metalmarsh and Scotty in the game of Phenom Mafia:
Spoiler: show
So um.
unvote jackofhearts, I think? Am I still voting for him?

vote Scotty
Oh fuck no not this shit again

I've shared a bunch of reasons why I suspect you and you've responded to exactly none of them.

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:I might be willing to vote for Jay.
Speak, my child.

I'm tired and on my phone, but that big post he made responding to my interactive analysis of him felt off, particularly the section nutella highlighted. He spent a good chunk of time explaining why he wouldn't do something (express a null read on a teammate) instead of simply explaining why he had a null read. He was focused on explaining why he's not scum instead of sharing his thought process.

Fredwood wrote:
Sloonei wrote:This seems to suggest Elohcin is a misdirector. I do not expect the Hive to have multiple misdirecting roles on their team.
Why would Eloh targeting me mean they are a Misdirector?

Because Golden's report has her targeting you, but Golden did not intend to target you. It is reasonable to assume that somebody switched you with Golden's intended target (Jay), and since we have evidence that Elohcin targeted you, we can guess that she's the misdirector.

I know on HC Realms you guys have different names for different types of redirecting roles, but when I say "misdirector" I just mean any role that has the ability to change another player's target. A townie redirecting actions off of Jay makes sense because he's always a likely kill target.

I might be willing to vote for Jay.

This seems to suggest Elohcin is a misdirector. I do not expect the Hive to have multiple misdirecting roles on their team.

Golden wrote:Got a response from sprit. He made a mistake, eloh and I targeted Fred. Still not marmot though.

For the sake of clarity, could you reiterate everything you've told us about your night action so far?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:
Sloonei wrote:What reason is there to read speedchuck as bad? He's in my top tier of town reads at this point.
Fishing, mostly. Scotty made a fair accusatory post against him but since I don't trust Scotty.

I think the amount of culture clash I'm having with him makes my brain want him to be scum. I don't even remember Scotty's arguement that well.

I glanced over some of Scotty's points and agreed with none of them, but I am conditioned to read Scotty as bad right now.

What reason is there to read speedchuck as bad? He's in my top tier of town reads at this point.

nutella wrote:
Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:One thing I've picked up on in this ambitious exercise: Dyslexicon is the towniest player in the game based solely on Metalmarsh's ISO.
I disagree. I am the ultimate townie. No townie has ever towned as town as I am towning in this game.

So far I've been getting all the love Hey, at least I voted for the confirmed baddie

You're the towniest player in the game based solely on the posts in this thread.

which direction did we go yesterday? i was too stoked on the marmot lynch to check.

Or simply express your concerns, if you're worried about leading. I assure you that I am town.

this was @ quin. hello nutella, tell me what you think of Scotty.

Quin wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Quin wrote:I feel alright about Scotty. I put him in my GTH civ list because of my suspicion of Sloonei.

I have nothing else to say about him.
Do you still suspect me?
Don't know. I want to ask you some more stuff but I don't want to lead you on.

Ask things!

Quin wrote:I feel alright about Scotty. I put him in my GTH civ list because of my suspicion of Sloonei.

I have nothing else to say about him.

Do you still suspect me?

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